I am planning to buy Floor in BPTP's Astaire garden project. Project is located in sector 70a of gurgaon. Does anyone know about this builder and this project. Will it be good investment for next 5-6 yrs. Please provide your comments/thoughts.

I also heard UNitech launching floors in sec 70. Looks like floors are in demand.
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  • You are but just one difference here. This a possession linked subventions plan.

    If possession is not completed by builder he will continue to bear the interest.

    This type of plan is offered by builder when they are confident about not delaying the project.

    Originally Posted by jthakar
    do not be fools - here are the benefit of the so called subvention schemes :

    a. builder gets entire 100% upfront - yes nothing is construction linked here - bank on your loan on your behalf pays the full amount to builder immediately
    b. so it is your credit offtake being used by the builder for free
    c. interest charges till delivery are already added in the price so beware
    d. the loan liability is yours and yours, bank is giving you the loan


    where is the benefit ? so please read carefully before investing :)

    issued in public intrest by me :)





    Sent from my iPhone 5 using Tapatalk
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  • While it is always good to be cautious and the understanding of the product and its suitability for ones need is quintessential, i would not dismiss the value Subvention provides to the right customer. We all agree it is a weak market and it surely is one of those incentives like Possession linked plans, Flexi payment plans etc that developers are coming up with to push sales. But like it is in any other business say clothing, we as customers do get good bargains when the "Sale" is ON.

    The fears as expressed by few people here are true and even I had them but I believe there are reasons to alleviate those fears:

    1. "subvention properties are 100x times difficult to sell in resale." - True -. It surely is not suited to short term investors who may want to exit before possession as the resale buyer doesn't get the subvention benefit.

    But someone who's an end user like @Eildilp it doesn't matter. For a long term investor like me also it doesn't makes a difference since after possession, which payment plan the property was bought on doesn't matter. As long as I did not pay

    2. "it does not make business sense for the Builder. Simple as that." - What I have understood is that the answer for the business sense for the builder lies in the remark @jhatkar made "it is your credit offtake being used by the builder for free". It is this cheap home loan interest rate (10%) the builder trades with the end user by paying off his EMI. Raising money from the market costs the builders about 18-20% in interest rate! So it is kind of a win-win situation for both though I am not suggesting that the builder will not have build some premium in the price in his favor. But is the subvention benefit I am getting more? - according to me - Yes.

    3. Construction of these floors could happen faster than promised - Even I had this doubt and I asked the builder. The builder first laughed it away but reasoned that even if it were to construct them early it would take them at least 1-1.25 yr to complete the structure. Internal and external finishing will take another 6-9mths. Take another 6 mths for laying internal roads, lights, sewer, landscaping, facilities etc. I think the next point will also clarify why anyway the builder would still complete the possession in at least 3 years if not more (and not save on the EMIs to be paid by completing it before).

    4. What if the builder doesn't pay the emi to bank, who will the bank catch - I put this question to the Bank - They said they protect their and customer's interest by deducting the entire interest amount for the 3 years, the completion time as per agreement, while disbursing the first tranche of loan payment to the builder.

    Cheers
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  • Left a sentence incomplete - As long as I did not pay too steep a price! :)
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  • Beware of rogue cowboy builder-bptp

    Originally Posted by Infralytics
    While it is always good to be cautious and the understanding of the product and its suitability for ones need is quintessential, i would not dismiss the value Subvention provides to the right customer. We all agree it is a weak market and it surely is one of those incentives like Possession linked plans, Flexi payment plans etc that developers are coming up with to push sales. But like it is in any other business say clothing, we as customers do get good bargains when the "Sale" is ON.

    The fears as expressed by few people here are true and even I had them but I believe there are reasons to alleviate those fears:

    1. "subvention properties are 100x times difficult to sell in resale." - True -. It surely is not suited to short term investors who may want to exit before possession as the resale buyer doesn't get the subvention benefit.

