Members!!!!

I have been looking to invest in a 2-3 Bhk since a couple of months now and more or less zero-ing on ireo sector 67a project ( although uptown, palm studio and victory valley are still on my radar) ... I request all knowledgable members ( especially the seniors and brokers in disguise of members) to comment upon the pros and cons of the project.

Also, I'd request other members planning to go for the project to get in touch with me, so that, we can look for a deal as a group rather than as multiple single parties .

As a start to the thread, let me list out a few pros and cons.

PROS

- New launch. Very little upfront payment.
- Specifications, better than basic, which are becoming a hallmark of ireo.
- location ( as per first information) looks to be good. Behind sector 67 or say
behind victory valley and PVSN
- other projects of the builder getting handsome appreciation and excellent
speed of all projects as of now ( cash crunch doesn't seem to be affecting the
So called FDI funded , politically funded as per grapevine, builder at all.

CONS

- yet undemarcated sector. Not in master plan 2021.
- builder, although very promising, hasn't delivered anything as yet
- specifications will be more along the lines of uptown ( which is available in
resale at 4800-4900 levels and has better location) and not very luxurious
Like grand arch,victory valley or skyon.
- although pricing is very speculative as of now but if it ends up 5k or more
Will be a disappointment ( like unitech south park).


I hope to hear from the other guys soon ....
;)





MODERATOR's NOTE - This thread was started about 18 months back, when this project was rumored to be getting launched . Due to delay in the launch this thread went into hibernation for some time and it is now alive . Newbies/First time users, please note & do not get misguided by the last year's launch price that stands mentioned . A duplicate thread { which stands closed now } has some updated information . Refer http://www.indianrealestateforum.com...7-a-46911.html .
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  • Originally Posted by AmitMM
    sidestepping a very elaborate answer to a very basic question :bab (22):
    now whats a "main approach" arre bhai it depends on from where are you approaching... ppl coming from GC/GCX/57 will take GCX and those from NH8/sohna/medicity etc will take the sohna rd.

    also the "posh" quotient ( for whom it matters and more so for who understand it) its not the road but the PROJECT which matters... now its like comparing LaLagune/Veranda/Belmonte to Nagina society next door!!!( both GC) or for that matter Pioneer park to to florence residncy across the road....( both GCX)


    Amit jee!!!

    Totally agree with you.. Leeekinnn!!!! Look at JMD gardens.. Great project screwed up by jhuggi cluster around it..

    Moral of the story:- the approach can't 'make' a project's reputation but it can surely 'break' it!!!
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  • That is what I exactly said.. Anyways I wonder how the current times you think are different from 2009 times . Indian Stock market is at same levels of 2009 , interest rates are at all time high, to evade default builders are offloading there assets (land) .. Only difference is builders launched projects at exorbitant prices in 2010 and trying to reduce prices in new launched to boost sales...

    Going by your example of 170 crore sale those sales are few and can not be taken as example for in general RE market.. recently I read a news that a bungalow near connaught place has bid price of 1500 cr - 1700 cr.. Do you think we can compare that deal with in general property market prevailing in gurgaon , noida , etc..

    Originally Posted by St_Anger
    Manu jee!!!

    No project currently will Give returns of the past, if you talking of the dramatic rise of mkts from jan 2009 to end 2009. Those were times were recession was the most searched word on google and once the investor, after a long lean period, came to the markets.. The euphoria was uncontrollable and hence the surge...

    People talk of ireo launching uptown at 3800 .. 16 months back.. I would also like to remind them that unitech launched sunbreeze nd vista at less than 3k.. Ditto with Bptp park prime... A broker was offering me palm drive at 4k, a project which was sold at 4.5k a year or so prior to this dealing. Those were horrendously troubled times and can't be compared to today's time. Also, what return has been achieved may not be achieved again. The surge Indian RE saw in the last few yrs may ( and I guess will) not be seen again.

    Lemme give u an example, a kothi sold a few blocks from where I live ( my house isn't self or family owned so plz don't club me with the bentley driving, cigar weilding, golf connosieurs who are friends with the hiltons, kardarshians, Hefner and clintons of the world) last week for 170 crore rupees ( that's close
    to 40 million dollars).. Ten yrs back there wouldn't have been any takers at 17 cr.. We can safely assume a return of ten times.. Now, how many of us believe that in 2021, it would cost 1700 crore??
    Easy to answer, I'm sure. Similarly, the apartments which have come from 15 lac to 1.5 cr will not go to 15 cr.. That insane part of the cycle us over!!! Or close to over.. What we shud look at now are stabalized returns.
    High returns will come in projects where risk is high. For eg, DExp but on/near GCx... It wud be unfair to chase same returns As of 2009..

