Hi Friends,

I had been to the FAIRPRO '09 Fair.My Impression after seeing, is that prices are stagnating for all ongoing projects and builders are trying hard to hold them up.

Prices are 10-20% lower for new projects in the pipeline and for ready to occupy flats.

The discount offered at the stall was very less and were in the range 150-500 Rs/sqft max.

For the benefit of fellow members I am posting the project/price details of some of the properties.



Akshaya Foundations

Adora - OMR - 3750/sqft
Aikya - Adyar - 12500/sqft

Alliance Group - Orchid Springs - 3199/sqft

Arihant Foundations

Heirloom - Thalumbur - 2499/sqft
Escapade - Thoraipakkam - 4150/sqft
Villa Viviana - Maramalai nagar - starting from 1 Crore

Asvini Foundations

Amarisa-phase1 - Ramapuram - 4500/sqft
Amarisa-phase2 - Ramapuram - 4250/sqft
Akshita - Madipakkam - 3800/sqft

Casa Grande

Riveira - Palikkarnai - 3450/sqft - before discount 3600/sqft
Silver Oak - Perungudi - 4300/sqft - before discount 4500/sqft
Madhuban - Madipakkam - 3300 /sqft - before discount 3500/sqft
Mylapore - R.K.salai - 12500/sqft
Plots
Ponmar -785/sqft - before discount 825/sqft
Maraimalainagar - 790/sqft - before discount 825/sqft

CeeDeeyes - Chenni Pattinam

Basic Rate - 1600/sqft All Inclusive - 2075/sqft

Chaitanya shanthiniketan

Sunnyvale - Ayanavaram - 4850/sqft
Serena - Rajkilpakkam - 2550/sqft
Gardenia - OMR - 1900/sqft
Green Park - Chitlapakkam - 3300/sqft

DLF

Gardencity - 3200/sqft - was told slash in prices expected in coming weeks.

Doshi Housing

Etopia I and II - Perungudi - 3895/sqft
Nakshatra - Tambaram - 2995/sqft - Completion May 2010
Tranquil - Velachery - 5500/sqft - Completion February 2010
Trinity park - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 3195/sqft - Completion April 2009
Serene Couny-Villas - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 2200,2600/sqft
LlanStephan - Chetpet - 9000/sqft - Completion May 2009
Sri Mahalakshmi - Ayanavaram - 4495/sqft - Ready to Occupy

ETA

Rosedale - OMR - 3100/sqft
Le Chalet - Villas - Sriperambudhur - 26 Lakhs - 37 Lakhs

Hiranandani Upscale - 4200/sqft

Hiranandani Palace Gardens - 3475/sqft

Indus Housing

anantya - Navalur,OMR - 2299/sqft + 400(other charges)
riviera villa - Navalur,OMR - 90 Lakhs onwards
habittera - urapakkam,GST - 2399/sqft + 400(other charges)
amber - Saidapet - 4750/sqft

Jain Housing

Ankush Prakas - Kilpauk - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Amrit Kailash - Strahns Road - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
La Gardenia - Nungabakkam - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Ansruta - Valluvarkottam, nungabakkam - 10000/sqft - Ready to occupy
Antariska - Kodambakkam - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Eiffel Garden - Vadapalani - 4250/sqft - Ready to occupy
Saagarika - M.R.C Nagar, sea facing - 10000/12500 - Ready to occupy
Green acres - Pallavaram - 3900/sqft - Ready to occupy
Abhishek - Selaiyur - 3500/sqft - Ready to occupy.

