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Property Price Trends in Chennai

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  • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

    Lookout this is a conversation between a Hindi speaker & a Tamil speaker:

    Question by Mr. K. Agarwal:

    I am really perturbed to see so many articles written in your magazine against Hindi as India's official language. I pity people having such a weird thinking. They should realize that more languages a person knows broader his outlook becomes. I do not know why people from other southern states have no problem with Hindi except people from Tamilnadu. No doubt Tamil Nadu politicians are responsible for inciting this hatred.

    In India it must be made compulsory for people to learn at least three languages.

    1. Local language of the place you are living
    2. Hindi (national language) [Editor's Note: Indian constitution makes Hindi the official language, and not the national language.]
    3. English (international language)

    Many of my Tamil friends feel bad that they cannot speak Hindi. They say that it was difficult to learn Hindi in Tamil. They regret it because if they do not know Hindi or English, life becomes difficult whenever they travel outside of Tamil Nadu. In India only a few people know English whereas Hindi is spoken by more than 50%. I have seen people speaking five or six languages fluently. I do not think anybody would become less of a Tamilian by learning Hindi. Being proud of ones own heritage does not stop you from learning other languages. The earlier we realize this the better it is.

    Hope you will take in good sense and do not publish article from such fanatic people in your magazine.

    Response (by Thanjai Nalankilli)

    1) K. Agarwal: "More languages a person knows, broader his outlook becomes".

    Thanjai Nalankilli: True, but it need not have to be Hindi. We will decide what languages we want to learn. Some people may be happy with two languages--Tamil and English. Some may want to learn Malay because they may want to work in Malaysia. Some may want to learn Arabic because they want to work in Arab countries. Some may want to learn Hindi because they want to work in Hindi states. Some may want to learn Bengali or French or Chinese for the pure pleasure of it. It is up to the individual. We are not opposed to anyone learning Hindi voluntarily but we do not want it imposed on us directly or indirectly.

    May I suggest that you preach what you preach us to fellow Hindi speakers? Why don't your fellow Hindi speakers learn more languages? We are not asking them to learn five or six languages (which you seem to think is a good idea), not even three languages that you want non-Hindi peoples to learn compulsorily, just one more language other than Hindi. Let Hindi speakers learn English, then we can all communicate in English. Where is the need for Hindi? What you want is for everyone to learn Hindi (as a compulsory third language) and talk to you in your language while Hindi speakers will not even learn a second language English. It is not acceptable to the people of Tamil Nadu.

    2) K. Agarwal: "I do not know why people from other southern states have no problem with Hindi except people from Tamilnadu."

    Thanjai Nalankilli: I am not so sure if people from other southern states have accepted Hindi. If, in fact, they have, more power to you. It makes implementation of Hindi as India's official language easy. Let Tamil Nadu become an independent country and you can do all your business in Hindi throughout India without interference from Tamil Nadu.

    3) K. Agarwal: " No doubt Tamil Nadu politicians are responsible for inciting this hatred."

    Thanjai Nalankilli: Let me make it clear that we do not hate Hindi but we hate making Hindi the official language of India. You can bury your head in the sand and hold on to your belief that it is the Tamil politicians who oppose Hindi imposition or started the opposition. President of the first organization in Tamilnadu against Hindi imposition (1938), the "Anti-Hindi Command", was Somasundara Bharathiyar. He was not a politician contesting any election or planning to contest any election. The very first Anti-Hindi Conference held at Kodampakkam, Chennai (Madras) in 1938 was presided by the great Saivaite scholar Maraimalai Adikalar (Marai Malai Adigalar); he was not a politician either. Here are some numbers you may want to know.

    Number of people participating in the very first Anti-Hindi March from Thiruchirapalli (Tiruchi, Trichi) to Chennai (Madras) in 1938 was over four times as those who participated in Mahatma Gandhi's Dhandi March. Dhandi march is depicted as a great march in Indian history. Surely it is a great march but the Anti-Hindi march attracted four times as many people. Such large numbers of people do not participate in marches unless there is popular discontent with Hindi imposition. By the way, I do not hear anyone saying that politicians like Nehru were responsible for inciting hatred against British rule because they wanted to become Prime Minister. Then why do some Hindi people say that politicians like Annadurai and Karunanidhi incited anti-Hindi imposition agitations to gain political power?