    To cut a long story short, past performance is not a guarantee of future returns ..

    I know some of you'd retort.. History repeats itself .. Quote!! Well i'd just say guys!! It does .. But if u see, if there are ten possibilties of something happening, you'd find historic precedence similar to all ten of them.. Bole to, history doesn't repeat itself.. It's was just an attempt by ur history teacher to get u to participate.. Class is long over.. Stop taking the teachers lies as gospel truth!!! ;) ;)
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  • Originally Posted by manu813
    That is what I exactly said.. Anyways I wonder how the current times you think are different from 2009 times . Indian Stock market is at same levels of 2009 , interest rates are at all time high, to evade default builders are offloading there assets (land) .. Only difference is builders launched projects at exorbitant prices in 2010 and trying to reduce prices in new launched to boost sales...

    Going by your example of 170 crore sale those sales are few and can not be taken as example for in general RE market.. recently I read a news that a bungalow near connaught place has bid price of 1500 cr - 1700 cr.. Do you think we can compare that deal with in general property market prevailing in gurgaon , noida , etc..


    Manu jee!!!

    First!!! Why do I think times are different from 2009. It's not what I think but what facts ( and financial gurus like George soros and marc faber) tell us. In 2009, recession was the buzz word. Today inflation is the buzz word. Ask any reserve bank think-tank and he'll tell you inflation is a bruise, recession is severed leg. Can you compare the two??this is what is different.
    I personally know atleast 6 people who lost their jobs in 2009. Incidently, all 6 of them have got 15%+ increments this year( highest being 32%). This is what is different.Major companies, banks, financial institutions shut down. Sub-prime issue happened in US which dampned realty world over!!!

    Common cold ( inflation) and third stage cancer ( recession) are both negative sentiments but are they comparable? Y-O-Y inflation in governments documents is about 10% although, even the govt accepts in private circles that it's beyond 15%. ... By that count, 3800 rupee project today costs over 5000 to the builder. You can't just blame the builder that he's pushing the envelope too far. If he doesn't he will perish and so will his investors.

    Plz read amit jee prior post.. kindly, go through the sentances pertaining to property never bring cheap or costly and you'd know what I mean ;)


    Second point!!! I was not comparing the 170 cr deal to deals in gurgaon. Plz note that I was merely trying to impress upon the point that whatever property has become ten times in the last ten yrs will not become ten times from here.
    Proof:- I mentioned in the same breadth that a 15 lac rupee flat which is now 1.5 cr .. Will not go to 15 cr in the next 10 yrs.. So be it the 170 cr bunglow or 1.5cr flat, the example remains the same.. That property which has become ten times in last 10 yrs.. Will not give same returns!!!

    Critisize karo ......magar sahi baat pe nahiiii ;) ;)
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  • well very thought provoking thread , but i wanted to understand , what ios the current hype surrounding grand arch nowadays ?? i dont think if its delivered in 2 yrs it ll be liveable ???? any idea for the hype ?
    CommentQuote
  • Kudos to the Participants of this Thread

    I must compliment St ANger, Ishanb, Amit MM and others for very thought provoking insights on both Ireo new project and state of current real estate market in India...

    After a long time I have read good intellectually stimulating insights and I guess the intent has been great where everyone has put their learning in front of the wide audience to make the correct decision..

    As I could gather from every one's pov, its the same fundamentals of economics that are driving the prices of RE in India or around the world. Its the same cycle that's getting repeated every where in the world and India is not isolation..

    Demand,Supply,Inflation,Location,Cost of Production,Money supply,Flow of Money (FDI etc) and our own very Indian Eco Principal "Colored Money" are the factors that drive the valuations of RE... If I see all the posts in this forum, every one has been talking about their functioning...

    Definitely cost of construction has gone way too high in last 18 months and when projects were launched 3k -3.5k price range ,interest rates were at their lowest,inflation was at 4% and other material costs were at the bottom.


    Hence coming back to Ireo's new launch or the other launches (which is what this thread is about) its the guiding principle of buying decision that will help the person in taking the right decision...And below are few I can suggest ;-

    1. If its purely investment with least commitment initially then go for the Ireo New launch.... Definitely makes sense...