Jamals

Orchid - Palikkarnai - 3500/sqft
Palazzo - keelkattalai - 3700/sqft
Grandeur - Velappanchavadi(near saveetha dental college) - 3200/sqft

KGEYES

3 Projects on L.B.Road, Thiruvanmiyur - 6650/sqft
Delmare - Beach road,Thiruvanmiyur - 7000/sqft
Carolina - Velachery,Taramani - 4500/sqft
Swathi - Sastri Nagar,Adyar - 8500/sqft
Kalakshetra - 8000/sqft

Landmark Constructions

Tiara - Perungudi - 4000/sqft - Completion on August 2009
Aston Ville - Vadapalani - 5500 sqft - Completion on July 2009
Tudors Place - K.K.Nagar - 6500/sqft
The Address - Adyar - 11500/sqft
The Grange - Palavakkam - 7500/sqft
Cenralia - Chrompet - 2950/sqft - prelaunch
Gem Towers - AnnaNagar - To be launched.
Mahalakshmi Heights - Ashok Nagar - To be launched

L&T Estancia
Construction in Progress
1st-3rd Floor - 3950/sqft
4th -12 floor - floor rise charge of 20/sqft for each floor
13th - 17th - 4450/qft

L&T Eden Park - 3600/sqft

Mantri Synergy - OMR
2800/sqft - with 20/floor rise
Special offer - First Floor - all inclusive
1140 sqft - 33,67,000
870 sqft - 28,50,000

Navin Housing

Dayton Heights - Nelson Manickam road - 6500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 2nd floor
Subha Mangala - Ramapuram - 4200/sqft
Brookfield - Nanmangalam - 3500/sqft
Merrylands - Medavakkam - 3500/sqft

Olympia Opaline - 3441/sqft - spl budget flats available

PACE Builders

Anna nagar west - 4195/sqft - before discount 4495/sqft
Selaiyur - 3195/sqft - before discount 3495/sqft
Valasarvakkam - 2795/sqft - before discount 3295/sqft

PS Srijan

The Grand - Velachery - 5250 sqft - before discount 5500/sqft - Floor Rise applicable from 4th floor

Rajparis

Harmony - Medavakkam - 3100/sqft

Rajarathnam Constructions

RC Prince Gardenia - Perambur redhill road,Kolathur - 3600/sqft

Rajkham

Independant houses - Ayyapathangal - 2600/sqft

Real Value

Sai Skanda - Velachery - 4200/sqft
Sai Surya - Palikaranai - 3800/sqft
OMR opp SIPCOT - 13.20 Lakhs onwards

Shriram Properties

Trishakti - SIPCOT - 2750/sqft
Shankari - 1990/sqft

Sidharth foundations

Tulip - k.k.nagar west - 4800/sqft - completion march 2009
Natura - medavakkam - 3100 /sqft - completion july 2009
Visvaleela - Annanagar - 8500 /sqft - to be launched
Dakshin - Urapakkam - price TBD - to be launched
upcoming projects in porur, thoraipakkam, rajkeelpakkam, mogappair.

SIS

Safaa - Urappakam - 3150/sqft

SSPDL

Crescent - Kelambakkam - Vandalur Road - 2500/sqft
Upcoming 2 villa project one in OMR and one in Sriperambathur.

Sumanth & Co

Thiruvanmiyur - 6000/sqft
Besant Nagar - 11500/sqft

TVH

Lumbini square - Pursaiwalkam - 5500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Premium) - OMR,Padur - 3100,3200 + 25/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Budget) - 2bhk - 20 Lakhs
3bhk - 30 Lakhs
Ekanta - Coimbatore - 3100/sqft
Revata - Mogappair east - 4500/sqft
Kamya - K.K,Nagar - 7000/sqft
Metro Golden Nest - Sriperambathur - 1bhk - 15 Lakhs
2bhk - 22 Lakhs
3bhk - 28 Lakhs

VGN Group

Minerva - Mogappair,Nolumbur - 2975/sqft
3 in 1, 4 in 1 - 3800/sqft
Mahalakshmi Nagar,Thiruverkadu - 3500/sqft
Plots
Mugalivakkam - 52 Lakhs/grnd
Selaiyur - 50 Lakhs/grnd
SPKoil - 34 Lakhs/grnd
Katankulathur - 22-27 Lakhs/grnd

Yuga Homes

Shem Park - chemmenachery - 3300/sqft
Upcoming in Koyambedu, R.A.Puram(8000/sqft)



There are lots of properties and also lots of potential buyers.There is sure a sense of uncertainity among the builders and also the buyers on when to make the next move.It was evident that correction in RE prices have started to happen.

