Hi Friends,

I had been to the FAIRPRO '09 Fair.My Impression after seeing, is that prices are stagnating for all ongoing projects and builders are trying hard to hold them up.

Prices are 10-20% lower for new projects in the pipeline and for ready to occupy flats.

The discount offered at the stall was very less and were in the range 150-500 Rs/sqft max.

For the benefit of fellow members I am posting the project/price details of some of the properties.



Akshaya Foundations

Adora - OMR - 3750/sqft
Aikya - Adyar - 12500/sqft

Alliance Group - Orchid Springs - 3199/sqft

Arihant Foundations

Heirloom - Thalumbur - 2499/sqft
Escapade - Thoraipakkam - 4150/sqft
Villa Viviana - Maramalai nagar - starting from 1 Crore

Asvini Foundations

Amarisa-phase1 - Ramapuram - 4500/sqft
Amarisa-phase2 - Ramapuram - 4250/sqft
Akshita - Madipakkam - 3800/sqft

Casa Grande

Riveira - Palikkarnai - 3450/sqft - before discount 3600/sqft
Silver Oak - Perungudi - 4300/sqft - before discount 4500/sqft
Madhuban - Madipakkam - 3300 /sqft - before discount 3500/sqft
Mylapore - R.K.salai - 12500/sqft
Plots
Ponmar -785/sqft - before discount 825/sqft
Maraimalainagar - 790/sqft - before discount 825/sqft

CeeDeeyes - Chenni Pattinam

Basic Rate - 1600/sqft All Inclusive - 2075/sqft

Chaitanya shanthiniketan

Sunnyvale - Ayanavaram - 4850/sqft
Serena - Rajkilpakkam - 2550/sqft
Gardenia - OMR - 1900/sqft
Green Park - Chitlapakkam - 3300/sqft

DLF

Gardencity - 3200/sqft - was told slash in prices expected in coming weeks.

Doshi Housing

Etopia I and II - Perungudi - 3895/sqft
Nakshatra - Tambaram - 2995/sqft - Completion May 2010
Tranquil - Velachery - 5500/sqft - Completion February 2010
Trinity park - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 3195/sqft - Completion April 2009
Serene Couny-Villas - Santhoshpuram,Vengaivasal - 2200,2600/sqft
LlanStephan - Chetpet - 9000/sqft - Completion May 2009
Sri Mahalakshmi - Ayanavaram - 4495/sqft - Ready to Occupy

ETA

Rosedale - OMR - 3100/sqft
Le Chalet - Villas - Sriperambudhur - 26 Lakhs - 37 Lakhs

Hiranandani Upscale - 4200/sqft

Hiranandani Palace Gardens - 3475/sqft

Indus Housing

anantya - Navalur,OMR - 2299/sqft + 400(other charges)
riviera villa - Navalur,OMR - 90 Lakhs onwards
habittera - urapakkam,GST - 2399/sqft + 400(other charges)
amber - Saidapet - 4750/sqft

Jain Housing

Ankush Prakas - Kilpauk - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Amrit Kailash - Strahns Road - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
La Gardenia - Nungabakkam - 7500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Ansruta - Valluvarkottam, nungabakkam - 10000/sqft - Ready to occupy
Antariska - Kodambakkam - 4500/sqft - Ready to occupy
Eiffel Garden - Vadapalani - 4250/sqft - Ready to occupy
Saagarika - M.R.C Nagar, sea facing - 10000/12500 - Ready to occupy
Green acres - Pallavaram - 3900/sqft - Ready to occupy
Abhishek - Selaiyur - 3500/sqft - Ready to occupy.