    2. If one needs to reinvest the premium receipt of the sale of property and need to use that "premium' then go for an uptown.

    3. If one is looking at a premium specs and a better lifestyle in a project go for IVV and see if you can manage something in 5700-5800. It will be a steal

    Finally one should not forget one very important point and that is to bite only as much one can chew...What it means is that though the comfort of leveraging allows/tempts you to buy a property beyond you budget at current prices based on your future cash flow prediction, there comes a time when you can reach at the level where 50% of the demand has been raised and if one cannot afford to pay those emi of demand then you enter into a bad territory...

    As I had written in my earlier post, current scenario across India is the stage where most of the investors and especially the salaried class invested in property with a very small initial investment are feeling the heat of higher emi due to higher interest rates and demand raised by builders.... Hence there is enough supply in the market to sell....

    It might be tempting to ignore Ireo uptown right now where one needs to pay 40lakh upfront and go for new project and have an advantage of 8-10 month over Uptown....but the fact is one cannot avoid the uptown like situation for too long...
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  • Anger jee,
    :);) First of all I am not criticizing you , you are putting your point of view and I disagree with that lil bit so writing my thought process.. So don't take it personal.. Your description of recession and other phase is impressive with words like bruise , severed leg.. Let me remind you greece woes are back and so is for euro .. and gurus are predicting serious devaluation of US dollar and talking about job market you are right that there is no layoffs at this point of time but seeing all these symptoms be prepared for that phase as well if things go out of control ...

    You missed the point which I was intending to say as Ishan pointed it out.. It is HYPE...

    I still disagree with your 170 cr example .. I found that example out of context in general...

    My POV you may disagree but I won't say that you are criticizing me .. ;):bab (48):;)

    Originally Posted by St_Anger
    Manu jee!!!

    First!!! Why do I think times are different from 2009. It's not what I think but what facts ( and financial gurus like George soros and marc faber) tell us. In 2009, recession was the buzz word. Today inflation is the buzz word. Ask any reserve bank think-tank and he'll tell you inflation is a bruise, recession is severed leg. Can you compare the two??this is what is different.
    I personally know atleast 6 people who lost their jobs in 2009. Incidently, all 6 of them have got 15%+ increments this year( highest being 32%). This is what is different.Major companies, banks, financial institutions shut down. Sub-prime issue happened in US which dampned realty world over!!!

    Common cold ( inflation) and third stage cancer ( recession) are both negative sentiments but are they comparable? Y-O-Y inflation in governments documents is about 10% although, even the govt accepts in private circles that it's beyond 15%. ... By that count, 3800 rupee project today costs over 5000 to the builder. You can't just blame the builder that he's pushing the envelope too far. If he doesn't he will perish and so will his investors.

    Plz read amit jee prior post.. kindly, go through the sentances pertaining to property never bring cheap or costly and you'd know what I mean


    Second point!!! I was not comparing the 170 cr deal to deals in gurgaon. Plz note that I was merely trying to impress upon the point that whatever property has become ten times in the last ten yrs will not become ten times from here.
    Proof:- I mentioned in the same breadth that a 15 lac rupee flat which is now 1.5 cr .. Will not go to 15 cr in the next 10 yrs.. So be it the 170 cr bunglow or 1.5cr flat, the example remains the same.. That property which has become ten times in last 10 yrs.. Will not give same returns!!!

    Critisize karo ......magar sahi baat pe nahiiii
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by ISHANb
    well very thought provoking thread , but i wanted to understand , what ios the current hype surrounding grand arch nowadays ?? i dont think if its delivered in 2 yrs it ll be liveable ???? any idea for the hype ?


    Ishan jee!!!

    No idea about the grand arch hype although I can second the opinion that there's a definitive hype.Price for a 2 bhk is being quoted as high as 7000 which just doesn't stack up against the comparison.

    The price,per se, is justified but it's the speed of accelaration that worries me. I'm ok with the price of the said apartment, had it been mid 2012.

    It's just that operators and big financers who are jacking up the prices and I'm very very certain that the investor who enters at such levels will see little or no return in the short term.

    As I wrote on another thread in the forum, in the long run the cats, the dogs, the rabbits and the donkeys will all run but try selecting a thoroughbred for better chances. Grand arch with each passing day ( and with each rupee that's added to the premium) looks more nd more like a fine horses who's overgrown the intent of god. Further growth and winning the race seems a dim possibilty!!

