Gnoida authority will soon invite Tenders for Huge commercial land on Greater noida extension Road.

On the opposite side of residentials on main road

Expect Huge Land Banks to be sold to Commercial, Offiice, Mix use

Greater Noida main city has 3 huge malls coming up
-Grand Venezia
- MSX Mall
- OCP
- Nri city center (small mall but top location)

This along with sector markets is MORE THAN ENOUGH to fulfull the Commercial Retail needs of the city for good 30-40 years At least

Yamuna expressway side also some malls coming up...Kessel ivalley, etc

So its GOOD that gnoida authority will now concentrate on Greater noida extension region for commercial developement.

Land is cheap there and VERY HIGH DENSITY....best suited for commercial mall, retail space...
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  • Yeah.. i also read the news .....3 plots in total.....This is interesting.

    Any idea if they will also launch local market(s)....like sec 18 ?

    or

    Is it just big land sold to builders which in return will make malls n sell space at the higher price (20k+ per sqft) ?

    Regards
    Sbajaj
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  • qqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq
    Originally Posted by sbajaj
    Yeah.. i also read the news .....3 plots in total.....This is interesting.
    I have heard...that more will be offered...soon...the builders response has been good

    Any idea if they will also launch local market(s)....like sec 18 ?
    No info....but i feel...Gnoida authority will rather sell to builders via bid system...more money for them
    If one looks at Gnoida...Gnoida sector markets by authority are in sectors which were developed by gnoida...now greater noida extension hardly has presence of authority sectors..mostly are private builders...so i expect comemrcial spoace going to builders

    or

    Is it just big land sold to builders which in return will make malls n sell space at the higher price (20k+ per sqft) ?
    I am guessing the price of Ground floor will be around 12-15K initially
    Gnoida city rates are around 10-12k....keeping in mind that this area is very dense....maybe the most dense in entire noida-gnoida region...and good 6-7 kms from noida city and 18 kms from pari chowk...this region has good potential for a Mall.

    If a good experienced builder will launch a good located mall...it cud be very interesting....

    Gaur city...has a commercial land right at the round about...the entry of Greater noida extension from noida.....the locations ia A grade...its the round about which nearly every vehilce will pass through when going to noida...

    Lets see.....its very interesting...and will help Gnoida city in a good way....
    It already had ample malls (2,3 huge ones) developing and now gnoida authority has shifted its attention to this region....so at least for a few years no more supply of mall space in gnoida main city...Good...


    Regards
    Sbajaj
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  • I think one should avoid commercial in Greater NOIDA - commercial in NOIDA or GGN currently are a better option. And for ready built/finishing in 2 years only.

    I doubt if GN will develop much in next 10-15 years. In commercial, quick returns are essential.

    I anticipate good demand for commercial for next 2-3 years followed by oversupply glut for next 7-8 years going into 2020.

    Please note - RE cycle for residential qand commercial are different. We had a bull phase in 2005-6, glut in 2008, expect next bull in 2013-14 and glut after 2014/15.
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    I think one should avoid commercial in Greater NOIDA - commercial in NOIDA or GGN currently are a better option. And for ready built/finishing in 2 years only.

    I doubt if GN will develop much in next 10-15 years. In commercial, quick returns are essential.

    I anticipate good demand for commercial for next 2-3 years followed by oversupply glut for next 7-8 years going into 2020.

    Please note - RE cycle for residential qand commercial are different. We had a bull phase in 2005-6, glut in 2008, expect next bull in 2013-14 and glut after 2014/15.


    Venky,

    Noida extension is under GN - I guess you are referring to pari chowk side not noida extension side when you said it will take 15 years to develop...???? .....right ? I was talking about only noida extension side.

    Tell me - If i have to buy A grade commercial under 2cr (down payment) - where should i buy n why ? I am looking for capital appreciation + rental income from day one ( if possible not from builders/malls).

    Regards
    Sbajaj
    CommentQuote
  • Hi sbajaj - that is serious money and serious investing - getting advice from an amateur like me for something so big is probably the worst idea you ever had.

    I think - you should buy already rented out shop. Pay for a 6-8% yield on the existing lease and hope for capital appreciation in line with inflation and also good appreciation for the rent in future.

    Unfortunately I have no idea if 7-8% yield is available or not - no idea of market rates. If you are getting like 2-4% yield, you are better off in a FD unless there is hyperinflation for which there is no chance given RBI's porofessional attitude.

    A 3-4% yield is only for black money. Avoid.

