The bears who have been writing all sorts of sad sob stories are slowly disappearing. Market is not falling, rather consolidating and going up! Think of Rs 4200psft for a silly flat in Siruseri (some 30km from civilization).
Notice Wiseman sulking and disappearing leaving behind just his lovebirds and jalras. Notice a contra trying to talk bull all of a sudden.
Look at Nabhishek expecting a move up even though subtley.

Notice Nifty going up, (though it will fall once more before any clarity emerges), notice people with bank wads wanting to buy before the next upmove which may make the current upmove look like NOTHING. I mean in RE.

Finally you will have a lot of sellers of today wailing next year when they realize that they were bigger fools than those who sold land in 2004 and saw their land appreciate 6 to 10 times by 2008.

Notice inflation in reality whatever the silly government might say. Rice was Rs 19 a kg even an year ago. Now at Rs 40 a kg. It all means that inflation will push up prices. If rice can become double, why not RE? If salaries can go up 5 times between 2003 and 2008 why not RE. All the bear writers on this board whatever funny names they have (one calling himself Wise and never proved even a bit of that!) never managed to prove that market will fall. For that matter it never fell. They will rejoice telling IT WILL FALL and they have typed the same futuristic message for almost an year now and yet it has not fallen, AND IT IS RISING IN POCKETS.
What does it mean? The bear cartel had a vested interest in getting their NRI brethren to buy land cheap! Fools sold their land for a song in 2008 and they will know how foolish they were in an year or two like the sellers of 2004 did in 2006-08. Some wrote bearish because they did not know anything about markets. Now whether a particular person did bear writing for which reason is anyone's guess. So we can pardon WIseman for his ignorance but not for his arrogance. Even after falling he claims that his moustache does not have a grain of sand (kizhe vizhunthalum meesaiyile man ottale). He yet talks bearish after 1 full year of WILL FALL and it is just NOT FALLING. Future tense to Present Continous.

So those of you who were planning to sell, beware. You may be in for a bear trap. And those who want to buy, well as one person said, the prices shoot up suddenly as the builders know it prior to many and if they are jacking up prices they probably have the clue.

In summary it looks like the CONSOLIDATION PHASE OF THE REALESTATE BULL MARKET SEEMS TO BE COMING TO AN END. Now I suspect we are tipping in for the next big upmove and if it does it will make the 2003 to 2008 upmove look really silly. So if you missed a mylapore flat for Rs 1500 a square foot in 2003 and now need to buy at a higher rate even in Siruseri, you might have to think of buying flats in reasonably far away places at Rs 10K to Rs 20K per square foot. So Chennai will be priced like Bombay and if you sold land today, I bet you wont be able to buy that ever again in your life.
Cheers.
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  • The difference is speculation ...

    Originally Posted by contra
    Panther,

    First of all, your analysis of comparing India to US was a wrong conclusion. In the US everyone has a car, big car or small car how many more they can buy? In India lot of people don't have a car. If you want to sell cars where would you go? Same goes for real estate.

    However a big fall that too in Indian real estate where their is so much enthusiasm to enter ( even the extreme bear in India has a secret wish, love of owning real estate at good locality in nice place like Bangalore or Chennai or Pune etc) will not happen. Fall may happen in outskirts by 30% where the rise was primarily because of IT parks, but within the city if you talk about T nagar Chennai it will stagnate only and rise. My favourite area in Chennai is Egmore, the oldest good locality in the heart of Chennai, the interesting point there are not many sellers in Egmore no body seems to be interested to sell there.



    There are many arguments on both sides and this becomes an endless debate. In my view the most important characteristic is the intent behind the majority of purchases.

    Here's what I mean. Back in the old days growth in prices of realty was relatively stable and therefore there was this story builtup that RE never ever declines, which, by the way was true. At the same time it was forgotten that RE was never a speculative asset (for the vast majority) and it was usually a once-in-a-lifetime purchase done at a fairly late stage in life after accumulating hard-earned money after a lifetime of struggle.