    My pov!! Galat ho to gaaliyan mat dena ;) ;)
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by rushilarora
    I must compliment St ANger, Ishanb, Amit MM and others for very thought provoking insights on both Ireo new project and state of current real estate market in India...

    After a long time I have read good intellectually stimulating insights and I guess the intent has been great where everyone has put their learning in front of the wide audience to make the correct decision..

    As I could gather from every one's pov, its the same fundamentals of economics that are driving the prices of RE in India or around the world. Its the same cycle that's getting repeated every where in the world and India is not isolation..

    Demand,Supply,Inflation,Location,Cost of Production,Money supply,Flow of Money (FDI etc) and our own very Indian Eco Principal "Colored Money" are the factors that drive the valuations of RE... If I see all the posts in this forum, every one has been talking about their functioning...

    Definitely cost of construction has gone way too high in last 18 months and when projects were launched 3k -3.5k price range ,interest rates were at their lowest,inflation was at 4% and other material costs were at the bottom.


    Hence coming back to Ireo's new launch or the other launches (which is what this thread is about) its the guiding principle of buying decision that will help the person in taking the right decision...And below are few I can suggest ;-

    1. If its purely investment with least commitment initially then go for the Ireo New launch.... Definitely makes sense...

    2. If one needs to reinvest the premium receipt of the sale of property and need to use that "premium' then go for an uptown.

    3. If one is looking at a premium specs and a better lifestyle in a project go for IVV and see if you can manage something in 5700-5800. It will be a steal

    Finally one should not forget one very important point and that is to bite only as much one can chew...What it means is that though the comfort of leveraging allows/tempts you to buy a property beyond you budget at current prices based on your future cash flow prediction, there comes a time when you can reach at the level where 50% of the demand has been raised and if one cannot afford to pay those emi of demand then you enter into a bad territory...

    As I had written in my earlier post, current scenario across India is the stage where most of the investors and especially the salaried class invested in property with a very small initial investment are feeling the heat of higher emi due to higher interest rates and demand raised by builders.... Hence there is enough supply in the market to sell....

    It might be tempting to ignore Ireo uptown right now where one needs to pay 40lakh upfront and go for new project and have an advantage of 8-10 month over Uptown....but the fact is one cannot avoid the uptown like situation for too long...



    Rushil jee!!!

    Totally agree with what you say. Good suggestions. I'm still confused between ireo new and victory valley. Will decide and let the gang here know.

    Baaki, a very well written post. Ever since I read the valley description post of yours, I seem to be in agreement with all your posts. So much so, that I'd probably even like your grocery shopping list, if you release it as a post on IREF.
    ;) ;)

    Cheers!!!
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  • St Anger jee...

    One out of context questions - Why did you choose this user name :)

    Any clarity on the final price of this new project...

    Isnt the location way too far i think close to 1.5-2 km frm GCX... fir GCX kaha raha sir....it is after the entire badshapur strerch after Ansal and Bestech projecr...way after i guess...
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by manu813
    Anger jee,
    :);) First of all I am not criticizing you , you are putting your point of view and I disagree with that lil bit so writing my thought process.. So don't take it personal.. Your description of recession and other phase is impressive with words like bruise , severed leg.. Let me remind you greece woes are back and so is for euro .. and gurus are predicting serious devaluation of US dollar and talking about job market you are right that there is no layoffs at this point of time but seeing all these symptoms be prepared for that phase as well if things go out of control ...

    You missed the point which I was intending to say as Ishan pointed it out.. It is HYPE...

    I still disagree with your 170 cr example .. I found that example out of context in general...

    My POV you may disagree but I won't say that you are criticizing me)


    Manu jee!!

    Ok! Point taken. I agree it wasn't personal else I won't hv been cordial in my replies. Afterall, hum bhi dilli ke punjabi hain.. We're pretty good at plotting the family trees and the members respective association with biological ( read reproductive) paraphenalia. ;)

    lol, jokes apart, I kno greece's in a bad shape but that's peanuts as compared to the almighty uncle Sam being in a bad shape, as in 2008-09! Hype zaroor hai.. I totally second.. No rather third, that opinion( since ishant proposed it and u second )

    par, the point that I wish to lay a lotta stress ( say 4600 kilo Newton of stress) on..is that if the builder doesn't do this then he's gonna be in a lot of trouble. Already giants like dlf, unitech, emaar have unprecedented debt issues and in such inflationary times when interest rates are astronomically high, even they'd like some more money to pay the debt nd interest.
    Waise bhi, builders love their investors but they love themselves even more, and if asked to choose between the two, they'd much rather want their own existence prioritized Than that of the investors.
    Isliye bhi, money making avenues for the 'aam aadmi' gets further narrowed down. Isliye, chill maro!! Jo ho raha hai hone do. Market may remain steady or correct upto 30% in the coming six months. Five years later you'll see it sitting atop a figure that we never discussed.. Rather, never even thought of. :)