Jamals

Orchid - Palikkarnai - 3500/sqft
Palazzo - keelkattalai - 3700/sqft
Grandeur - Velappanchavadi(near saveetha dental college) - 3200/sqft

KGEYES

3 Projects on L.B.Road, Thiruvanmiyur - 6650/sqft
Delmare - Beach road,Thiruvanmiyur - 7000/sqft
Carolina - Velachery,Taramani - 4500/sqft
Swathi - Sastri Nagar,Adyar - 8500/sqft
Kalakshetra - 8000/sqft

Landmark Constructions

Tiara - Perungudi - 4000/sqft - Completion on August 2009
Aston Ville - Vadapalani - 5500 sqft - Completion on July 2009
Tudors Place - K.K.Nagar - 6500/sqft
The Address - Adyar - 11500/sqft
The Grange - Palavakkam - 7500/sqft
Cenralia - Chrompet - 2950/sqft - prelaunch
Gem Towers - AnnaNagar - To be launched.
Mahalakshmi Heights - Ashok Nagar - To be launched

L&T Estancia
Construction in Progress
1st-3rd Floor - 3950/sqft
4th -12 floor - floor rise charge of 20/sqft for each floor
13th - 17th - 4450/qft

L&T Eden Park - 3600/sqft

Mantri Synergy - OMR
2800/sqft - with 20/floor rise
Special offer - First Floor - all inclusive
1140 sqft - 33,67,000
870 sqft - 28,50,000

Navin Housing

Dayton Heights - Nelson Manickam road - 6500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 2nd floor
Subha Mangala - Ramapuram - 4200/sqft
Brookfield - Nanmangalam - 3500/sqft
Merrylands - Medavakkam - 3500/sqft

Olympia Opaline - 3441/sqft - spl budget flats available

PACE Builders

Anna nagar west - 4195/sqft - before discount 4495/sqft
Selaiyur - 3195/sqft - before discount 3495/sqft
Valasarvakkam - 2795/sqft - before discount 3295/sqft

PS Srijan

The Grand - Velachery - 5250 sqft - before discount 5500/sqft - Floor Rise applicable from 4th floor

Rajparis

Harmony - Medavakkam - 3100/sqft

Rajarathnam Constructions

RC Prince Gardenia - Perambur redhill road,Kolathur - 3600/sqft

Rajkham

Independant houses - Ayyapathangal - 2600/sqft

Real Value

Sai Skanda - Velachery - 4200/sqft
Sai Surya - Palikaranai - 3800/sqft
OMR opp SIPCOT - 13.20 Lakhs onwards

Shriram Properties

Trishakti - SIPCOT - 2750/sqft
Shankari - 1990/sqft

Sidharth foundations

Tulip - k.k.nagar west - 4800/sqft - completion march 2009
Natura - medavakkam - 3100 /sqft - completion july 2009
Visvaleela - Annanagar - 8500 /sqft - to be launched
Dakshin - Urapakkam - price TBD - to be launched
upcoming projects in porur, thoraipakkam, rajkeelpakkam, mogappair.

SIS

Safaa - Urappakam - 3150/sqft

SSPDL

Crescent - Kelambakkam - Vandalur Road - 2500/sqft
Upcoming 2 villa project one in OMR and one in Sriperambathur.

Sumanth & Co

Thiruvanmiyur - 6000/sqft
Besant Nagar - 11500/sqft

TVH

Lumbini square - Pursaiwalkam - 5500/sqft + 30/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Premium) - OMR,Padur - 3100,3200 + 25/sqft floor rise from 5th floor
Ouranya Bay(Budget) - 2bhk - 20 Lakhs
3bhk - 30 Lakhs
Ekanta - Coimbatore - 3100/sqft
Revata - Mogappair east - 4500/sqft
Kamya - K.K,Nagar - 7000/sqft
Metro Golden Nest - Sriperambathur - 1bhk - 15 Lakhs
2bhk - 22 Lakhs
3bhk - 28 Lakhs

VGN Group

Minerva - Mogappair,Nolumbur - 2975/sqft
3 in 1, 4 in 1 - 3800/sqft
Mahalakshmi Nagar,Thiruverkadu - 3500/sqft
Plots
Mugalivakkam - 52 Lakhs/grnd
Selaiyur - 50 Lakhs/grnd
SPKoil - 34 Lakhs/grnd
Katankulathur - 22-27 Lakhs/grnd

Yuga Homes

Shem Park - chemmenachery - 3300/sqft
Upcoming in Koyambedu, R.A.Puram(8000/sqft)



There are lots of properties and also lots of potential buyers.There is sure a sense of uncertainity among the builders and also the buyers on when to make the next move.It was evident that correction in RE prices have started to happen.