    I will just give one more statistic. If you add all the people who participated in demonstrations against British rule in Tamil Nadu during all those years of British rule, they would be less than those who demonstrated against Hindi imposition on January 25, 1965.Please read Reference 1, if you wish to know more about anti-Hindi imposition agitations in Tamilnadu.


    4) K. Agarwal: "Many of my Tamil friends feel bad that they cannot speak Hindi."

    Thanjai Nalankilli: If those friends are living in Hindi states for some time and have not yet learned Hindi, they should. If they are living in Tamil Nadu and feel bad that they do not know Hindi, these people have low self-esteem. I have nothing else to say about them. By the way, do you or any of your Hindi friends living in Hindi states feel bad that you do not know Tamil or Telugu or Bengali?


    5) K. Agarwal: "I do not think anybody would become less of a Tamilian by learning Hindi."

    Thanjai Nalankilli: I do not think that you and other Hindi speakers would become any less of a 'Hindian' by learning Tamil. Why don't you all learn Tamil compulsory in school and communicate with us in Tamil. What is good for the goose is good for the gander too! [Let me make it perfectly clear. Tamil people do not want to impose Tamil on anybody. I made that statement just to make a point how you and other Hindi speakers would feel if Tamil was imposed on you.]


    6) K. Agarwal: "In India only a few people know English whereas Hindi is spoken by more than 50%."

    Thanjai Nalankilli: I do not agree with the 50% figure. It is about 30% if you consider Mythili as Hindi too. Irrespective of whether it is 30% or 50%, may I ask that these Hindi speakers take your advice to heart and learn at least a second language, English? Then Hindis and Tamils can communicate in English instead of a third language (Hindi) thrust into Tamil throats through Indian government Hindi imposition. (I am referring to your advice that people should learn more languages because "more languages a person knows broader his outlook becomes". Also your statement, "Being proud of ones own heritage does not stop you from learning other languages." So learn English and speak to us in English.)
    Last edited by Economist; May 28 2015, 04:59 PM.

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    • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

      Originally posted by Lookout View Post
      Tamil is an important cultural marker of a large group of people, but it is after all one state. When 80% of the country understands one language, it will make more practical sense for that 20% to adapt. And they are adapting from what I see around me, but still not enough to make non-Southerners feel at home.


      Why should others have to bend over backwards and learn a completely new language to make non- Southeners "feel at home"?

      This "I have to feel at home" attitude is what creating this problems.

      Tamilnadu has heaps of Telugu and Malayalee people should Tamils also need to learn their language to make them "feel at home"

      Next thing one would say Chennai people should learn Korean & Japanese as most expat from those 2 countries are highest in Chennai.

      @Lookout - no one is stopping any one from learning Hindi if they want, we just don't like the expectation from Hindi state guys that everyone they come across should know Hindi.

      If a Tamilian has a need or wish to learn a language (including Hindi) he should learn it.

      But you can't expect Cleaner Aaya, Auto Kumar ,60 year old Landlord Mami to learn and speak to you in Hindi. If they have a desperate need they will learn. It is their choice.

      Please don't force the ones who does not have the need or wish just because you can feel "at home"

      BTW - Tamilnadu has been one of top performing state & Chennai has been one of Top performing city in India since Indipendence - All this with over 98% of the population not knowing Hindi.

      I don't have tell you about the performance of Hindi belt in the feild of Industrial development or human development.

      Note: My mother tongue is Telugu not Tamil.
      Last edited by Economist; May 28 2015, 05:08 PM.

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      • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

        I disagree with a post that assumes auto, mechanics, plumbers etc to be more cunning and 'scammy' in Chennai. I think most businessmen (small and big!) everywhere are out to rip you off and wait for you to smarten up. I am a Sikh and I have been quoted the most atrocious fares by Sikh drivers auto/taxi drivers at Delhi Railway station. They even try and speak in proper Punjabi to lure a guy seemingly not from Delhi.

