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Old August 25 2012, 09:00 PM   #4581
 
 
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Default Lets not mix it up

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Originally Posted by sheeshu View Post
Aurora and Wisconsin shootings were also by disgruntled employees?? psychos, hate crimes, radicalization of politics anyone ??

The fact is nutjobs would find any reason to kill as long as they have easily accessible weapons....sardarjis were killed because corzine wasnt indicted ? Give me a break.

anyway I agree to it upto certain extent but why just stop at corporate criminalization ?? Is it not failure of capitalism itself at some level? Maximization of profits is going to lead to social injustice and inequality until all human beings are created equal in every sense of the word.

Sheeshu,

The words were mine. The mixing up of words to reconstruct your own conclusions were yours!

I was merely stating that History seems to be rhyming (if not exactly repeating). The tensions for common man due to the deliberate actions of the powers (whether its Corzine - and that was just the most recent example - or Reddy Brothers) to loot beyond all norms and limits, including endangering the entire economic and financial system is what I was talking about as the one that has brought us to the point where there may seem to be only one way out. Come out shooting at anyone who you think is responsible, since rule of law seems to be completely broken.

Many of our dacoits crossed the rubicon from being perfectly docile rule-abiding citizens to ruthless killers because they had no way out since the cops and admin machinery was on the side of the perpetrators.

That was what I was talking about. And a whole lot of people are now waking up to this and also talking about it. To understand it well, one must go over to America, lose job, home, savings and live in tent-cities (after having led a fairly rich lifestyle last 20-30 years) and have no recourse to ever getting back to what you once were. Perhaps immersing yourself in such a situation will reveal to what level you can go!

Its sheer desperation ... and anything is possible under those circumstances.

cheers

 
Old August 27 2012, 12:21 PM   #4582
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This is completely off-topic so (as the request goes) ... please excuse!

For a long time I've kept this opinion of mine quiet. But I think its time to air it, despite most people thinking I must be an extremist!

.... and the sea of words ....
IMO you were looking wiser (though a bit) before posting this
This post reminds me of the 2009 time when you could scare people easily .
 
Old August 27 2012, 12:25 PM   #4583
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it will never happen. its not feasible now.
yup, agree.

But this shows their desperation, and, loss of faith in US dollars (their own currency).

Besides, it may also lead to re-counting/auditing of Gold stored in US valuts, for which there are already quite of few conspiracy theories.
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Old August 27 2012, 02:34 PM   #4584
 
 
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Originally Posted by compuwalah View Post
IMO you were looking wiser (though a bit) before posting this
This post reminds me of the 2009 time when you could scare people easily .

"Being" wiser is my goal, not "looking" wiser!

Civil strife has happened for far less reason than whats being done gradually to common Americans. While we are not aware, a large and increasing number of aam Americans are now very aware of whats really happening with Govt, FED, Corporate America and the Banksters.

Unlike 2009, this is far more serious as I believe that the situation has gone beyond control in the US and perhaps in Europe and China (Japan was gone a long time ago).

The only unknown is when the break in confidence happens and then it will be quickly downhill with no time to react. And quickly, with respect to the large amount of correction to be done, automatically means vigorously (and perhaps violently!)

This time it may be different even here in India and we may gradually realise that we are in for the longer haul slow growing India. By itself it may not be all that badm because it will re-focus all of us into issues that are more important than money and possessing the latest gadget, like family and friends.

We all may have to lower our billionaire and crore-pati ambitions and live life a little slower, make things last a little longer and perhaps get more out of life than we are getting now!!!

If we prepare for it now (when there is time) by cutting down on debt making things last longer and saving for troublesome times, we may be able to enjoy those times (in case they come again soon).

On the flip side, when bad times come, they also bring in great opportunity for the prepared - not for the ones who are neck-deep in EMIs.

Now is not all that scary, is it?

cheers
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Old August 27 2012, 07:06 PM   #4585
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Old August 27 2012, 07:13 PM   #4586
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Old August 28 2012, 01:37 PM   #4587
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wiseman View Post
"Being" wiser is my goal, not "looking" wiser!

Civil strife has happened for far less reason than whats being done gradually to common Americans. While we are not aware, a large and increasing number of aam Americans are now very aware of whats really happening with Govt, FED, Corporate America and the Banksters.

Unlike 2009, this is far more serious as I believe that the situation has gone beyond control in the US and perhaps in Europe and China (Japan was gone a long time ago).

The only unknown is when the break in confidence happens and then it will be quickly downhill with no time to react. And quickly, with respect to the large amount of correction to be done, automatically means vigorously (and perhaps violently!)

This time it may be different even here in India and we may gradually realise that we are in for the longer haul slow growing India. By itself it may not be all that badm because it will re-focus all of us into issues that are more important than money and possessing the latest gadget, like family and friends.

