Welcome to 2010, to Chennai and see how the RE market revs up in a one way ticket to the moon. That is also true of Stock market in India though one sharp dip to wipe out scared folks will happen in the early part. So as Nifty creates a new high later the new year you will realise why if you missed buying in 2009 your favourite land or flat in Chennai you never are going to get it and certainly for nothing less than 50% upwards.
Welcome to the bull in RE in 2010. Happy new year.
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  • it would be plinth area carpet area is lesser
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  • for sure your a vetti officer

    Originally Posted by Almighty
    If you came the hard way that is not my problem. If you read under the street lamp that is not my problem. If after reading under the street lamp you somehow escaped to USA with borrowed money and suddenly thought the rest in India are reading under street lamp that is your foolishness. How do you know if I am talking about father's money/property.
    The problem with guys like you is you have assumed the rest of India is like you. And the best joke you said is about fools like you making US invest in India. You have no idea about me.
    Just a quick one. I have nothing to do physically with Saligramam, I have never lived there not even in a radius of 10km from there. I just have property there.
    As for education I did not study under the street light. I had brains to get into IIT Madras. As for seeing beyond Saligramam, I have had the opportunity to visit/stay in atleast 11 other countries other than India and that includes your Uncle Sam crap.
    You must have gone from a poor India of the 60s or of the confused India of 70s or the herd mentality India of 80s. I have travelled abroad through out late 80s, entire 90s and early 2000s. I have made my money and to tell your sick self have made my money from the day I left home after bachelors in IIT to go to IISc on my own earnings. Not on borrowings like you. Ofcourse I was not the street light wala so did not have to spend money on family. We have a more saner family. So if you did not have it that is your problem.
    The problem you NRI has done is present India like a beggars paradise. Indians were always well off and if your silly Bald eagles talk about US$2 per day it is not small. The problem is half baked, half brained fools like you escaped to US when the drain block was released and you dont represent India either in culture or brains. Just that you were yet another beggar who escaped from India's shores. You are the sort of fellows who have brought disrepute to India.
    Even today with a USD 2 per day income people in India live a decent life. Remember one does not need gizmos, they need life. Indians of those days and even today those from Sane families in smaller cities LIVE LIFE. Not like you ACT AS IF YOU LIVE. Your being in US or driving a Benz is not Life. The Indian of yesterday could breathe, eat, and ALSO SLEEP WELL. He could appreciate life. Some NRIs like you brought UNWANTED TASTE to the local here, confused him with all junk wants and so he is confused.
    Eating shit lays chips (I too have to do!) makes an Indra Nooyi famous. However what shit Pepsi and she does is no better than the local Chipwala. So you are enamoured by Numbers, not sense. Money is just a vehicle of economics. So if for USD 2 I can get to live with my family and friends and it costs you USD 2000 to travel to India to see them, it does not make your seeing your family anything worthwhile than mine. Just your hardup ego after living under street light makes you feel you have achieved something.
    There are millions in India who have also read under street light like you and are yet living here, very decent life, not cleaning the KAKOOS (Lavatory) of the white skinned US wala.
    India has made it big becaue in the 80s folks like me with CS degrees made a mark. I have worked in your famous multinationals have kicked the arse of your american guys from India and they have respected me since I had the right thing in my head aka brains. They yet treat fellows like you with Dollar salaries, what they give their cleaners, because you are in USA, but well that salary is again just because you escaped to US by mistake and then they have to meet your cost of living as a beggar there and also for you to send morsels to your family here. I bet some in your family must have done it big, sitting in India itself and when you come back you are treated to disdain by them.
    In summary, keep you NRI shit to yourself. You guys went abroad when you did not know to survive here. Now you want people in India not to develop giving all flimsy reasons, as if we grew because of you being there as if Indian markets grew because you represented us. What a crap?
    They are tapping the huge potential of Indian intelligent labour, not some fools who escaped through the drain hole long ago like you.
    To add more stuff, I have lived in Canada, US for months and was a PR in Singapore at some point of time. Job neccessitate such needs but I always knew what was the advantage of each. Living in India is for calmness, in US for advancement (not like you to get beggar salaries and send morsels home!) in Canada for exent life if you can stand deepze and in Singapore for business. If I am making a comment here about NRIs per se, it is because the majority of you are like you, escaped from Indian suffering, suddenly saw something big and thought you had grown. There is a saying in tamil, Arpanukku Bhavishu Vandal, Arda Rathrile Kodai pidipaan. (A beggar who suddenly sees wealth will carry an umbrella in the middle of the night.) Such NRIs are the ones I am talking about.
    There are sane ones. Take that guy who got the Noble. He is clear about his priorities. Ofcourse the press can misquote him and then compare if Noble and IIT have relevance or if CMC Vellore and Noble are comparable.
    There are NRIs in the Gulf and Africa who are making a living knowing fully well why they are doing it. The problem is with the half bred NRIs of North America. They were like the arpan, and the more ancient they are the worse they behave. Those who left for US in the late 90s and 2000s have faced a better environment in India and are more than happy to return. It is only the confused folks like you who are neither sure here not there.
    Just a final advice. Get your brains checked. All the best.