    Today, things have changed dramatically. There are many more options to make huge amounts of money. And a lot of this money gets channeled into RE. But this is not the major mover of RE prices. Rather its the birth of the speculative nature of the majority of buyers - you and I - assisted by loose credit policies. This makes normally conservative people get crazy with greed (200% gain in 2 years and lets buy one for stay and another for investment) and fear (if we don't buy it now it will run away for ever and become unaffordable). In fact the latest Orange Ad (obviously they are jokers) which goes, "buy 1 flat and get one free. Sell the second flat and get the first one free". Imbeciles!!! :D

    Anyways, this mob speculative phenomenon is the one which started the boom-bust cycles in RE as well. The boom got over in 2008. The bust is just beginning. Anyone who is using our father's generation logic of RE never goes down should also try to buy at our father's generation prices - which is about 30% of current prices? :D

    And Contra, why can prices not fall to 2004 prices? Anything can happen since globally we are in uncharted territory and no one knows where all this will end up. I believe that, over time, the squeeze-release cycles will take prices gradually lower till we see substantially lower prices - the reversal to the mean. Even now, its only people swapping existing property at make-believe prices (like Nats who is a reluctant seller and me, who is an enthusiastic seller). There is not much new money coming into RE, which is the actual pointer to the dramatic fall in volumes. Obviously, there are millions of new-money buyers. Only thing is, they are mostly waiting for prices to tumble and credit terms to return to easy-money days (which, even if it comes back, will take a long time given this credit destruction cycle). So, do expect prices to tumble. But in slow motion, not to suit anyone's personal timeframe of an year or two. You are free to buy. If you are willing to hold on for a few years or even more than a decade to start seeing real returns.

    Enjoy the ride.

    cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by contra
    Panther,

    First of all, your analysis of comparing India to US was a wrong conclusion. In the US everyone has a car, big car or small car how many more they can buy? In India lot of people don't have a car. If you want to sell cars where would you go? Same goes for real estate.

    Moreover banks is US are getting bailouts after much losses so can't lend for real estate or cars. In India banks have good capital. Even after RBI reduced interest rates, SBI froze interest rates at 10% for RE, institutions like HDFC are still holding on to existing interest rates and are not likely to reduce rates very much. HDFC which has 30 years experience in India real estate market and the oldest housing finance company here refuses to freeze interest rates like SBI. HDFC know about the RE situation in India better then anyone.

    In our country, there are a lot of people who want to buy a home, individual house, land, apartments. Developers and more importantly Bankers know that.

    Of course the spectacular rise we saw from 2003-08 may not repeat or might just repeat who knows. However there will be no fall back to 2004 levels like someone said. Prices may or may not have another spectacular rise, but will not fall either and may just stagnate and rise slowly. But it is better to buy now or 2010, suddenly after some more stagnation there could be another big rise for a few years in RE.

    However a big fall that too in Indian real estate where their is so much enthusiasm to enter ( even the extreme bear in India has a secret wish, love of owning real estate at good locality in nice place like Bangalore or Chennai or Pune etc) will not happen. Fall may happen in outskirts by 30% where the rise was primarily because of IT parks, but within the city if you talk about T nagar Chennai it will stagnate only and rise. My favourite area in Chennai is Egmore, the oldest good locality in the heart of Chennai, the interesting point there are not many sellers in Egmore no body seems to be interested to sell there.

    HDFC chairman told way back in 2007 that RE has to come down by around 30% for the demand to pickup.So going by oldest housing finance company rate should come down by more than 50% from peak.
    CommentQuote
  • What happens to bear followers?

    Just think of those who shorted the stock market with Nifty at 2500. There were so many screaming that market will fall to 2100. Not that it wont! However now if you had sold at 2500 how do you feel as Nifty is hovering at 3400?
    This is exactly what happens if you follow the foolish bears on this board and sell your property for a song. Needless to say more!
    Bears confuse genuine buyers and dont let them buy when prices are low and confuse investors into selling when prices are low.
    Beware the bear cartel on this board. This is what will happen to you if you follow them. Adios.
    CommentQuote
  • The real estate cookie crumbles

    From Business-standard

    The story of Sashwat Brahma is an interesting one. His story, unverified by me, appears as a post on ="http://www.consumercomplaints.in"]www.consumercomplaints.in and goes like this. He applied for a 4 BHK apartment in DLF's New Town Heights in Gurgaon and put money down. A year has passed; but there is no sign of the project, launched in February 2008.