        I do think the people here are more soft spoken though (auto guys are an exception!). They may have the same motives, schemes as everyone else but just that outward rudeness you often encounter on streets of Delhi/Gurgaon is not present.

        To me the biggest positive of Chennai is women safety and the general peaceful nature of the society.

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        • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

          Originally posted by Economist View Post
          Why should others have to bend over backwards and learn a completely new language to make non- Southeners "feel at home"?

          This "I have to feel at home" attitude is what creating this problems.

          Tamilnadu has heaps of Telugu and Malayalee people should Tamils also need to learn their language to make them "feel at home"

          Next thing one would say Chennai people should learn Korean & Japanese as most expat from those 2 countries are highest in Chennai.

          @Lookout - no one is stopping any one from learning Hindi if they want, we just don't like the expectation from Hindi state guys that everyone they come across should know Hindi.

          If a Tamilian has a need or wish to learn a language (including Hindi) he should learn it.

          But you can't expect Cleaner Aaya, Auto Kumar ,60 year old Landlord Mami to learn and speak to you in Hindi. If they have a desperate need they will learn. It is their choice.

          Please don't force the ones who does not have the need or wish just because you can feel "at home"

          BTW - Tamilnadu has been one of top performing state & Chennai has been one of Top performing city in India since Indipendence - All this with over 98% of the population not knowing Hindi.

          I don't have tell you about the performance of Hindi belt in the feild of Industrial development or human development.

          Note: My mother tongue is Telugu not Tamil.
          Just my opinion, Economist.

          I don't expect the cleaner and auto guy to learn Hindi. I was just stating what many North Indians encounter when they come here. Yes, I agree its unfair of them to expect the locals to change. But I said it will be more feasible for Hindi to propagate in Tamil society rather than the other way round because of the sheer numbers difference. And if you'd remember, we started off by discussing about what makes a cosmopolitan city - hence my thoughts on that topic.

          I do think you are viewing my posts with the wrong lenses.

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          • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

            Originally posted by Lookout View Post
            And they are adapting from what I see around me, but still not enough to make non-Southerners feel at home.
            Learn Tamil and feel at home. If you find tamil is difficult, we accept. You should realize that Hindi is difficult for Tamils, in general one doesn't undergo a difficult learning unless there is a need.

            In my personal opinion Hindi is a mix of Sanskrit, Urdu, Arabic etc. nothin wrong in it India had Mughals for a long time. Non of these had strong presence in tamilnadu. Naturally there was nothing for Tamils to learn Hindi.

            On the other end tamil is enjoyed and worshipped here because of its nature and originality, heritage. It is the oldest of indian languages in practice and doesn't have a Sanskrit root. Tamil has it's own root and has survived centuries and more. This fact is hid by politicians in north India who try to impose Hindi. Read more and try to understand why Hindi is not accepted naturally in TN unlike other states. If you don't, that is ok but realize there are good natural reasons why Hindi is not common in TN.

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            • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

              Originally posted by iceemani View Post
              Learn Tamil and feel at home. If you find tamil is difficult, we accept. You should realize that Hindi is difficult for Tamils, in general one doesn't undergo a difficult learning unless there is a need.

              In my personal opinion Hindi is a mix of Sanskrit, Urdu, Arabic etc. nothin wrong in it India had Mughals for a long time. Non of these had strong presence in tamilnadu. Naturally there was nothing for Tamils to learn Hindi.

              On the other end tamil is enjoyed and worshipped here because of its nature and originality, heritage. It is the oldest of indian languages in practice and doesn't have a Sanskrit root. Tamil has it's own root and has survived centuries and more. This fact is hid by politicians in north India who try to impose Hindi. Read more and try to understand why Hindi is not accepted naturally in TN unlike other states. If you don't, that is ok but realize there are good natural reasons why Hindi is not common in TN.
              I agree, Mani. I have picked up rudimentary Tamil to make do. And yes, its totally understandable why Tamil and Hindi are so different even though I hear some Tamil with incorporated Sanskrit words.

              And yes, Hindi is not the official language. Its the most commonly spoken language and I was coming from that perspective.