    can anyone who really has a life write this long comments??? funny, you talking about life :) Well i was bored and so had time to read your crap. Well im happy for it now as it was so funny.

    BTW, why did you assume i am from the 20th century?? Why did you assume that i borrowed money and came?? And what is this 60's, 70's and crap?? r u a poet too now ?? For you information i am from the 21st century and recently came to the US. (2007) I had a good job in India and came to the US with my earning and a good scholarship. So dont assume if you dont know.

    Y i come here and did not stay in India is none of your business. Where you stay and where you shit is none of my concern. Jus dont offend any one in a public forum particularly if you dont have a role in that community.

    I have no time to argue with your idiotic paranoid view word by word. You are the only sole intelligent person in the whole world ah... ok. In that case i would like to be a fool with the rest of the others.

    gokul
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  • Lets cool it folks!

    Folks,

    As far as I have seen Almighty (Nats) keeps his cool and only posts to the point (generally).

    From time to time he goes off on a tangent, but so does everyone once in a while right? (except maybe Abishek, etc :D).

    So, why not allow Nats to go on about NRI, Bull roaring away to the moon and all that and focus on the actual data? Thats his opinion and he is entitled to it (so long as there is no bad language and personal attacks). After all, time will tell us which way the moon is - up or down!:D:D

    cheers
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  • Wiseman as long as the Bulls and the Bears tangle without any offense to a group of people its a exent discussion. After all this is place where you gain knowledge to make your own decision regarding RE in India and thanx for imparting your knowledge and hypotheses on the subject.
    CAN
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  • Originally Posted by can
    So you had a drink with Uncle Sam ehooo
    Good for you boy or old fart. Going to the slums by you is good news from almighty but for what reason? You IITens who think others are garbage and sit on their big fat ego. You never answered as to what you call the person who works in your house, economics I suppose You could not clean up after you so you had to run back to India to get others to do your
    dirty job! and feed your body and soul with glee
    CAN

    All I told you buddy is you work in USA in a way you wont do in India. Will you clean hotel tables and live in India, what you did in US. Dont bother about egos, I was writing the original reply to a guy who was assuming I was sitting on my dad's money. I dont need to have an ego just because I am an IITian, I can have it even without it, when EVEN YOU CAN, CAN have it!!
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  • Originally Posted by gokulkrish2
    can anyone who really has a life write this long comments??? funny, you talking about life :) Well i was bored and so had time to read your crap. Well im happy for it now as it was so funny.

    BTW, why did you assume i am from the 20th century?? Why did you assume that i borrowed money and came?? And what is this 60's, 70's and crap?? r u a poet too now ?? For you information i am from the 21st century and recently came to the US. (2007) I had a good job in India and came to the US with my earning and a good scholarship. So dont assume if you dont know.

    Y i come here and did not stay in India is none of your business. Where you stay and where you shit is none of my concern. Jus dont offend any one in a public forum particularly if you dont have a role in that community.

    I have no time to argue with your idiotic paranoid view word by word. You are the only sole intelligent person in the whole world ah... ok. In that case i would like to be a fool with the rest of the others.

    gokul

    You went begging to US since you were not paid well for your street light education in India..right? Take it easy buddy, you are most welcome to beg in US.
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  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Folks,

    As far as I have seen Almighty (Nats) keeps his cool and only posts to the point (generally).

    From time to time he goes off on a tangent, but so does everyone once in a while right? (except maybe Abishek, etc :D).