    He then says that DLF delayed in sending the agreement, thanks to which there was a delay in payment of loan instalments from his bank. DLF, according to him, charged him interest for the delay, saying had the disbursal come in time, then he would have paid the finance company interest and hence he should pay DLF interest even though the delay was at their end! I am only hoping I am not getting something here.
    Sashwat says he has a signed agreement with several unsigned pages and the witness page unsigned. He wants to exit, as do a few other potential apartment mates. DLF's response: “Feel free to take us to court.” “DLF has charged customers when they have not even started work. Why should I pay them if the project has not taken off?” he asks.
    If you think I am being led down the garden (pun not intended) path by one biased property speculator, well, you can visit an entire Yahoo group(]http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/Newtownheights/) which has apparently rallied 300 prospective owners saying, “This (group) is to bring all future residents of DLF New Town Heights and DLF Express Greens residents together. We all need to need to be together to make it happen,” they say. The web page says there are 672 new messages.
    Unitech, the other Delhi-based giant, is facing similar ire for delays over its World Spa project, delivery date for which was mid-2006, and is still not done. There are similar tales in Mumbai where scores of home buyers hold ownership papers, without the keys to their homes. And the wait has been pretty tough, particularly for those whose EMI clock has begun ticking. Though there are very few of those and more of the speculative variety. From a layman’s perspective, it was, just to recount a fantasy all over again, an amazing run. The big builders who already owned land at close to throwaway prices were getting funded both ways, by the banks, private equity players and hungry small investors on one end and the other, well, you and me, funded in turn by the banks. It’s a miracle that the banks, at least some of them, have not blown holes in their balance sheets. Or have they?
    All the money, believe it or not, was being collected upfront, to fund other grandiose projects, of four and five bedrooms, with extensive landscaping, water bodies and modern security systems. And of course, most home buyers were also diving in, thinking prices would appreciate 400 per cent all over again. And most of them have first-owned homes already. So the law of the unregulated market says buyers must pay the price for trusting the DLFs and Unitechs and scores of builders across the country. Yes and no. Because rising real estate prices have created a level of arrogance in the developer community unseen or unheard of in any other business. Keep paying up buddy or go to court. Because the fine print in our contract says you have no choice.
    Now this is not about disgruntled second and third home owners banding together on the internet or wherever they are. This is about how India’s real estate industry lacks any body or regulator that can haul up realtors who take buyers for a ride. And lets be fair— DLF and Unitech are soft targets because they are visible. There are hundreds of cases in Mumbai which never make it to Yahoo Groups, or anywhere, for that matter. Except in some corner of a consumer court where they can grind on unnoticed for years.
    Let’s assume a regulator will not come about in a hurry because the real estate industry— which wants a return to the golden era of 7 per cent interest rates so that they can make you pay for their delays-—will howl in protest. Don't be surprised if the protests hit home because most politicians are inextricably linked to real estate, at least in the city of Mumbai where I often find it difficult to separate one from the other.
    What are we doing in the meanwhile, is the question. Let’s face it. Assume the grand gong signaling the downturn went off in October 2008. But many of the projects in question, including in Mumbai, were supposed to be completed even before that. There was no real funding problem as I see it. So where were the glitches?
    Well, this is where the arrogance of the builders (and the stupidity of the buyers) sets new benchmarks. Turns out the delays were more to do with land clearances, lack of occupation certificates and the like. Puneet, writing on indianconsumercomplaints, says DLF told him they have no environmental clearances. When he said he wanted to back off, they asked for a Rs 5 lakh penalty! Now, DLF is apparently willing to renegotiate with buyers. Which it should have done in the first place, without the media shindig. So this is how the real estate cookie is crumbling. But let’s assume, as we always optimistically do, we can’t do anything about anything, legal or otherwise. Surely we should not be listening to the real estate sector’s demands on interest rates. Clearly we know where the problem is.) which has apparently rallied 300 prospective owners saying, “This (group) is to bring all future residents of DLF New Town Heights and DLF Express Greens residents together. We all need to need to be together to make it happen,” they say. The web page says there are 672 new messages.
    Unitech, the other Delhi-based giant, is facing similar ire for delays over its World Spa project, delivery date for which was mid-2006, and is still not done. There are similar tales in Mumbai where scores of home buyers hold ownership papers, without the keys to their homes. And the wait has been pretty tough, particularly for those whose EMI clock has begun ticking. Though there are very few of those and more of the speculative variety. From a layman’s perspective, it was, just to recount a fantasy all over again, an amazing run. The big builders who already owned land at close to throwaway prices were getting funded both ways, by the banks, private equity players and hungry small investors on one end and the other, well, you and me, funded in turn by the banks. It’s a miracle that the banks, at least some of them, have not blown holes in their balance sheets. Or have they?
    All the money, believe it or not, was being collected upfront, to fund other grandiose projects, of four and five bedrooms, with extensive landscaping, water bodies and modern security systems. And of course, most home buyers were also diving in, thinking prices would appreciate 400 per cent all over again. And most of them have first-owned homes already. So the law of the unregulated market says buyers must pay the price for trusting the DLFs and Unitechs and scores of builders across the country. Yes and no. Because rising real estate prices have created a level of arrogance in the developer community unseen or unheard of in any other business. Keep paying up buddy or go to court. Because the fine print in our contract says you have no choice.
