Hi ,

M3M is slated to launch it's high end residential project in Sector 67 , Gurgaon by the name of MERINO around July 15,2011. ( Singapore Style Living ) as they have opted to position these apartments

Minimum Ticket Size : 1800 sq ft

Current Rate : 6750 / sq ft less inaugral discount of 650 for few
editions / limited period.

Effective Current Rate : 6100 / sq ft.

Location : Sector 67 , adjacent to Ireo Victory Valley and
between Landmark Commercial.

M3M has huge land bank in Sector 67.
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  • Last I checked it was around 6600-6700. But it's too much of a risk to take.
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  • Audioslv, can you please elaborate on the risk. I am looking at it from end use perspective, but in no tearing hurry as it will take 4-5 years for GCX to become habitable in true sense... Many thanks
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  • picle 5-6 pages padh lo, risk clearly mentioned by sr members... People don't trust the builder and don't want to invest life's savings with it.
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  • Originally Posted by RamanT
    picle 5-6 pages padh lo, risk clearly mentioned by sr members... People don't trust the builder and don't want to invest life's savings with it.


    I have read every single page of this thread. The opinions are mixed. On one side people take solace in L&T as contractor and on the other side doubt the unprofessionalism shown by Bansal brothers.

    I think Rushil laid out a balanced views on Merlin on this thread 4 weeks back. What I could get out of it is if you have the holding power and patience to sleep over the investment, it may turn out to be good.

    Think about the projects with similar specs across GCex and SPR and compare:
    Remember below is a relative comparison.
    Merlin - 6500 (Min ticket size 1.5 cr, decent location, bad floor plan)
    Primanti - 7700 (2 Cr minimum ticket size, location and floor plan put off)
    IVV - >8200 I guess (2.3 Cr min ticket size, awesome project)
    Exquisite - 6000 (Not sure on execution, location, high PLC)

    Frankly, it may sound dumb but I had been considering Emerald floor phase-3 and Revanta PLP plan before but now thinking about Merlin. Emerald floor at 7000 with basic specs does not make me feel pumped up. Revanta location is a big put off, luxury certainly attracts though.

    Tell me one option where I can satisfy my need of finding something decent to live in 1.5 Cr. As the other person mention, I am in no hurry of possession. 2015 is completely fine with me. Also, I have no intention to do any black deal. Can you help me find one good 3 bhk with as good a location as GCex and with above basic/luxury specs?

    Coming back to risk, are we mainly talking about delay of project risk or is there any other risk that i have missed?

    Thanks
    A
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  • Great post..

    Originally Posted by sh-saxena
    I believe the market never really underprices anything without good reason.
    When Merlin was launched at 6750 (6100 after discount) in June last year, the adjoining IVV with higher specs was 5800-6000, Presidia with same specs and better location was 6500 and Uptown with lower specs was 5000. After one year, IVV/Presidia have reached 8000+ level, Uptown 7500 and Merlin still languishing at 6500.
    In my view, reasons are quite a few -
    - When it was launched, it sort of lost to projects like Skyon/VV which had better specs and were in similar new launch stage and priced at lesser or same rate. There was also anticipation of IREO 67A which swayed many investors to it.
    - Endusers were probably wary of somewhat unpopular perception of M3M and maybe the inefficient floor plans was a putoff (it was surely a putoff for me).
    - I think M3M just failed to connect with buyers esp the endusers - shoddy website, immature sort of sales team, the management came across as unprofessional which made their execution capability come under doubt. It didnt help that they launched a super-ambitious project like Golf Estate as their first project and then didnt wow everyone with timely execution. Instead launching the same product in different names spoke of desperation (e.g Polo suites which has the silliest advertisement video ever, find it on this forum).
    - Merlin never started construction (I believe it has now), which should defn not have been a deter for investors atleast but as months passed and there was no news of Merlin starting, investor interest waned as the resale price never jumped which never jumped as people did not flock to it, Catch-22 ??

