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Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

Last updated: July 11 2017
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  • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

    Originally posted by savvy_v View Post
    Real, U have very-much inside information...
    ?
    SO VENUS RATE is how much...
    Not sure about the resale market but anything from the developer would be around Rs. 4500

    Comment


    • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

      Originally posted by seekigurview View Post
      Relevance is that it brings some positivism in the forum. I hope HPG Panvel comes on track as early as possible.
      As far as I could interprete the article it talks about family feud between hiranandanis and they are telling media that they will find some amicable solution to the same. However if Hirco goes to trouble I don't think the family wil bail it out. Only possibility could be the takeover by hirandani. But from news items it looks like hiranandani is not serious abt takeover as it is offering peanuts which will not be acceptable to Hirco plc. I think positivity will come only when we approach to Hirco as a group and ask for a written confirmation from Hirco abt their plan.

      If they are an ethical company and if they are concerned abt their reputation and customer why don't they send a communication to their buyers and appraise them about the challenges they are facing and reassure the buyers. I don't understand meaning of RM. Has any RM from Hirco proactively informed customers about anything on the project. At least my RM has not done that. We do know that any project irrespective of whether it is a construction project, IT project or any project, goes through issues but then there is always a recovery plan and communication to all stakeholders. Let me tell that in IT if you don't keep your customer informed about the project you risk loosing business to the competitor.

      However here there are buyers in this project who are looking at only one aspect and that aspect is more the delay in start more appreciation they will get. Whereas there is nothing wrong with that thinking but we have to consider other facts and risks associated with it. With time the situations such as financial condition of the builder, political scenario, economic conditions etc change and once situations change builder will first look at their interest and then anybody else. This is what happened in noida extension. It was launched at below 2000 Psf and then there were land disputes and the projects were in jeopardy for more than a year.


      Akhilesh Yadav government came, took money from builders and reached to some consensus with farmers. Now since builders paid money to Yadav ji, they started looking at ways to recover money. Some of the builders changed their plan and wrote to their buyers that they are now not launching 800 sft apartments and in stead offered the buyers to go for a 1200 sft apartment. This was done with an aim to get rid of existing customers since as a result of resolution of the land issues the rates went upto 3000 Psf. A common man who had somehow managed to mobilise courage to book 800 sft apartment can in no way afford an apartment of size 1.5 times that he booked.

      All this panvel area was hyped because of various things such as airport, sez ,blah blah on the hope of employment generation and connectivity. I think there is no two views that the area is nowhere near what we would have thought five years back. Now if the area doesn't do well in next couple of years, Hirco will not be interested in spending further in this area as the success for Hirco means commercial activity in their township for which they don't have even a single customer yet. The customers will come for cost advantage and infrastructure, which is not there at the moment. The easiest thing for Hirco to do in difficult situations is to cancel the phase 2 buildings as they do not have any obligations

      Drawing a parallel from above example of noda extension they can tell us that they are now going with new buildings with higher specifications with names Southampton, Manchester United and arsenal in stead of Selene, Venus and flora and that the area of the apartments is 4000 sft. Or 900 sft. Will you go for it. I went for Selene because I wanted an apartment of size bigger than in phase one but no bigger than 2200. I would be forced to exit from the project

      Having said that there is also a possibility that this area comes up very well in next few years as it has got advantages of being on old and new Mumbai Pune highways, broadening of sion panvel highway, name of reputed builders etc and we will reap big appreciations. But the thing is we should not sit quite assuming that Hirco is very reputed builder and so will always take care of our interests. Please note the land in powai was acquired almost free of cost for making an affordable housing for poors. Everybody knows reality.

      Sorry friends it is Easter long weekend and I had relaxed time to write a long post.
      Last edited March 31 2013, 04:47 PM.

      Comment


      • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

        Originally posted by malkotia View Post
        As far as I could interprete the article it talks about family feud between hiranandanis and they are telling media that they will find some amicable solution to the same. However if Hirco goes to trouble I don't think the family wil bail it out. Only possibility could be the takeover by hirandani. But from news items it looks like hiranandani is not serious abt takeover as it is offering peanuts which will not be acceptable to Hirco plc. I think positivity will come only when we approach to Hirco as a group and ask for a written confirmation from Hirco abt their plan.