              Comment


              • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

                Most of the educated people all over India already know a common language. Remaining people knows lot of words in it already and can communicate in broken sentences. Upcoming generation are all being educated in that language. That language is called English. South don't need to learn Hindi, North don't need to learn Tamil.. lets use English. It will also help all over the world. If anyone needs to learn additional language like Hindi, Bengali, Malayalam.. that individual will decide based on his/her needs. Here is what Anna Durai said:

                "A man had two dogs – a big one and a small one. He wanted his dogs to go in and out of the house freely without him having to keep the house door open all the time. So he built two “trap doors” – one big trap door for the big dog and one small for the small dog. Neighbors who saw these two doors laughed at him and called him an idiot. Why put a big door and a small door? All that was needed was the big door. Both the big and the small dog could use it!


                Indian government’s arguments for making Hindi the official or link language of India are as ridiculous as the need for a big door and a small door for the big dog and the small dog. Indian government agrees that English is needed for communication with the world, and every school in India teaches English. Then the Indian government says that all of us should know Hindi also in order to communicate amongst ourselves within India. I ask, “Since every school in India teaches English, why can’t it be our link language? Why do Tamils have to study English for communication with the world and Hindi for communications within India? Do we need a big door for the big dog and a small door for the small dog? I say, let the small dog use the big door too!”

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                • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

                  Since I contributed to all this lively discussion, let me confess that I know ...

                  Tamil, Telugu (lived in Vijayawada, Secunderabad, Warangal), Kannada (living in Bangalore and make it a point to speak as much in Kannada as possible), Malayalam, Hindi (of course, having lived in Hyderabad, Gorakhpur, Jamshedpur, etc), some Bengali (lived in Cal).

                  Also learnt some Russian, German and Japanese when I was interacting with people from these regions in my projects, though I hardly remember any of it now.

                  One neat trick I used to have in my workplace is to maintain a deadpan face and mind my own business, when people speaking one language get together and provide all kinds of gossip and opinions about everyone else in the office, completely unaware that I understood everything that was being spoken! Sometimes I got some unintended feedback about myself as well . Its always useful to have most people think you don't know any language except English. Lots of fun when it happened but I'm too old for that now.

                  If you have the experience of many languages early in life it helps later on to pick up languages easily.

                  But the most productive languages for me have been Fortran, BASIC, COBOL, C, C++, Java, Javascript, Perl, Ruby, Python !!!

                  Wherever you are, try to learn the local lingo as quickly as possible. It is always helpful sometime in life.

                  cheers
                  Last edited by wiseman; May 28 2015, 07:09 PM.

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                  • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

                    Originally posted by Lookout View Post
                    Just my opinion, Economist.

                    . But I said it will be more feasible for Hindi to propagate in Tamil society rather than the other way round because of the sheer numbers difference.
                    why are you so short-sighted - Think globally. It will be more feasible for English to propagate in Hindi/Tamil society rather than the other way round because of the sheer numbers difference.

                    In 1947, how many people could speak in hindi. Ever since Independence, the Govt of India had cleverly pushed (like Hindi is a must for central govt jobs,..etc) pro-Hindi propaganda thereby misinforming the common man that Hindi was the "national" language, when clearly Hindi was only mentioned as an "official" language in the Constitution of India.

                    Before 1947, there is no country called India. When we ruled by British, English was not forced upon. Now (H)indian rulers trying to impose Hindi, which is unacceptable. For us, both english and hindi are foreign languages. Think what happened to Pakistan when they tried to impose Urdu. Bangladesh (Land of Bengalis) was formed.

                    Indian govt should avoid hindi in train tickets, bank slips,milestones ..etc,(only 2 languages, english and local), we can save lot of money and trees.

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                    • Re : Property Price Trends in Chennai

                      No one can avoid English now.

                      Even the villagers in remote north india feel knowing english is advantageous and prestigious. All hindi channels programs and Hindi films also portray if a man speaks good english he is viewed superior.

                      Whether in Tamilnadu or Bihar or Orisaa or punjab, there is a craze among the common public to admit their children in English medium schools.

                      Whether we like it or not, after few decades every young indian will be more proficient in English than any indian language including hindi

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