Requesting members to respond with their thoughts on the current trend.
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  • Originally Posted by k11
    Then why are apts in Chrompet still languishing at around 4K. Mantri at 3850 was my reference.

    Should it be 6K now using the same return.


    Mantri is not good reference, even normal builder floor apartments in areas like Nehru Nagar and Hastinapuram costs 4500 psf and upwards. Landmark centralia which has not got approval for past 3 yrs and in middle of leather industries is priced 4200 psf.

    I don't know why Mantri is priced low, maybe they desperately need money or they have difficulty selling after they screwed up Synergy and spoiled their own reputation.
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  • I take back my coment on Mantri. I think we already discussed this.

    The Indep home prices are always absurd and are done well above market value sometimes. I guess your realtive is lucky on this front.
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  • Coming back to the inability of the suburbs to break price ceilings.

    Don't you guys think there is always a new suburbs that gets attention when prices have already ramped up.

    Here is my personal view and how I see Chennai.

    Late 90's was all about ECR, it peaked in 04-05. ECR boom died in 06.
    However there is a little chance of revival.

    02-06 was all about OMR, it peaked in 08 fell and now going up again might peak in 14-15. It looks the most promising suburb (Siruseri/Navalur).

    Porur got lot of attention in the post 05 period to 08 and prices have some more distance to go, Porur might end up a bit lesser than Moggapair prices in the coming years.

    Oragadam boom started in 06-07, it has got a lot more room to run.

    Guduvancherry too has got lot more room to run. However MWC might have peaked out, too far from city,

    Next upcoming stretch becoming Hyper is Sripermbadur - Poonamalle. Heating up since 09 and the airport talk. Prices on par with Oragadam/ interior Guduvanchery but not a lot of job growth and bad connectivity. Very little activity now. Govt might acquire huge belts of land to prime it up.

    Thiruvallur is very much dead.

    Ambattur area has some potential but for all intensive purposes it is dead.

    Redhills and nearby areas are also dead since 5 years without any activity.

    North Chennai suburbs is total mystery, never hear anything about it.
    North Chennai city itself is so cheap that people do not have to go to suburbs.


    So there is so much space all around the city, why do people think as if there are no more suburbs left. If the prices in OMR go up a lot wont the industries and companies got to other vacant areas.

    During the high interest rate environment, cost of the investment has gone up a lot.
    Choosing the area (suburb) with potential has become difficult.

    Where are you guys betting on?
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  • Originally Posted by k11

    When it comes to land, I do agree there is land hoarding.
    It is not rich people even middle class people are the biggest hoarders, buying up land and not building anything on it.
    If the developer gets cheap easy land, he will make cheap flats. Hoarding land backfires by making apts expensive especially in outskirts.
    This is bad for RE affordability.
    The only way I see is there needs to be some kind of vacant land tax. It should be 4-5% of the property value every year. If the property tax is not paid for 3-4 years they should auction off the landed property.

    We need to discourage plot ownership. Plots should be registered with a high stamp duty. May be they can charge 20% stamp duty and refund 12% of it when the building/house is complete.

    Govt can make a lot of money and bring down the housing prices in the suburbs this way. This will make life easier for all, buyers, builders and govt.


    I hope you are not serious, and I really hope the trigger happy govt doesn't read this and get ideas!

    1. Big developers buy large tracts of land at far off places, and encash by developing when required infra comes in. It's still happening. What's wrong in a middle class fellow investing in Land for the rainy day?

    3. I dont think middle class folks, in particular, buy land as investment. Its likely that they are unable to build a house they want to build. Additional taxes will only make it more difficult. Yep you talk about return of 12%, like thats going to happen across the counter, knowing how things work in a govt office. Unlike other forms of investment, housing is a social responsible sector. Mad taxing should be abhorred. What's being charged already is heavy. What social security does our govts offer today?!

