Hi Friends,

I had been to the FAIRPRO '09 Fair.My Impression after seeing, is that prices are stagnating for all ongoing projects and builders are trying hard to hold them up.

Prices are 10-20% lower for new projects in the pipeline and for ready to occupy flats.

The discount offered at the stall was very less and were in the range 150-500 Rs/sqft max.

For the benefit of fellow members I am posting the project/price details of some of the properties.



Akshaya Foundations

Adora - OMR - 3750/sqft
Aikya - Adyar - 12500/sqft

Alliance Group - Orchid Springs - 3199/sqft

Arihant Foundations

Heirloom - Thalumbur - 2499/sqft
Escapade - Thoraipakkam - 4150/sqft
Villa Viviana - Maramalai nagar - starting from 1 Crore

Asvini Foundations

Amarisa-phase1 - Ramapuram - 4500/sqft
Amarisa-phase2 - Ramapuram - 4250/sqft
Akshita - Madipakkam - 3800/sqft

Casa Grande

Riveira - Palikkarnai - 3450/sqft - before discount 3600/sqft
Silver Oak - Perungudi - 4300/sqft - before discount 4500/sqft
Madhuban - Madipakkam - 3300 /sqft - before discount 3500/sqft
Mylapore - R.K.salai - 12500/sqft
Plots
Ponmar -785/sqft - before discount 825/sqft
Maraimalainagar - 790/sqft - before discount 825/sqft

CeeDeeyes - Chenni Pattinam

Basic Rate - 1600/sqft All Inclusive - 2075/sqft

Chaitanya shanthiniketan

Sunnyvale - Ayanavaram - 4850/sqft
Serena - Rajkilpakkam - 2550/sqft
Gardenia - OMR - 1900/sqft
Green Park - Chitlapakkam - 3300/sqft

DLF

Gardencity - 3200/sqft - was told slash in prices expected in coming weeks.

Doshi Housing

Etopia I and II - Perungudi - 3895/sqft
Nakshatra - Tambaram - 2995/sqft - Completion May 2010
Tranquil - Velachery - 5500/sqft - Completion February 2010
Trinity park - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 3195/sqft - Completion April 2009
Serene Couny-Villas - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 2200,2600/sqft
LlanStephan - Chetpet - 9000/sqft - Completion May 2009
Sri Mahalakshmi - Ayanavaram - 4495/sqft - Ready to Occupy

ETA

Rosedale - OMR - 3100/sqft
Le Chalet - Villas - Sriperambudhur - 26 Lakhs - 37 Lakhs

Hiranandani Upscale - 4200/sqft

Hiranandani Palace Gardens - 3475/sqft

Indus Housing

anantya - Navalur,OMR - 2299/sqft + 400(other charges)
riviera villa - Navalur,OMR - 90 Lakhs onwards
habittera - urapakkam,GST - 2399/sqft + 400(other charges)
amber - Saidapet - 4750/sqft

Jain Housing

Ankush Prakas - Kilpauk - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Amrit Kailash - Strahns Road - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
La Gardenia - Nungabakkam - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Ansruta - Valluvarkottam, nungabakkam - 10000/sqft - Ready to occupy
Antariska - Kodambakkam - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Eiffel Garden - Vadapalani - 4250/sqft - Ready to occupy
Saagarika - M.R.C Nagar, sea facing - 10000/12500 - Ready to occupy
Green acres - Pallavaram - 3900/sqft - Ready to occupy
Abhishek - Selaiyur - 3500/sqft - Ready to occupy.