    Location definitely Gurgaon Sohna Road /Golf course extn area for a mall shop.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    I think one should avoid commercial in Greater NOIDA - commercial in NOIDA or GGN currently are a better option. And for ready built/finishing in 2 years only.
    Both Noida adn GGN are very expensive and not all Malls in Ggn are doing well. Even centerstage mall , noida is having lease issues

    Talking specifically about Malls...it all depends on brands and so the leasing team of the builder is very imp.
    If there is a builder who is holding on to anchor stores himself to avoid investors spoiling the show..its best

    Also some mall developers SELL their anchor stores to footfall attarcting brands at dead cheap prices and using their name are able to lease or sell other areas.

    I doubt if GN will develop much in next 10-15 years. In commercial, quick returns are essential.
    Gnoida has oversupply issue now. Gnoida should have had only 2 huge malls..thats it...unfortunately that is not happening...some 3-4 malls are under construction..meaning..brands will bargain hard for lease rentals...In the end i expect ONE huge mall (either OCP or GV) to take the cake and sector markets doing well as they are already doing. So investing in Gnoida main city malls can be a dicey affair

    Nri city center mall which is more or less like a sector market for Nri city is a top located property and if leased well could be a winner.


    Msx mall is having good brands and if managend well could be a winner

    Others will have big issues...luckily Gnoida has decided to make more offices than malls in gnoida and mall construction is now going to be focussed in Greater Noida extension

    If anyone wants QUICK returns...head straight to Delhi..buy a small shop and give on rent.

    I know a person who bought a small shop in chandni chowk market for 20 lakhs (8 x 8 ft) and gave it on rent almost immediately at nearly 20K per month...


    I anticipate good demand for commercial for next 2-3 years followed by oversupply glut for next 7-8 years going into 2020.
    Depends on area...a very high density are like greater noida extension...is best suited for malls...who lease the space keeping in mind the class of people living around


    Please note - RE cycle for residential qand commercial are different. We had a bull phase in 2005-6, glut in 2008, expect next bull in 2013-14 and glut after 2014/15.

    Statistics are very vague. Who in 2005-06 thought that there will be an area like Greater Noida extension with 40 projects within 2 years

    This area has changed the entire statistics for Noida region. The prices are under control just because of this area...esle if there was no Noida extesnion..the launch prices of Noida expressay would have been easily more than 4000 psf


    Greater noida extension has great potential for mall developers...an area of radius 3 kms will have nearly 30-40 projects..
    Prices will be cheap here as well

    Also one more area which is of interest is the setcor 137,168 sector area...a mix used commercial project..(office + retail) in that area will be something inetresting.
    CommentQuote
  • The rate of return on rental will be btw. 2-9% on commercial, choose any established location in NCR.
    The appreciation on commercial has been unbeatable in established locations of Delhi in the last year or and the trend continues at this point in time. My unsolicited vote goes for Delhi.



    Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Hi sbajaj - that is serious money and serious investing - getting advice from an amateur like me for something so big is probably the worst idea you ever had.

    I think - you should buy already rented out shop. Pay for a 6-8% yield on the existing lease and hope for capital appreciation in line with inflation and also good appreciation for the rent in future.

    Unfortunately I have no idea if 7-8% yield is available or not - no idea of market rates. If you are getting like 2-4% yield, you are better off in a FD unless there is hyperinflation for which there is no chance given RBI's porofessional attitude.

    A 3-4% yield is only for black money. Avoid.

    Location definitely Gurgaon Sohna Road /Golf course extn area for a mall shop.
    CommentQuote
  • Zohaib, If a shop is renting for 20,000 pm, no way it will sell for 20L - that is a 12% yield.

    Only reason to sell so cheap is if the property title is in dispute. Who wants that?

    Most shops in Chandni Chok will sell for 1-2 Crores depending on size.

    Most Delhi commercial will sell for some 2% yield. Maximum 4% in poorer areas. Nobody sells cheaper than that unless it is disputed/notified/lal dora/ unauthorised.

    Most well established sectors in GGN will sell for 2-6% yield.

    The only way you can reach 8% yield is by going for a developing sector like Sohna Road. And buying for anything less than around 8% yield is probably not worth the effort. The capital appreciation in Sohna road will catch up to main GGN in about 3 years, at which time you can sell it for about 4% yield i.e. 100% return in 3 years time plus the rent you collect.

    Risk- it may not appreciate that much. Finding property now is going to be difficult. Already rented out shop may not fetch you 8% yield - you may have to buy it vacant and hope for the best.

    A major downturn event like Unitech collapsing or a global downturn will probably make Sohna Road more attractive by lowering prices and bringing property within reach. 2011 one can expect something like that and be poised for the kill by keeping money ready and good market research in target areas.