    But someone who's an end user like @Eildilp it doesn't matter. For a long term investor like me also it doesn't makes a difference since after possession, which payment plan the property was bought on doesn't matter. As long as I did not pay

    2. "it does not make business sense for the Builder. Simple as that." - What I have understood is that the answer for the business sense for the builder lies in the remark @jhatkar made "it is your credit offtake being used by the builder for free". It is this cheap home loan interest rate (10%) the builder trades with the end user by paying off his EMI. Raising money from the market costs the builders about 18-20% in interest rate! So it is kind of a win-win situation for both though I am not suggesting that the builder will not have build some premium in the price in his favor. But is the subvention benefit I am getting more? - according to me - Yes.

    3. Construction of these floors could happen faster than promised - Even I had this doubt and I asked the builder. The builder first laughed it away but reasoned that even if it were to construct them early it would take them at least 1-1.25 yr to complete the structure. Internal and external finishing will take another 6-9mths. Take another 6 mths for laying internal roads, lights, sewer, landscaping, facilities etc. I think the next point will also clarify why anyway the builder would still complete the possession in at least 3 years if not more (and not save on the EMIs to be paid by completing it before).

    4. What if the builder doesn't pay the emi to bank, who will the bank catch - I put this question to the Bank - They said they protect their and customer's interest by deducting the entire interest amount for the 3 years, the completion time as per agreement, while disbursing the first tranche of loan payment to the builder.

    Cheers


    Hi
    Greetings

    All analytics really worth their weight in gold.. Specially the explanation for interest arbitrage play between "credibitlity" of homeseeker and "market rate" for the builder.

    But do you think a 8% pa (18% rate for builder- 10% by homeseeeker) is a big difference to encourage a builder of the repute like BPTP (or shall I say lack of it) to conclude the project at right time..in 3 years?? I guess not

    I Think the builder was rightly laughing. why? because at the back of his mind he was sure he would not leverage the buyers credibility only for 3 years,, but for donkeys of years Now guess whom will the banker catch after these 3 years for interest payment?? What is the guarantee that builder will not sell at a lower CLP in future?

    Fact is builders take loan on land, then on individual unit, then under subvention-he has loaded another loan on the buyer. All contractors, suppliers work as creditors so another loan. THE TOTAL loan by builder is then smartly increased each year as DC sahib keeps increasing the circle rate..
    Fact is Princess Park Faridabad Registry in resale is at 4k but market price 2.5K. So is the case with many other projects.. Why did the DC increase the circle rates far beyond the Logical market price?? Definitely not to please the buyer.
    Fact is that the entire money so obtained would have another tranche of loan from banks on land, on flat owned by builder until delivered/transferred. All being used to increase land bank and service previous debt.

    Finally what about buyer being used as ATM once 85% is paid, through
    -super area increase?? (Princess Park/Resort 30%plus. Below 25% is unbelievable for this builder)
    -Escalation Clause?? (With high inflation, dwindling rupee, add another 15-30%, which this builder is capable of)
    -Hanky Panky unclear and illegal charges planted in the BBA and asked by BPTP after buyer has made 85% + payment?? Imagine after 5-6 years, unit is under subvention.. cannot sell easily.. those with EMI and RENT will feel like committing harakiri.

    Therefore, it is a web of loans getting topped over each other with no actual intent of a builder like BPTP to deliver on time (forget before time).. OR Shall I say even in then next 5-7 years. Check their website,, please point at a single project that has got delivered COMPLETELY, even after 7 Years!!! How more honest can a builder get in delaying!!:bab (59)::bab (59):

    Some BPTP projects still have towers under construction after 8 years, some are partly delivered without amenities and community facilities, some have super structure completed for 3 years with 85% gone under CLP. Now when no one is ready to invest in this builder even under CLP, the builder does not have a choice but to work out some financially complex deal which a simpleton would not understand.

    Another point worth mentioning is that no project is devoid of investors, the ratio currently is 10-20% enusers and 80-90% investors. Further hardly 10-20% investors are long but 90% are short term.