Jamals

Orchid - Palikkarnai - 3500/sqft
Palazzo - keelkattalai - 3700/sqft
Grandeur - Velappanchavadi(near saveetha dental college) - 3200/sqft

KGEYES

3 Projects on L.B.Road, Thiruvanmiyur - 6650/sqft
Delmare - Beach road,Thiruvanmiyur - 7000/sqft
Carolina - Velachery,Taramani - 4500/sqft
Swathi - Sastri Nagar,Adyar - 8500/sqft
Kalakshetra - 8000/sqft

Landmark Constructions

Tiara - Perungudi - 4000/sqft - Completion on August 2009
Aston Ville - Vadapalani - 5500 sqft - Completion on July 2009
Tudors Place - K.K.Nagar - 6500/sqft
The Address - Adyar - 11500/sqft
The Grange - Palavakkam - 7500/sqft
Cenralia - Chrompet - 2950/sqft - prelaunch
Gem Towers - AnnaNagar - To be launched.
Mahalakshmi Heights - Ashok Nagar - To be launched

L&T Estancia
Construction in Progress
1st-3rd Floor - 3950/sqft
4th -12 floor - floor rise charge of 20/sqft for each floor
13th - 17th - 4450/qft

L&T Eden Park - 3600/sqft

Mantri Synergy - OMR
2800/sqft - with 20/floor rise
Special offer - First Floor - all inclusive
1140 sqft - 33,67,000
870 sqft - 28,50,000

Navin Housing

Dayton Heights - Nelson Manickam road - 6500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 2nd floor
Subha Mangala - Ramapuram - 4200/sqft
Brookfield - Nanmangalam - 3500/sqft
Merrylands - Medavakkam - 3500/sqft

Olympia Opaline - 3441/sqft - spl budget flats available

PACE Builders

Anna nagar west - 4195/sqft - before discount 4495/sqft
Selaiyur - 3195/sqft - before discount 3495/sqft
Valasarvakkam - 2795/sqft - before discount 3295/sqft

PS Srijan

The Grand - Velachery - 5250 sqft - before discount 5500/sqft - Floor Rise applicable from 4th floor

Rajparis

Harmony - Medavakkam - 3100/sqft

Rajarathnam Constructions

RC Prince Gardenia - Perambur redhill road,Kolathur - 3600/sqft

Rajkham

Independant houses - Ayyapathangal - 2600/sqft

Real Value

Sai Skanda - Velachery - 4200/sqft
Sai Surya - Palikaranai - 3800/sqft
OMR opp SIPCOT - 13.20 Lakhs onwards

Shriram Properties

Trishakti - SIPCOT - 2750/sqft
Shankari - 1990/sqft

Sidharth foundations

Tulip - k.k.nagar west - 4800/sqft - completion march 2009
Natura - medavakkam - 3100 /sqft - completion july 2009
Visvaleela - Annanagar - 8500 /sqft - to be launched
Dakshin - Urapakkam - price TBD - to be launched
upcoming projects in porur, thoraipakkam, rajkeelpakkam, mogappair.

SIS

Safaa - Urappakam - 3150/sqft

SSPDL

Crescent - Kelambakkam - Vandalur Road - 2500/sqft
Upcoming 2 villa project one in OMR and one in Sriperambathur.

Sumanth & Co

Thiruvanmiyur - 6000/sqft
Besant Nagar - 11500/sqft

TVH

Lumbini square - Pursaiwalkam - 5500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Premium) - OMR,Padur - 3100,3200 + 25/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Budget) - 2bhk - 20 Lakhs
3bhk - 30 Lakhs
Ekanta - Coimbatore - 3100/sqft
Revata - Mogappair east - 4500/sqft
Kamya - K.K,Nagar - 7000/sqft
Metro Golden Nest - Sriperambathur - 1bhk - 15 Lakhs
2bhk - 22 Lakhs
3bhk - 28 Lakhs

VGN Group

Minerva - Mogappair,Nolumbur - 2975/sqft
3 in 1, 4 in 1 - 3800/sqft
Mahalakshmi Nagar,Thiruverkadu - 3500/sqft
Plots
Mugalivakkam - 52 Lakhs/grnd
Selaiyur - 50 Lakhs/grnd
SPKoil - 34 Lakhs/grnd
Katankulathur - 22-27 Lakhs/grnd

Yuga Homes

Shem Park - chemmenachery - 3300/sqft
Upcoming in Koyambedu, R.A.Puram(8000/sqft)



There are lots of properties and also lots of potential buyers.There is sure a sense of uncertainity among the builders and also the buyers on when to make the next move.It was evident that correction in RE prices have started to happen.

Requesting members to respond with their thoughts on the current trend.
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  • One last point from me - whenever we think of new laws, we should be careful and aware that people will find ways to misuse.

