Ooops, dont curse me for appearing too fast. Just had a thought and so decided to share it, just the weekend free time banter. No more. I am not going to argue about it.

I have been noticing folks continue to beseige Indian RE using Global euphemisms, talking about Deflation when they themselves dont understand what it is and then Wise talking about return to 60s and 70s. Frankly to me my childhood days were wonderful. I wont mind the 70s. I dont need a cell. I need LIFE to LIVE. So if that is depression or deflation, I hope we go there!

Anyway forget about my reactive banter. Let me come to the original chatter. During 2003 to 2009 salaries have gone up so much. Now what happened to this money. Let me not bother about those 25 somethings of 2003 who saw 20K suddenly and decided to booze it to death. Some of these bought luxury homes thinking they have become rich (not realising what is real worth of their money and surprising Wise is talking about real worth suddenly, something he did not know for all these months I was on this board; maybe he is taking EC101 course somewhere...good for him!).

I want to talk about the host of folks who were aged around 35 to 40 in 2003.

Now most of the better ones among this age group were picking up around 5L to 10L in 2003. I am talking about SW managers and not the TOP ones like me (I was picking a multiple of this in 2003!) nor the government folks. I was picking a multiple of this in 2003! Now these guys have moved from that 7.5L (average of 5 and 10) to a value of about 20 to 25L (average 22.5L).
Now in 6 years let us assume they had a linear growth for simplicity. So their average salary was (22.5+7.5)/2=15L. With 15L, suppose they paid 4L tax, 1L other paycuts, 3L to live, they would have save 7L. Even the violent spenders among them would have saved 5L. Over 6 years they must have save about 5x6 to 7x6 i.e., 30L to 42L. Top it with interests which will make it about 35L to 50L.
Let us assume 2 sets of these folks. Ones that took a loan and bought a property say in the middle year, i.e. 2005-6. They would not have saved this amount but must have spent all this money paying EMIs foolishly to some god damn banker. They have a home which they claim is theirs, but actually belongs to the lending bank!

Take the second type who literally saved this money. They have 35L to 50L in hand. Now if property prices do fall wont these folks come in and buy at the fall? So there is a lot of money swishing in the system, just that greed made prices shoot up too fast and fear is making Wisemen and his bear cartel write here negatively. Both are part of human MISBEHAVIOUR!

So how much can anything fall. The minute the property in 2005-6 let us say bought by one such 40 year old went from say the 30L level then to 80L level in 2008, the one who onl saved cash was sobbing. Now if it falls to even 70L that guy with his 35 to 50L in hand will come cashing in on it! Wont he? Just needs to take a bit more as loan and now this loan will look small given his higher salary!

In other words lots of REAL MONEY has come into the Indian system unlike US where salaries did not go up the way it did in India. While Indian salaries went up almost 5 times in US salaries moved up their normal 5 to 10% CAGR. Now this fact is promptly missed by Wiseman and many of those US RE writers on this forum. They just dont have enough brains to understand it, I suspect!?

Another point that I noticed today was that someone mentioning that Bangalore flats have fallen in prices and that Bangaloreans learn fast.(The frog example shows the brains of the writer mimics the ambhibian!) That is a joke. I have said this a million times before but with deaf years and idiotic brains around I am having to repeat it. The FSI used in BLR is about 3 to 4. So flats in Bangalore in similar areas were relatively 2 to 3 times cheaper than in Chennai almost always. So in Malleswaram even at the peak Flats cost 7K psft. In Mylapore or TNagar they were at 15 to 20Kpsft. The Mantri tower in the heart of Bangalore cost 6crores for 6000sqft but an year + ago in Nungambakkam (I forget the name ... it was Life or something abstract like that!) was costing 5Cr for 2500sqft.

In other words in Chennai the only way to reduce FLAT PRICES is by increasing FSI or turning a blind eye to violators like in BLR. Also the number of floors has to be increased. In Bangalore any silly area with any road size will have 3 floors to 4 floors with Stilt, not 2 floors like in Chennai. So the person telling me that I talk about Land and others about Flats and hence there is a "fight" is incorrect. Land determines the price of a flat. Land is the Least Common Multiple. (Please refer to ABK writing about cost of building materials not falling!) So land price in Mylapore and Malleswaram has to be similar, in Boat Club and Sadashivanagar has to be similar and lo and behold they are very identical. However flat prices are not; in these same area pairs.

Let me just sign off by stating that one should realise that with lots of money waiting on the wings the RE fall is just a correction as far as India is concerned. Now if Indian economy sinks and we have recession and we have 60s and 70s coming and so on...all the gloomy stories are sold then if you buy those stories, then you should not buy a property, just stay in a rented place.