    Put your effort and very carefully crafted pitch on some better builder having a conscience.. not with some rogue builder like BPTP. Just a humble advice for you my friend "infralytics". I guarantee you will have much better success.

    IF OBJECTIVE IS BUY A HOME BY TAKING LOAN ON FULL VALUE, BETTER THINK OF SOME RTM AND LIVE WITH PEACE OF MIND.

    Cheers
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  • Hi BlessU,

    Appreciate your comments and insights. Also thank you for appreciating the analytics

    Agree, had this been a time linked subvention, the builder would have milked us for 5-6-7....yrs, like Unitech has done and will do for the 18 mths subventions it gave in the likes of South park.

    This subvention is however, possession linked! - a leverage based financial product for me, if i get the product on time, I get 3 years leverage on 15%; if the builder delays, I will certainly not be unhappy :)

    Rest I leave to individual judgement.

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Infralytics
    Hi BlessU,

    Appreciate your comments and insights. Also thank you for appreciating the analytics

    Agree, had this been a time linked subvention, the builder would have milked us for 5-6-7....yrs, like Unitech has done and will do for the 18 mths subventions it gave in the likes of South park.

    This subvention is however, possession linked! - a leverage based financial product for me, if i get the product on time, I get 3 years leverage on 15%; if the builder delays, I will certainly not be unhappy :)

    Rest I leave to individual judgement.

    Cheers


    Hi
    Greetings

    That is what I am hinting at.. what if Possession not offered in 3 years?? Whom will the bank chase for interest/emi?? Does BPTP guarantee that if they wont deliver in 3 years they will pay your RENT atleast, as adjudicated by a court in Unitechs case recently??

    Isko bech ke thode paise aur milake, even if unauthorised area mein bhi, thoda isse chota builder floor lelo... will have your money in your hand and offering you and your family security and dignity and save you of horrors of dealing with an unethical builder..

    The day this builder delivers its first project completely, I will send a personal POSTCARD with congratulations to Mr Hooda and Mr TC Gupta, facilitating them for having nurtured such a shameless, cowboy and rogue builder.

    A plotted development is something which even a novice, good for nothing property developer or thekedar turned builder, can manage and deliver within 18 months. BPTP Parklands with 1000 acres of contiguous land in Faridabad, with no problem from local farmers and entire bureaucracy and administration hand and glove, is still undelivered in part of full even after 7 years..

    No club, no facilities, no community facilities, ineffective customer service, un concerned management, pathetic maintenance agency, building beyond approved FAR, made to live in in complete structures, no post delivery performance, accounts statements that never match, Problem with Allotment letter/BBA, Problem with loan and TPA, Guaranteed increased in Super Area going by past experience, Guaranteed harassment by continuous false assurances on delivery, guaranteed illegal and unethical charges loaded on your demand letters, no communication about development status by the builder are just of the few things you and buyers of existing projects are/will be facing.

    Irrespective of the format DP/CLP/Subvention etc etc

    Cheers
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  • I would like to believe it will pay the interest if it delays the possession as is mandated by the very possession linked subvention plan and the tripartite agreement between builder, buyer and bank.

    Unfortunately I do not know the builder so well as you do and am I not going to defend it if what you are saying is true. However, I do know that no builder is sane, be it Unitech, DLF... the list goes ON. But people still choose their homes with these builders and people have made money with them too. I have an acquaintance staying in BPTP Freedom Park life in Gurgaon and hes happy.

    Thanks for your advise but I will still retain this property till possession and while I am invested in this, in a matter of 3 years, the result will be out. I will subject my opinion to that.

    Thx
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  • Very well point highlighted by BlessU...
    After 3 years, will BPTP pay the interest/emi if there is no Possession ???

    Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    That is what I am hinting at.. what if Possession not offered in 3 years?? Whom will the bank chase for interest/emi?? Does BPTP guarantee that if they wont deliver in 3 years they will pay your RENT atleast, as adjudicated by a court in Unitechs case recently??