    If vacant land ownership is taxed, people will erect a thatched shed and show that it is rented out to some labourers . And that is it !! Will it look nice to see all those empty plots in city suburbs dotted with ugly looking huts?
    CommentQuote
  • Many builders have acquired large tracts of land along the ORR for future development.The ORR may witness maximum real estate growth in the future because prices there are very low at present, said Confederation of Real Estate Developers Association of India secretary T Chitty Babu.


    He said,the presence of service roads will pre-empt mushrooming of unorganized retail shops and promote planned development.Still,the CMDA needs to finalise a detailed master plan for the ORR such that all interior areas also see organised development.Otherwise,the ORR will witness a linear growth like the Old Mahabalipuram Road and interior areas will never get attention.



    Article Window
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Love4land


    Many builders have acquired large tracts of land along the ORR for future development.The ORR may witness maximum real estate growth in the future because prices there are very low at present, said Confederation of Real Estate Developers Association of India secretary T Chitty Babu.
    Article Window


    Wow! I must say that the RE Developers go hand in hand in promoting a place as the next big thing! They did it for OMR (altho it had some IT parks, if not infra and in comparison, the other places hardly are so close to city + provided employment opportunity), then they said Oragadam, then they said Guduvanchery, now ORR.

    Now already small builders would have started aquiring land near ORR. Then builders like Navin etc wud bring up huge gated communities there to exploit the hype and cheap land costs there!

    All the RE media like chennairealty.biz , etc will show statistics and growth charts and will project this area as GOLD. Many buyers will queue to buy plots and be happy!

    Then Govt might change and all things will stay put until some big businessman in IT or other industry will announce some office there.

    Then after few years everyone will realise they have created one more orphan! :-) By this time the developers wud be busy with the next big thing.. probably the new highways!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Love4land

    Hira purchased Oragadam land from Triveni academy for dead cheap rate long before anyone knew it would become an industrial area.



    Following is the evidence of what Love4Land says above about Hira!

    Following article on May 12 2012 shows how much land Hira has currently in Chennai.

    business.outlookindia.com | Row House

    Approximately a total of almost 600 acres!


    In addition to this, the whole article is an interesting read about the personal and professional history of the family!
    CommentQuote
  • Love4Land, I guess you were looking for Hira's 1 bhk unit details from their OMR project, if i am not wrong.

    I got the stats from thier investor update doc for 2007. Almost 10 % is 1 BHK (120 out of 1258)

    http://www.hircoplc.com/Investor_Update_August_2007.pdf
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Love4land
    This is only applicable to builders who buy land in established areas for exorbitant rates, not applicable for builders buying land in far flung areas for throwaway prices and wait for several years until area develops.

    Hira purchased Oragadam land from Triveni academy for dead cheap rate long before anyone knew it would become an industrial area.

    According to Sobha investor presentation, the average amount they spend on land purchase is Rs.100 psf.

    They have hundreds of acres of vacant land in Tambaram and Sriperumbudur
    purchased long back.


    Hira has always been an opportunist. They got their powai land under controversial agreement from Maha govt.Triveni academy land was also bought at dirt cheap rate from kanchi saints when they were stuck in a litigation. They even filled up a natural lake by paying off authorities in erstwhile DMK govt.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by ramki830
    One last point from me - whenever we think of new laws, we should be careful and aware that people will find ways to misuse.

    If vacant land ownership is taxed, people will erect a thatched shed and show that it is rented out to some labourers . And that is it !! Will it look nice to see all those empty plots in city suburbs dotted with ugly looking huts?


    Yes, I agree people will find way out of this.

    I think that's is where CMDA could come in and help evaluating the construction. I know this sounds crazy.

    But they can set some rules like plots above 25L in value cannot have huts and need to have some kind of concrete structure of certain specification.
    Of course, they cannot prevent people buying 1 acre and building a small house. To fix this they need to limit residential land purchase to 0.5 acre or something for individuals, for developers and companies this should not be applicable.

    This will make an economic boom in construction (lot of jobs).
    This will make the suburbs pretty much rent free for poor people because there will be so much supply. Govt can forget about housing schemes for poor.


