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Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

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Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

Last updated: October 10 2017
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  • #1381
    #1381

    Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

    Originally posted by SRaj001
    Hmm - mav are you suggesting that when i walk into a brand builder such as prestige / hira or brigade i need to be equally factored from a risk as how a buyer could default on his promise so can the builder ?
    This is far fetched IMHO - we approach a builder with an element of trust - when you got appaswamy what do you think - does it not cross your mind - these guys will deliver on their promise ?
    I dont buy flats from any brands i could care least, but common chennai vasi does and thats the point.
    Again, another word "default on promise" which does not make sense. There is no promise made that the builder will build and deliver no matter what and if that is the case, contract should reflect that. Then, when people make bookings, it is also a promise and why do they walk away. It can't be a one-way street, right? The key context here is, you are not entering in to a contract to buy a produce already made. You are entering in to a contract to buy something which does not even have approvals and seller takes you in to the contract being fully aware that you could walk away. All of these are governed by the contract terms and not what you and I think the builder should do. Force Majeure needs to be reminded and pre-construction discount prices reflect the risks the buyer is willing to take; predominant one being whether the construction will ever take off.

    Common chennaivasi should not buy in a pre-construction project by making a booking amount and taking the building(castle) to the bank. If they do, it is lack of awareness and they need to be educated on risk/reward and explain that there is no free lunch anywhere. The thought of taking it to the bank should germinate after approvals are in place and *construction* commences. If the builder fails after this stage and give up throwing the towel, it reflects on the builder and brand/trust will take a hit.

    If I buy from a builder based on PP presentation, I know what I am getting in to. I will assess how much money I can part with, in various stages commensurate with the risks involved. All the while being fully aware that there is no free lunch compared to buying a finished product and there is a non-zero risk lurking till it is handed over. I suggest/hope you refrain from making allegations without knowing what I buy and who I buy from. There is enough to focus on the merit/holes in what I am saying here and where I disagree with you.



    Originally posted by SRaj001
    What are you talking about - are you suggesting that buying an end-use 3C property in seagull is like buying a TSLA call for 20$ premium -- again far fetched comparison -
    I dont consider seagull investors as speculators including clair and many others known to have invested looked for Enduse only
    Upside was discounted ??? Im puzzled - i thought MAV had the position all builders / developers /promoters forward price by 2-3 years and eat away the premium leaving it dry.
    how come your position is changed for HIRA ?
    My point is, majority of the people book at pre-launch or at power point stage because there is a 15-25% discount (adjusted for various cost and staggering) compared to the final product of a similar or close kind that is available off the shelf today. By making a booking with 10 to 20%, they think they have put a limit on the inflation on the 100% of the cost as the price is locked and that is a perceived free lunch. 10-20% is the call money with a difference of no obligation on the seller part to deliver what he promises. Hope you understood what my position is in this context. I am in no way advocating the free lunch approach to buying a property but differ in your position of attributing "failure/default on promise" on the builder part which cancels the project which is in power point stage(reiteration count: 3)

    Again laying off employees due to economic environment will be cheered by investors of the stock but the employee base's trust will be impacted, i worked and lived through the company that made the most popular programming language of our ages during the boom / doom. The companies that have large scale layoffs still being in admired list is an exception not the norm
    I can show you the list year over year
    Wegmans, Salesforce.com, SAS ( north carolina) , Netapp etc are there in this list for a good reason and layoffs is not one of them
    Employee's trust base will be impacted but how it reflects in the brand overall is determined by how routinely companies layoff[[Hira cancelling few towers in every project as a routine] rather than laying off in environment-induced difficult circumstances is my point. Take a look at some of the globally recognized employers below.

    Below is the list(Click) of companies considered attractive as an employer globally in 2013: In the last 3 years, I know for the fact the following names in the top-10 list had a layoff:
    1. Google - laid off people in M*torola Mobility division in 2012 even before selling the business to Lenovo recently
    2. GS
    3. S*ony [For some reason, IREF filters the name with out the asterisk]
    4. Siemens
    5. Microsoft
    6. JP Morgan
    7 ......
    ............

