The Chennai real estate prices did not fall too much. It got corrected to some extent in the range of 10-20% depending upon the location. In my opinion, the Chennai RE has appreciated too much and there is less room to move upward. The higher income (IT and others) job losses make the situations worsens further.

The beaten down stock market shows some improvement. I think it is wise to invest in stocks now. I bought suzlon at 40 Rs. (6000 stocks). In 2 months, the stocks price jumped to 90 Rs. I got my investment doubled and it may increase further. This may not possible with RE unless we are heading for collapse.
I bought Bank of Ireland ADR (IRE) for 1 dollar (1800 stocks). It is now at 9 dollars.
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  • With Strong like folks the brain is located elsewhere that it slipped off during one fart!
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    Nats,

    For a majority of people current options for RE investment is only in flats or built-up property. So your advice for buying land to them is of no practical value. To be a buyer of land, you should have started in the 80s (or earlier) and bought then - I did and still have land bought in those days which was literally zero price compared to current prices. Let is also agree that no one in those days guessed that we would have such a boom, so our wealth has occurred more due to luck and accident than astute financial savvy!

    There are serious problems of conceit in you that you always assume that others have to be equally stupid as you, if you are proved stupid Wisey.
    Those who bought land in 80s bought it for appreciation, full stop. Ofcourse there were others like you who were accidentally right then and are accidentally wrong now about RE. In other words you cant predict. You just depend on luck.
    I for one bought land with the clear idealogy that land appreciates and building depreciates. Also buying land today is not a big deal. If I sell my Urapakkam land for 40L and someone bought it, and let us say he is in the 20-30 age group. He will reap his fortune when he is in 40-50 age group. Why?
    Urapakkam is liveable. 40L is affordable.
    Now why is 40L affordable? Someone who bought land in Urapakkam say in 1990s spent 1L to 2L to buy the land. Such a guy was spending his entire one year's salary. I am talking about a well paid SW engineer in 1990s, not the clerk. A similar guy today earns about 12 to 20L. To be precise in 1995 or so, a friend of mine, B.Tech IISc Comp Science bought land in Urapakkam for 2L per ground. His salary must have been around 20K to 25K p.m. His experience around 10years. So he must have put in his annual income less tax almost into this purchase.
    Now 10 year experienced IISc, IIT grad (not from your UNKNOWN COLLEGE WISEY!!) earns around 20L to 30L p.a. today. So he will be putting about 2 years salary to buy this land. Why 2years while it was 1 year in 1995. Since in 1995 it was unliveable in Urapakkam even though there was a railway station. So that 1 additional year salary is the true growth in Urapakkam, rest is pure inflation. SO IT IS HIGHLY JUSTIFIED. Now in 2015-20 an IISc grad with 10 years exp will be able to buy a flat in Urapakkam. This is how life moves.
    Now if today's 28 year old buys this land because he is pure lucky like Wisey or because he is a suave investor like me does not matter. Just that he can buy it if he is worth it. That is it!
    So land is not costly today. Only that worthless people cant get worthwhile stuff. So if you were not the IISc guy but some UNKNOWN COLLEGE for example with say 5L salary, you can yet buy land, probably in Chingelpet. Remember that will also appreciate. However you can crib that after 10 years it only appreciated this much and the IIT guys land went up that much. U can only get what u r worth.
    Cheers.
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  • Originally Posted by Sansei
    Leave aside personal things & history.

    Me thinks : Black money another big driver of RE, will continue to be generated.

    With archaic laws & general ignorance of populace in addition to haphazard, unplanned development the land shortages would continue to be problem in future.

    This will always place a premium to land available and suitable for development.

    Land is better alternative as investment.

    Dont keep expecting zooming profits , start nibbling into it and diversifying if u want to achieve ur target. Try for land instead of flat, since it will act as hedge for runaway property rise which is very improbable.

    Foresight is for planning and profit
    Hindsight for lessons and dispair

    Many on this board are talking only in Hindsight.
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  • Each time you put both your feet in your mouth simultaneously :)

    Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    There are serious problems of conceit in you that you always assume that others have to be equally stupid as you, if you are proved stupid Wisey.
    Those who bought land in 80s bought it for appreciation, full stop. Ofcourse there were others like you who were accidentally right then and are accidentally wrong now about RE. In other words you cant predict. You just depend on luck.
    I for one bought land with the clear idealogy that land appreciates and building depreciates. Also buying land today is not a big deal. If I sell my Urapakkam land for 40L and someone bought it, and let us say he is in the 20-30 age group. He will reap his fortune when he is in 40-50 age group. Why?
    Urapakkam is liveable. 40L is affordable.
    Now why is 40L affordable? Someone who bought land in Urapakkam say in 1990s spent 1L to 2L to buy the land. Such a guy was spending his entire one year's salary. I am talking about a well paid SW engineer in 1990s, not the clerk. A similar guy today earns about 12 to 20L. To be precise in 1995 or so, a friend of mine, B.Tech IISc Comp Science bought land in Urapakkam for 2L per ground. His salary must have been around 20K to 25K p.m. His experience around 10years. So he must have put in his annual income less tax almost into this purchase.
    Now 10 year experienced IISc, IIT grad (not from your UNKNOWN COLLEGE WISEY!!) earns around 20L to 30L p.a. today. So he will be putting about 2 years salary to buy this land. Why 2years while it was 1 year in 1995. Since in 1995 it was unliveable in Urapakkam even though there was a railway station. So that 1 additional year salary is the true growth in Urapakkam, rest is pure inflation. SO IT IS HIGHLY JUSTIFIED. Now in 2015-20 an IISc grad with 10 years exp will be able to buy a flat in Urapakkam. This is how life moves.
    Now if today's 28 year old buys this land because he is pure lucky like Wisey or because he is a suave investor like me does not matter. Just that he can buy it if he is worth it. That is it!
    So land is not costly today. Only that worthless people cant get worthwhile stuff. So if you were not the IISc guy but some UNKNOWN COLLEGE for example with say 5L salary, you can yet buy land, probably in Chingelpet. Remember that will also appreciate. However you can crib that after 10 years it only appreciated this much and the IIT guys land went up that much. U can only get what u r worth.
    Cheers.



    Nats,

    Clearly, your conceit is greater than anyone else's on this board and anywhere else for that matter.

    Besides, merely passing out of an IIT does not bestow some kind of special magic on you. The fame IITs have got is because of the achievements of a few IIT-ians who made it to the top. The others just bask in their reflected glory and think they too are as great as the achievers. Besides quitting the softare game at the wrong time (how sad), what exactly are your achievements that you sit in judgement about all that others talk about? Just remember. You are merely a has-been, probably currently jobless RE speculator, nothing more, nothing less.

    To put the record straight, I started my career as the EA to the Chairman of one of the top 4 IT groups in India today with a gross salary of 3500 pm in 1985 - there were 4 of us, of which 2 are CEOs of billion $$$ Indian multinationals today. That was one of the top jobs going at that time.

    Not bad for a guy from an UNKNOWN college, what? :D And what were you drawing then, Nats? Honest, now. Your conceit may force you to tell lies ;).

    I could buy a 2400SFt plot (land) around half a km from the Koramangala BDA complex for less than 15k - 4 months gross pay for me and I got 2 of them! :D I still hold the view that much of the wealth that people create is more by accident than by their astuteness - unlike you who thinks you dreamt up this 2004-08 boom back in IIT in the early 80s!

    If someone is currently having a 20L to 30L salary today after 10 years experience, he/she would not be so stupid as to go to the back of beyond called Urapakkam and buy land from a down-at-the-heels, failed- guy-who-is-repenting-why-he-left-the-business-in-2004-and-missed-the-boom guy whose only claim to fame was to pass out of an IIT 25 years ago and who, after all is said and done, is nothing but a RE speculator waiting to pounce on the unwary to palm off his marshland in the boondocks to the unsuspecting 30L salaried guy!!! :D

    Coming back to the topic after a fitting round of abuse in response to your totall unprovoked abuse :p, how many guys do you think are there today who draw 30L salaries with 10 years' experience?

    To create a trend, it needs tens of thousands to participate, not just a few handful who will palm off their hard-earned money to thieves such as you! Can you give me some data/statistics about the number of people with 10 years' experience earning 20-30L? Don't talk like a complete idiot, thus putting the illustrious institution you passed out of so long ago to shame.

    For every 1000 people who are looking at RE, around 990 are looking at buying flats to live in and hoping that this will also appreciate at a decent rate to provide the proverbial cushion for a rainy day if it happens. Most of these 1000 are having other professions and are not full-time RE speculators like you. So, your arguments, while being obviously correct - no marks to you or mouthing the obvious - is applicable to a small subset of people, not to the many who frequent this and other boards to figure out what to do with flats - not land in the boondocks which they will buy now and hope it becomes livable around 30 years later when they retire.

    Take a break!

    cheers
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  • i donno when this fight is going to end..someone needs to give up...sometimes valuable posts are getting missed amidst such altercations :(
    sorry nats/wiseman...enough is enough...
    let us make this forum constructive ...pls make the few mins that we spend in this forum be useful for us..
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  • Originally Posted by Maheshk
    i donno when this fight is going to end..someone needs to give up...sometimes valuable posts are getting missed amidst such altercations :(
    sorry nats/wiseman...enough is enough...
    let us make this forum constructive ...pls make the few mins that we spend in this forum be useful for us..