    Here is my list now, reworked to include the people who will misuse it.

    20% Stamp Duty for Vacant Land in Suburbs.
    POA disouraged for any RE deal. Registration with POA will attract 10% extra duty on top of 20%.

    5% Vacant Land Tax (in addition to property tax)

    Applicable to all residential plots in suburbs with GV greater than 1000/sqft which are not LIG/EWS housing from Govt. Far off areas like Walajah will not need to be included in this, it has to be metropolitan limits.

    Govt will collect tax for 5 years for everyone. If someone sells in between they lose the credit.

    After 5 years, Govt refunds the (tax collected + nominal interest),

    If there is a CMDA approved plan with a structure (we need some specification) then it will be refunded. It cannot be locked, someone has to live, need to a registered rental document to show that the property has not been empty for atleast 2.5 years.

    If land is bought by a commercial entity (or a Developer) they do not get refunds. They will bear the full cost.



    Most speculators will not bother to build anything as they will pay the 5% per year then worry about going around CMDA. They will also not care about 20% stamp duty.

    But what it will do is reduce the demand invariably. This will put a pin in the RE land bubble, values will automatically come down. Govt can raise a lot of money, they can use this for redevelopment. Even RE developers who hoard will pay maximum tax. If draconian laws are bought like this we might see some respite.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by ramki830
    But point is the biggest owners of vacant land in absolute terms are 1) Government and govt bodies themselves 2) Lot of industrial units. I keep hearing that Amalgamations group in chennai owns lot of unoccupied land.

    Govt is owned by people. Not the other way around.
    Whatever the Govt owns belongs to us.

    Industries can own industrial land, we got to make sure they do not occupy residential land. Govt can put special tax or something on conversions when they happen.
    Similarly, people can own agricultural land. When they do conversion is when you levy a conversion tax. Make them give up 20% for OSR (parks, trees), 25% for roads or public purpose and they can use the rest 55%.


    Will vacant land tax solve anything? Think from point of view of someone who invested in a plot in say guduvanchery for 50L. He is a middle class guy, so he would be getting say 50K or 60K pm tax free. Currently the cost of construction is Rs 1600 per sqft . So to erect a decent house with FSI of 1.5, the owner of plot must plough 60L to build a residential unit. For most Middle class people, this is too much of a money. So the culprit is the cost of construction being very high relative to incomes.
    If he does not have why can't he buy a flat. There are flats available in Guduvancherry for 25L.
    What is the necessity for a middle class person (who does not have money) to build a 60L house on a 50L plot?
    If he does not have 60L to build then he should not buy the 50L plot either. Under high taxation people will start thinking about it.


    Originally Posted by ramki830

    One problem in India, is unlike in Western nations, inflation is very high. At same time there is no meaningful social security and no job security except govt sector. A middle class family out of job can within 5-10 years go to slums, unless they own hard assets. Gold and property investment is popular because they are only really inflation proof investments available to Indians. For a middle class person buying plot in a distant suburb it is not just a hoarding exercise, it is a social security scheme for his family in a distant future. Also taxation laws in india punish those investing in financial assets while doing nothing about those investing in hard assets. All these make investing in plots the only avenue left. We should reflect on all these and think how things can be changed . And that will all take lot of time.


    People should not be forced to put money in RE. Put it in share market or other risky assets.
    Making RE price increase is more like ponzi scheme.
    They should bring down the price of RE and slow the returns. Taxes will do that.

    I am already seeing lesser speculators on city properties becasue of high duties, thats why they are more stable and the price rise is backed by end users.

    Govt does not need to make sure that RE keeps on increasing. They should encourage end users and keep out speculators. Why should they worry about your savings return?
    Why make one segment of economy yeild high returns and other low.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by vettipayyan
    Love4Land, I guess you were looking for Hira's 1 bhk unit details from their OMR project, if i am not wrong.

