I have booked a flat in this property.
Anybody who has taken a flat in the same project? Might be good to connect.
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  • Originally Posted by indiabulls
    Normally it should be in your favour, but they may be able to dictate new conditions, may apply govt rules of that time, etc and one cannot predict anything (of course we will not be alive too).

    One major diifference between leasehold and freehold is that former is like a long term renting to you, 99 years and you are not really owing the flat, where in freehold, which is normal in India, u are the owner....

    As far as cities are concerned, value of land far outstrips the value of construction. In case of IB you are paying Rs 1000 per square feet for construction and rest 3500 is for land. In case of lease, you will basically erode the value of your 80% investment with every passing year. And when it comes to selling, the buyer will take into account the eroded value. After 99 years, whosoever it is, will have to shelve crores to re-buy the land.

    As an example, say after 33 years, buildings are old enough to fall.
    You go to sell your flat:
    IB will get 3500*20=70K psf
    Hirco will get 3500*20*(66/99) = 46K psf

    Big problem with Hirco is that in 5 years, the difference between IB and Hirco, will be like bandra and andheri. Location is the key. Just expect Mumbai Pune expressway to go the same way as western express highway.

    While customer services maters to americans, when dealing in India, you just have to overlook customer service. While IB is resgitering the agreement (with all plans) straight away, has secured pemission and has about 10 floors constructed, Hirco is still showcasing its show flat. So I think IB is better value for money.
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  • Originally Posted by capt.vishal
    Hi,

    There is no doubt that HIRCO is a good investment and if you are going ahead with it then it is good. Both IB and HIRCO are long term investments. HIRCO definitely has a upper hand as they are reportedly more transparent and reliable. Frankly when I was looking for a property IB was available for 2450 psf and HIRCO for 3600 psf or maybe 3200 psf can't remember exactly. At that time I thought it was better to go ahead with IB as I was getting it cheaper and also because it was closer to Panvel (effectively Mumbai). IB is also far off from Panvel but not as far as HIRCO. I do not regret investing in IB at all. If you take me back to Jan 2010 and give me both options I would still go for IB considering that IB was cheaper. I have stayed in Navi Mumbai all my life and am very well aware of the Property options here. I frankly feel that on today's rate both HIRCO and IB are overpriced. You can get good options in Khar for around 6000 psf. My first choice was Kalpatru in Panvel but again when I was going for IB the rates at Kalpatru were already 3600 psf. Finally whether you go for HIRCO or IB you will not regret. I only wanted to make you aware that don't go by all the negative posts in the forum. Also I personally consider the option of taking a apartment in IB Phase 1 4500 psf a better option as there will not be any further changes in the sellable area etc. and the construction is in full swing unlike Phase 2 where I hear even approvals are not in place.

    Good Luck.

    Regards

    Vishal

    Thanks for the insight Vishal & 'Indiabulls'- appreciate it. As i am based in London, i am completely relying on desktop valuation to make investment decision and these small details are quite useful in terms of making an informed decision. I am still waiting to hear from Team HIRCO re availability of flat, but still haven't ruled out IB completely.

    Cheers.....
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  • Hi

    Guys Do u think after signing the agreement they can still change saleable area and also can they change the flat allocation also due u see any other hidden charges
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  • That's precisely the reason people proceed to register the agreement.
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  • Originally Posted by jia001
    As far as cities are concerned, value of land far outstrips the value of construction. In case of IB you are paying Rs 1000 per square feet for construction and rest 3500 is for land. In case of lease, you will basically erode the value of your 80% investment with every passing year. And when it comes to selling, the buyer will take into account the eroded value. After 99 years, whosoever it is, will have to shelve crores to re-buy the land.

    As an example, say after 33 years, buildings are old enough to fall.
    You go to sell your flat:
    IB will get 3500*20=70K psf
    Hirco will get 3500*20*(66/99) = 46K psf

    Big problem with Hirco is that in 5 years, the difference between IB and Hirco, will be like bandra and andheri. Location is the key. Just expect Mumbai Pune expressway to go the same way as western express highway.

    While customer services maters to americans, when dealing in India, you just have to overlook customer service. While IB is resgitering the agreement (with all plans) straight away, has secured pemission and has about 10 floors constructed, Hirco is still showcasing its show flat. So I think IB is better value for money.



