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Old December 31 2013, 03:29 PM   #191
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Old December 31 2013, 03:45 PM   #192
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Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
In fact Devyani's husband is a US national - if anybody had to be arrested, why not arrest him? He was getting nanny services for pittance- I have no problem with him being arrested but USA has no right to arrest our diplomat.
I would have liked to agree fully on that. But our diplomat lady got her on the visa and she filled the employers form. And US would have been too happy to put her husabnd in jail, but he is not guilty, he is not employer. An average american cannot afford maid. Only our IAS kings and queens can afford that in US.
Don't worry, we will compensate her husband handsomely with our Aam aadmi's money. we have spent $250,000 on her bail. probably much more than that on assembling a whole team of experts which includes US lawyers to defend her and save her at any cost.
A wine expert has been paid millions as a consultant to our food ministry, agriculture ministry. But then why bother about this. Its the privilege of our IAS/diplomat lobby to loot millions of this country by appointing any idiot as our expert and siphoning off our money.
This is too much about diplomat and diplomat being nation's pride. When you get fired upon by sri lankan navy, pakistani forces and chinese troops regularly holidaying on our lands claiming theirs. For years, chinese embassy sitting in India was giving stapled visa, our foreign office didn't treat this as national pride or matter of national public, we were solving it through diplomacy.
Let US put her in prison and then try to get her out of prison by diplomacy.
Sorry, your pride about nation is completely misplaced. This is not about nation's pride at all. This is about power drunk babus and their habitual abuse of system.
And what treatment like diplomat you are talking about, US has very showed that she didn't enjoy any diplomatic immunity. Luckily US is no fool that every TDH will enjoy immunity. she was a clerk/consular officer and she din't enjoy the immunity and she would get punished.

Btw, Do you also believe the senior fraud claims that the maid was a US spy also ?
Do you think Khemka's stand on her is wrong ?
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Old December 31 2013, 03:45 PM   #193
 
 
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Originally Posted by nabishek View Post
I share your sentiments too..but there is a right way to do everything. Please dont mistake me as justifying the under-paying of the maid. I have not, I have already clarified that I am putting forth a moral argument. If we go by the interviews given by retired diplomats, it seems to be a common practice to have some understanding to work around the local law between governments..Diplomats/Consular officials and their worker are considered as governed by Indian jurisdiction at the embassy..The disturbing factor is they openly say there are several other such overstepping and these are courtesies..Incase there has been any issues, it has always been handled discreetly with talks through diplomatic channels. The issue I am highlighting here is, The American authorities didnt seem it right to involve the Indian government at any stage, They have not followed protocol, They presumed that this diplomat lady is going to use her influence and power to get away. All the letters/request for information written to them has been ignored. They have already judged and taken side with the victim to initiate proceedings..If they can do it on a diplomat, I cant fathom what kind of protection an ordinary Indian citizen would have abroad, If he/she had to face a false allegation/implication. The credibility of our government is completely lost..it surely saddens me..This is not an isolated incident..The image of our government is so dented because of the corruption and lethargic attitude towards the citizen, that every country is taking us for granted..we surely have to salvage this situation. we see Indian fishermen being killed frequently in tamilnadu by srilanka, In saudi they are being deported, we see a UK court saying Indian judiciary will take eternity so we will have the case here..This will get only ugly. I am feeling sad because we have to put up behaviour of wrong people because the position they hold is a respectable one. But, Instead of targetting the individual - The instituition or the office is derided and insulted. They are not given the privilege that they ought to be, Which in my opinion shouldnt be allowed in the interest of the country at any cost. We are seeing a change in the mindset in our people. We are letting go the "chaltha hai" attitude and we surely will have capable people sitting in those positions..at that point of time, todays action cannot be allowed to remove importance of a position which can deny them authority to lead/take decisions in future. I hope you people get the difference.
LArgely agree with this

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Originally Posted by shakishaki View Post
it is sad to see indians being taken for granted all over the world. and it is even more sad to see so many indians more patriotic to U.S than their home country. the issue here is not if the diplomat is guilty or not but the way they treat us when it comes to india and indians.
This is the main problem and it is time to change India and Indians and IFS attitude. It is time to behave like a grown up and lose our inferiority complex

Quote:
Originally Posted by rakesh311 View Post
Within official circles, this damn story of Devyani & her maid was cooking up since september & even before that but why was our Salman Khurshid sleeping over it? Why didn't he quietly recall her from US as is normally done in such cases? or was he waiting for election results in December to show Congress party's new-found decisiveness & no-nonsense attitude? Anyhow, this incident was handled very badly by the US too.