    I dont think NE will develop the way it is projected. I feel it will be too downmarket to provide good customers for a mall type format which has high overheads and depends on very high margins - people living in NE will probably do less shopping and stick with small kirana stores only. There is good chance that the middle class will rent out their NE flat and live along the expressway/yamuna eway /elsewhere.

    Basically, NE will turn out to be a giant tenement. This corner of UP cannot support so many upmarket locations.

    As you yourself keep saying, expressway is the next "good" area of NOIDA. Everything else is junk.
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  • Small shops have skewed/higher returns than average.
    An ATM of 70 sq.ft may give you 10-12% returns.

    Will you take a chance with that big an amount on NE or Sohna Road?
    They could turn out to be a dream or just duds.
    The liquidity could be a problem if it is latter.
    I will invest that kind of money only in a very well established location, where the availability is low, the demand is high and you can liquidate in matter of weeks if not days.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Zohaib, If a shop is renting for 20,000 pm, no way it will sell for 20L - that is a 12% yield.
    I know this guy personally....And such small properties in gallis of chandni chowk are there...you are talking about main raod ..i am talking about Wholesale market inside Nai sarak area..
    Delhi has many such oppurtunities in huge wholesale markets areas...only catch..you cant do anything there unless u r hardcore in that business...they are best for leasing

    Only reason to sell so cheap is if the property title is in dispute. Who wants that?
    No dispute at all...newly made galli in one of indias laregst whole sale market in chandni chowk nari sarak area


    Most shops in Chandni Chok will sell for 1-2 Crores depending on size.
    Wrong...you are tlaking about main road..there are plenty gallis where new shops are being made by converting huge kothis..and they are in the whole market area...such shops are cheap and give good returns...but you cant do anything ther unless you are into that business hardcore.

    Most Delhi commercial will sell for some 2% yield. Maximum 4% in poorer areas. Nobody sells cheaper than that unless it is disputed/notified/lal dora/ unauthorised.

    Most well established sectors in GGN will sell for 2-6% yield.
    Many malls have flopped miserably in Ggn and they had to lease to offices in desperation

    The only way you can reach 8% yield is by going for a developing sector like Sohna Road. And buying for anything less than around 8% yield is probably not worth the effort. The capital appreciation in Sohna road will catch up to main GGN in about 3 years, at which time you can sell it for about 4% yield i.e. 100% return in 3 years time plus the rent you collect.

    Risk- it may not appreciate that much. Finding property now is going to be difficult. Already rented out shop may not fetch you 8% yield - you may have to buy it vacant and hope for the best.

    A major downturn event like Unitech collapsing or a global downturn will probably make Sohna Road more attractive by lowering prices and bringing property within reach. 2011 one can expect something like that and be poised for the kill by keeping money ready and good market research in target areas.

    I dont think NE will develop the way it is projected. I feel it will be too downmarket to provide good customers for a mall type format which has high overheads and depends on very high margins - people living in NE will probably do less shopping and stick with small kirana stores only. There is good chance that the middle class will rent out their NE flat and live along the expressway/yamuna eway /elsewhere.
    Disagree...the highest footfall is done by middle and upper middle class segment only....Brand leasing is important.
    Open as per needs of surrounding..Versace will not work...but a Big bazaar will be crowded 24x7
    Which kirana store can match the discounts by such hypermarts

    NE is going to have many end users...i dont think people will rent it out and live in Noida expressway, Yamuna expressway...the location is sound enough to have end users....

    Also to add...Commercial property will be sold at very cheap rates comapred to noida, etc. So even the builders will be able to get comemrcial land at cheap prices like they got for residentials.

    Lease will be much less than Noida.....and with such huge numbers of Appts around...more than 40 projects...within 3 kms radius...its ideal for a commercial

    If Such area malls if have discount outlets they are a huge hit.

    Few years back people used to say same about Ghaiziabad...visit Shipra mall and pacific and see the rush.

    Malls should be able to generate footfall....What and how the shop owner sells will decide his profit or loss.

    OPening up a a shop in Lajpat nagar doesnt guarantee sales...Sales are depended on marketing, product and Price....

    Malls are there to attract footfalls...


    Basically, NE will turn out to be a giant tenement. This corner of UP cannot support so many upmarket locations.

    As you yourself keep saying, expressway is the next "good" area of NOIDA. Everything else is junk.

    I never said everything esle JUNK..expressway is my preference and i feel noida extension is best for people who want to buy a house with limited budget as there is no other better choice available to them.

    That doesnt mean it will fail as a commercial district.

    I have seen noids sect 18 when Buffalows used to roam about.