    2. a) Like Einstein said, the only thing humans can never understand is taxes, or something like that. Taxes need some justification, Govts shouldn't tax just because they can. When I pay Stamp duty and reg. charges, that's supposed to help the govt in developing the required infra in that region, even though they dont! With the extra money you suggest, there is not even a pretense of a justification.

    b) Increasing such stamp duty and charges, will only lead to black money.

    c) There is no nationwide uniformity in stamp duty/reg charges. In some states the registered value is just 1/10th of the actual transaction. Tamil nadu is perhaps the most compliant and best regulated. Should we suffer on account of being good citizens?!
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  • Originally Posted by Clairvoyant
    Thanks K11 and VP. Will try to share what I'm aware of esp. in and around London which could be of help to others.

    London tube is designed in a way where everyarea within Zone 1-3 have tube (metro) station accessible within radius of 1-1.5 mile. It carries close to 3 million passengers a day. I would recommend you guys to visit www.tfl.gov.uk (transport for London website)- single source for all transport info (incl ferry, bus, tram, tube etc.. similar to unified metropolitan transport authority planned in Chennai. Prices shoots up moment there is a proposal to bring tube to any area (no different from us :) ) . So property prices are invariably linked to transport, but personally I believe building/widening roads never going to slove traffic woes.

    I used to frequent user on MRTS and loved it. I remember reading HK delegation were shocked suh prime RE lying vacant when they visited MRTS. I'm optimistic here turnaround won't take much time if only we have visionary team to manage it. London roads are as narrow as Chennai with intelligent traffic system and congestion zones it's managed admirably.

    I do agree unsless SG patronise metro/mono it's going to be white elephant, but i hope common sense prevails and it covers all area with CMDA (w-i-p in next 30 -50 years) .


    I am surprised to see link for tamil language in this UK website - www.tfl.gov.uk
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  • Went back to my post and realised my folly ! I guess posting when half asleep is not a good time :-)

    Yes they obviously meant in India and not Chennai alone :-) No one who has listened to Vijaykanth's statistical dialog from Ramana can mistake in quoting TN population!

    But yday the link was not yet ready so cudnt post it!
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  • Originally Posted by vettipayyan
    Went back to my post and realised my folly ! I guess posting when half asleep is not a good time :-)

    Yes they obviously meant in India and not Chennai alone :-) No one who has listened to Vijaykanth's statistical dialog from Ramana can mistake in quoting TN population!

    But yday the link was not yet ready so cudnt post it!


    No probs, we do not mind, you got the information out fast.

    Thats is more important and helpful.
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  • I just checked GRN builders website and following are their apartment rates:

    Thoraipakkam - 5000 psf
    Adambakkam - 5000 psf
    Selaiyur (East Tambaram) - 5500 psf
    Nanganallur - 6000 psf
    Madipakkam - 7000 psf

    They seem to stick to standard pricing for given locality.
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  • GRN pricing in Chennai city areas:

    KK Nagar - 9000 psf
    Thiruvanmiyur - 10500 psf
    Mylapore - 12000 psf
    T.Nagar - 12000 psf
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  • Nice to see information on London Metro (tube/underground whatever it is called), but let us not forget that the work on what is London's Metro/UG started in 1860/70s.. we are 140 years behind the best cities of world. But still there is hope.
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  • Here are my views.

    Like your reply, I like a good debate.
    My views could be bit harsh, I hope you do not mind.

    Originally Posted by murugesh

    1. Big developers buy large tracts of land at far off places, and encash by developing when required infra comes in. It's still happening. What's wrong in a middle class fellow investing in Land for the rainy day?

    Big Developers cannot hold out land for long periods of time. Most of the big ones are public and shareholder do not like them taking so much risks. DLF is a big exception, well known hoarder but that was long time ago, they are in liquidation mode.

