No exclusive thread for Hiranandani Upscale OMR project. Thought of creating one so that we can follow the developments, Rental yields, Issues and other topics.

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  • I am not supporting or opposing, but what would be the objective?

    Forget UDS we may not know its worth more importantly its relevance unless you cannot form majority considering the land acquisition legislation yet be passed.

    HIRA or any good builder would provide good amenities if you choose to live and really can enjoy (once all aspects of the project get completed which we may not know how long it will take) its rich life style when it gets realised as promised. They will definitely provide hassle free maintenance at premium cost but may well worth it.

    This is a good for those who have lots of money, no investment need but enjoy its life style.

    It might fetch decent (I really doubt about big numbers but it will fetch better than others for sure) rent but will it be sufficient to offset investment ? If someone is lucky to get expats continuously they really fetch good rent - hope there will be limited competition in this front.

    For investment purpose I am not sure but may definitely get you mid term returns until some point where scope for redevelopment is distantly remote.

    Long term perspective, not sure since there is no holding on the property and ultimately excellent experience in HIRA cannot be transferred as sale unless HIRA agrees to it after 20-30 years.

    Those who are buying with an exit plan within 5-10 years might benefit.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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  • Originally Posted by rprabakar
    If a buyer is interested in benefiting from UDS, he or she can buy 450 sq.ft land at today's price and keep it for 20 years to realize the required appreciation. Objective of buying into such a costly apartment like Hira is not purely for UDS.



    Friend,

    The concern some are expressing is not just about the land share and resale/redevelopment value. As you say, for people who are investing in the HIRA brand the land share may be insignificant. They are investing in a self-sustained community and are buying living "space" not "land". If you stay in HIRA upscale, you would only say that you are living in Hiranandani and never as Egattur, such is the impact of the upscale township. It will become a locality such as T.Nagar, Adyar.

    The question is more about how the builder intends to use the land he withheld from buyers. As per regulation the builder has to register land share as per FSI of the building.As clearly stated above the wide roads, open spaces is alloted due to the same regulation. Agreed that the 10% land withheld from buyers is being used to get higher floors and buy premium FSI for new towers but what is the guarentee some new structures wont come up in the vacant spaces shown in the master plan if say goverment allows structures which are exempted from FSI in future? What recourse do you have? Can you object? No.

    This is similar to land promoters launching small layouts as annexures to phase 1 so that they dont have to allocate parks and schools each time. Because the development is in phases the builder is keeping their options open.HIRA has still not clarified how they are going to deal with EWS regulation. As speculated Most likely they will come up with a 5-star hotel/service apartments and attribute it to the regulation. The builder has clearly by their actions shown that they are not in charity business and they will utilize any loop hole if it exists. So it is only prudent to know all the potential risks and then decide as a potential buyer.
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  • How many OMR high rises have 10 % EWS?
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  • I tried to come up with list of projects in OMR that didn't reveal their plan on EWS regulation:

    https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/chennai-real-estate/37427-are-builders-hiding-their-1-bhk-units?t=39154

    Couldn't keep it up to date, will appreciate if people tracking recent developments can update this list regularly so that buyers are kept aware and we won't allow builders to conceal this key information from prospective buyers.
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  • what is the guarentee some new structures wont come up in the vacant spaces shown in the master plan if say goverment allows structures which are exempted from FSI in future? What recourse do you have?


    My initial impression was Hira maxing out on FSI should add comfort that there cannot be any more structures that could spring up a surprise. Is it possible to have independent structures (not the allied ones which are built for serving others) that are excluded from FSI? Is there any precedence in the past for similar exempt cases?

    Hard to imagine what could it be and whether anything could ever be feasible on those lines.

    Mav
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  • Originally Posted by maverick007
    My initial impression was Hira maxing out on FSI should add comfort that there cannot be any more structures that could spring up a surprise. Is it possible to have independent structures (not the allied ones which are built for serving others) that are excluded from FSI? Is there any precedence in the past for similar exempt cases?

    Hard to imagine what could it be and whether anything could ever be feasible on those lines.