    So, why not allow Nats to go on about NRI, Bull roaring away to the moon and all that and focus on the actual data? Thats his opinion and he is entitled to it (so long as there is no bad language and personal attacks). After all, time will tell us which way the moon is - up or down!:D:D

    cheers

    That is a good joke from the missing honourable man! Ooops Wiseman I am waiting for the blast....LOL! Did you get kicked by the mod or what? I dont complain even against a crybaby like you, so why are you trying to be so nicey nicey to me. Comeon Wisey, you cant act for long. Enjoy it honourable Wisey..you certainly can continue to write your jokes on RE here...I wont protest even if you are your normal self....ROTFL.
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  • Mod generally acts against you, not guys like me!

    Originally Posted by Almighty
    That is a good joke from the missing honourable man! Ooops Wiseman I am waiting for the blast....LOL! Did you get kicked by the mod or what? I dont complain even against a crybaby like you, so why are you trying to be so nicey nicey to me. Comeon Wisey, you cant act for long. Enjoy it honourable Wisey..you certainly can continue to write your jokes on RE here...I wont protest even if you are your normal self....ROTFL.



    Nats,

    You are a glutton for punishment? Otherwise, why would you bring up a topic like being kicked out by the Mod, when its you yourelf who was kicked out and kept freaking out incoherently all the while when you were being kicked out!:D

    As you say, LOL followed by ROTFL!!!

    Anyway, by the end of this year we will see your acting (about prices going to the moon and rising 50% per annum) being called out!

    As I see it (and I have said it any number of times here), practically the entire world is sitting on a Volcano of debt which will explode into non-payment defaults with some very nasty side-effects (War is one of them), mostly in the developed world!

    But let us not kid ourselves. Emerging markets are not all that strong (which is why they are called "emerging", not "emerged"). Notice India. While our debt level to GDP is around 60%, it was, only a short while ago, one of the highest in the world. Now, with living on excess printing for so long, many other countries have raced past us to reach 110% - 130% and higher levels.

    But check out Fiscal Deficit. We are right up there with the worst (Greece 15%. UK and US - 12%) with our own combined Fiscal Deficit level around 12%. So, Pranab, while making noises about withdrawing stimulus, will find he is between a rock and a hard place. Withdraw and see GDP growth fall badly. Keep it going and see inflation take off, meaning the same on a real basis. And with the kind of aggregate water problems we are facing (and will face) do not expet much help from Agricultural sector towards GDP growth. In fact, Agri sector may actually put pressure on the negative side, leading to costly imports and jumps in inflation.

    So, things are not going to look even this good by end of this year. And its impact on RE will be obvious. Keep on dreaming.

    Lets us see who turns out to be the joker, Nats.

    cheers
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  • Hello!

    Hi All,

    This is my first post, but I have been following the forum for a couple of years..

    I find the discussion to be informative, mostly.

    I find that there are certain points we all agree on, as follows

    1. Investors in RE should consider plots rather than flats, for better returns and less risk (choosing the right plot is another question, but the same applies to flats as well)
    2. The world is going through some game-changing developments in economic and financial conditions of major COUNTRIES, not just individual corporations
    3. In general, 'value of money' is eroding (I am not talking about particular currencies), with nothing being 'cheap' any more - in other words, average cost of living is much higher than average salary or savings or even salary hike potential
    4. Asset bubbles have become the new norm, not exceptions. No surprise, as laymen and investors chase huge returns in double quick time, as if there is no tomorrow
    5. Social and other types of unrest are more prevalent than before, may be more because of 24x7 news cycles. We hear more bad news than goods news, because bad news is a better story
    6. The so called safety net that every individual is supposed to build in the early part of his/her career is fast becoming out of reach for most people - just keeping up with the bills seems hard enough

    In the light of above, what is one to do in RE? I think that's a difficult question, we all need to agree on that. But, your opinions are welcome.

    My own take is that, I find it puzzling that Chennai RE should 'decouple' as it is made out to be, from the rest of the RE markets in India. Is that true or even possible? Do we have any data to argue one way or the other on this? If the average 3 BHK is costing 50 lacs or above in Chennai (average, note), what appreciation can we expect in years to come? If one were to borrow 80% of the cost at approx. 10% interest, what returns can one expect? In the light of our point 1 above, should any one think of 'investing' in flats? If not, with only end users buying, can residential RE (flats) keep appreciating at healthy rates (say 10-15% a year compounded)?

    See, what I am trying to tease out is: Can flats be so expensive, if only end users are in the game? If the answer is no, then the current state of affairs should be considered as investor-heavy, in which case, when will they all feel tempted to jump out? When they do, can end users alone keep the prices from 'crashing'?

    Hope this is not too boring. Responses are welcome.