        If they are an ethical company and if they are concerned abt their reputation and customer why don't they send a communication to their buyers and appraise them about the challenges they are facing and reassure the buyers. I don't understand meaning of RM. Has any RM from Hirco proactively informed customer about anything about the project. At least my RM has not done that. We do know that any project irrespective of wheat her it is a construction project, IT project or any project, goes through issues but then there is always a recovery plan and communication to all stakeholders. Let me tell that in IT if you don't keep your customer informed about the project you risk loosing business to the competitor.

        However here there are buyers here in this project who are looking at only one aspect and that aspect is more the delay in start more appreciation they will get. Whereas there is nothing wrong with the same but we have to consider other facts and risk associated with it. With time the situations such as financial condition of the builder, political scenario, economic conditions etc change and once situations change builder will first look at their interest and then anybody else. This is what happened in noida extension. It was launched at below 2000 Psf then there were land disputes and the projects were in jeopardy for more than a year.


        Akhilesh Yadav government came, took money from builders and reached to some consensus with farmers. Now since builders paid money to Yadav ji, they started looking at ways to recover money. Some of the builders changed their plan and wrote to their buyers that they are now not launching 800 sft apartments and in stead offered the buyers to go for a 1200 sft apartment. This was done with an aim to get rid of existing customers since due to resolution of the land issue ensured that rates went upto 3000 Psf. A common man who had somehow managed to mobilise courage to book 800 sft apartment can in no way afford an apartment of size 1.5 times that he booked. All this panvel area was hyped because of various things such as airport, suez blah blah on the hope of employment generation and connectivity. I think there is no two views that the area is nowhere near what we would have thought five years back. Now if the area does do well in next couple of years, Hirco will not be interested in spending further in this area as the success for Hirco means commercial activity in their township for which they don't have even a single customer yet. The customers will come for cost advantage and infrastructure, which is not there at the moment. The easiest thing for Hirco to do in difficult situations is to cancel the phase 2 buildings as they do not have any obligations

        Drawing a parallel from above example of noda extension they can tell us that they are now going with new buildings with higher specifications with names Southampton, Manchester United and arsenal in stead of Selene, Venus and flora and that the area of the apartments is 4000 sft. Or 900 sft. Will you go for it. I went for Selene because I wanted an apartment of size bigger than in phase one but no bigger than 2200. I would be forced to exit from the project

        Having said that there is also a possibility that this area comes up very well in next few years as it has got advantages of being on old and new Mumbai Pune highways, broadening of sion panvel highway, name of reputed builders etc and we will reap big appreciations. But he thing is we should not sit quite assuming that Hirco is very reputed builder and so will always take care of our interests. Please note the land in powai was acquired almost free of cost for making an affordable housing for poors. Everybody knows reality.

        Sorry friends it is Easter long weekend and I had relaxed time to write a long post.
        Very well written, appreciate your thought process

        Comment


        • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

          Originally posted by savvy_v View Post
          MALKOTIA, ur views on this....


          ..:: House of Hiranandani ::..
          Looks good. I am not very clear though by just having optical fibre in last mile how will they improve speed drastically. If the pipe connecting to wider world in not fibre optics won't help much. Also in the residential are even a normal broadband serves the purpose. So it is nice to have but not an absolute necessity. Also if you read the article carefully it is at a very high level it bout any details....looks similar to man Mohan singh promising free to all poors. So at the moment we are looking for roti kapada aur Makaan (read possession ) and not (fibre optic).

          Comment


          • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

            HTML Code:
            I went for Selene because I wanted an apartment of size bigger than in phase one but no bigger than 2200. I would be forced to exit from the project
            Loosing patience, is sign of intolerance,
            I agree with u and Me ready to move as GROUP..
            when u coming in INDIA? , I will be in APRIL 20th there.
            Lets meet in person, as all NRIS, Local group, and sit on their HEAD>
            .
            ..


            Having said that there is also a possibility that this area comes up very well in next few years as it has got advantages of being on old and new Mumbai Pune highways, broadening of sion panvel highway, name of reputed builders etc and we will reap big appreciations. But the thing is we should not sit quite assuming that Hirco is very reputed builder and so will always take care of our interests. Please note the land in powai was acquired almost free of cost for making an affordable housing for poors. Everybody knows reality.