Requesting members to respond with their thoughts on the current trend.
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  • This question can never be answered unless someone who invested in plot and PBV around same time and managed to sell around same time, share their experience with us.
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  • @SR,

    Lets say you have 1 Cr in hand, would you buy 4 different plots in Ponmar or a single 4 ground plot in Ponmar or 1 ground plot priced 1 Cr in a different locality? I'm sure you would go for the last option right? Why, because the third option is easier to buy, manage and sell.

    While I agree localities like Ponmar and V-K road have given great returns for plots in the last 1 year, can we say the same for localities like Thoraipakkam or Madipakkam where plots are priced 1 Cr and above?

    As the ticket size increases, return % will decrease.

    You can't compare PBV apartment with ponmar or V-K plot. PBV should be compared with plots or localities of equivalent ticket size.
    CommentQuote
  • Plot vs Flat is going to be a never ending discussion.

    For an end user it all comes down to lifestyle, cash in hand, taking risk and time/effort, in most areas buying a plot and building an house is more expensive than buying an apt. So people end up at crossroads, either buy plot in interior area and build a house there or buy an apt off of main road in a more livable location. More often they choose the later in suburbs.

    For investors, it all comes down to returns. It all boils down to case by case.
    Everyone is starting to like OPM (Other Peoples Money).
    Staggered payment where the developer locks you in at low rate or you borrrow money at bank.

    Smart investors will always take lower returns on OPM than make higher returns on their money.

    I will put a real life example - myself.
    For me, I did not forsee the events, I was in luck. I never thought we would see such a rapid recovery.

    I bought an apt in 2010. I used bank loan as I did not want to disturb my other funding sources. I was well aware the interest rates are higher but I decided to go ahead with it. I borrowed 50% through bank, sold Indian shares when it hit 20K Sensex, that was 10%, raised remaining 20% by other loans, may be 20% by cash.

    Looking back, I think I should have borrowed more money, may be 80%. Home loan was the best decision I made. If you ask me why - because I was able to get better returns in other places.

    My ESPP rocketed (my company stock hit 10X from 2009 to now). We spun off on 2008 just before meltdown, we lost 60% of value in few months but now we are at 50% above the 2008 price and 900% above 2009 price with stock steadily rising - You can guess the amount of returns I would have made.
    My Retirement funds grew at 50+% in the last three years. I have a decent chunk for a guy in my age. I started contributing in 2006/7 but it was very small before, major contributions in the last 3 years. My pay went up 3X between this period, most of it in the last couple of years as my firm was making record profits.

    I liquidated most at early May and remaining last week. 100% in stable value funds.
    Nothing in the market now, except for some Indian big company stocks small amount for long term and some gold.

    So today I got 90% or so paper return of my apt in this period. The cash I did not deploy in the RE has got me even crazier returns, may be 400-500+%.

    Would have made more money putting in plots through 100% cash - I do not think so.

    You never know the power of opportunity cost. People do underestimate it a lot.

    I am not asking everyone to leverage up. I have just posted my experience.
    I was starting up and I do not have cash in crores. I had to do make some decisions but it turned out well.
    Just choose whatever works best for you.
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  • For me, I did not forsee the events, I was in luck.


    With above, there is no point in making a case from your story. If the downturn lasted 9-12 months more (as much a chance as your luck played a role) and few more bad events, your case would have been different - much much different.

    As much as you believe that people are underestimating the opportunity cost, you are grossly underestimating the risk you have exposed yourself to, just because it did not occur. The bad effect of how leverage can go bad in some circumstances can be seen in the market cap decimation/annihilation of Citibank/Lehman/BS/BofA. So, knowing the true risk of your leverage is complex and this is not a forum for it.

    Hence, to keep the matter simple, please focus on asset class performance without leverage to see the true potential of where each will stand. If you want to bring the interest cost for both (OPM), fair enough, you can add it for both. Your are bringing a specific case based on what you can avail as options, to paint a much broader picture on asset class performance which is meaningless. You got to be generic and neutral to options what one can avail, if one is comparing two different things to arrive at a conclusion.