    End_user
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  • Originally Posted by end_user
    Hi All,

    This is my first post,
    Responses are welcome.

    End_user



    Hi Enduser,

    Thanks for your maiden contribution, My views are:

    Investors in RE should consider plots rather than flats, for better returns and less risk

    True – I would say land in general (Plots & Acreages)


    The world is going through some game-changing developments in economic and financial conditions of COUNTRIES.

    As they do every now and then – It depends on your age or knowledge of history.

    Some times Crisis of an Individual country (stand alone issue) affects the subject country much more than a global crisis. Yes I agree we live in a much globalised world still we can’t ignore that a major chunk of economy is localized.


    'value of money' is eroding, with nothing being 'cheap' any more - average cost of living is much higher than average salary or savings or even salary hike potential

    I don’t agree. Wage rise will always follow core inflation.

    You may ask well then “where is wage/Labour cost advantage in comparison with developed nation?” – That’s when currency devalues to correct the inflation caused discrepancies that way our cost will still remain cheaper.

    Asset bubbles have become the new norm, not exceptions. No surprise, as laymen investors chase huge returns in double quick time, as if there is no tomorrow.

    Asset Bubble - may be a new norm for India, BTW get used to it India, It has been a norm much longer (for many decades) in many other part of the world.

    Most countries have seen it few times, rode the ups and downs and prevailed.

    Lay man investor -There are always foolhardy risk takers in any spectrum at any given time.

    There is saying “When a taxi driver is giving you share tips – It is time to sell”

    Supposedly, Joseph P. Kennedy (JFK’s dad a leading business man, SEC Chairman & Politician) knew that it was time to get out of the market in 1929 when his hine boy began giving him stock tips.

    I think Chennai RE has well past that phase.

    Social and other types of unrest are more prevalent than before.

    I don’t agree – It has been present for many decades (In forms of wars, Cold war, Civil war, religious riots, standoffs, Crisis, terrorism) – In fact now terrorism has taken the lime light from the other issues.

    The world is now well used to live with terrorism (It is like some kind of illness people live with)

    The safety net every individual is supposed to build in the early part of his/her career is becoming out of reach for most people - just keeping up with the bills seems hard.

    In other words Middle class person does not live with in their means, Wants have become needs, of course paying bills will be hard enough.

    Why does the person have to buy a flat in Adyar or Annanagar?
    Why don’t this MC person buy a plot with a house in say Tier II city (or outskirts like kelampakkam or Seramputhur or Avadi) and rent it out and pay LMI while renting a smaller place in Chennai near work?

    The answer is no he wants his 1000 sq ft inner city apartment and his Honda car, SatNav,Holidays etc !!

    10-15% a year compounded?


    No that is unlikely It may remain flat for some years and it tends to rise very swiftly and very steeply – When it rise panic/mad rush sets in. good properties are not available. Frustration and pain sets in.

    The pattern as we know is very uneven. On a long term (around 10 yrs) it may well beat the 10% to 15% p/a compounded.

    The market being flat for say 2 years is equal to negative return of say 20% p/a ( that is technically a 40% fall in 2 years.

    That is based on 10% inflation (real not Gov) and 10% lending rate.

    Can flats be so expensive, if only end users are in the game?

    Yes – due to land price, Land supply and inflation of construction material & Labour.

    Most of the large parcels of land that is suitable for apartment development are controlled/owned/bought by wealthy people with black money (such as politicians, Bureacrats and businessman) who don’t have a need to sell.

    current state of affairs? - investor-heavy, when will they jump out? When they do, can end users alone keep the prices from 'crashing'

    The "mum and dad" investors are only a small portion of the overall RE market, they are mainly prevalent in apartment booking and small plot sections. They follow the heard (in & out) and they have already exited the market in late 2008/ early 2009. They will be back in droves for the next boom cycle.
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  • The next boom - where in Chennai?

    Economist,

    Thanks for your considered responses.

    I agree that India, as a late-comer to asset bubbles will have to learn to live with it. But, irrespective of that, what is the guarantee that India will not face the situation that China is facing today, say 5-8 years from now? May be there isn't.

    If Chennai RE will boom again after a relatively 'flat' period (pun intended), which areas are likely to rise more than others? Can OMR one day live up to its hype as Chennai's Silicon Valley or Knowledge corridor or whatever?

    Can other areas closer to the city participate in this boom? In the sense that a rising tide lifts all boats?