We all may have to lower our billionaire and crore-pati ambitions and live life a little slower, make things last a little longer and perhaps get more out of life than we are getting now!!!

If we prepare for it now (when there is time) by cutting down on debt making things last longer and saving for troublesome times, we may be able to enjoy those times (in case they come again soon).

On the flip side, when bad times come, they also bring in great opportunity for the prepared - not for the ones who are neck-deep in EMIs.

Now is not all that scary, is it?

cheers
Hi Wisey, while I disagree with your reasons and explanations and your extreme projection, much of what you are saying is already coming true and will continue to do so.

London riots, Occupu wall street, protests in India and China and many protests in Europe are symptomatic of the malaise.

But these are symptoms of a disease that is different from what you are saying.

The disease is not crony capitalism. The disease is inadequate productivity of big sections of their population.

American poor have insufficient skills. Their jobs can be done better by many other countries and so their dollar wages have to adjust down to the balance level - i.e. wages in USA go down and wages in developing countries move up to reach an equilibrium.

So the most productive in USA and their capitalists will become insanely rich while the poor will lose their jobs in droves unless they can reskill and re-acquire their competitiveness (which earlier they had).

So no jobs for the poor in USA and Europe. Mix guns and a short temper (not everybody is as tolerant as the Indian poor) - situation is explosive. Problem is - nobody can solve this problem - problem cannot be solved by monetary or fiscal measures - problem can only be solved by working hard and reskilling.

Which the Americans look like they have failed to do in the required quantity. Riots after Hurricane Katrina and London riots will be nothing compared to when the blacks come out in CHicago and Detroit and Brooklyn - there will be arson and looting and rape in massive proportions in these when the situation worsens by another 25-30% - inevitable within 2 years.
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Old August 28 2012, 03:07 PM   #4588
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Productivity is a highly subjective term.

Banking and IT are supposed to be just support functions to the real economy ; but at present time they are dominating the real economy.
So an average employee in banking is considered much more productive than en engineer in manufacturing or a farmer in the field. Even pay in other service industries is lesser than these two.

There can be no absolute standard to measure productivity and it is a relative term.

The actual problem is the concentration of wealth and power; money is like blood to the body of economy; so if this gets concentrated it may lead to stroke.

The present capitalism is quite similar to the regime in soviet as decision making powers and wealth is concentrated in very few hands.

The present closely knit group of top corporate + top politicians + bureaucrats is similar to the polit bureau of the soviet.

Only saving grace is that in a democracy; there are possibility of alternatives emerging.
But the big corporate have become so strong that any new entrant is very quickly blinded by their dominant ideology or is bought off.

So what we are left with is politics of desperation; all the protests that we are witnessing is a reflection of that.
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Old August 28 2012, 05:15 PM   #4589
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manu View Post
Productivity is a highly subjective term.

Banking and IT are supposed to be just support functions to the real economy ; but at present time they are dominating the real economy.
So an average employee in banking is considered much more productive than en engineer in manufacturing or a farmer in the field. Even pay in other service industries is lesser than these two.

There can be no absolute standard to measure productivity and it is a relative term.

The actual problem is the concentration of wealth and power; money is like blood to the body of economy; so if this gets concentrated it may lead to stroke.

The present capitalism is quite similar to the regime in soviet as decision making powers and wealth is concentrated in very few hands.

The present closely knit group of top corporate + top politicians + bureaucrats is similar to the polit bureau of the soviet.

Only saving grace is that in a democracy; there are possibility of alternatives emerging.
But the big corporate have become so strong that any new entrant is very quickly blinded by their dominant ideology or is bought off.

So what we are left with is politics of desperation; all the protests that we are witnessing is a reflection of that.
I agree that the situation in EU and US is similar to USSR in the past. USSR was very unproductive - and its output could not match Western output. The system had to collapse.

But my friend - jobs come from capital - which is in the hands of capitalists.

Try to put handcuffs on capital - and it will run away to other countries. The moment the Bush Tax Cuts expire - try putting taxation on the capitalists and they will leave the country.

Making the situation worse.

And if you dont tax the capitalists - they will keep getting richer - and the average US worker will keep getting poorer.

Basically the situation is not redeemable - this is a lost decade. Thats it. And it WILL cause internal problems.

Look at how gold taxes have encouraged smuggling in India recently - you just cannot stop the flow of money - like water, it will find its own level through legal and illegal channels.

The reason people in US and Europe are becoming poor is because they werent worth the salary they were getting. Productivity has hit a ceiling of 40-50K per annum. Every time one person moves from 50 to 60,000, another moves from 40 to 30,000. There is no net gain in average productivity - except that the rich get richer and poor get poorer.

This phenomenon is going to dominate this entire century.
 
Old August 29 2012, 10:55 AM   #4590
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"clueless" is a word that repeatedly pops into my head !
 
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