Let me tell you. Whether it is Growth phase or Recession phase, whether it was 70s, 80s, 90s or 2000s. It is ALWAYS CHEAPER TO LIVE IN A RENTED FLAT, however people want to OWN, not live as a slave in someone else's house from where you can be thrown out! Also inflation causes rents to go up and if you have your own home u dont have to pay for the inflation. (BTW I had a relative who continued to live in Malleswaram in a rented flat for years after retirement but then he was lucky to have a son in law who got him a flat to live...or he would be in deep trouble thanks to inflation!...this is in 80s to now!)

Finally a piece of advice to the KIDDOS in their 20s! You havent become any better than the kiddos of 70s and 80s. Honestly your REAL WORTH or REAL INCOME (Ask Wisey to define it for you!) is actually lower. So your dads kiddos; were much better off than you are with same brain levels! Explains why I always show a condescending look at the lakh and oneth Engineer from TN. He is always behind 1lakh guys just in TN and so maybe 30lakhs from India. So he is just an ALSO RAN, not the winner and he does not deserve more than the ALSO RANs of 70s, 80s and 90s.
Remember the Winner takes it all in Soc ialism or in Capitalism, just that who is the Winner is redefined in various situations differently.

Adios.
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  • Incidentally as I signed off, I returned after seeing an advt in 99acres. 7cr (Seven Crores) for a 4500sqft apartment in Alwarpet. Those who are talking about recession and DONT SPEND A CRORE need to bite their tongues off. Incidentally Mr Wise himself wanted to sell his RK Salai slum property for 2.5cr and feels bad if other sell better pieces for 2cr.
    In other words, leave bearish overtones on this board. They are written by those who want prices to fall. While as ABK said above, it will be sooner than later that people will have to buy, this will avoid them from facing another 2004 when suddenly all they wanted to buy had disappeared in thin air.
    I suspect there is a massive buildup before a fast upmove in the property market and if you did not buy today, maybe in Dec 2009 you will get the same property for twice the price. WHO KNOWS?
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  • Originally Posted by ks2071746
    Dear friends,

    All the follwoing are true and are happening.
    01) The prices are coming down fast- in some areas-city outskirts.
    02) The prices have down to some what- in some areas- inside city areas
    03) The prices do not go up and remain- in some good areas with in city
    04) These are days any buyer will have to negotiate hard.
    ks2071746

    Some are true, others are not.
    The buyer has to negotiate and very hard at that.
    Earlier builders used to treat buyers like dirt. Either buy NOW at MY price or get lost.
    Now, seeing that buyers have gotten lost (!), they are willing to come down slightly from their pedestal.
    But, some are still arrogant and refuse to consider the possibility they may have to suffer no profit.
    For instance:
    1) Akshaya Homes in OMR, Siruseri, when i went to look at the property, the guy there did not let me in, until i told him my budget. He then said, his(!) flat costs 4700/- SqFt and will cost me 72 Lacs for a 3 BHK. I told him to get lost and offered 3000/- Max over tele. There are about 13 flats lying vacant in their well-maintained property for past one year. I saw NRI's and even some foreigners willing to buy, but at lower prices...
    2) In KK Nagar, i asked a builder for price reduction of a flat he had built one year ago. He quoted 7500/ Sq Ft. and said he will NOT reduce price even by one rupee as his costs were high. He also said he was willing to let the flat lie idle even for one more year until he gets the price he wants...
    3) In Valasaravakkam, one builder oppposite Ceebros offers luxury flats at 4400/- Sq.Ft ! And that too his property is located about half-kilometer off the Arcot road. He is perfectly willing to negotiate, as long as we pay 4400/- per Sq.Ft (in others words you can have any color of car you want as long as its black).
    4) In madipakkam, Ramaniyam (reputed builders), are willing to negotiate a little bit from their offering of 4000/-Sq.Ft. Don't know how much, but that at least they are willing to negotiate.
    CommentQuote
  • Ads are not giving true relections.