    See, what's puzzling to me is that 'affordability' doesn't seem to be an issue when people talk about RE buying. Can this continue to be the case for too long? Look what happended to credit induced buying in US? They are deep in water as much as any one else. Of course, no need to talk about smaller players like Greece etc.

    What can we learn from a country like Japan earlier and now US and soon China perhaps, which had or are having asset bubbles for different reasons perhaps, but is there anything there that applies to us ?

    I feel that taking leverage to buy an asset to the tune of 80% loan is bad economics - unless one is sure that disposable income in the next 5-7 years is going to grow atleast 10-15% a year, so that one can prepay the loan and be to sell the asset if needed or have the cash to prepay, but you don't because you don't have to.

    Your point about buying at affordable prices at far-off places and renting it out, while living in a rented house near the city will work if one can get a decent rent in such areas, and one has not leveraged to the tune of 80 % in terms of loans. If you calculate the numbers (i haven't, but some time back i did a quick assessment), and take into account the fact that the risk is much higher because one is buying an asset on leverage at high interest rates, and there is no guarantee that the high returns one expects in the price appreciation or in income appreciation will materialize, the risk reward ratio, I am not sure is favorable to the buyer.

    What are the chances that the places that participated in the recent boom, like Velachery for example, will see more significant corrections, say during or beyond 2010-11. I am sure the prices will be higher than they are now in 2015 or later. But, can we rule out another correction period after the lull, in places which boomed to the tune of 3-4 times in less than 5 years?

    Thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

    End_user
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  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Nats,


    Anyway, by the end of this year we will see your acting (about prices going to the moon and rising 50% per annum) being called out!

    So, things are not going to look even this good by end of this year. And its impact on RE will be obvious. Keep on dreaming.

    Lets us see who turns out to be the joker, Nats.

    cheers

    what about your predictions of RE crashing in chennai wiseman and the doomsday theory of india getting into depression the (GDP speaks in a diff language),with all your economic indicators failing to predict the chennai RE.except bangalore and hyderabad all RE in India is showing gains read TOI feb 26th,

    poor chaps who are still waiting for the great crash,
    i still say first home buyers buy now?
    simple fact is that US and japan have more homes than households and they prefer to live single or do not have kids(maority) hence the population is dwindling(0r not growing enough)

    mera bharat mahaan is diff guys all want to have a family and a house.

    plus RE is the best place to park black money and a uncomplicated investment option.

    consider the headroom we still have for growth may be it will not spike as it did in the near future but crash it will not.
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  • Originally Posted by end_user
    Hi All,

    This is my first post, but I have been following the forum for a couple of years..

    ....
    Hope this is not too boring. Responses are welcome.

    End_user


    Boss, why are you using similar user ID. As Realacre said (he too had a similar experrience w.r.t. his user id), we are not here to fight elections, etc.!]http://www.indianrealestateforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

    enduser (without a '_ ' in between)]http://www.indianrealestateforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
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  • Well said. End of the year we would know where the predictions are on much hyped crash. What we are seeing today is the opposite.
    As I said before, both parties claiming a crash and a big boom in the next years are joking or learning.

    Originally Posted by abk
    what about your predictions of RE crashing in chennai wiseman and the doomsday theory of india getting into depression the (GDP speaks in a diff language),with all your economic indicators failing to predict the chennai RE.except bangalore and hyderabad all RE in India is showing gains read TOI feb 26th,

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  • Originally Posted by abk
    what about your predictions of RE crashing in chennai wiseman and the doomsday theory of india getting into depression the (GDP speaks in a diff language),with all your economic indicators failing to predict the chennai RE.except bangalore and hyderabad all RE in India is showing gains read TOI feb 26th,

    poor chaps who are still waiting for the great crash ?.


    This once again proves that one can't time the market.The market is above all of us.

    If some one says that the timed the market and made lots of money - It is pure fluke.
    They wont tell us about what they lost trying to time the market.

    Being aware of the current market conditions and making tactical move/decisions is good but that is not timing the market. Planning for a fall or rise 2 yrs down the track is stupidity called "timing the market"

    When some "know it all" says the maker will crash in 2 years (or vise versa) that is bullshit timing the market - No qualified professional will make such predictions and prophesies only half baked "know it all" will make such claims.


    Guys once again : Have long term strategy and look for good property in good location that is affordable for you and meets your needs & goals - go for it.

    There will be up and downs in property market, but if you have long term investment horizon those volatility should not bother you.

    RE is not for traders and speculators.

    Don't try to out smart the market it will end in pain.
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