            AGREE with u.Things will change with changing scenario, but believe me in INDIA the phase of growth is liek SNAIl.....TORTOISE...RACE....

            Sorry friends it is Easter long weekend and I had relaxed time to write a long


            savvy_v

            Comment


            • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

              Hirco Vs Hiranandanis - The Truth

              Dear sir or madam,

              I am a long standing shareholders in Hirco and therefore understand exactly what has been going on with this development. It is fair to say that is very much not the case on this board.

              Seems to be a fair amount of misunderstanding about who is actually in charge of this project. The answer is it is not Hirco Plc but in fact the Hiranandanis.

              The Hiranandani's raised £350 million pounds by floating Hirco in London. In exchange for this cash Hirco were issued with £250m of preference shares in the projects. On these preference shares Hirco shareholders were entitled to a 12% dividend per annum. The balance of the equity raised entitled us to 40% share of the residual asset value left after paying back both the preference shares and accrued interest as well as the £106m the Hiranandani's had invested.

              For example in Sept 2007 the valuation of the projects was £590m. At that point Hirco were due £266m in preference shares and accrued dividends. That leaves £324m of equity in the project. The Hiranandani's £106m is next in line which leaves £218m left for the equity holders. Hirco's 40% share of that was 87m and the familes share was £130m.

              What has gone horribly wrong is that the projects have been massively delayed and in that period the amount of accrued dividends due to Hirco has shot up. As of Sept 2012 we are owed £469m. The valuation on the projects have gone down below this figure so effectively Hirandani's have nothing left in the company and neither are they ever likely to given the £469m is accruing at 12% a year.

              The big problem between the parties is that the Hiranandani's realise their equity in the project has no value and they have lost whatever money they had put in. What they do have unfortunately have is 100% of the voting rights in the operating company. This they have been using to effectively blackmail Hirco into a deal where they merged their interests in the project with Hirco's. They wanted the company to be simplified and for them to have a 51% share going forward. In exchange they offered to hurry projects along with the promise of cash being available to be returned if the deal was approved. Now given they had virtually no equity left Hirco shareholders quite rightly said we are not willing to agree to those terms. Also having already been screwed over once would you really then let the family still have a controlling stake whereby they could renege on their promises again.

              The Hiranandani's have been hoping that by taking a go slow approach and telling Hirco shareholders that they won't see any cash returned back to them for another 10 years or so that Hirco might just fold in and accept some sort of deal. Unfortunately for them Hirco raised some cash from some high profile investors to ensure they could tough it out and explore legal avenues to seek redress.

              That brings us to where we are today. At present Hirco have no running of the projects at all. The Hiranandani's have operational control. They are in charge of the construction schedule. They are in charge of pricing. They are in charge of where the money is spent. They are in charge of sales. They are in charge of construction. Everything is in the hands of Hiranandani. So much so that they are not even providing Hirco with data and information they are legally obliged to do as part of the initial agreement. The fact the projects are delayed time and time again is down to the fact the Hiranandani's have no interest in the projects being completed quickly. Hirco have no legal rights to overrule the family despite being owed more money than the projects are worth. If they had input they would hurry the process along by pricing more competitively and selling the units so that they can extract their cash from the project.

              The matters are going to court. Arbitration in Singapore will ensue and I am sure Hirco will be arguing that the Hiranandani's are playing silly beggars here and that given they have no equity left in the project that overall control of the operating companies should revert back to Hirco. Proceedings are also being launched in London against Priya and Niranjan for misleading investors at the time of the IPO. Personally I think the pair of them are pretty low forms of life. Having fleeced shareholders of £350m Niranjan thinks that 6 years on that a fair value for the company £40m.

              Happy to answer any queries or clarify any other points which posters may have. Think its important for people to understand exactly what has gone on and what is currently going on rather than take for gospel what Niranjan tries to peddle in the Indian media

              Comment


              • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

                Originally posted by vestore View Post
                Dear sir or madam,

                I am a long standing shareholders in Hirco and therefore understand exactly what has been going on with this development. It is fair to say that is very much not the case on this board.

                Seems to be a fair amount of misunderstanding about who is actually in charge of this project. The answer is it is not Hirco Plc but in fact the Hiranandanis.