    I got the stats from thier investor update doc for 2007. Almost 10 % is 1 BHK (120 out of 1258)

    http://www.hircoplc.com/Investor_Update_August_2007.pdf



    Great, but I think he was looking for HoH (Upscale, OMR) not Hirco (Palace Gardens).
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by vettipayyan
    Love4Land, I guess you were looking for Hira's 1 bhk unit details from their OMR project, if i am not wrong.

    I got the stats from thier investor update doc for 2007. Almost 10 % is 1 BHK (120 out of 1258)

    http://www.hircoplc.com/Investor_Update_August_2007.pdf


    I'm glad I've kindled interest in investor data, this is the correct way to discuss as data is definite and indisputable. Like K11 has pointed out, Hirco is a different company. Let me know if you come across similar data for "House of Hiranandani".
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by vettipayyan
    Following is the evidence of what Love4Land says above about Hira!

    Following article on May 12 2012 shows how much land Hira has currently in Chennai.

    business.outlookindia.com | Row House

    Approximately a total of almost 600 acres!


    In addition to this, the whole article is an interesting read about the personal and professional history of the family!


    Sriniwasan of Kotak Realty, however, believes that the Hiranandanis have their task cut out in terms of breaking into new markets. “I am not sure whether the strategy of building a community township out of Chennai like they did in Mumbai will really work. For one, it’s a conservative market, sales velocity is low and the investor base is relatively non-existent, unlike Mumbai.” (See: Local lords). There’s also the risk of the brothers cannibalising each other’s market share since Hirco too is setting up a township, comprising 10,000 apartment units, in Chennai. But Niranjan rubbishes the argument. “There are several developers in the Chennai market and we are one of them. Besides, the distance between Hirco’s project in Oragadam and HoH’s township in OMR is more than 30 km, so where is the question of cannabilising? In fact, the projects will only ensure more brand visibility for the group.”


    Poor Kotak realty, they misjudged Chennai and HoH! They were right about Hirco though.

    This proves Oragadam and OMR are different markets with different dynamics, who knows, Hirco may strike gold 10 yrs from now just like HoH.

    Surendra has picked up land on OMR Road on the outskirts of Chennai, and Devanahalli outside Bengaluru. “We are not obsessed about return on investment or return on equity from day one. If we see there is an opportunity in the next 10 years we will jump into it. Profit may flow in late but it will follow for sure,” says Niranjan.


    Kudos to Surendra!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by din132
    I am surprised to see link for tamil language in this UK website - www.tfl.gov.uk


    I believe they have open source API (Google translate) . It doesn't look professional but good attempt. Thanks to SL expats.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by k11
    Yes, I agree people will find way out of this.

    I think that's is where CMDA could come in and help evaluating the construction. I know this sounds crazy.

    But they can set some rules like plots above 25L in value cannot have huts and need to have some kind of concrete structure of certain specification.
    Of course, they cannot prevent people buying 1 acre and building a small house. To fix this they need to limit residential land purchase to 0.5 acre or something for individuals, for developers and companies this should not be applicable.

    This will make an economic boom in construction (lot of jobs).
    This will make the suburbs pretty much rent free for poor people because there will be so much supply. Govt can forget about housing schemes for poor.


    Here is my list now, reworked to include the people who will misuse it.

    20% Stamp Duty for Vacant Land in Suburbs.
    POA disouraged for any RE deal. Registration with POA will attract 10% extra duty on top of 20%.

    5% Vacant Land Tax (in addition to property tax)

    Applicable to all residential plots in suburbs with GV greater than 1000/sqft which are not LIG/EWS housing from Govt. Far off areas like Walajah will not need to be included in this, it has to be metropolitan limits.

    Govt will collect tax for 5 years for everyone. If someone sells in between they lose the credit.

    After 5 years, Govt refunds the (tax collected + nominal interest),

    If there is a CMDA approved plan with a structure (we need some specification) then it will be refunded. It cannot be locked, someone has to live, need to a registered rental document to show that the property has not been empty for atleast 2.5 years.

    If land is bought by a commercial entity (or a Developer) they do not get refunds. They will bear the full cost.



    Most speculators will not bother to build anything as they will pay the 5% per year then worry about going around CMDA. They will also not care about 20% stamp duty.