    Mav


    The point I am trying to make is - as long as the builder owns more land than they ought to, There is nothing to stop them from using it to buy more FSI or keep exploiting it for their benefit. The buyers are at disadavantage always. The open space is protected only if its divided and registered in the name of the buyers.

    Most builders are retaining the right to allocate open parking at their discretion. They are not FSI bound. So, tomorrow if the builder decides to use the open area space for parking and rent it to Buses plying to IT companies.Technically they cannot be questioned is my understanding. Why would you trust a private builder wont do it, when the government themselves are looking to convert playgrounds in the city to parking spaces.

    For land layouts there is an option to buy OSR. The same may apply tomorrow to vacant spaces between apartment complexes too. In that case, the builder can pay money and use the unshared land and use it build a hospital.

    Several states are considering FSI exemptions and relaxation for Private hospitals, EWS units, Structures that serve social purpose etc.

    Government proposes extra 1.5 floor space index for private hospitals - Times Of India

    So it sure is a possibility Hiranandani will come up with a hospital in Egattur like in other cities.I dont see it in the master plan of Upscale as of now.

    If the Builder decides to get greedy, the buyers have to protect themselves legally. From what I am hearing the buyer is no way protected and heavily reliant on HIRA behaving like a saint. Business transactions cannot happen only based on Trust. I havent gone through HIRA agreement, so cant say exactly what are the promises of the builder. HIRA owners can clarify how their interests are being protected. If I am wrong, I will stand corrected.
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  • There is an open space between towers where Hira can construct new tower. Sounds good for new babies. This open space on stilt level is covered and interlinked by 2-3 level basement car parking slots with all towers in each Phase without deep pile foundation but by 3 floors constructions design pillars for car slots in down side .As these car slots are already conveyed to owners and marked and money received, this bottom area belongs to owners always . How come Hira can drill and construct???

    Only upto 10000 sq mtr area, builder can purchase OSR at GV or Rate fixed by Govt or Market. But for more than that 10000 sq.mtr, necessarily 10% need to be allocated for OSR which will be controlled by CMDA and subsequently handed over to COC either for own development or at the cost of builder. CHAITANYA builders director in MRC NGR took control 10-12 grounds allocated under OSR which was used as dump yard against the basic purpose of builder and residents were returned back to Residents and becoming a good park since COC do not have money to develop and maintain that park per se.

    Hence the additional inter space belong to owners logically due to bottom car paeking slots which constitute additional 10% , set back ,garden,park allocated around the tower in backwater constitutes another 10% , Wide road, club,school,hospital,SEZ,service apartements ,Hotels etc with open space constitute another 10% totalling to 30% with conveyed UDS of 10% which fetch them 3.5 FSI and buyers indirectly more UDS .

    BTW, Plinth area is more than Carpet area as we discussed in other thread and need RO be debated further.. ready with shells.

    Seeing is believing. Understanding comes after Acquisition .

    Because knowledge is WASTE in this Internet forum as INFORMATION is GREAT but Knowledge and Information is always double edged sword so that one can twist in any angle.

    Those invested in Crores are neither fools nor Smart in knowing all these things except very few who did ground work with calculations and computations .

    100 feet road has been already gifted . Vertical growth comes in only from shrinking Horizontal area by leaving so much for actual use.

    Those who have more space can only afford to go vertically by leaving so much space around provided they take care in each day in and day out beautifully and elegantly of course at cost.

    By reducing space between blocks and conveying entire UDS to Buyers or keeping more space to set up Tes stall and Shoe polish area and escaping or abandoning from the site is good in UDS angle but not in Living angle for long .

    It is upto one to take it or leave it without or with UNDERSTANDING .

    We can not discuss FSI ,UDS ,FURURE REDEVELOPMENT in one angle when the CONCEPT is totally different and emulating one

    Originally Posted by nabishek
    The point I am trying to make is - as long as the builder owns more land than they ought to, There is nothing to stop them from using it to buy more FSI or keep exploiting it for their benefit. The buyers are at disadavantage always. The open space is protected only if its divided and registered in the name of the buyers.