    Mav
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  • Originally Posted by Love4land
    Ramki, all along you have been very firm in your belief that people who buy apartments are those who want to save time and money. I agree with former, but not latter. It is not true that people who are short of funds are the ones who buy apartments. Care to explain why these people buy apartments?



    Flats in premium Adyar project go for Rs 5 crore - Times Of India


    This is a old news...2008!!
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  • Originally Posted by Love4land
    @SR,

    You can't compare PBV apartment with ponmar or V-K plot. PBV should be compared with plots or localities of equivalent ticket size.


    Why not?

    It is just like you compared:

    1. an Unapproved troublesome Classic layout with Elcot Ave Flats.

    2. 15 Year old TNHB Sithalapakkam layout that does not have one flat/MSB project with 5 Year old Sholinganallur Layout.

    and you said "I cant accept that excuse"

    such orange to Jackfruit comparisions were OK when it suits you.

    How to forget your famous Guideline value comparison to compare growth of an area. That is legendary stuff.

    Why not some invester spend 1C and buy 4grounds in Ponmar or Royapa in view to build a small group of flats in the future and sell.

    Why should 1C person have to buy 1G in Thorapakkam?
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Economist
    Why not?

    It is just like you compared:

    1. an Unapproved troublesome Classic layout with Elcot Ave Flats.

    2. 15 Year old TNHB Sithalapakkam layout that does not have one flat/MSB project with 5 Year old Sholinganallur Layout.

    and you said "I cant accept that excuse"

    such to Jackfruit comparisions were OK when it suits you.


    Why not some invester spend 1C and buy 4grounds in Ponmar or Royapa in view to build a small group of flats in the future and sell.

    Why should 1C person have to buy 1G in Thorapakkam?


    Firstly larger sized plots are difficult to sell, SR will agree with me.

    Secondly buying 4 different plots at same time is very hard. You need to have 4 different people working on the ground at same time or you must have exceptional multi-tasking ability and dedicate 100% of your time on this.
    If you are buying 4 different plots in 4 different localities to diversify, it becomes even more monumental.
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  • Secondly buying 4 different plots at same time is very hard. You need to have 4 different people working on the ground at same time or you must have exceptional multi-tasking ability and dedicate 100% of your time on this.
    Eco, you should be careful in using figurative speech (Say 4 or 6 grounds) and look at above..LOL. It is good that you did not say 10 Grounds....you need to orient differently to have your point heard :). Objective format questions can help !
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  • Originally Posted by SRajagopalan
    Im surprised you are shocked to hear this, its been going on for years, first time i heard was in Springfield-Sharjapur Rd, Sadly the most exploitation is done by HOA/Presidents from TN, like it or not.
    Its a clear path, when the project is announced -early entry,form a google/yahoo grp, become active make site visits post updates, engage with builders and all along keep the group updated
    these folks move in first have edge over others, so in a better position to run for the post and get elected.
    they get so many inkind help from security firms doing the watchman contracts, electrical service contracts every where.
    now lets talk about numbers
    take prestige BV in chennai as an example -- rough numbers
    # of units = 2400 - appx
    Total sqft sold = avg it out = 800sqft per unit = 1920000Sqft total
    At 3Rs per sqft Monthly revenue = 57.6Lakhs
    Yearly revenue = 7C appx
    You be the judge now,
    I know folks who literally cover more than 50% of their monthly EMI through their post some even at 100% yet thats drop in bucket when you see 25 to 30K in a 58L revenue.
    We all are good in accounting boss, its nothing to hide in line items.
    But the real shock is there is a system of practice that goes behind in securing such positions
    L4L's example of his dad and yes my dad lives in an apartment and runs all maintenace work, electrical, motor, sump pump etc is good for smaller developments with # of units in 100s ,
    but when we talk about 1000unit+ MSB the old retired thaathas are not going to cut it


    Even though I don't dispute figures, but it is gross exaggeration. Generally maintenance- managed block and association wise and the numbers we are talking isn't huge as projected. Let's say 100 flats in a block with average maintenance of 2k/flat works out 2L/month.