    Isko bech ke thode paise aur milake, even if unauthorised area mein bhi, thoda isse chota builder floor lelo... will have your money in your hand and offering you and your family security and dignity and save you of horrors of dealing with an unethical builder..

    The day this builder delivers its first project completely, I will send a personal POSTCARD with congratulations to Mr Hooda and Mr TC Gupta, facilitating them for having nurtured such a shameless, cowboy and rogue builder.

    A plotted development is something which even a novice, good for nothing property developer or thekedar turned builder, can manage and deliver within 18 months. BPTP Parklands with 1000 acres of contiguous land in Faridabad, with no problem from local farmers and entire bureaucracy and administration hand and glove, is still undelivered in part of full even after 7 years..

    No club, no facilities, no community facilities, ineffective customer service, un concerned management, pathetic maintenance agency, building beyond approved FAR, made to live in in complete structures, no post delivery performance, accounts statements that never match, Problem with Allotment letter/BBA, Problem with loan and TPA, Guaranteed increased in Super Area going by past experience, Guaranteed harassment by continuous false assurances on delivery, guaranteed illegal and unethical charges loaded on your demand letters, no communication about development status by the builder are just of the few things you and buyers of existing projects are/will be facing.

    Irrespective of the format DP/CLP/Subvention etc etc

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Just finished reading the terms and condition written in application form of this project .. Do not even feel like looking at this project leave aside buying here.. They could have only written 'You are willing to be our slave and not challenge it ever under any circumstances" ..

    1. Possession expected in 3.5 years but penalty clause in case of delay applicable only if delay reason is attributable to builder .. !! < Basically any Litigation issue, Govt rules, DTCP approval delays will not be their problem >

    2. If you take semi finished floor, you will have to get it finished using their men and materials within 6 months of taking possession. If not done, they will do it for you and charge you for same.

    3. Escalation is surely expected, They have clearly mentioned the random formula for calculating same. They will ask for atleast 10%-20% more later on.

    4. They will have freedom to change layout, plans and even, relocate your property anywhere they want and you need sign the same !! Icing on cake: If your 'zabardasti se' relocated property faces a park/wide road, you will pay PLC also irrespective of fact whether you asked for it or not !

    5. Best One: They may decide to scrap your unit or project altogether at any point of time; you will only get you money back WITHOUT any interest.

    6. If you delay even one installment; you lose all rights including, penalty clause applicable to builder in case of delay in possession. Plus you pay 18% PA interest on delayed installment.

    7. Your club house will be run in any way they would like, doesn't matter if you paid for it. Buyer will not have any say in running and operation of same. Jo milega, Chup Chap use karne ka. .. < I will glad if they do make a club, as point no 4 above tells me they can scrap or add anything anytime. >

    Can go on; but am too sick of this builder and project already. Seems they learnt from Faridabad experience and will not leave even an inch space for buyers from now on.

    Someone rightly said - Blood Pressure Through Property. Itna bhayanak agreement toh DLF ka nahi hota.

    IMHO: Absolute NO to this project !!
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  • hi mango Man,
    You are correct when you say that the BPTP agreement is one-sided and gives sweeping powers to the builder.

    However I am not sure if you have read the Builder-Buyer agreements from other developers - DLF, Unitech, etc.
    I read the plot buyers agreement for DLF Almaeda and it also is equally one sided - All clauses highlighted by you are also there in agreements by other builders. Builder can abandon the colony, Builder can change the layout of the colony, Builder can manipulate what date of delivery he wants to stick to, Builder's delay is charged at 6% interest, buyer delay is charged at 18% interest etc.


    You may peruse the DLF plot buyers form and a cursory glance will tell you that nearly all clause you have highlighted exist in DLF agreement as well. (NOTE - This is just application form - The full buyers agreement is signed later - And in case of disrepency between the form and buyers agreement- The buyers agreement prevails).
    DLF Almada Plot Buyer Form

    I am not condoning the one sided BPTP agreement - But the issue is that till Real Estate Regulatory bill is not enacted, such one sided agreements will remain a reality that the customer has to deal with.