    Hi Jia,

    I agree. What HIRCO is totally banking on is to create a similar model like Powai in Panvel where people can stay and work in the same place. Not a bad concept..but will it work in a remote place like Rasayani or whatever it is called (can't call that Panvel). In the long run it will be a good investment but will it be better than IB ??? only time will tell. IB can still be called as outskirts of Panvel. 6 km from Panvel station is far but still reachable. Frankly it all depends on how good a township IB can come up with. I am from Navi Mumbai and in 1996 when the NRI colony in Seawoods came up there was not even a decent road to get there. It was only in 2001 that the Palm Beach road came up. I stayed in NRI in 2001 and the occupancy was less than 25% at that time. But look now. It is the most sought after place in Navi Mumbai although it is still not well connected to any station or bus stop for that matter. Unlike the nineties the people in Mumbai don't mind staying away from a railway station or a bus stop as long as the quality of life is better and that is what IB really needs to aim for if they want to make IB Greens a hit!!!! Most houses in NRI have 2 cars so they don't miss being close to the railway station or the bus stop. Today if you need to go out you just call for a Meru unlike 5 years back. If IB can come up with a good township which is well planned and a good place to stay then I am sure in the future it will be a great investment for all of us. Just to give everyone an indication of how rates can go up in Navi Mumbai - A 2BHK in NRI Phase 1 was available for 16 lacs in 2000 / 2001 and now you would need to pay 1.2 Cr for the same!!!!!!

    As far as the 99 year lease is concerned I would suggest we need not think that far. All apartments sold by CIDCO or by builders who have build on CICDO auction land have the 99 year lease clause. I guess Owners (next next of kin) would just have to pay a small fee to extend their lease.

    Cheers!!

    Vishal
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  • Originally Posted by capt.vishal

    As far as the 99 year lease is concerned I would suggest we need not think that far. All apartments sold by CIDCO or by builders who have build on CICDO auction land have the 99 year lease clause. I guess Owners (next next of kin) would just have to pay a small fee to extend their lease.

    Renewing the lease is same price as getting the lease first time. Basically in 99 years the value of land goes to zero and you restart from scratch.

    It is like renting for 99 years. You cannot get to rent for another 99 years for a small fee!! I have seen many cases where government has refused to extend lease or charge more than the prevailing land rate to extend the lease.

    Whether all of CIDCO land is leasehold or not, has nothing to do with what you decide to do. As in forest land case or noida extension case, neither the builder, nor government will ever assume accountability. If western world is any example for India, then one clearly needs to understand the difference between freehold and lesehold.
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  • Originally Posted by Manoj100
    Indiabulls Green Panvel has opened its towers in second phase for booking at a price of 4100 psf. Currently we are handling club house facing flats. Any one who is interested in buying 2bhk and 3 bhk flats even on the lower floor can contact me at manoj.dhimanindiabulls.com

    Manoj Dhiman
    ph.-9702030204



    Do you have approval for phase-II?
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  • What happened with Phase 1:
    1. They will show club house in front of your flat and when you have paid 20% they will change the site masterplan and put low income rental housing in front of your flat.
    2. They will say sept 2011, but it will take them 2 years (as in case of phase 1) to get clearance so construction wont start till 2013. Possession will be in 2016. At any point if you ask them if they have clearance, they will say: Ofcourse.
    3. By the time of registration they will increase the loading and the same flat will be 300-500 sqft bigger saleable area. They will also add legal charges, etc.

    Atleast in case of phase 1 they will sign the agreement and resgister it in 1 month. In case of phase 2, all one can expect is 2 years of sleepless nights.
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  • good one! and completely agree! wonder where the club house will end up after they open up phase 3!
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  • Hi

    Anyone of you signed the contract
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  • Originally Posted by jia001
    Renewing the lease is same price as getting the lease first time. Basically in 99 years the value of land goes to zero and you restart from scratch.

    It is like renting for 99 years. You cannot get to rent for another 99 years for a small fee!! I have seen many cases where government has refused to extend lease or charge more than the prevailing land rate to extend the lease.

    Whether all of CIDCO land is leasehold or not, has nothing to do with what you decide to do. As in forest land case or noida extension case, neither the builder, nor government will ever assume accountability. If western world is any example for India, then one clearly needs to understand the difference between freehold and lesehold.


    Hi Jia,

    I tend to disagree on this point or renewal of lease. Look at what is happening in South Mumbai, the guys on pagadi system are not even the owners of the flat and till date they cannot be forced to vacate. Further the first flats were sold by CIDCO in Vashi around 1977 so these are the guys who would come up first for renewal. Do you really think that CIDCO or for that matter any Govt body can throw these people out of their houses after their families have stayed in that house for 99 years!!!!! Also you really think that anyone would buy their own house again from CIDCO at the market cost at that time. Till date the guys on Pagadi in South Mumbai are paying monthly rent of sometimes less than Rs 500 pm whereas the market rate would be around Rs 1 lac or more pm for those flats. If what you are saying is correct then do you think anyone would buy any resale flat in Navi Mumbai when lease time left is less than 20 years as that would effectively mean that the buy the flat and then have to buy it again after 20 years!!!! If that is the case then practically no one would buy resale flats in Navi Mumbai after 40 years. CIDCO anyways charges Rs 25K per transfer and they definitely would not want to lose than income either.