    Mahesh, I am sorry if you dont find the forum useful. I dont write here to make it useful for you. In other words I am not paid to write here neither do I have unlimited time to write here as poor Wisey will want to believe. I write to spend some time, sometimes as a distraction from my taxing work schedule. However I dont write to argue with Wiseman. I write to make it clear to the readers that they are fools to follow Wiseman and his bear cartel who are confusing hosts of folks from inheriting wealth.
    Please note that Rs 3500 to an executive assistant in 1985 would have happened if the CEO was one's father! In other words Wiseman is selling one more pack of lies or is it jokes?
    All I can tell is that even today if you wanna move up you got to find your way. Papa's babies are not great advisers!! Land appreciates and INVESTING in land is correct. Building depreciates. U buy buildings to live and not for it to stay idle.
    As for missed posts, you need to search the forum thoroughly. Nobody is going to provide you SOLUTIONS on your finger tips. If you follow the CNBC experts assuming they will solve your problem then dont complain when you lose money following them.
    After all if I know what will be the Nifty value every day then why will I share that with you. If Wiseman knew that RE will fall, why will he continue to hold his land in RK Salai. The CNBC experts dont invest, they talk for the retainer money. Now you can guess what Wisey is upto! Cheers.
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  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Nats,


    You are merely a has-been, probably currently jobless RE speculator, nothing more, nothing less.



    Wiseman, Your irritation at your ownself is understandable. Let us assume as you say I am a jobless speculator and am writing here therefore! What makes a busybody like you write here endlessly with pseudo names to add to the boot. U r the 3rd in terms of number of posts on this board and I notice u write on any board, Chennai, Bangalore, BOmbay and if they allow Shimla, KOta or even Rangoon you will write here.
    Do you think readers here are idiots to believe you as anything but a timepass liar!
    Wake up darling WIsey
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  • Originally Posted by contra
    If stocks have risen sharply in last 2 months it is not just because they were cheap but because there was anticipation of lot of liquidity to get into the system. By the way even in oct 2008, when BSE index reached low levels there were companies like HDFC, SBI which were still having high P/E ratios of 20, 12 respectively. Now after sharp rally P/E ratios of HDFC, SBI have hit even higher 30, 17 respectively making them more valuable than western banks.

    lets take 2 scenarios

    1. If this rally in stocks is a bear market rally and the anticipated liquidity does not come and central banks disappoint stock markets all over by not releasing liquidity, the rally will end. Stocks will again fall. This will make central banks nervous and will end up with them releasing lot of liquidity. That lot of liquidity will first get into stocks as this is a liquid market. After some months same liquidity will get in real estate and make chennai real estate prices shoot upwards.

    2. If this is a bull market, then it means central banks releasing liquidity is granted. In this scenario now that liquidity is already flowing in stocks after some months you will find chennai real estate prices going up and developers becoming even more adamant as same liquidity has to get into real estate.


    So in both the cases inflation will rise and first thing to go up in such a scenario will be the interest rate.Remeber last time banks competing with each other to increase interest rates.Most of the people buying property now will be purchasing through debt as only few people have money to purchase RE for 40-50 lakhs in cash.Then most of thier salary will go in paying emi only leaving peanuts for other expense.

    If it is so easy to print money and avoid crisis then why Japan is in deflation for last 2 decades.May be they need you as bank of japan governor.:D
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  • Originally Posted by BigBear
    So in both the cases inflation will rise and first thing to go up in such a scenario will be the interest rate.Remeber last time banks competing with each other to increase interest rates.Most of the people buying property now will be purchasing through debt as only few people have money to purchase RE for 40-50 lakhs in cash.Then most of thier salary will go in paying emi only leaving peanuts for other expense.

    If it is so easy to print money and avoid crisis then why Japan is in deflation for last 2 decades.May be they need you as bank of japan governor.:D


    Japan printed a lot of yen during 1990s and Japanese banks were flush with cash. However it is a mistake to say that the enormous amount of Yen printed by the Japanese did not cause inflation.

    Japanese Yen caused massive inflation not in Japan but in the rest of the world through Yen Carry Trade.

    Japanese companies, individuals and finanacial institutions exported all those huge amount of Yen printed in japan to other countries as yields within Japan was low.

    So Japan itself was in deflation, but its Yen was spreading like wildfire all over the rest of the world through Yen Carry Trade creating inflation wherever Yen went. Even in India's stock market when BSE index was at 3000 in August 2004, Japanese investors were the single largest FII group who single handedly fired the BSE index to 7000 by August 2005....the rest is history.
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    With Strong like folks the brain is located elsewhere that it slipped off during one fart!


    Useless Nats.
    Excess that fell off from my ass during farting entered into your mouth. Thats why you stink. ROTFL
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  • Precisely the point ...