    MAV
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  • Hi Sachin,
    A group on Facebook, and IREF already exist - Feel free to join

    IREF Astaire Group
    Astaire FB Group

    Originally Posted by smahipal
    Dear all

    Can we form a group of People who all have invested in Pedestal , this way it will help us to transfer the new info to each other.
    As now we have already invested ,so we will have to stay strong . we know that BPTP in not one of good builder but still we have invested in that so i assume we have taken most of risks into consideration.

    Let me know if buyers are interested to join any google group then i will form it and post the info here

    Thanks
    Sachin
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  • Originally Posted by maverick_guy
    hi mango Man,
    You are correct when you say that the BPTP agreement is one-sided and gives sweeping powers to the builder.

    However I am not sure if you have read the Builder-Buyer agreements from other developers - DLF, Unitech, etc.
    I read the plot buyers agreement for DLF Almaeda and it also is equally one sided - All clauses highlighted by you are also there in agreements by other builders. Builder can abandon the colony, Builder can change the layout of the colony, Builder can manipulate what date of delivery he wants to stick to, Builder's delay is charged at 6% interest, buyer delay is charged at 18% interest etc.


    You may peruse the DLF plot buyers form and a cursory glance will tell you that nearly all clause you have highlighted exist in DLF agreement as well. (NOTE - This is just application form - The full buyers agreement is signed later - And in case of disrepency between the form and buyers agreement- The buyers agreement prevails).
    DLF Almada Plot Buyer Form

    I am not condoning the one sided BPTP agreement - But the issue is that till Real Estate Regulatory bill is not enacted, such one sided agreements will remain a reality that the customer has to deal with.

    MAV


    Hi
    Greetings

    A few negative clauses have already been declared as unfair, unilateral, arbitrary, exploitative in DLF BBA by CCI and they have been ordered to cease and desist..
    Key imports of the order are applicable both on DLF and DTCP/HUDA as parties to the case are
    - cannot change layout without seeking consent form buyers
    - cannot escalate costs
    - cannot increase super area without increase in carpet area beyond 2%
    - cannot charge for parking within haryana building bye laws
    - installment and delivery delay penalty to be equated

    Finally commercial agreements cannot be drafted outside law and all buyers should contribute on day one as in Gujarat, Maharashtra etc from day one and get abusive clauses rooted out.

    For those invested, a more suitable acronym to BPTP, other than Blood Pressure Through Property would be Bure Phase Tere Pass.

    Escalation clause alone is expected to hit by about 20% (conservatively given the current situation http://www.indianrealestateforum.com/963726-post44.html).
    Add to this likely increase in EMI by about 10%.
    Further, increase in Super Area without increase in Carpet area.. by BPTP standards 25%, by Industry standards 10%. Please calculate accordingly assuming that project is REASONABLY DELAYED AND DELIVERED in 5 + years. (these are conservative estimates on lower side)

    Cheers
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  • Below questions are for Buyers of Pedestal ,if they can help me

    1. If Anybody has bought Semi furnished floor , can you please confirm if BPTP will provide internal walls( all the walls of room,Kitchen and bathroom) and plaster on them
    As in Application form it says "SEMI-FINISHED STRUCTURE WITH INTERNAL BRICK WORK & PLASTER" ,also specification says that Semi-Furnished floors will be delivered with Internal walls and Plaster

    but yesterday i saw their brochure which says "Internal Walls and Plaster with additional cost to customer"
    i am trying to get this clarify but not getting clear answers

    If any body can help here

    Thanks
    Sachin
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  • Its very good project . Can you provide whats your budgets.....
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  • Whats the basis of saying that its a very good project..???
    Originally Posted by Sumisharma
    Its very good project . Can you provide whats your budgets.....
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