    My point is, one/few failures or a business decision to do the unthinkable do not affect the brand/trust and they continue to be attractive as employers. You know how it relates to HUS in the way I related in my earlier post.
    Last edited February 21 2014, 07:48 AM.
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    • #1382
      #1382

      Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

      Originally posted by rganeshin
      When a builder is projected as the best and knows to read markets, how can a blunder like sea gull happen.
      It is not a blunder on the builder part and it is a blunder on your assumption that the best builder *always* read the market right. It is for the same reason why even the best physician in the world have health cover and life cover - it happens. Can't they read their health right *always*?

      More than the builder reading the market, buyers should know how to read the risk and avoid them. Shun power point projects and pick RTM if you need certainty and be willing to pay more price. There may not be one. Then, wait till you find one. By then, you may not get your choicest apartment. When you need certainty, that is the tradeoff you need to make. Unfortunately, the way the market operates compels the buyer to take some risk whether we like it or not - at the least, pick projects that have approvals in place and wait for the construction to get off the ground to avoid the non-starters. If you still feel choices won't be good, you have forced yourself to take a chance with the builder and live with the risk that comes along with it. No other way out.
      Last edited February 21 2014, 08:51 AM.
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      • #1383
        #1383

        Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

        Originally posted by SRaj001 View Post
        srivat - i agree its better to cancel than drag out a project
        when you walk into a brand like HIRA - do you really think about
        Builder reputation ?
        Will this builder cause unduly delays
        will this builder cancel this project after 1-2 years
        Please be honest 2 years prior walking into HIRA would you have asked these questions /
        Im talking about a common man in chennai
        Yes before buying I would have thought about Hira, commitment blah blah blah.

        We have seen builders like purva and jains with less than 40% sales dragging their projects in OMR for last 7 years.

        In the midst I would say Hira has been transparent in communicating to buyers that the project does not seem feasible and returned their money with interest.

        By doing this they have definitively maintained their brand value. How many builders do really pay the money with interest on their own?

        If I had been an investor in this tower would have definitively felt bad but would have felt worse in case the builder delays it forever like others does.
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        • #1384
          #1384

          Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

          For this reason, I always advocate modified terms and conditions that suits the buyer (or his interest) when someone enters an agreement with builders. It is a big lesson for Chennaites not to trust any brand and make sure they modify all terms and conditions where they are not end up risking their investment, especially when it involves end use, out of hefty loan payments. We actually do not know how many buyers actually received the entire money, with interest etc...(on similar note, Palace Gardens, many guyers still got stuck with their 80-90% without seeing their apartment unit).

          Safe bet is finished unit even if it is second hand!
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          • #1385
            #1385

            Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

            Originally posted by vivcraze View Post
            REC - thanks for your reply. So here is how things are at this point. With respect to Amalfi, thre was no mention about PVC on the quotation. So one was to believe that you were pretty much signing up for a fixed base price. The sale deed that comes 2 months later has the Escalation clauses with respect to Construction. The clause is a ridiculous one, practially passing on increase in material and labor costs to end users over the period of next 52 months. For amalfi, one could be looking at an additional 6 - 35 lacs on top of the originally projected price quoted in the quotation. This is totally ridiculous and not acceptable. Also, looks like even with no signed deed in place, as customers we stand to lose 1% of the total cost as penalty, if we want to bail out now.

            I am stuck in a bit of a limbo here. Seems like exiting at this point (having paid 30% down already) seems to be a good option. Do you know anyone who has negotiated to get the clause removed from the contract?

            I just don't understand who will now book an apartment in Amalfi or Tiana. So, one enters at a rate when you enter the contract but the rate can totally change over the course of next 4-5 years. In case of run away escalation, we are royally screwed. So going forward the only option left to buy an apartment would be to buy a ready to move in place. If that is the case, not sure how the builders are going to finance their operations. Seems like a catch 22 situation.

            Also, not sure how folks who have a great exposure to bank loans will manage the escalation factor.