    Originally Posted by BigBear
    So in both the cases inflation will rise and first thing to go up in such a scenario will be the interest rate.Remeber last time banks competing with each other to increase interest rates.Most of the people buying property now will be purchasing through debt as only few people have money to purchase RE for 40-50 lakhs in cash.Then most of thier salary will go in paying emi only leaving peanuts for other expense.

    If it is so easy to print money and avoid crisis then why Japan is in deflation for last 2 decades.May be they need you as bank of japan governor.:D



    Contra and BigBear,

    Please note that we are in a catch22 situation and it will not be an easy route out of this.

    Currently, the world is in a deflationary situation with all major manufacturing and other indicators falling over the whole of last year faster than during the first year of the Great Depression!!! This is a very important point and there are charts and articles supporting this postulate.

    Also please note that the first crash of the GD took 3 whole years bottoming out only in 1932. So, we might just be in this for the next 2 years at the least. Also, then, we had a big bear market rally so we are on track for this bear market to continue.

    Second, if inflation does catch on seriously - while simultaneously there continues demand destruction (such things are possible, please note what happened in the Weimar Republic - Germany - in 1922/23) we will be once again looking at prices rising uncomfortable fast and building up another big crash, this time something that will take down a whole lot more countries and people to penury.

    About Germany, 1923. In Mar '22 exchange rate was 320 Marks to a $$$. By Dec '22 it had become 8000 Marks to a $$$. In its final stages, by Nov '23, 1 pound of bread was 3 Billion Marks, 1 pound meat, 36 Billion marks and a glass of beer 4 Billion Marks. Thinking Zimbabwe? Marc Faber is convinced the US of A is headed in that direction and he has been consistently one very savvy guy!!!

    So, either way we are in this trouble without any easy way to get out of it. The only way is to slow down consumption, increase savings and rebuild wealth which much of the world is unwilling to do after having become lazy in the boom-boom years of the new century.

    Generally, we are likely to have a much worse time in the next few years than we think before we iron out this depressed global situation.

    Therefore, along with volatility, there will be flat to no growth for a few years to come. This is what happened in Japan and what will happen in much of the World despite all the jawing about how China and India will bail out the world (we have our own problems).

    cheers
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  • I agree ...

    Originally Posted by Maheshk
    i donno when this fight is going to end..someone needs to give up...sometimes valuable posts are getting missed amidst such altercations :(
    sorry nats/wiseman...enough is enough...
    let us make this forum constructive ...pls make the few mins that we spend in this forum be useful for us..



    Mahesh,

    You will note that this joker suddenly responds to a perfectly balanced post with completely tangential rubbish language - I assume that sometimes he goes off his rocker and loses it. Erratic behaviour, to say the least. Like lightning from a clear blue sky! :D

    Please note even his response to your post. Some crap about how he is posting for people to ignore me and he not being bothered about your botheration. When he does this, he crosses the line and invokes sharp responses from various people - sometimes me :D.

    Rarely, I resond in kind (but I do keep the filth out).

    Time to time, someone has to rein in this joker, right?

    cheers
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  • Wiseman,

    If you consider buying flats as an investment, it will be wise to see the growth potential. In the current scenario it may take 4 or 5 years to see their investment double. This is not the case with stocks where we can see the unlimited potential.

    Even in speculating stocks also one can make profit. I recently bought Hemispherx BioPharma (Symbol: HEB) for $1.29 (3000 stocks) even after knowing its volatility.
    I sold 1500 stocks at $3.20. Today it went down to 2.20 and then it climbed it to 3. I still has 1500 stocks left. Even if I sell the remaining stocks at $1.00 (Stop loss), there is still some profit.
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  • If one is buying land or flat primarily for investment, ask yourself, how long it will take to appreciate to your target level? RE is not only the source of investment, explore yourself, hope you will find many which will reap more rewards. In this forum, you can get advice from many directions, it is up to you to pick the right one. As far as I am concerned I found stocks are much more worth than RE.

    Suzlon moves from 90 to 130. I bought it at Rs. 40.
    Bank of Ireland moves from $9 to $11.49. Bought at $1.00.
    Genworth Financials moves to $6.67. Bought at $1.43.
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  • Originally Posted by strongsville
    Useless Nats.
    Excess that fell off from my ass during farting entered into your mouth. Thats why you stink. ROTFL

    Strong I though you were banned? U always suspected that I was the mod! Now how come u r released out of the jail and let loose here? By me? LOL! Enjoy your BS.
    After all u will abuse and then when I retaliate you will cry like a baby. Then Wiseman your paymaster will use that as an excuse to say I abuse him, while infact I just tell facts about the missing grey matter in all ur brains.
    Enjoy Strong! After all u, Wisey and the other bear mouseys here are basically cowards who will go for their mom's pallu at the slightest fear!
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