    Most builders are retaining the right to allocate open parking at their discretion. They are not FSI bound. So, tomorrow if the builder decides to use the open area space for parking and rent it to Buses plying to IT companies.Technically they cannot be questioned is my understanding. Why would you trust a private builder wont do it, when the government themselves are looking to convert playgrounds in the city to parking spaces.

    For land layouts there is an option to buy OSR. The same may apply tomorrow to vacant spaces between apartment complexes too. In that case, the builder can pay money and use the unshared land and use it build a hospital.

    Several states are considering FSI exemptions and relaxation for Private hospitals, EWS units, Structures that serve social purpose etc.

    Government proposes extra 1.5 floor space index for private hospitals - Times Of India

    So it sure is a possibility Hiranandani will come up with a hospital in Egattur like in other cities.I dont see it in the master plan of Upscale as of now.

    If the Builder decides to get greedy, the buyers have to protect themselves legally. From what I am hearing the buyer is no way protected and heavily reliant on HIRA behaving like a saint. Business transactions cannot happen only based on Trust. I havent gone through HIRA agreement, so cant say exactly what are the promises of the builder. HIRA owners can clarify how their interests are being protected. If I am wrong, I will stand corrected.
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  • As many Projects as possible who launched projects on more than 2.5 acres and it is for the CMDA to crack,control and implement .

    If anyone offers prefab homes, low cost construction house like Gujarat builder.....find the name , we all can afford to buy .

    Originally Posted by radnats
    How many OMR high rises have 10 % EWS?
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  • Originally Posted by RaviCbe
    There is an open space between towers where Hira can construct new tower. Sounds good for new babies. This open space on stilt level is covered and interlinked by 2-3 level basement car parking slots with all towers in each Phase without deep pile foundation but by 3 floors constructions design pillars for car slots in down side .As these car slots are already conveyed to owners and marked and money received, this bottom area belongs to owners always . How come Hira can drill and construct???

    Only upto 10000 sq mtr area, builder can purchase OSR at GV or Rate fixed by Govt or Market. But for more than that 10000 sq.mtr, necessarily 10% need to be allocated for OSR which will be controlled by CMDA and subsequently handed over to COC either for own development or at the cost of builder. CHAITANYA builders director in MRC NGR took control 10-12 grounds allocated under OSR which was used as dump yard against the basic purpose of builder and residents were returned back to Residents and becoming a good park since COC do not have money to develop and maintain that park per se.

    Hence the additional inter space belong to owners logically due to bottom car paeking slots which constitute additional 10% , set back ,garden,park allocated around the tower in backwater constitutes another 10% , Wide road, club,school,hospital,SEZ,service apartements ,Hotels etc with open space constitute another 10% totalling to 30% with conveyed UDS of 10% which fetch them 3.5 FSI and buyers indirectly more UDS .

    BTW, Plinth area is more than Carpet area as we discussed in other thread and need RO be debated further.. ready with shells.

    Seeing is believing. Understanding comes after Acquisition .

    Because knowledge is WASTE in this Internet forum as INFORMATION is GREAT but Knowledge and Information is always double edged sword so that one can twist in any angle.

    Those invested in Crores are neither fools nor Smart in knowing all these things except very few who did ground work with calculations and computations .

    100 feet road has been already gifted . Vertical growth comes in only from shrinking Horizontal area by leaving so much for actual use.

    Those who have more space can only afford to go vertically by leaving so much space around provided they take care in each day in and day out beautifully and elegantly of course at cost.

    By reducing space between blocks and conveying entire UDS to Buyers or keeping more space to set up Tes stall and Shoe polish area and escaping or abandoning from the site is good in UDS angle but not in Living angle for long .

    It is upto one to take it or leave it without or with UNDERSTANDING .