            Seems like you walk into a restaurant and the menu prices would not be visible to you until you actually finish eating.
            With the above PVC clause, how does one analyse this project from either enduse or investment point of view...All analysis posted earlier for TIANA ( there was one by K11) goes for a toss with such an open ended clause...You don't know what you are getting into...
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            • #1386
              #1386

              Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

              Originally posted by infoseek View Post
              With the above PVC clause, how does one analyse this project from either enduse or investment point of view...All analysis posted earlier for TIANA ( there was one by K11) goes for a toss with such an open ended clause...You don't know what you are getting into...
              Can you list the reasons why you want buy an unit in Tiana. I can list the reasons why you shouldn’t buy an unit in Tiana:
              - PVC clause. Heard it for the first time in Chennai (kudos to big builders like Hira). Idea of using mivan tech was to speed up the construction progress. E.g. Nivans startwoods able to complete 14 storey tower in less than 1.5 years. Inspite of their experience in high rise builders, Hira want to impose the PVC on the buyers on which buyer have no control of.
              - Expected lead time of 6 years +.
              - Specification for Tiana is very ordinary though you are still paying premium (in my opinion) 5000 to 5600 rs/sqft (which is still above most of the builders in the area).
              - Extra charges what you pay for an 2 BHK unit is high (~9 lakhs) for 1195 sqft.
              - No sea view but nice OMR view. May be appasamy projects would give a better OMR view if you really want it.
              - If you are looking at 3 BHK, floor plan doesn’t look good.
              - What about the maintenance cost since the builder is going to do the maintenance. Do you have any control of it?
              - What about the club membership? Do you get free access to all the facilities provided???
              What is surprising is some of the forum members are backing Hira for being transparent and happy that they have returned the money with interest after 2 years. Good eg., is sea gull which was launched 2 years back. Total cost of seagull is over 5C. You got to make 20% + initial deposit within one month of booking (> 1 crore+). SR quite rightly pointed out the lost opportunity in that time period. I can come up with a list of areas / projects which has gone 20%+ (minimum) in the 2 year time period. In some cases, you could have totally missed an project of your liking. In my opinion, HIRA is strictly for end-use only (don’t even bother about VFM) and one who is self-financing and ready for long haul. If I am going buy an unit in Hira, I would never buy in Tiana rather spend little more and atleast look at amalfi as a minimum or preferred would something like oceanic or bay view.
              Last edited February 21 2014, 05:18 PM.
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              • #1387
                #1387

                Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

                Refresh your memory .

                I was the one told that PVC started with Amalfi for infoseeks post and it is started to Tiana too.

                It is prudent to get out of Amalfi If things are not workable . That was my advice to many who booked including sknanna ,a forum member here

                What else can you do here without knowing anything about Construction and clauses just by booking 60-70 lacs budget flats in PBV


                Occupancy . Who asked you to Bother and it's for the owners and investors to bother.

                The buyer who got the surprise PVC need to pull out boldly by claiming interest charges or change it . As simple as that .

                This project is not meant for people like you who have holed pockets but for sound one who understand and wait . Do not faint

                It is for the customers to see what it costs for military cut and Desired cut and sit in saloon knowingly provided money is in the pocket or else something will be cut .

                What do you try to say ?

                RTM flat is always perfect . I have chosen my recent Invesment in 3 BHK of Phase 2 almost close to the cost of 4 BHK Oceanic flat way back in 2009 when I has plenty of resale flats in Phase 1 at 30-40% discount .

                I did not choose because I know the difference between each tower and spec . As simple as that . I do not bother about 30-50 lacs difference for Spec ,View and Where it is positioned


                I will not buy into Amalfi and Tiana with PVC and will refrain in toto as lead time is more than 6-7 years from today .

                Seagull was planned , sufficient bookings not received and dropped by decently by paying back Advance with interest and of course alternative flats in finished towers at attractive rate was offered for interested customers . Some chose to go away and many booked in offered towers .

                Now pulling seagull and Hira is not correct . If they had not paid advance nor allowed customers to pull out when construction is is at foundation level, then we can take the mud and spil all over




                Originally posted by rganeshin View Post
                Well the pitch dark area is giving the sunny side up a run for its money with its clear and visible end product with realistic approach. The sunny side is not able to compete with the pitch darkness on occupancy rates

                I do believe and know customization as a normal practice is smoothly happening right from small and medium builders to big ones. That cant be a valid reason for PVC.