    Now this is not about disgruntled second and third home owners banding together on the internet or wherever they are. This is about how India’s real estate industry lacks any body or regulator that can haul up realtors who take buyers for a ride. And lets be fair— DLF and Unitech are soft targets because they are visible. There are hundreds of cases in Mumbai which never make it to Yahoo Groups, or anywhere, for that matter. Except in some corner of a consumer court where they can grind on unnoticed for years.
    Let’s assume a regulator will not come about in a hurry because the real estate industry— which wants a return to the golden era of 7 per cent interest rates so that they can make you pay for their delays-—will howl in protest. Don't be surprised if the protests hit home because most politicians are inextricably linked to real estate, at least in the city of Mumbai where I often find it difficult to separate one from the other.
    What are we doing in the meanwhile, is the question. Let’s face it. Assume the grand gong signaling the downturn went off in October 2008. But many of the projects in question, including in Mumbai, were supposed to be completed even before that. There was no real funding problem as I see it. So where were the glitches?
    Well, this is where the arrogance of the builders (and the stupidity of the buyers) sets new benchmarks. Turns out the delays were more to do with land clearances, lack of occupation certificates and the like. Puneet, writing on indianconsumercomplaints, says DLF told him they have no environmental clearances. When he said he wanted to back off, they asked for a Rs 5 lakh penalty! Now, DLF is apparently willing to renegotiate with buyers. Which it should have done in the first place, without the media shindig. So this is how the real estate cookie is crumbling. But let’s assume, as we always optimistically do, we can’t do anything about anything, legal or otherwise. Surely we should not be listening to the real estate sector’s demands on interest rates. Clearly we know where the problem is.) which has apparently rallied 300 prospective owners saying, “This (group) is to bring all future residents of DLF New Town Heights and DLF Express Greens residents together. We all need to need to be together to make it happen,” they say. The web page says there are 672 new messages.
    Unitech, the other Delhi-based giant, is facing similar ire for delays over its World Spa project, delivery date for which was mid-2006, and is still not done. There are similar tales in Mumbai where scores of home buyers hold ownership papers, without the keys to their homes. And the wait has been pretty tough, particularly for those whose EMI clock has begun ticking. Though there are very few of those and more of the speculative variety. From a layman’s perspective, it was, just to recount a fantasy all over again, an amazing run. The big builders who already owned land at close to throwaway prices were getting funded both ways, by the banks, private equity players and hungry small investors on one end and the other, well, you and me, funded in turn by the banks. It’s a miracle that the banks, at least some of them, have not blown holes in their balance sheets. Or have they?
    All the money, believe it or not, was being collected upfront, to fund other grandiose projects, of four and five bedrooms, with extensive landscaping, water bodies and modern security systems. And of course, most home buyers were also diving in, thinking prices would appreciate 400 per cent all over again. And most of them have first-owned homes already. So the law of the unregulated market says buyers must pay the price for trusting the DLFs and Unitechs and scores of builders across the country. Yes and no. Because rising real estate prices have created a level of arrogance in the developer community unseen or unheard of in any other business. Keep paying up buddy or go to court. Because the fine print in our contract says you have no choice.
    Now this is not about disgruntled second and third home owners banding together on the internet or wherever they are. This is about how India’s real estate industry lacks any body or regulator that can haul up realtors who take buyers for a ride. And lets be fair— DLF and Unitech are soft targets because they are visible. There are hundreds of cases in Mumbai which never make it to Yahoo Groups, or anywhere, for that matter. Except in some corner of a consumer court where they can grind on unnoticed for years.
    Let’s assume a regulator will not come about in a hurry because the real estate industry— which wants a return to the golden era of 7 per cent interest rates so that they can make you pay for their delays-—will howl in protest. Don't be surprised if the protests hit home because most politicians are inextricably linked to real estate, at least in the city of Mumbai where I often find it difficult to separate one from the other.
    What are we doing in the meanwhile, is the question. Let’s face it. Assume the grand gong signaling the downturn went off in October 2008. But many of the projects in question, including in Mumbai, were supposed to be completed even before that. There was no real funding problem as I see it. So where were the glitches?
    Well, this is where the arrogance of the builders (and the stupidity of the buyers) sets new benchmarks. Turns out the delays were more to do with land clearances, lack of occupation certificates and the like. Puneet, writing on indianconsumercomplaints, says DLF told him they have no environmental clearances. When he said he wanted to back off, they asked for a Rs 5 lakh penalty! Now, DLF is apparently willing to renegotiate with buyers. Which it should have done in the first place, without the media shindig. So this is how the real estate cookie is crumbling. But let’s assume, as we always optimistically do, we can’t do anything about anything, legal or otherwise. Surely we should not be listening to the real estate sector’s demands on interest rates. Clearly we know where the problem is.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by BigBear
    From Business-standard