    But what it will do is reduce the demand invariably. This will put a pin in the RE land bubble, values will automatically come down. Govt can raise a lot of money, they can use this for redevelopment. Even RE developers who hoard will pay maximum tax. If draconian laws are bought like this we might see some respite.


    What we need is regulation not govt management. We already have govt running business which is root cause for red tapism. The fundamental reason- people view RE as an safe investment. Unless this mindset is addressed, no amount of laws will suffice.

    Germany has close to 2/3rd of population living on rent. Thanks to Rent ceiling act with strong legal protection for tenants (http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Germany/Landlord-and-Tenant), there isn't much clamour to own property nor it appreciates wildly(one of the reasons you don't hear many German banks with sub-prime or toxic assets). I believe Scandinavia and even Manhattan has similar rent ceiling regulations.

    In UK it's bit different- there is strong association between wealth and property. Still you've good regulation on BTL (Buy to Let) mortgages. Now it's 25% as down payment but average rent yield will be close 4-6% and it's very decent return. Chennai prices for that matter any city in India prices will raise in tandem with inflation and lack of city planning. In Central london avg residential sq ft cost is 3000£ (Rs 2.6L/sq ft) so you can see the difference!
    CommentQuote
  • On a side note- personally i don't find Chennai RE market attractive. It needs correction plus good infra investment to justify present valuation. I had opportunity to visit recent HDFC's India Home fair here. I could clearly see bubble building up on RE prices . Some of the quotes received defies logic to me. Why would investor with any saner mind pay exobitant rates quoted with yield barely 1%.

    I'm re-thinking on my investment plan in Chennai as London looks affordable with amenities and rent yields. If I can't find decent property for let's say 2.5 Crs (350,000£) there's fundamental flaw here. If rent yield will be say 60,000-90,000 Rs/month, when EMI will be Rs 2.5L can't we see this investment lacks fundamental strategies. Not only you're pricing out end users but on the process long term investors as well.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Clairvoyant
    What we need is regulation not govt management. We already have govt running business which is root cause for red tapism. The fundamental reason- people view RE as an safe investment. Unless this mindset is addressed, no amount of laws will suffice.

    Germany has close to 2/3rd of population living on rent. Thanks to Rent ceiling act with strong legal protection for tenants (http://www.globalpropertyguide.com/Europe/Germany/Landlord-and-Tenant), there isn't much clamour to own property nor it appreciates wildly(one of the reasons you don't hear many German banks with sub-prime or toxic assets). I believe Scandinavia and even Manhattan has similar rent ceiling regulations.

    In UK it's bit different- there is strong association between wealth and property. Still you've good regulation on BTL (Buy to Let) mortgages. Now it's 25% as down payment but average rent yield will be close 4-6% and it's very decent return. Chennai prices for that matter any city in India prices will raise in tandem with inflation and lack of city planning. In Central london avg residential sq ft cost is 3000£ (Rs 2.6L/sq ft) so you can see the difference!



    I do not understand your post.
    If I read it correctly, you want rent ceilings like Germany but you want high rents like UK (last para).

    Rents are already very low in India. That itself is a good indirect subsidy for people, especially the poor.

    I am not saying govt should run RE business, but I am saying they should raise taxes on RE (Vacant Land) to pay for roads, buses, metros, etc.
    Free markets should rule. Govt should not get into anything.
    They should just sit and get a good % of profits for use in public projects.

    Price decrease because of govt taxes is just an indirect result.

    Rent controls are bad for economy.
    Google rent control in Bombay. There are so many dilapidated buildings with rent controls there.

    I grew up in a building like that. Take it from me, you do not want me to occupy your flat worth 2 crores and pay you govt rent (which is probably rs500) for 40 years.

    Rules are already tilted so much towards tenants, why make it even harder.


    I'm re-thinking on my investment plan in Chennai as London looks affordable with amenities and rent yields.
    Chennai is not London. India cannot be compared to western countries.
    RE is driven by demand and supply, not amenities. Rising income and Indians becoming affluent is a natural phenomenon in developing countries.
    Central London is 3000 pounds, Central Chennai is 300 pounds. Chennai has at least half the population of London but one tenth of the rate.
    CommentQuote