                I can see a visible post posted just now from an shocked buyer who came to know about the PVC clause...most probably not mentioned by the marketing team. Well this project is not for the faint hearted nor for people who have money and wants a quality product. but for someone who can understand PERT , CPM and gestation periods.

                Despite buying scissors either for hundred rupees or thousand rupees, its the talent in the hand and clear knowledge in the mind which can deliver.

                U cant do a military cut and ask for a step cutting half way.
                Last edited February 22 2014, 12:00 AM.
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                • #1388
                  #1388

                  Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

                  Originally posted by sundarjp View Post
                  I can come up with a list of areas / projects which has gone 20%+ (minimum) in the 2 year time period. In some cases, you could have totally missed an project of your liking.
                  Good points, @sundarjp.

                  But I think probably customers might be happy with money with interest.

                  Market has slowed down a lot. Returns have plateaued in RE.
                  I am not saying there isn't a market which gained 20%+. It is possible.
                  But not every area/project went up a lot in the last year or so.
                  Also the question is which Seagull alternative went up a lot in the same time period.

                  I feel Seagull customers did not miss a lot. There are good deals to be made even now.
                  I do think market is running away, elections/slowdown is all a good time for buyers.
                  Most high end apts are in the city, from what I know there is not a big movement in this period. Even if there is a big move it is less than the ongoing interest rate.

                  It is easy to backtest when when we know the returns.
                  But it difficult to make the right decision during that time in that market condition.

                  Again this is my personal opinion.
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                  • #1389
                    #1389

                    Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

                    I too feel that I am in pitch dark side and Club house will be like other Townships . But to my surprise , Resorts like atmosphere along side of back water with Bright lights in night and torching day lights in day have been developed from Oceanic to Green wood .

                    USA Company has been roped in to manage and maintain the Club and Pevonia who established in FHCRI in Gurgaon in India was asked to furnish and offer similar facilities over here by HUS

                    I could see what is there in Gurgaon here in OMR . Soon to be inaugurated by March end

                    Here the " Truth glows like light in Dark night "

                    BLUE TURTLE in Sandy Beach is somewhat catching

                    Pevonia Fitness & Spa



                    P.S : Saloon area where we see scissors costs like this

                    Hair cut 500 and for rest, you can see the Menu List .

                    None of the Builders who promised township offered like this world class service provider so far . The Phase 2. Club is having 3 large size pools to complement phase 1
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                    • #1390
                      #1390

                      Re : Hiranandani Upscale House of Hiranandani OMR Chennai

                      Originally posted by k11
                      It is easy to backtest when when we know the returns.
                      But it difficult to make the right decision during that time in that market condition.
                      Absolutely. Not just the market, given one's needs and constraints, there may not have been better alternatives. I do not know how many booked in Seagull after carefully evaluating similar choices available at that time. Many can jump in with apples and oranges as alternatives but they don't count. One can come up with returns table for comparison but they are still likely to be clueless on why people chose seagull and returns may not have mattered to many when they made the decision on Seagull.

                      To my knowledge, only Clairvoyant is the member I know. He was so methodical and transparent in what led to this decision of picking Seagull and I do not recollect whether his post after his decision dwelled on alternatives but usually he shares his thought process and why he chose knowing what he can live with. Very few I have seen who does with the alacrity he does. Hopefully, he has time to visit this thread to share his views.

                      Hindsight is always 20-20 and some of the perennial pessimists who does not even trust what they see(extreme paranoia ) may have gotten it right not because of Clairvoyance (sorry for the pun) - because even broken clock is right two times in a day. By being right on calling out delays on a long gestational GCs have the same odds of kids getting it right; we should know how to separate decisions and outcomes.

                      My earlier post on why investors should be evaluated on decisions rather than outcomes applies to this as well. Manier times, your constraints and needs make you to swallow higher risk than you may have desired for the lack of better choices that can suit their tolerance.
                      Last edited February 22 2014, 12:49 PM.
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