    Solution is simple- way forward it will be professionally managed / concierge services. Let's look at solution rather than write-off the model. Whether we like it not- it is going to be the way forward and will be optimised. Secondly we don't value time, do we? One of the major point for leakage- we don't pay for services, even if we do, not hourly and demand accountability.
    CommentQuote
  • I'm trying to finalize my property value. Its in Villivakkam and on Thirumangalam road ( on the road itself). Its just 100 metres away from Anna Nagar railway station.
    Its a 2BHK of 980 sft in a gated community and is 11+ years old. I've been hearing different rates from brokers and friends ranging from 5K to 10K per sft (which is a huge variation). I tried to find the reason for the huge difference.
    This is what I heard from people quoted around 5K, Villivakkam rates are sound 4.5 to 6K/sft. People quoted 10K said due to its proximity to Anna Nagar West and UDS is around 65% of the flat size, which is really huge when compared to other projects.

    Can experts through some light on this?

    Thanks in advance.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Love4land
    @SR,

    Lets say you have 1 Cr in hand, would you buy 4 different plots in Ponmar or a single 4 ground plot in Ponmar or 1 ground plot priced 1 Cr in a different locality? I'm sure you would go for the last option right? Why, because the third option is easier to buy, manage and sell.

    While I agree localities like Ponmar and V-K road have given great returns for plots in the last 1 year, can we say the same for localities like Thoraipakkam or Madipakkam where plots are priced 1 Cr and above?

    As the ticket size increases, return % will decrease.

    You can't compare PBV apartment with ponmar or V-K plot. PBV should be compared with plots or localities of equivalent ticket size.



    To answer your question head on
    if i have 1 crore this is what i will be doing
    1 -2 grounds in Ponmar and Melakottayur
    1 ground in West Tambaram
    1 ground around kelambakkam OMR junction

    I wont pick any of the options given - certainly not the last option
    As i had said in my earlier post, buying large extent or a large ticket size property is one of the night mare i want to avoid , it was my lesson learnt.

    I never compare PBV with plot on VK, my point is though the 4800 ( my friends entry point) to 6100 ( 1300rs over 1800 sqft = 23L) is a good appreciation in the 2 year of its making. the charges around corp fund, car parking, regn charges, ST, VAT on CLP payments etc erode the gains and at the end you will have a net of less than 5L ,im not making up these numbers please refer my excel - this is from a buyer who got in at 4800.
    Im not even factoring cost of money for your payments which are calendar based and not milestone based in PBV
    In land i have multiple options but my options wont apply to you, i can settle a seller and flip, i can take a power and flip or do a sale deed in a layout where there is a vast difference between GV and selling price
    example - Ponmar = GV/SP = 700 / 1200-1400
    that creates opportunities
    The moment GV becomes 1100 here i wont speculate as it will slow down transactions
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Love4land
    Firstly larger sized plots are difficult to sell, SR will agree with me.

    Secondly buying 4 different plots at same time is very hard. You need to have 4 different people working on the ground at same time or you must have exceptional multi-tasking ability and dedicate 100% of your time on this.
    If you are buying 4 different plots in 4 different localities to diversify, it becomes even more monumental.


    Actually thats precisely what i did, i spaced my buys, learnt the local market made good relationships with field brokers (not office vyabaris) established trust and they work for me as they smell returns for their time invested and present deals, on top of that i have some local network who oversee them.
    Even today when folks in this forum are discussing 1300rs for selva nagar, i get 1150-1200rs for VPnagar on 40 ft roads with excellent facing - Cruise and LL will agree these are 10% less than market price.
    The key is the ability to consumate the transaction fast and quick and put out the need of the seller in crunch/need.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Clairvoyant
    Even though I don't dispute figures, but it is gross exaggeration. Generally maintenance- managed block and association wise and the numbers we are talking isn't huge as projected. Let's say 100 flats in a block with average maintenance of 2k/flat works out 2L/month.

    Solution is simple- way forward it will be professionally managed / concierge services. Let's look at solution rather than write-off the model. Whether we like it not- it is going to be the way forward and will be optimised. Secondly we don't value time, do we? One of the major point for leakage- we don't pay for services, even if we do, not hourly and demand accountability.