    You will find repeated ads for several months with no takers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by freedomIndia
    Some are true, others are not.
    The buyer has to negotiate and very hard at that.
    Earlier builders used to treat buyers like dirt. Either buy NOW at MY price or get lost.
    Now, seeing that buyers have gotten lost (!), they are willing to come down slightly from their pedestal.
    But, some are still arrogant and refuse to consider the possibility they may have to suffer no profit.
    For instance:
    1) Akshaya Homes in OMR, Siruseri, when i went to look at the property, the guy there did not let me in, until i told him my budget. He then said, his(!) flat costs 4700/- SqFt and will cost me 72 Lacs for a 3 BHK. I told him to get lost and offered 3000/- Max over tele. There are about 13 flats lying vacant in their well-maintained property for past one year. I saw NRI's and even some foreigners willing to buy, but at lower prices...
    2) In KK Nagar, i asked a builder for price reduction of a flat he had built one year ago. He quoted 7500/ Sq Ft. and said he will NOT reduce price even by one rupee as his costs were high. He also said he was willing to let the flat lie idle even for one more year until he gets the price he wants...
    3) In Valasaravakkam, one builder oppposite Ceebros offers luxury flats at 4400/- Sq.Ft ! And that too his property is located about half-kilometer off the Arcot road. He is perfectly willing to negotiate, as long as we pay 4400/- per Sq.Ft (in others words you can have any color of car you want as long as its black).
    4) In madipakkam, Ramaniyam (reputed builders), are willing to negotiate a little bit from their offering of 4000/-Sq.Ft. Don't know how much, but that at least they are willing to negotiate.

    If in Siruseri a guy can ask 4700 psft then in Valasaravakkam why will any fool quote lesser and then give a discount? Instead of Siruseri one can live in Ooty or Kodaikanal!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by lovebird
    Ads are not giving true relections.

    You will find repeated ads for several months with no takers

    So u have decided to leave the board after trying to woo me to be your guru. Not getting paid by WIsey regularly? ROTFL.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    So u have decided to leave the board after trying to woo me to be your guru. Not getting paid by WIsey regularly? ROTFL.

    A few months back many of the bear cartel on this board used to explain that RE market has fallen not because price of Land fell, as it did not. Not even because price of Flats fell a bit. They used RE Company stocks as if their business meant everything to RE and that their stock prices falling meant RE prices (implying Land and Flat) prices will fall. Though I think that is frivilous, I think going by their own grandeur thoughts I must now ask them if RE prices have gone over the roofs now!
    Do you know that DLF prices have moved from 150 to almost 450 now. Three times. DOES IT NOT MEAN DEAR BEARS (SETHUGM, BIGBEAR and ofcourse darling WISEY) THAT PRICE OF RE IN CHENNAI MUST HAVE GONE UP THREE TIMES IN THE PAST 4 MONTHS. So Wiseys cheri land in RK Salai which was not finding buyers at 65L can now go for 1.95L, right?
    Appreciate a sensible answer!
    PS. Strong do you want my ECR land at 6crores now! ROTFL!!!
    CommentQuote
  • Errr ...

    Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    A few months back many of the bear cartel on this board used to explain that RE market has fallen not because price of Land fell, as it did not. Not even because price of Flats fell a bit. They used RE Company stocks as if their business meant everything to RE and that their stock prices falling meant RE prices (implying Land and Flat) prices will fall. Though I think that is frivilous, I think going by their own grandeur thoughts I must now ask them if RE prices have gone over the roofs now!
    Do you know that DLF prices have moved from 150 to almost 450 now. Three times. DOES IT NOT MEAN DEAR BEARS (SETHUGM, BIGBEAR and ofcourse darling WISEY) THAT PRICE OF RE IN CHENNAI MUST HAVE GONE UP THREE TIMES IN THE PAST 4 MONTHS. So Wiseys cheri land in RK Salai which was not finding buyers at 65L can now go for 1.95L, right?
    Appreciate a sensible answer!
    PS. Strong do you want my ECR land at 6crores now! ROTFL!!!


    But DLF shares are still selling at 50% discount to last years price. Are you saying Chennai prices has crashed by the same amount ?

    Look before you leap.
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  • Originally Posted by connect2sam
    But DLF shares are still selling at 50% discount to last years price. Are you saying Chennai prices has crashed by the same amount ?

    Look before you leap.

    Well did I ever mentioned I agreed with the logic? It is folks like you who use such erratic logic and I was only highlighting your views.
    BTW since DLF prices fell to almost 20% of their prices, you bear fools were suggesting that RE prices will fall to 20% of their prices. Just think how sane a possibility it is?
    All this brings out the total emptiness of grey matter among many of the bears on this board including you!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    Well did I ever mentioned I agreed with the logic? It is folks like you who use such erratic logic and I was only highlighting your views.
    BTW since DLF prices fell to almost 20% of their prices, you bear fools were suggesting that RE prices will fall to 20% of their prices. Just think how sane a possibility it is?
    All this brings out the total emptiness of grey matter among many of the bears on this board including you!


    Grrr ... Speaking is different from writing. You can add intonation while speaking and leave an observer with write impression. Writing is literal. Read it again, people can take your sentence differently.