    The story of Sashwat Brahma is an interesting one. His story, unverified by me, appears as a post on ="http://www.consumercomplaints.in"]www.consumercomplaints.in and goes like this. He applied for a 4 BHK apartment in DLF's New Town Heights in Gurgaon and put money down. A year has passed; but there is no sign of the project, launched in February 2008.

    He then says that DLF delayed in sending the agreement, thanks to which there was a delay in payment of loan instalments from his bank. DLF, according to him, charged him interest for the delay, saying had the disbursal come in time, then he would have paid the finance company interest and hence he should pay DLF interest even though the delay was at their end! I am only hoping I am not getting something here.
    Sashwat says he has a signed agreement with several unsigned pages and the witness page unsigned. He wants to exit, as do a few other potential apartment mates. DLF's response: “Feel free to take us to court.” “DLF has charged customers when they have not even started work. Why should I pay them if the project has not taken off?” he asks.
    If you think I am being led down the garden (pun not intended) path by one biased property speculator, well, you can visit an entire Yahoo group(]http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/Newtownheights/) which has apparently rallied 300 prospective owners saying, “This (group) is to bring all future residents of DLF New Town Heights and DLF Express Greens residents together. We all need to need to be together to make it happen,” they say. The web page says there are 672 new messages.
    Unitech, the other Delhi-based giant, is facing similar ire for delays over its World Spa project, delivery date for which was mid-2006, and is still not done. There are similar tales in Mumbai where scores of home buyers hold ownership papers, without the keys to their homes. And the wait has been pretty tough, particularly for those whose EMI clock has begun ticking. Though there are very few of those and more of the speculative variety. From a layman’s perspective, it was, just to recount a fantasy all over again, an amazing run. The big builders who already owned land at close to throwaway prices were getting funded both ways, by the banks, private equity players and hungry small investors on one end and the other, well, you and me, funded in turn by the banks. It’s a miracle that the banks, at least some of them, have not blown holes in their balance sheets. Or have they?
    All the money, believe it or not, was being collected upfront, to fund other grandiose projects, of four and five bedrooms, with extensive landscaping, water bodies and modern security systems. And of course, most home buyers were also diving in, thinking prices would appreciate 400 per cent all over again. And most of them have first-owned homes already. So the law of the unregulated market says buyers must pay the price for trusting the DLFs and Unitechs and scores of builders across the country. Yes and no. Because rising real estate prices have created a level of arrogance in the developer community unseen or unheard of in any other business. Keep paying up buddy or go to court. Because the fine print in our contract says you have no choice.
    Now this is not about disgruntled second and third home owners banding together on the internet or wherever they are. This is about how India’s real estate industry lacks any body or regulator that can haul up realtors who take buyers for a ride. And lets be fair— DLF and Unitech are soft targets because they are visible. There are hundreds of cases in Mumbai which never make it to Yahoo Groups, or anywhere, for that matter. Except in some corner of a consumer court where they can grind on unnoticed for years.
    Let’s assume a regulator will not come about in a hurry because the real estate industry— which wants a return to the golden era of 7 per cent interest rates so that they can make you pay for their delays-—will howl in protest. Don't be surprised if the protests hit home because most politicians are inextricably linked to real estate, at least in the city of Mumbai where I often find it difficult to separate one from the other.
    What are we doing in the meanwhile, is the question. Let’s face it. Assume the grand gong signaling the downturn went off in October 2008. But many of the projects in question, including in Mumbai, were supposed to be completed even before that. There was no real funding problem as I see it. So where were the glitches?
    Well, this is where the arrogance of the builders (and the stupidity of the buyers) sets new benchmarks. Turns out the delays were more to do with land clearances, lack of occupation certificates and the like. Puneet, writing on indianconsumercomplaints, says DLF told him they have no environmental clearances. When he said he wanted to back off, they asked for a Rs 5 lakh penalty! Now, DLF is apparently willing to renegotiate with buyers. Which it should have done in the first place, without the media shindig. So this is how the real estate cookie is crumbling. But let’s assume, as we always optimistically do, we can’t do anything about anything, legal or otherwise. Surely we should not be listening to the real estate sector’s demands on interest rates. Clearly we know where the problem is.
    Any regulatory body in any place is just red tape and a money making racket, this is happening not only in India (if there is any regulation) but in other countries who have these bodies. The RE people know how to wrangle their way through and there will be an extra pair of hands to grease. The best way is for a customer to be informed and a body which rates the builders