    CV actually its not exaggeration its a bit of understatement, Prestige BV annual revenue will be in the tune of 7.5C, i know for a matter of fact - very close friend of mine is putting all ducks in row to run for the president post.
    But he is genuine and wants to get into the position before crooks take over.
    he was the president in sobha in bangalore near salapuria as well after ousting a corrupt president
    In india we have this thing for not willing to pay for professional help on any thing, whether its financial planning, resdiential brokerage, legal check up for documents etc to name a few
    So the association will say its only 5 hours worth of work why to pay exorbitant fees for it. as a matter of fact a few US returns from my network who did RE here went and started property management company in chennai and tried this business model, but most builder associations have their own reservations, when you go attack the owners after the first year, they are all suspicious about your intentions even though they do a piss poor job managing it.
    So its not easy to penetrate although i have my interest in it and its a great business model to integrate People process software systems tools together and provide a packaged services for 200+ MSB for a marginal cost
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by SRajagopalan
    Im surprised you are shocked to hear this, its been going on for years, first time i heard was in Springfield-Sharjapur Rd, Sadly the most exploitation is done by HOA/Presidents from TN, like it or not.
    Its a clear path, when the project is announced -early entry,form a google/yahoo grp, become active make site visits post updates, engage with builders and all along keep the group updated
    these folks move in first have edge over others, so in a better position to run for the post and get elected.
    they get so many inkind help from security firms doing the watchman contracts, electrical service contracts every where.
    now lets talk about numbers
    take prestige BV in chennai as an example -- rough numbers
    # of units = 2400 - appx
    Total sqft sold = avg it out = 800sqft per unit = 1920000Sqft total
    At 3Rs per sqft Monthly revenue = 57.6Lakhs
    Yearly revenue = 7C appx
    You be the judge now,
    I know folks who literally cover more than 50% of their monthly EMI through their post some even at 100% yet thats drop in bucket when you see 25 to 30K in a 58L revenue.
    We all are good in accounting boss, its nothing to hide in line items.
    But the real shock is there is a system of practice that goes behind in securing such positions
    L4L's example of his dad and yes my dad lives in an apartment and runs all maintenace work, electrical, motor, sump pump etc is good for smaller developments with # of units in 100s ,
    but when we talk about 1000unit+ MSB the old retired thaathas are not going to cut it



    As per page-23 of this link, the total PBV size is 5 million sqft (Prestige has 60% interest in the JV): http://www.prestigeconstructions.com/investors/pdf/q4-fy-2012-investor-presentation.pdf

    So your calculations need to be slightly updated by 2.5x factor.


    As per page-25 of this, PBV has achieved total sale of 822.8 crores so far (probably share for just the 60% JV interest of Prestige):
    http://www.prestigeconstructions.com/investors/pdf/q4-fy-2013-investor-presentation.pdf

    If you compare with Q3-FY13 presentation, the sales on PBV during Q4 FY13 has been about 50 crores only.


    Personally, I don't mind paying up to 10% of the maintenance fee for the management to run it.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by s.sath
    As per page-23 of this link, the total PBV size is 5 million sqft (Prestige has 60% interest in the JV): http://www.prestigeconstructions.com/investors/pdf/q4-fy-2012-investor-presentation.pdf

    So your calculations need to be slightly updated by 2.5x factor.


    As per page-25 of this, PBV has achieved total sale of 822.8 crores so far (probably share for just the 60% JV interest of Prestige):
    http://www.prestigeconstructions.com/investors/pdf/q4-fy-2013-investor-presentation.pdf

    If you compare with Q3-FY13 presentation, the sales on PBV during Q4 FY13 has been about 50 crores only.


    Personally, I don't mind paying up to 10% of the maintenance fee for the management to run it.


    Thanks i know my sqft calculations was wrong hence i conservatively figured it,also the end maintenance may only be 2.5rs per sqft im hearing
    Im not a buyer so real buyers can update regardless, 7C to 10C association revenue if not managed professionally will cause wasteful spending, kickbacks, free favors, corruption is my point
    i have no doubt that it will be case. Once the vendors get a smell of the association they will start to pay "visits" with gifts this is very usual
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