    Ever looked around and think you could be wrong ? Never mind, I am digressing now.
    CommentQuote
  • Looks like u were always digressing! Hmm!
    CommentQuote
  • Approved Land

    I am giving below a link to a Hindu article years ago.
    ]http://www.hindu.com/pp/2006/12/17/stories/2006121700100300.htm

    It tells you why you should be careful while buying land. Let me paste a few lines from that article


    Think before buying a land
    Many people, including most of the banks, are not aware of the details of approved layouts and the powers of officials in sanctioning building plan.

    No other local body officials, including Corporation Commissioner, Municipal Commissioner, Executive Officer of town panchayat and president of village panchayat, can approve the layout on their own. In the case of town panchayat and village panchayat people tend to believe there is provision for panchayat approved layout. It is wrong. The layout approved by the Executive Officer of town panchayat or the president of village panchayat on their own, is illegal and will be considered an unauthorised layout. There is no term as `panchayat approval'.

    Please note the term. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PANCHAYAT APPROVAL. So on ECR most of the land is essentially not worth buying even for a song. The only layouts I know of in this area which are approved are Kandaswamy nagar and Palkalai nagar.


    Classification of lands
    House constructions can be made only if the land is classified as residential. Only the Government is empowered to classify / reclassify the usage of lands.
    If the layout is approved by the LPA, the approval is only for residential purpose. For sub-division of agricultural land, approval is not necessary from planning authorities. But, if the land is developed and used for other than agriculture, then approval has to be obtained from the planning authorities.

    Note details on Agricultural land. Read the rest in the link and dont ever go and buy UNAPPROVED LAND. U can as well throw your money into a well instead or give me the money and I will give you land in moon or in the sea! LOL!
    CommentQuote
  • Generally people pay penalties to regularise these iiregularities. The famous delhi sealings. This emboldens the people to brazenly flout rules and regulations.

    Methinks : rules r meant to c that few people only r really knowledgeable and these can then exploit hand in glove with officials.

    Transparency is another issue, notice land record r still to be computerised in India. Manipulation is the order of the day.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Sansei
    Generally people pay penalties to regularise these iiregularities. The famous delhi sealings. This emboldens the people to brazenly flout rules and regulations.

    Methinks : rules r meant to c that few people only r really knowledgeable and these can then exploit hand in glove with officials.

    Transparency is another issue, notice land record r still to be computerised in India. Manipulation is the order of the day.

    Your argument is well taken. However for a person who is willing to manipulate, my advice is not required. I am telling this to genuine buyers of land, meaning normal U and I sort of guys, not Sharks!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    I am giving below a link to a Hindu article years ago.
    ]http://www.hindu.com/pp/2006/12/17/stories/2006121700100300.htm

    It tells you why you should be careful while buying land. Let me paste a few lines from that article


    Think before buying a land
    Many people, including most of the banks, are not aware of the details of approved layouts and the powers of officials in sanctioning building plan.

    No other local body officials, including Corporation Commissioner, Municipal Commissioner, Executive Officer of town panchayat and president of village panchayat, can approve the layout on their own. In the case of town panchayat and village panchayat people tend to believe there is provision for panchayat approved layout. It is wrong. The layout approved by the Executive Officer of town panchayat or the president of village panchayat on their own, is illegal and will be considered an unauthorised layout. There is no term as `panchayat approval'.

    Please note the term. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS PANCHAYAT APPROVAL. So on ECR most of the land is essentially not worth buying even for a song. The only layouts I know of in this area which are approved are Kandaswamy nagar and Palkalai nagar.


    Classification of lands
    House constructions can be made only if the land is classified as residential. Only the Government is empowered to classify / reclassify the usage of lands.
    If the layout is approved by the LPA, the approval is only for residential purpose. For sub-division of agricultural land, approval is not necessary from planning authorities. But, if the land is developed and used for other than agriculture, then approval has to be obtained from the planning authorities.

    Note details on Agricultural land. Read the rest in the link and dont ever go and buy UNAPPROVED LAND. U can as well throw your money into a well instead or give me the money and I will give you land in moon or in the sea! LOL!
    I thought in this new bull phase I will reenforce the fact that documentation is essential for land purchase and unapproved land is worthless.
    PS. View the posts above detailing the same.
    I thought in this new bull phase I will reenforce the fact that documentation is essential for land purchase and unapproved land is worthless.
    PS. View the posts above detailing the same.
    I thought in this new bull phase I will reenforce the fact that documentation is essential for land purchase and unapproved land is worthless.
    PS. View the posts above detailing the same.
    I thought in this new bull phase I will reenforce the fact that documentation is essential for land purchase and unapproved land is worthless.
    PS. View the posts above detailing the same.
    CommentQuote