    But S Indian developers are known for getting projects quickly online. The approval process takes time, but overall I have never seen big parcels of land lying vacant. Remember they borrow at 15% or more sometimes. Also they do not get funding 100% of the value. The banks will give 50-60% of the value for developers too. They have to tie with PE or external sources which would never want to see them hoarding land.

    The whole chain, Developer - PE funds/short term investors/Financial Inst like to make quick money.

    Originally Posted by murugesh

    3. I dont think middle class folks, in particular, buy land as investment. Its likely that they are unable to build a house they want to build. Additional taxes will only make it more difficult. Yep you talk about return of 12%, like thats going to happen across the counter, knowing how things work in a govt office. Unlike other forms of investment, housing is a social responsible sector. Mad taxing should be abhorred. What's being charged already is heavy. What social security does our govts offer today?!

    Middle class people are contributing a lot in this land hoarding. Layout development business is booming because of them. Have you seen TV ads for Land investments lately?
    This forum itself is a good example. See how many folks inclduing NRIs have bought land in god forsaken places and not building anything on it (hoarding). If the land went to a developer he would have atleast built something.

    How many layouts have you seen promoting land parcels of 5 crores or more? - ZERO
    All of these layouts are designed for middle class people and NRIs. Most of them are at 20L or less, which affects lower middle class person a lot than an upper middle class person.
    No industrialist or business man will buy in hopes of building a large home in a half ground plot among these layouts, they will rather put the money in their business and make more returns.

    Of course, most cheating also happens because this section of society are the most gullible (lower middle class & NRI). We ourselves are responsible for irrational pricing, the other partys do try to make a quick buck.


    Originally Posted by murugesh

    2. a) Like Einstein said, the only thing humans can never understand is taxes, or something like that. Taxes need some justification, Govts shouldn't tax just because they can. When I pay Stamp duty and reg. charges, that's supposed to help the govt in developing the required infra in that region, even though they dont! With the extra money you suggest, there is not even a pretense of a justification.

    b) Increasing such stamp duty and charges, will only lead to black money.

    c) There is no nationwide uniformity in stamp duty/reg charges. In some states the registered value is just 1/10th of the actual transaction. Tamil nadu is perhaps the most compliant and best regulated. Should we suffer on account of being good citizens?!


    Increasing stamp duty will lead to black money - agreed.
    But increasing guideline value will make sure the deal has more 'White'%.

    After govt increased guideline value (now it is 2007) most transactions are happening cleanly, there is no reg happening under GV. I hear that GV is adequate now and close to market value. Even if is 75% of MV then that means 75% white deal is min. If it is way off, they should revise again an increase it. They can do this once a year or once in 2 yrs.

    Land owners, hoarders, speculators should pay more money (taxes).
    Lets say, 90% of Chennai population do not own land, then why should they contribute their tax money to put road and development near your property. If the govt develops the area with public money, you profit from it, not the rest of the public.

    Stamp Duty should not be same for flats/houses in city and vacant land in outskirts. There should be an substantial increase in stamp duty and property tax for vacant land. If I was CM, I will even impose these on day one.

    Home ownership should be encouraged, residential land ownership should be discouraged.

    Hoarding of land is the biggest contributor for price rise in suburbs.
    It does not make sense to punish genuine home buyers and reward speculators.


    PS - Even I am also a speculator as others in this forum, who got benefited.
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  • Reg township projects in areas to be served by metro, the metro line is coming up in already heavily populated areas so large parcels of land may not be available.

    But as i keep saying, many of us are interested in RE as an investment option. There are plenty of second hand, old flats (with no carparking) etc in those places which will have Metro stations. Such units are good way to bet on metro as a factor in influencing RE prices. Right now some of places where metro stations are to come up are significantly cheaper than some fancy places in Core Chennai City. This should change eventually.
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  • Regarding the vacant land tax/hoarding land debate :

    I would like to disagree with k11. Nowadays, middle class is favourite whipping boy/scapegoat for all folks. But point is the biggest owners of vacant land in absolute terms are 1) Government and govt bodies themselves 2) Lot of industrial units. I keep hearing that Amalgamations group in chennai owns lot of unoccupied land.