    We can not discuss FSI ,UDS ,FURURE REDEVELOPMENT in one angle when the CONCEPT is totally different and emulating one


    Dear Ravicbe,

    I think you are getting too defensive unncessarily. I am not talking about drilling between existing towers of phase 1. Members of this forum and internet in general arent so naive and ignorant as you arrogantly presume. I am talking of introduction of new structures in subsequent phases using FSI bought showing land they have withheld from phase 1 buyers. The exact 10% which you have attributed to "Wide road, club,school,hospital,SEZ,service apartements ,Hotels etc with open space constitute another 10%" Can you be confident and confirm that HIRA have frozen their master plan?Then why dont we see the EWS/hotel/hospital etc in it? It would be helpful if you can also share how buyers are protected from being heavily relient on HIRA? Whats the recourse in case something goes wrong?like HIRA going bankrupt or unable to maintain.Do the owner association have the right to take over and manage the entire township themselves? Anything can happen in the next 100 years which you have stated is the life of the building.

    I can understand you have bought into the idea of Hirandandani creating brand and immense value for the project. All the best to you. You may be comfortable not questioning them. But in my opinion, HIRA is keeping their options open and are not being transparent about future plans for the township. I have made my point and its upto readers to interpret. Facts and Information is perceived based on individual bias.To question is my right, and If I dont get clear answers and only castles in the air stories I will remain with the same opinion and not be convinced otherwise.
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  • If one needs QOL (good build quality flat, closer to workplace, school & other amenities within campus, large community living, good approach road ..etc) then Hira is a good choice. Not sure of Hira, from an ROI perspective.

    If we look mainly for ROI, purchasing a land or an old resale flat (with high UDS) might be a better idea

    Originally Posted by Ramchi
    I am not supporting or opposing, but what would be the objective?
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  • Originally Posted by maverick007
    My initial impression was Hira maxing out on FSI should add comfort that there cannot be any more structures that could spring up a surprise. Is it possible to have independent structures (not the allied ones which are built for serving others) that are excluded from FSI? Is there any precedence in the past for similar exempt cases?

    Hard to imagine what could it be and whether anything could ever be feasible on those lines.

    Mav


    He mentioned about free of FSI structures, even recently government has permitted developers to construct muti-level car park free of FSI. If there is more demand for car park and buyers are willing to pay 9 lakhs or more (current price of Hira car park), there is nothing to stop them from putting up a multi-level car park.
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  • nabishek:

    You have raised pertinent questions which the current owners and prospective buyers should ask Hira. Hira may not or can provide answers but owners and prospects asking them has no cost associated - so they should.

    Your questions were breath of fresh air in highlighting the risk factors in a level headed manner in this thread. Reasoning supporting those questions were sound and your questions went beyond the UDS value as it pertains to investment value and losing out on redevelopment potential - none of which were supported by good reasoning.

    The point you are raising is about leaving the rights to Hira and going with the trust that Hira wont misuse it - as much as Hira thinks that taking control of UDS will ensure the effective governance in maintaining the living standard, they should provide equal comfort for the buyers at large by protecting the risk opened up by taking the very same UDS to make the misuse risk as nil.

    Mav
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  • I did not arrogantly presume but adequately posted to someone who posts out of Context without any ideas and not against your posts amd views .

    Let me clarify . Total master plan for the township sprawling in 110 acres can not be prepared overnight with changed rules and regulation from time to time but plan can be prepared based on existing rules for next 2- 4 years and accordingly they marked Phase 1 and 2 in master plan clearly by earmarking space,Compound wall,slots,amenities etc leaving the future phases. There are no space withheld from phase 1 and 2 buyers that can be used for future phases as comprehended by you. As such they freezed the Road,club house,schools very clearly and gifted roads to Local Body along with OSR .

    Hence 28 floors constructed in phase 1 was not disturbed though they managed to get 36 floors for Bayview, 31 floors for Edina and 45 floors for Seagull with changed rule and increased FSI . It will affect extra land in those areas where Seagull is coming up ...they have to allocate more space to take care of that vertical growth and increased car slots .

    SA, SEZ,HOTEL,HOSPITAL etc will be taken up when township is halfway through that is phase 2 is over with Amalfi and Seagull by 2020 in reality.There are spaces marked for all these things but not shown in layout since it has not been taken for construction nor for approval with plan .

    Hence completed Phase 1 is well insulated with rights on opens pace, roads,amenities,School etc in secured way .Same too applies for Phase 2 .