                The Hiranandani's raised £350 million pounds by floating Hirco in London. In exchange for this cash Hirco were issued with £250m of preference shares in the projects. On these preference shares Hirco shareholders were entitled to a 12% dividend per annum. The balance of the equity raised entitled us to 40% share of the residual asset value left after paying back both the preference shares and accrued interest as well as the £106m the Hiranandani's had invested.

                For example in Sept 2007 the valuation of the projects was £590m. At that point Hirco were due £266m in preference shares and accrued dividends. That leaves £324m of equity in the project. The Hiranandani's £106m is next in line which leaves £218m left for the equity holders. Hirco's 40% share of that was 87m and the familes share was £130m.

                What has gone horribly wrong is that the projects have been massively delayed and in that period the amount of accrued dividends due to Hirco has shot up. As of Sept 2012 we are owed £469m. The valuation on the projects have gone down below this figure so effectively Hirandani's have nothing left in the company and neither are they ever likely to given the £469m is accruing at 12% a year.

                The big problem between the parties is that the Hiranandani's realise their equity in the project has no value and they have lost whatever money they had put in. What they do have unfortunately have is 100% of the voting rights in the operating company. This they have been using to effectively blackmail Hirco into a deal where they merged their interests in the project with Hirco's. They wanted the company to be simplified and for them to have a 51% share going forward. In exchange they offered to hurry projects along with the promise of cash being available to be returned if the deal was approved. Now given they had virtually no equity left Hirco shareholders quite rightly said we are not willing to agree to those terms. Also having already been screwed over once would you really then let the family still have a controlling stake whereby they could renege on their promises again.

                The Hiranandani's have been hoping that by taking a go slow approach and telling Hirco shareholders that they won't see any cash returned back to them for another 10 years or so that Hirco might just fold in and accept some sort of deal. Unfortunately for them Hirco raised some cash from some high profile investors to ensure they could tough it out and explore legal avenues to seek redress.

                That brings us to where we are today. At present Hirco have no running of the projects at all. The Hiranandani's have operational control. They are in charge of the construction schedule. They are in charge of pricing. They are in charge of where the money is spent. They are in charge of sales. They are in charge of construction. Everything is in the hands of Hiranandani. So much so that they are not even providing Hirco with data and information they are legally obliged to do as part of the initial agreement. The fact the projects are delayed time and time again is down to the fact the Hiranandani's have no interest in the projects being completed quickly. Hirco have no legal rights to overrule the family despite being owed more money than the projects are worth. If they had input they would hurry the process along by pricing more competitively and selling the units so that they can extract their cash from the project.

                The matters are going to court. Arbitration in Singapore will ensue and I am sure Hirco will be arguing that the Hiranandani's are playing silly beggars here and that given they have no equity left in the project that overall control of the operating companies should revert back to Hirco. Proceedings are also being launched in London against Priya and Niranjan for misleading investors at the time of the IPO. Personally I think the pair of them are pretty low forms of life. Having fleeced shareholders of £350m Niranjan thinks that 6 years on that a fair value for the company £40m.

                Happy to answer any queries or clarify any other points which posters may have. Think its important for people to understand exactly what has gone on and what is currently going on rather than take for gospel what Niranjan tries to peddle in the Indian media
                Sir,

                Do you mean to say that this is a plot by hiranandani family of which niranjan and priya are part of?

                What will be the future of Panvel project and what about those who have put in their hard earned money into this project?

                Comment


                • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

                  Buyers have been caught up in the cross winds here. The projects will get delivered but its just the timescale that is up in the air. Contrary to what many of you think if Hirco were to assume control they would aggressively get everything done. Pricing would come down and deliveries brought forward much quicker. Both investors and homeowners would benefit markedly.

                  Comment


                  • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

                    Originally posted by vestore View Post
                    Dear sir or madam,

                    I am a long standing shareholders in Hirco and therefore understand exactly what has been going on with this development. It is fair to say that is very much not the case on this board.

                    Seems to be a fair amount of misunderstanding about who is actually in charge of this project. The answer is it is not Hirco Plc but in fact the Hiranandanis.