BTW, Those people who quote US immigration rulebooks & domestic workers lawbooks on IREF to justify an Indian diplomat's arrest should know that this practice of paying salary as per poor Indian affordability standards was going on since last 65 years & this was not the first case. For those who don't know what is 10$ an hr, even our president doesn't get that much in India, so technically, he also cannot employ a RICH AMERICAN MAID!

For USA's law abidance history, kindly go through any book on how CIA operates outside US & how much democratic, freedom loving laws does it follow!
Khurshid should definitely lose his job for this debacle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vaibav123 View Post
India has to present a polished face to the world and earn respect of the world.
Had the diplomat been a Chinese person,US would have dealt with them differently.Arresting and treating her roughly(may be as per US laws was not in order.They could have declared persona non grata and sent her back to India.
In our country she would not have suffered any legal consequences for underpaying or overworking a domestic help,if the charges are true as per newspaper reports.
Name of the person comes out in unfavorable light in Adarsh scam also as per reports in newspapers.
All in all, our overall international image has fallen by this incident.
True - but the publicity can help us improve our diplomatic corps and our foreign services - currently we have an unblemished track record of 60 years of utter failure in diplomacy

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Originally Posted by CFA_aspirant View Post
USA attacks outsiders'

India attacks insiders and worships outsiders

Indians deserve it abroad
This needs to change, starting now


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Originally Posted by amarakbar View Post
VIP culture in India has to go. I am pinning my hopes on AAP govt in Delhi to take the lead.

It was surprising to see NSUI coming in support of beuerocract and not in support of Indian maid. Why is Indian media also silent on her plight.

These high officials really exploit lower rung staff/contract workers as domestic help.
VIP culture has to go.

But diplomats in their posting- and Judges on home turf - all over the world - are VIPs.

That is the nature of the game
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Old December 31 2013, 03:50 PM   #194
 
 
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This is too much about diplomat and diplomat being nation's pride. When you get fired upon by sri lankan navy, pakistani forces and chinese troops regularly holidaying on our lands claiming theirs.

We should return fire

For years, chinese embassy sitting in India was giving stapled visa, our foreign office didn't treat this as national pride or matter of national public, we were solving it through diplomacy.

We should have given stapled visa to all Chinese. We should never have recognosed Tibet as part of China - stupidity

Let US put her in prison and then try to get her out of prison by diplomacy.

Put her in Indian prison for sheer incompetence - by all means

Venky,
Btw, Do you also believe the senior fraud claims that the maid was a matahari also.
Maid was a previliged individual who's family had always enjoyed employment by diplomats in better paid jobs than normal, jumped at the chance to go to USA - and then wanted to stay on and gave whatever statement were needed for the job.

I doubt if CIA would need a mole at such a junior level - more likely they bribe the Foreign minister himself.

But all these poor quality situations of the past need to be changed - starting with NOW
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Old December 31 2013, 04:03 PM   #195
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Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
Let Devyani and her father be put in Indian prison - I would be happy.

Americans have no business in the matter. They are not our masters.
you cannot do the crime in someone's else land thinking that you are queen of a billion of Indians, so no one dare touch me.
If you are so powerful try to enforce the law on the americans living in India, not try to save our fraud queen.
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Old December 31 2013, 04:17 PM   #196
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Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
Maid was a previliged individual who's family had always enjoyed employment by diplomats in better paid jobs than normal, jumped at the chance to go to USA - and then wanted to stay on and gave whatever statement were needed for the job.
Why blame only maid and her family, Sadly that's a trend of desperation in India for many, starting from chief of our spy agency "RAW"to all the guys in IFS. Leave US, the dream job of all IFS guys, even countries like liechtenstein with a population of just 36k is overflowing with 10-11 IFS officers and hardly any indian in sight in this country. I seriously think they all are agents of the corporate and political lobby busy in dealing in black money in safe havens like liechtenstein and switzerland. Ask any IAS and you will know what kind of dirty politics they had to get in to get postings into these countries. And these cheap guys go to any level to have these plum postings. Of course, these cheapness finally reflects in their behavior in other countries.
Even this lady actually got someone dismissed from the service to get her Germany posting.


I doubt if CIA would need a mole at such a junior level - more likely they bribe the Foreign minister himself.