    Will vacant land tax solve anything? Think from point of view of someone who invested in a plot in say guduvanchery for 50L. He is a middle class guy, so he would be getting say 50K or 60K pm tax free. Currently the cost of construction is Rs 1600 per sqft . So to erect a decent house with FSI of 1.5, the owner of plot must plough 60L to build a residential unit. For most Middle class people, this is too much of a money. So the culprit is the cost of construction being very high relative to incomes.

    Suppose a law is brought to tax vacant land at say 3% of land value p.a. Immediately we will find everyone scramble to build something the result is cost of construction will skyrocket. Government wont be able to even build essential infrastructure and every construction commodity will be hoarded. And most importantly, govt as owner of vacant land itself will lose lot of money, RE market will plunge and government revenues from registration will drop. And people will erect temporary huts and skirt the law.

    So vacant land tax wont work in developing country like India. What else can be done?

    One problem in India, is unlike in Western nations, inflation is very high. At same time there is no meaningful social security and no job security except govt sector. A middle class family out of job can within 5-10 years go to slums, unless they own hard assets. Gold and property investment is popular because they are only really inflation proof investments available to Indians. For a middle class person buying plot in a distant suburb it is not just a hoarding exercise, it is a social security scheme for his family in a distant future. Also taxation laws in india punish those investing in financial assets while doing nothing about those investing in hard assets. All these make investing in plots the only avenue left. We should reflect on all these and think how things can be changed . And that will all take lot of time.
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  • Originally Posted by k11

    But S Indian developers are known for getting projects quickly online. The approval process takes time, but overall I have never seen big parcels of land lying vacant. Remember they borrow at 15% or more sometimes. Also they do not get funding 100% of the value. The banks will give 50-60% of the value for developers too. They have to tie with PE or external sources which would never want to see them hoarding land.


    This is only applicable to builders who buy land in established areas for exorbitant rates, not applicable for builders buying land in far flung areas for throwaway prices and wait for several years until area develops.

    Hira purchased Oragadam land from Triveni academy for dead cheap rate long before anyone knew it would become an industrial area.

    According to Sobha investor presentation, the average amount they spend on land purchase is Rs.100 psf.

    They have hundreds of acres of vacant land in Tambaram and Sriperumbudur
    purchased long back.
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  • Originally Posted by k11
    Here are my views.


    Land owners, hoarders, speculators should pay more money (taxes).
    Lets say, 90% of Chennai population do not own land, then why should they contribute their tax money to put road and development near your property. If the govt develops the area with public money, you profit from it, not the rest of the public.

    Stamp Duty should not be same for flats/houses in city and vacant land in outskirts. There should be an substantial increase in stamp duty and property tax for vacant land. If I was CM, I will even impose these on day one.

    Home ownership should be encouraged, residential land ownership should be discouraged.

    Hoarding of land is the biggest contributor for price rise in suburbs.
    It does not make sense to punish genuine home buyers and reward speculators.



    Lending institutions always favour those who buy homes over those buying plots. Also the IT benefits are available only to those who borrow to buy a home.
    Also reg tax, an empty plot does not demand any infrastructure (power, sewage, water) whereas a home demands these things. So it is logical that plot owners are not taxed at same rate as home owners.
    One of biggest hoarders of land is Government itself (big government agencies - central,state, local govt). Most of land is not fully used or underused. If govt is serious they should liquidate all their Real estate assets in big cities to projects that provide low cost housing. Why is that not being done?

    Another thing that should be done is - all investors in plot should be asked to have PAN number and also provide evidence for source of income. Every plot transaction should go through a IT scrutiny to see if buyer bought out of white money.

    Let us not deny middle class of its desire to have decent social security and inflation proof retirement. But let those who invest be also told that investment should be done only through legally earned and income taxed income.
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