    Can
    Any regulatory body in any place is just red tape and a money making racket, this is happening not only in India (if there is any regulation) but in other countries who have these bodies. The RE people know how to wrangle their way through and there will be an extra pair of hands to grease. The best way is for a customer to be informed and a body which rates the builders

    Can
    Any regulatory body in any place is just red tape and a money making racket, this is happening not only in India (if there is any regulation) but in other countries who have these bodies. The RE people know how to wrangle their way through and there will be an extra pair of hands to grease. The best way is for a customer to be informed and a body which rates the builders

    Can
    Any regulatory body in any place is just red tape and a money making racket, this is happening not only in India (if there is any regulation) but in other countries who have these bodies. The RE people know how to wrangle their way through and there will be an extra pair of hands to grease. The best way is for a customer to be informed and a body which rates the builders

    Can
    Any regulatory body in any place is just red tape and a money making racket, this is happening not only in India (if there is any regulation) but in other countries who have these bodies. The RE people know how to wrangle their way through and there will be an extra pair of hands to grease. The best way is for a customer to be informed and a body which rates the builders

    Can
    CommentQuote
  • Dear friend,

    A good thought provoking post from you. It has clearly explained the scenario and the poor buyers just cannot do much about it unless the builders themselves change for the better. This can never happen in India and there will not be any regulator to oversee.

    ks2071746
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by panther
    The light at the end of the tunnel is the headlamp of an oncoming train! :)

    On a serious note though, while I side with wiseman purely because that's what I want to happen in the market, I might start losing faith in all the bearish speculations. The real estate controllers (developers/brokers/builders) of India are proving to be really stubborn and greedy creatures. In spite of sales completely drying up for over a year, enquiries going down by over 90%, a spectacular crash in their stock prices, they have still managed to hold on to their crazy prices, while trying to openly manipulate the public through misleading propaganda via the media.

    Now, I am a potential buyer who has helplessly watched the prices go up from 2003 to 2008, not know what the right entry point was. Last year, I was desperate and absolutely mad at how blatantly these SOBs are manipulating the market and was fiercely wishing and praying for the realty market to correct. I was quite hopeful the last 12 months reading all kinds of bearing predictions backed by some solid logical data (wiseman being one of the chief contributors of such data, and I thank him for that).