    On one more point and I may be totally wrong on this one, but I think the lease period of 99 years starts from the time CIDCO started developing Navi Mumabi so that would be around 1977 (I guess). I am saying this because I vaguely remember that the Seawoods apartment I bought from CIDCO last year (2010 is 33 years after Navi Mumbai was handed over to CIDCO for development) states something about 66 years lease period which falls into place with what I saying. If this is true (I am not saying it is as I am presently don't have a copy of the agreement in front of me) then CIDCO would anyways not be able to sell anything in Navi Mumbai after another 30 to 35 years.

    Cheers!!!
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  • Originally Posted by capt.vishal
    Hi Jia,

    I tend to disagree on this point or renewal of lease. Look at what is happening in South Mumbai, the guys on pagadi system are not even the owners of the flat and till date they cannot be forced to vacate. Further the first flats were sold by CIDCO in Vashi around 1977 so these are the guys who would come up first for renewal. Do you really think that CIDCO or for that matter any Govt body can throw these people out of their houses after their families have stayed in that house for 99 years!!!!! Also you really think that anyone would buy their own house again from CIDCO at the market cost at that time. Till date the guys on Pagadi in South Mumbai are paying monthly rent of sometimes less than Rs 500 pm whereas the market rate would be around Rs 1 lac or more pm for those flats. If what you are saying is correct then do you think anyone would buy any resale flat in Navi Mumbai when lease time left is less than 20 years as that would effectively mean that the buy the flat and then have to buy it again after 20 years!!!! If that is the case then practically no one would buy resale flats in Navi Mumbai after 40 years. CIDCO anyways charges Rs 25K per transfer and they definitely would not want to lose than income either.

    On one more point and I may be totally wrong on this one, but I think the lease period of 99 years starts from the time CIDCO started developing Navi Mumabi so that would be around 1977 (I guess). I am saying this because I vaguely remember that the Seawoods apartment I bought from CIDCO last year (2010 is 33 years after Navi Mumbai was handed over to CIDCO for development) states something about 66 years lease period which falls into place with what I saying. If this is true (I am not saying it is as I am presently don't have a copy of the agreement in front of me) then CIDCO would anyways not be able to sell anything in Navi Mumbai after another 30 to 35 years.

    Cheers!!!


    The current system (pagdi,rent ceiling act, etc) is archaic. Do not expect the system to remain the same.

    If one buys leasehold then he/she knows what they are buying. When the leases come for renew (30-50 years from now), expect a transparent/non-corrupt/responsible government. In that scenario, like in any developed country, expect people to pay the market rate for lease renew.
    By the way, Hirco lease is not the same as CIDCO lease. It is a private lease.
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  • Originally Posted by jia001
    The current system (pagdi,rent ceiling act, etc) is archaic. Do not expect the system to remain the same.

    If one buys leasehold then he/she knows what they are buying. When the leases come for renew (30-50 years from now), expect a transparent/non-corrupt/responsible government. In that scenario, like in any developed country, expect people to pay the market rate for lease renew.
    By the way, Hirco lease is not the same as CIDCO lease. It is a private lease.


    I quite agree with you that we cannot expect the same old pagdi/rent-control systems in place after 50-60 years.

    Who owns the Hirco project land?? Is it Hirco or someother third party or government???

    If Hirco owns the land and does not want to sell it as freehold, then its a very bad sign for people buying there...
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  • Originally Posted by s.sath
    I quite agree with you that we cannot expect the same old pagdi/rent-control systems in place after 50-60 years.

    Who owns the Hirco project land?? Is it Hirco or someother third party or government???

    If Hirco owns the land and does not want to sell it as freehold, then its a very bad sign for people buying there...

    Hiranandani has declared it an SEZ. Hence it is on 99 year lease.

    And as in previous cases Hiranandanis will try to bribe government officers and convert the SEZ to a residential area.
    FROM 'MHADA TO PRADA!'
    There is already a case againt Hiranandani with regards to powai and the two brothers are out on bail.
    Court relief for Hiranandani - Times Of India

    Its only a matter of time when the government takes action against their wrongdoings. If some honest officer imposes the 2000 crore fine on Hiranandani with regards to the powai project then they will be finished.
    Hiranandani faces Rs 2,000cr fine
    With regards to panvel, there is no sign of any company and all you see if residential flats, again an exploitation of SEZ policy.
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  • IB contractors are galloping up to the sky

    IB has unleashed a volley of demand letters. Guys in sector 3 are facing the heat. Construction has reached 10th floor and demand for 55% money +2.5% service tax is being demanded. People who could not pay due to loan still not being approved are being charged interest for late payment.
    Suddenly IB has become aggressive after sleeping for almost 2 yrs since they started booking. If they continue this momentum then by dec 2011 sector 3 building will be 32 storied high. Ditto for other sectors but at least they will  get breathing time. 
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