                    The Hiranandani's raised £350 million pounds by floating Hirco in London. In exchange for this cash Hirco were issued with £250m of preference shares in the projects. On these preference shares Hirco shareholders were entitled to a 12% dividend per annum. The balance of the equity raised entitled us to 40% share of the residual asset value left after paying back both the preference shares and accrued interest as well as the £106m the Hiranandani's had invested.

                    For example in Sept 2007 the valuation of the projects was £590m. At that point Hirco were due £266m in preference shares and accrued dividends. That leaves £324m of equity in the project. The Hiranandani's £106m is next in line which leaves £218m left for the equity holders. Hirco's 40% share of that was 87m and the familes share was £130m.

                    What has gone horribly wrong is that the projects have been massively delayed and in that period the amount of accrued dividends due to Hirco has shot up. As of Sept 2012 we are owed £469m. The valuation on the projects have gone down below this figure so effectively Hirandani's have nothing left in the company and neither are they ever likely to given the £469m is accruing at 12% a year.

                    The big problem between the parties is that the Hiranandani's realise their equity in the project has no value and they have lost whatever money they had put in. What they do have unfortunately have is 100% of the voting rights in the operating company. This they have been using to effectively blackmail Hirco into a deal where they merged their interests in the project with Hirco's. They wanted the company to be simplified and for them to have a 51% share going forward. In exchange they offered to hurry projects along with the promise of cash being available to be returned if the deal was approved. Now given they had virtually no equity left Hirco shareholders quite rightly said we are not willing to agree to those terms. Also having already been screwed over once would you really then let the family still have a controlling stake whereby they could renege on their promises again.

                    The Hiranandani's have been hoping that by taking a go slow approach and telling Hirco shareholders that they won't see any cash returned back to them for another 10 years or so that Hirco might just fold in and accept some sort of deal. Unfortunately for them Hirco raised some cash from some high profile investors to ensure they could tough it out and explore legal avenues to seek redress.

                    That brings us to where we are today. At present Hirco have no running of the projects at all. The Hiranandani's have operational control. They are in charge of the construction schedule. They are in charge of pricing. They are in charge of where the money is spent. They are in charge of sales. They are in charge of construction. Everything is in the hands of Hiranandani. So much so that they are not even providing Hirco with data and information they are legally obliged to do as part of the initial agreement. The fact the projects are delayed time and time again is down to the fact the Hiranandani's have no interest in the projects being completed quickly. Hirco have no legal rights to overrule the family despite being owed more money than the projects are worth. If they had input they would hurry the process along by pricing more competitively and selling the units so that they can extract their cash from the project.

                    The matters are going to court. Arbitration in Singapore will ensue and I am sure Hirco will be arguing that the Hiranandani's are playing silly beggars here and that given they have no equity left in the project that overall control of the operating companies should revert back to Hirco. Proceedings are also being launched in London against Priya and Niranjan for misleading investors at the time of the IPO. Personally I think the pair of them are pretty low forms of life. Having fleeced shareholders of £350m Niranjan thinks that 6 years on that a fair value for the company £40m.

                    Happy to answer any queries or clarify any other points which posters may have. Think its important for people to understand exactly what has gone on and what is currently going on rather than take for gospel what Niranjan tries to peddle in the Indian media
                    Thank you sir for providing such detailed insight. I did have some vague idea of the issues but not the exact details. If I may ask and if you are comfortable will you be willing to divulge if you have invested in Hirco plc shares in London or you are buyer of their apartments. Also can you please throw some light on what are the various possibilities now from the perspective of people who have bought apartments in their projects. Also i fail to understand why the projects were delayed when hiranandani had money from ipo and also got money from bookings. Why are they not interested in completing these projects in time. Many thanks once again.
                    Last edited April 1 2013, 12:58 AM.

                    Comment


                    • Re : Palace Garden, Hirco Group, Panvel, Mumbai

                      Members here pretty much understand that what Indian media portrays is not the true story and they have close nexus with big business houses. If you look at one of my posts this is exactly what I mentioned. But I am really surprised that the seasoned investors in Hirco did not foresee this risk of putting so much money on the table without having control on the operations of the company. Also assuming that Hirco wins in arbitrations and gets control of the project it will be difficult for the investors from London to execute project in India without help of any Indian partner.

                      Comment

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