    But against all odds and market forces, the fact is that the real estate prices have still not corrected -- at least not in Delhi. Today, I see the realty stocks in India undergoing a pretty big jump. L&T is boasting the bagging of a new order. Almost all realty stocks are up today. So, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON? Have the rules of free market stop existing in India completely? In the US, one year of fallen demand and there was a clear correction in realty prices, but in India, in spite of negligible demand the prices are still way up. And I fear that the bad phase for realty might be over the prices might go up again.

    What the heck???!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Can someone please convince me that all the bear market predictions are really gonna come true? I really really want that to happen.

    You have spoken very sanely I think. However your SOB is not in the right spirit. Remember if I sold land and price went up I will be sad. If I bought land and it went up I will be happy. I cant blame the buyer for my curse of selling and vice versa. In other words the idea that govt or media are manipulating is not wrong or right, rather it does not matter, since that is the way in any country in any situation. Remember the WINNER TAKES IT ALL and what happens in US is immaterial in Somalia and what happens there does not matter in India.
    As for reality, I think Wiseman and his bear cartel are actually people who are wishing prices crashed for themselves and folks like you to buy in. Unfortunately MARKETS, I mean any market, stocks, RE or whatever always make sure that folks like you lose out. So you will enter only at the peak and that is why U R there! LOL!. In other words tell us when you buy in and others can take that as a peak!
    Mind u, I am not joking. Markets know NO LOGIC. They work on Psychology and folks like u will be butchered.
    Also folks like Wiseman seem to have no logic. They are talking 1st standard mathematics in a complex world.
    Anyway the truth is market is shooting up, and it wont fall, rather will shoot up. I meant RE market. Bye
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by vijai5
    even for me too because of wiseman i have deferred my purchase and it was a good decision i made with the help of him.kudos to wiseman

    Did you manage to buy it cheap? Remember you might be missing the upmove always! Tell us when you buy and that will be the peak I suspect! LOL!
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by BigBear
    From Business-standard

    The story of Sashwat Brahma is an interesting one. His story, unverified by me, appears as a post on ="http://www.consumercomplaints.in"]www.consumercomplaints.in and goes like this. He applied for a 4 BHK apartment in DLF's New Town Heights in Gurgaon and put money down. A year has passed; but there is no sign of the project, launched in February 2008.