    Sahara mall in Gurgaon was a jungle and people used to be scared to go that side...

    If middle and upper middle class gantry is around...and a mall has stores for their needs...discount outlets, haldirams, big bazar, etc etc etc....then footfalls are created...and the other shop owners have to open stores around such anchors depending on the clients.

    Its not necessary to have a Super rich clientele around a mall to be a success.

    DLF Saket is a good example...while select city walk is a hit...the other one had many issues...

    Malls should generate footfalls and shops should be open keeping in mind the gantry around...there are more than enough brands which cater to middle and upper middle gantry and they are doing well

    Even in GIP...satya paul showroom, designer outslets are usually empty unless on heavy sales

    Max crowd in food court, cinema halls, big bazaar, etc...which are catering to upper and middle class segment


    No Mall can Guarantee to ensure SALES...SALES depend on the particular shopkeepers marketing, product and price.

    Malls can generate footfalls by leasing good brands as anchor stores as per the area.
    That will create footfall and in NE with such a high density..thats not a big issue if mall has leased to brands properly.

    The others can work around such anchor stores

    Leasing is the key in the success of a mall
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by sbajaj
    Venky,

    Noida extension is under GN - I guess you are referring to pari chowk side not noida extension side when you said it will take 15 years to develop...???? .....right ? I was talking about only noida extension side.

    Tell me - If i have to buy A grade commercial under 2cr (down payment) - where should i buy n why ? I am looking for capital appreciation + rental income from day one ( if possible not from builders/malls).

    Regards
    Sbajaj


    Hi Sbajaj
    For your thaath bhaat u can look at 2000 sqft suite in a 5-star hotel. Even if it is booked for 6 months in year and u can expect decent returns:D
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Hi sbajaj - that is serious money and serious investing - getting advice from an amateur like me for something so big is probably the worst idea you ever had.

    I think - you should buy already rented out shop. Pay for a 6-8% yield on the existing lease and hope for capital appreciation in line with inflation and also good appreciation for the rent in future.

    Unfortunately I have no idea if 7-8% yield is available or not - no idea of market rates. If you are getting like 2-4% yield, you are better off in a FD unless there is hyperinflation for which there is no chance given RBI's porofessional attitude.

    A 3-4% yield is only for black money. Avoid.

    Location definitely Gurgaon Sohna Road /Golf course extn area for a mall shop.


    Venky,

    Nothing is available around 2cr in NOIDA (pre-leased commercial property) where i can get 7-8% return. I have checked - whatever is available - i am sure will not give me any capital appreciation ( ex - a 900 sqft showroom on 3rd floor in wave mall in sec 18).

    If i have to just get 2-3% annual return why would i opt for commercial - i can buy a 200 sqmtr new built simplex kothi in any good sector (47/50 etc) n give it on rent ( return is 3% PA). Which makes much more sense to me.

    Regards
    Sbajaj
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Munish Malhautra
    Hi Sbajaj
    For your thaath bhaat u can look at 2000 sqft suite in a 5-star hotel. Even if it is booked for 6 months in year and u can expect decent returns:D


    Munish,

    Show me where it is done ?

    2 best suites i have stayed in -

    -- Delhi - Taj Palace - BUISNESS SUITE - 35k per night ( 1997)
    -- Las Vegas - Ceaser Palace - VILLA SUITE - $4k per night ( 2007)

    Something like this cannot be bought by regular investors like me.

    PS - 2 guys who have such properties in DELHI

    a) Amitabh bachan ( Le meridiean - 7th floor)
    b) Vinod Khanna ( Hotel LALIT ( formerly HILTON) - Top Floor).

    Regards
    Sbajaj
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by sbajaj
    Munish,

    Show me where it is done ?

    2 best suites i have stayed in -

    -- Delhi - Taj Palace - BUISNESS SUITE - 35k per night ( 1997)
    -- Las Vegas - Ceaser Palace - VILLA SUITE - $4k per night ( 2007)

    Something like this cannot be bought by regular investors like me.

    PS - 2 guys who have such properties in DELHI

    a) Amitabh bachan ( Le meridiean - 7th floor)
    b) Vinod Khanna ( Hotel LALIT ( formerly HILTON) - Top Floor).

    Regards
    Sbajaj


    U can buy a presidential suite in upcoming Hyatt Regency on sharing basis. Investment of 4cr.:D
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Munish Malhautra
    U can buy a presidential suite in upcoming Hyatt Regency on sharing basis. Investment of 4cr.:D


    Is it possible - Pls tell me how n where - I am serious.

    Regards
    Sbajaj
    CommentQuote