    If Hira goes bankrupt, his bankers have got the right to appoint suitable developer in remaining phases and blocks without disturbing the existing completed phases with same roads entry and exit with proposed towers only with the consent of Existing Owners . Hira is holding the rights on space around buildings only to beautify with park,garden ,trees etc in such a way that it adds value to the buildings but not to construct in small way anything other than that as per agreement clause and terms . If this is handed over to Assn, Each Assn may misuse as per their whims and fancies which will alter the image of township which houses Residential,Commercial,SA,Hotels,Hospital,School etc are the cause of concern and copy of concept from Mumbai

    Hence nearby school, SA,SEZ,HOTEL,HOSPITAL will not come up as School layout has been frozen .

    IMO, It will take another 30 years to exhaust 60 acres ( 5 years taken for exhausting 10 acres) since around 40 acres will be towards OSR,EWS,OPEN SPACE,ROADS ,AMENITIES etc

    If Hira goes bankrupt after completing the construction of township and goes bankrupt, Owners will effectively take control and maintain and manage the township when individually , Assn is formed for each tower and phase level and managed in micro level at tower level for day to day living.

    Hira too will award the Contract for each service to Reputed contractors to maintain as per terms stipulated and it is not going to be deterrent factor in any way.

    Originally Posted by nabishek
    Dear Ravicbe,

    I think you are getting too defensive unncessarily. I am not talking about drilling between existing towers of phase 1. Members of this forum and internet in general arent so naive and ignorant as you arrogantly presume. I am talking of introduction of new structures in subsequent phases using FSI bought showing land they have withheld from phase 1 buyers. The exact 10% which you have attributed to "Wide road, club,school,hospital,SEZ,service apartements ,Hotels etc with open space constitute another 10%" Can you be confident and confirm that HIRA have frozen their master plan?Then why dont we see the EWS/hotel/hospital etc in it? It would be helpful if you can also share how buyers are protected from being heavily relient on HIRA? Whats the recourse in case something goes wrong?like HIRA going bankrupt or unable to maintain.Do the owner association have the right to take over and manage the entire township themselves? Anything can happen in the next 100 years which you have stated is the life of the building.

    I can understand you have bought into the idea of Hirandandani creating brand and immense value for the project. All the best to you. You may be comfortable not questioning them. But in my opinion, HIRA is keeping their options open and are not being transparent about future plans for the township. I have made my point and its upto readers to interpret. Facts and Information is perceived based on individual bias.To question is my right, and If I dont get clear answers and only castles in the air stories I will remain with the same opinion and not be convinced otherwise.
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  • Dear Ravicbe,
    i find Abishek's argument quite logical and your overflowing information and facts does not amend the basic fact that Hira holds the right over land whereas the buyers do not. Buyers rights are not completely protected.
    You and everyone else may have faith in Hira and with due respect to Hira, it may live up to its credentials. Yet, its a fact that buyers interests remain unprotected, though it may not be exploited.
    While discussing the risks, it definitely springs up as a risk and has to be considered while investing if the buyer has not thought about it before.
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  • Each buyers interest is protected in his particular tower adequately while all towers owners interest are adequately covered in common areas like Road,Amenities,School,Hospital etc which is maintained and managed by Hira or their Contractors is the concept of Township.

    If each tower and it's sorrounding phase beyond compound wall is disturbed due to increased FSI as ownership control lies with Hira ,then it is a serious risk one should take note of it and refrain but it is not so is my information which is overflowing and not otherwise. We have witnessed its implication in the last 6 years .

    Originally Posted by harikharan
    Dear Ravicbe,
    i find Abishek's argument quite logical and your overflowing information and facts does not amend the basic fact that Hira holds the right over land whereas the buyers do not. Buyers rights are not completely protected.
    You and everyone else may have faith in Hira and with due respect to Hira, it may live up to its credentials. Yet, its a fact that buyers interests remain unprotected, though it may not be exploited.
    While discussing the risks, it definitely springs up as a risk and has to be considered while investing if the buyer has not thought about it before.
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