But all these poor quality situations of the past need to be changed - starting with NOW
Well said, but some enlightened members here do believe in the spy conspiracy theory.
inline....
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Old December 31 2013, 04:41 PM   #197
 
 
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Originally Posted by ashish18 View Post
I would have liked to agree fully on that. But our diplomat lady got her on the visa and she filled the employers form. And US would have been too happy to put her husabnd in jail, but he is not guilty, he is not employer. An average american cannot afford maid. Only our IAS kings and queens can afford that in US.
Don't worry, we will compensate her husband handsomely with our Aam aadmi's money. we have spent $250,000 on her bail. probably much more than that on assembling a whole team of experts which includes US lawyers to defend her and save her at any cost.
A wine expert has been paid millions as a consultant to our food ministry, agriculture ministry. But then why bother about this. Its the privilege of our IAS/diplomat lobby to loot millions of this country by appointing any idiot as our expert and siphoning off our money.
This is too much about diplomat and diplomat being nation's pride. When you get fired upon by sri lankan navy, pakistani forces and chinese troops regularly holidaying on our lands claiming theirs. For years, chinese embassy sitting in India was giving stapled visa, our foreign office didn't treat this as national pride or matter of national public, we were solving it through diplomacy.
Let US put her in prison and then try to get her out of prison by diplomacy.
Sorry, your pride about nation is completely misplaced. This is not about nation's pride at all. This is about power drunk babus and their habitual abuse of system.
And what treatment like diplomat you are talking about, US has very showed that she didn't enjoy any diplomatic immunity. Luckily US is no fool that every TDH will enjoy immunity. she was a clerk/consular officer and she din't enjoy the immunity and she would get punished.

Btw, Do you also believe the senior fraud claims that the maid was a US spy also ?
Do you think Khemka's stand on her is wrong ?
Her husband is no ordinary American

2014 Sydney International Wine Competition

He is rich enough to afford a maid if he wanted. But that is not the issue.

YOu say US is not a fool - but if it is found that US made an error and in Sept Devyani acquired immunity through UN - then what? USA is a fool after all?

Devyani is not a clerk - she is a diplomat from IFS. Every Diplomat of every country is a VIP abroad - except in their own country where they are ordinary citizens.

Whatever punishment Devyani deserves should be meted out by India and not by USA. She deserved more punishment for Adarsh - and doesnt deserve punishment for the maid - for that Indian govt. deserves punishment.

As Khemka said - did Devyani sign the Visa form? If yes, she is on dicey ground.

If she only signed a contract for employment - and did not make payment as required under the contract - she can be sued by Richards in a civil court. That is all. And the jurisdiction for the Civil court will be India
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Old December 31 2013, 04:52 PM   #198
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Default Indian diplomat arrested in US for alleged visa fraud, handcuffed in public

Venky- do you even have a clue of the topics you are filling pages on? It's just blah blah without any connection to logic, rational or legality.

You want to go after Bharara's relatives for a crime done by Devyani. Why? Who is the accused here?

You have tears rolling out for the crooked diplomat and her dad pulling strings in govt at cost of national interest but nothing to say about the rights of the maid

You want the GOI to check salaries of US embassy indian staff who are paid indian salary because they are employed in US territory. But you argue that Indian diplomats shud be paid US salary though they work in Indian embassy? Is that not indian territory? Why having it both ways?

Read my comment again. 28 workers in SG will face trial based in evidence against them for rioting. But for 51 others being deported- there is no evidence to put them to trial- acc to the police commissioner Ng Ching himself. Who is standing for them? Certainly not folks like you

Even GOI and IFS knows she is in the wrong- that's why they quietly paid off 250k of taxpayers money for saving a private fault using public money. And all their arguments are to hide behind the (invalid) immunity and not to fight the case legally...

Your comments come from a confused person who seems to be trying to having his cake while eating it at the same time.

Sorry mate- it Doesn't work like that..
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Old December 31 2013, 05:10 PM   #199
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Originally Posted by Venkytalks View Post
Her husband is no ordinary American

2014 Sydney International Wine Competition
He is rich enough to afford a maid if he wanted. But that is not the issue.
Actually this is very very ordinary, All that he has is a P.d. from provence, And there are very high chances that his salary is less than 4500 paid to her wife. I think you are not aware of the condition of non-STEM Ph.ds in USA. I knew a guy with much much larger winery than his and they could not afford maid in anyway. just occasional temporary workers for farms. All his so called qualification of Regarded as one of the most important figures in the emerging Indian wine industry" is as big a lie as you write when trying to be CEO of a company. Yes, he got some Indian govt projects, but that was purely due to his wife and father-in-law. Btw, What is Indian Grape board ? Another of those boards where you ahev 5 IAS's sitting with 5 wine comaony owners enjoying the govt grant. These are not some real industry bodies, these are places to earn some govt money for IAS and their sons and daughters.
And It looks very clear that all his qualifications were due to projects given to him by Indian wine industry. Its a plain fraud.