    He then says that DLF delayed in sending the agreement, thanks to which there was a delay in payment of loan instalments from his bank. DLF, according to him, charged him interest for the delay, saying had the disbursal come in time, then he would have paid the finance company interest and hence he should pay DLF interest even though the delay was at their end! I am only hoping I am not getting something here.
    Sashwat says he has a signed agreement with several unsigned pages and the witness page unsigned. He wants to exit, as do a few other potential apartment mates. DLF's response: “Feel free to take us to court.” “DLF has charged customers when they have not even started work. Why should I pay them if the project has not taken off?” he asks.
    If you think I am being led down the garden (pun not intended) path by one biased property speculator, well, you can visit an entire Yahoo group(]http://in.groups.yahoo.com/group/Newtownheights/) which has apparently rallied 300 prospective owners saying, “This (group) is to bring all future residents of DLF New Town Heights and DLF Express Greens residents together. We all need to need to be together to make it happen,” they say. The web page says there are 672 new messages.
    Unitech, the other Delhi-based giant, is facing similar ire for delays over its World Spa project, delivery date for which was mid-2006, and is still not done. There are similar tales in Mumbai where scores of home buyers hold ownership papers, without the keys to their homes. And the wait has been pretty tough, particularly for those whose EMI clock has begun ticking. Though there are very few of those and more of the speculative variety. From a layman’s perspective, it was, just to recount a fantasy all over again, an amazing run. The big builders who already owned land at close to throwaway prices were getting funded both ways, by the banks, private equity players and hungry small investors on one end and the other, well, you and me, funded in turn by the banks. It’s a miracle that the banks, at least some of them, have not blown holes in their balance sheets. Or have they?
    All the money, believe it or not, was being collected upfront, to fund other grandiose projects, of four and five bedrooms, with extensive landscaping, water bodies and modern security systems. And of course, most home buyers were also diving in, thinking prices would appreciate 400 per cent all over again. And most of them have first-owned homes already. So the law of the unregulated market says buyers must pay the price for trusting the DLFs and Unitechs and scores of builders across the country. Yes and no. Because rising real estate prices have created a level of arrogance in the developer community unseen or unheard of in any other business. Keep paying up buddy or go to court. Because the fine print in our contract says you have no choice.
    Now this is not about disgruntled second and third home owners banding together on the internet or wherever they are. This is about how India’s real estate industry lacks any body or regulator that can haul up realtors who take buyers for a ride. And lets be fair— DLF and Unitech are soft targets because they are visible. There are hundreds of cases in Mumbai which never make it to Yahoo Groups, or anywhere, for that matter. Except in some corner of a consumer court where they can grind on unnoticed for years.
    Let’s assume a regulator will not come about in a hurry because the real estate industry— which wants a return to the golden era of 7 per cent interest rates so that they can make you pay for their delays-—will howl in protest. Don't be surprised if the protests hit home because most politicians are inextricably linked to real estate, at least in the city of Mumbai where I often find it difficult to separate one from the other.
    What are we doing in the meanwhile, is the question. Let’s face it. Assume the grand gong signaling the downturn went off in October 2008. But many of the projects in question, including in Mumbai, were supposed to be completed even before that. There was no real funding problem as I see it. So where were the glitches?
    Well, this is where the arrogance of the builders (and the stupidity of the buyers) sets new benchmarks. Turns out the delays were more to do with land clearances, lack of occupation certificates and the like. Puneet, writing on indianconsumercomplaints, says DLF told him they have no environmental clearances. When he said he wanted to back off, they asked for a Rs 5 lakh penalty! Now, DLF is apparently willing to renegotiate with buyers. Which it should have done in the first place, without the media shindig. So this is how the real estate cookie is crumbling. But let’s assume, as we always optimistically do, we can’t do anything about anything, legal or otherwise. Surely we should not be listening to the real estate sector’s demands on interest rates. Clearly we know where the problem is.
    Now u know why u should buy land and build your house or go to the small builder who can be arm twisted. DLF the Delhi goon will only cheat!
    Now u know why u should buy land and build your house or go to the small builder who can be arm twisted. DLF the Delhi goon will only cheat!
    Now u know why u should buy land and build your house or go to the small builder who can be arm twisted. DLF the Delhi goon will only cheat!
    Now u know why u should buy land and build your house or go to the small builder who can be arm twisted. DLF the Delhi goon will only cheat!
    Now u know why u should buy land and build your house or go to the small builder who can be arm twisted. DLF the Delhi goon will only cheat!
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  • Originally Posted by ks2071746
    Dear friend,

    A good thought provoking post from you. It has clearly explained the scenario and the poor buyers just cannot do much about it unless the builders themselves change for the better. This can never happen in India and there will not be any regulator to oversee.

    ks2071746

    You mean to say "thirudanai parthu thiruntha vittal, thiruttai ozhikka mudiyathu"? MGR/Kannadasan said it long ago!
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    You mean to say "thirudanai parthu thiruntha vittal, thiruttai ozhikka mudiyathu"? MGR/Kannadasan said it long ago!

    Corollary: Wisemannai parthu arivu valakka vittal, arivu avanukku valarathu!
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    Corollary: Wisemannai parthu arivu valakka vittal, arivu avanukku valarathu!

    For all the pessimists on this board! FYI. A land on Rangachari road, Mylapore is being quoted at 20crores for 4 grounds. So a ground is costing 5 crores or a sqft is costing about 21K.
    Now dont ask me why some fella was talking about RK Salai land for 2crores. He obviously has no land or brain!
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    You mean to say "thirudanai parthu thiruntha vittal, thiruttai ozhikka mudiyathu"? MGR/Kannadasan said it long ago!


    Dear friend,

    You said it right.

    ks2071746
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    Corollary: Wisemannai parthu arivu valakka vittal, arivu avanukku valarathu!

    We have come out of the tunnel successfully. However I dont know about Wiseman! LOL!
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  • Originally Posted by vijai5
    even for me too because of wiseman i have deferred my purchase and it was a good decision i made with the help of him.kudos to wiseman

    Will these kudos continue indefinitely?
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