    Cheers!
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  • Is it not very expensive

    How can we call it GCX..its way behind GCX.....


    Originally Posted by amit001
    St Anger jee...

    One out of context questions - Why did you choose this user name :)

    Any clarity on the final price of this new project...

    Isnt the location way too far i think close to 1.5-2 km frm GCX... fir GCX kaha raha sir....it is after the entire badshapur strerch after Ansal and Bestech projecr...way after i guess...
    Attachments:
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  • Originally Posted by amit001
    St Anger jee...

    One out of context questions - Why did you choose this user name :)

    Any clarity on the final price of this new project...

    Isnt the location way too far i think close to 1.5-2 km frm GCX... fir GCX kaha raha sir....it is after the entire badshapur strerch after Ansal and Bestech projecr...way after i guess...



    Amit jee!!

    Answer to Q.1 is very simple St. Anger ( short for saint anger ) is my favorite song. ( Download nd listen to it . Saint anger by metallica)

    And you're spot on with the location, honourable sire! But allow me to quote the legendary baii of channel V.. Whose greatest words were, " itna paisa mein, itnaicch milenngaa!!!"

    lol, that the reality of the times we live in. There are a lotta ngatives associated with this project but even then, it would be a decent launch since a very very long time. I'm myself not very keen on investing here but out of the choices that I have considering monetary issues as well I guess it stands out as ' first among equals' !!! :(
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  • I agree - Better than spending 4000 on the Jungles of NH8 and the villages of Dway..

    Temme with so much hue and cry about correction..wont it be a better idea to wait for few months for a good resale deal rather than investing in a new project at the inflated prices??
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  • Amit jee!!!
    First of all, if 67 which is already way inside GCx be called GCx than so can 67a

    technically, everything except pioneer park, emerald hill, palm drive , escape, vatika , m3m etc isn't GCx.

    Doosra, I'm bullish on vv abhi. Some monetary issues ( coz I have upcoming payments on some other properties) coupled with the correction scare are making me confused. Actually, if you can afford to pay upfront I guess uptown, victory valley or even skyon is a better deal for you ;)
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  • Hahahaa....chalo good hai.. I agree with you..

    baaki with chilled stella artois..I am chilled :bab (4): ..

    You are right we can't predict the market .. in 2006 I bought into vatika city 1740/psqft and sold recently at 7k.. And in 2006 I was told 1740 is too much for property in sohna road... :)

    Learnt one thing invest early at new developing areas aur baad mein maje lo..lol..

    Originally Posted by St_Anger
    Manu jee!!

    Ok! Point taken. I agree it wasn't personal else I won't hv been cordial in my replies. Afterall, hum bhi dilli ke punjabi hain.. We're pretty good at plotting the family trees and the members respective association with biological ( read reproductive) paraphenalia. ;)

    lol, jokes apart, I kno greece's in a bad shape but that's peanuts as compared to the almighty uncle Sam being in a bad shape, as in 2008-09! Hype zaroor hai.. I totally second.. No rather third, that opinion( since ishant proposed it and u second )

    par, the point that I wish to lay a lotta stress ( say 4600 kilo Newton of stress) on..is that if the builder doesn't do this then he's gonna be in a lot of trouble. Already giants like dlf, unitech, emaar have unprecedented debt issues and in such inflationary times when interest rates are astronomically high, even they'd like some more money to pay the debt nd interest.
    Waise bhi, builders love their investors but they love themselves even more, and if asked to choose between the two, they'd much rather want their own existence prioritized Than that of the investors.
    Isliye bhi, money making avenues for the 'aam aadmi' gets further narrowed down. Isliye, chill maro!! Jo ho raha hai hone do. Market may remain steady or correct upto 30% in the coming six months. Five years later you'll see it sitting atop a figure that we never discussed.. Rather, never even thought of. :)

    Cheers!
    CommentQuote