YOu say US is not a fool - but if it is found that US made an error and in Sept Devyani acquired immunity through UN - then what? USA is a fool after all?
Error can happen, but missing a technical point where even India was not aware of and has found out only now, doesn't make them fool.
Devyani is not a clerk - she is a diplomat from IFS. Every Diplomat of every country is a VIP abroad - except in their own country where they are ordinary citizens.
Please there are no VIP's outside India, Consular officers from from africa n nations are not treated as VIP here.
And she doesn't enjoy immunity, please read here.
She is just a clerk - not a VIP, She might be a VIP in eyes of billions of Indians, but she is just a clerk in eyes of every other country. If wishes were horses all the IFS guys would have wanted themselves accorded the status of Ambassdor in US, but then she is not. Read her immunity status.
Legal Aspects of Diplomatic Immunity and Privileges

Whatever punishment Devyani deserves should be meted out by India and not by USA. She deserved more punishment for Adarsh - and doesnt deserve punishment for the maid - for that Indian govt. deserves punishment.
She doesn't deserve any punishment in India, As you said she is an IFS, so she is anyway master of billion of people, so don't even think of trying her in india. But in eyes of US, she had done a Visa fraud. And yes please read the charges against hr by DOJ, She has been charged for Visa fraud - almost equal to human trafficking and thats beyond the immunity of queen of masses. She will be tried and if she doesnt go to jail, India may as well forget her $250,000 of bail amount and milllions being spent to rescue her.
Good thing is, In current system, even Obama cannot pardon her, she can only be pardoned in court, how much indians cry for their queen lady

As Khemka said - did Devyani sign the Visa form? If yes, she is on dicey ground.

If she only signed a contract for employment - and did not make payment as required under the contract - she can be sued by Richards in a civil court. That is all. And the jurisdiction for the Civil court will be India
visa form jurisdiction is not in India, she has been charged of Visa fraud.
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Old December 31 2013, 05:12 PM   #200
 
 
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Originally Posted by Magadh_Pride View Post
Venky- do you even have a clue of the topics you are filling pages on? It's just blah blah without any connection to logic, rational or legality.

You want to go after Bharara's relatives for a crime done by Devyani. Why? Who is the accused here?

Selective prosecution of an Indian diplomat

You have tears rolling out for the crooked diplomat and her dad pulling strings in govt at cost of national interest but nothing to say about the rights of the maid

"Indian Diplomat" is enough. Is she is a crook, India should punish

You want the GOI to check salaries of US embassy indian staff who are paid indian salary because they are employed in US territory.

Yes. If they are paid less - let govt collect the difference as a tax

But you argue that Indian diplomats shud be paid US salary though they work in Indian embassy?

Yes - a diplomat should be paid what the job deserves. Then only will a diplomat work properly

Is that not indian territory? Why having it both ways?

An Indian diplomat has to hold his own against well paid other country diplomat - he wont do his work well if he is a beggar in comparison. I am not a socialist - I am a capitalist. For good work you have to pay well

Read my comment again. 28 workers in SG will face trial based in evidence against them for rioting. But for 51 others being deported- there is no evidence to put them to trial- acc to the police commissioner Ng Ching himself. Who is standing for them? Certainly not folks like you

I want them to find gainful employment within India. If our country fails its citizens - only then they will be willing to work as wage slaves in Singapore or elsewhere.

India should have deported 51 Singaporeans - or expelled one diplomat (but without media being involved).

Just simply - that is how diplomacy works


Even GOI and IFS knows she is in the wrong-

Entire IFS is in the wrong - this was not peculiar to only Devyani - they have all been doing these things to get around US visa requirements - it was an understanding with US embassy and they ditched us - they deserve tit for tat

that's why they quietly paid off 250k of taxpayers money for saving a private fault using public money. And all their arguments are to hide behind the (invalid) immunity and not to fight the case legally...

Immunity is probably applicable here by a fortuitous chance. But even otherwise, there NO CASE FOR PUBLIC ARREST, HANDCUFF, SEARCH OR BEING PUT IN LOCKUP (SORRY CAPS LOCK)

Your comments come from a confused person who seems to be trying to having his cake while eating it at the same time.

Or is it you who is confused?

Sorry mate- it Doesn't work like that..
Exactly - diplomatic game doesnt work like that - there are well established rules for it.

PErsonalities and individuals do not enter into the diplomatic game.

Read up political science

An interesting link on the issue

http://www.thehindu.com/multimedia/a...__1692362a.pdf

The text of the US complaint
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