    The positives still remain the same - good specs, and the construction being from L&T and these are very big positives and yes, a price of 6500 for luxury specs is a steal today for GCX.
    It just might reap rich dividends if someone takes the plunge.


    Balanced views. Most of the points you mentioned certainly relate to the point in time when Merlin was launched. Of course, why would someone go for Merlin when IVV was available in 6000. Fast forward to today, I don't see any other project in GCex,SPR area that has the luxury equivalent/close to Merlin but still priced below 7k.

    I agree that market is pricing Merlin right with a 30% discount over IVV, but do you think that Merlin is an only option left for an end user dreaming to live in such luxury but having 'just' 1.5cr in pocket. I must admit that I feel bad to say 'just' since for me it is a big money but not if you are in Gurgaon looking for something good.

    Appreciate your views.

    Thanks
    A
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  • Avatar01, you have echoed my thoughts... I have also considered Emerald and Essencia but just can't bring myself to buying them. Ireo projects are great but not affordable for me and have coloured component. Would be very helpful if some senior please list out the risks with Merlin.
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  • Great Post. Couple of questions.

    Originally Posted by rushilarora
    Its a very tricky question but let me try and answer it .

    I would 100% buy it if I fall in either of the two cateogires or stage of Investment :-

    1. If I have alreay made good returns in my first or second purchase and I am used to seeing good return and also understand the value of holding power (3-5 Years). None of the new launches excite me with their price proposition. Merlin does. Just because I am getting lots of distress sale.

    2. I dont want to go beyong Gcx. Period. If I belong to this category and I have 3-5 years of horizon and I need something in the least possible budget, I will go with Merlin. They also have a 1700 sq ft size for 3 bhk which you dont get in Gcx. At the current price and with this size, total cost of ownership is the least amongst all Gcx projects (for 3bhk).

    To be in the either of the above categories one needs to have :-

    1.Strong mind. Be confident of one's decision. If value deals were so easily identifiable, all of us would have been rich. Also enough confidence in oneself to not get dissuade by the negativity all around.

    2.Holding power of 5 years. Thats when the real return will come.

    3.Patience to sleep over this purchase and forget about it for 2 years.

    Reasons for my such decision would be .

    1. TINA - Is there any alternative at this price in Gcx. Price and Negative factors will move in opposite direction with the passage of time. Once the construction reaches its full speed, prices will move up and all negatives will come down.
    2.Location :- If IVV is projected to reach at 15k by possession then at 30% discount this will be at 11k approx by then. Which means from current level atleast 70-80% upside.
    3. As far as return is concerned one can say that you invest in gurgaon any where today and in 5 years this return will come. But is there any comparable location that comes to you with this return where you may also want to live one day? So it serves two purpose.
    4. This belt of sector 65,66 and 67 will be the new eco system power house of gurgaon in the future. Growth of this area is not dependent on Ireo alone but will be brought together by M3M,Emmar,Ireo, Ansal, Bestech and BPTP.
    So lot is riding in this area.
    5. Lastly this is the only project onn Gcx that is available so close to its launch price. So in terms of future slow down or recession,this project has the least risk in terms of price going down below the launch price.
    Even if M3M goes bust tomorrow, there will be enough takers for this project due to its location. By takers I mean in case of liquidation, many developers would be keen to buy this.
    Well this is the worst case scenario that I am sure none of us will see in our lifetime.

    Hope this helps.

    RA


    Rushil Ji,

    Really helpful post for first timers like me. I have highlighted with red at two places, and would like to hear more on that.

    Distress sale - Can you tell more about it? Are you calling any offer for ~6500 as distress sale or you are actually getting much lower offer? How do you identify if it is a distress sale? I am assuming no seller would have it written on his forehead that he is going bankrupt.

    1700 sqft - I thought smallest apartment size available in Merlin is 1844. I don't see any 1700 neither on their website nor on 99acres ads. Can you help me understand?

    Thanks
    A
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  • Same here..

    Originally Posted by reHash
    Avatar01, you have echoed my thoughts... I have also considered Emerald and Essencia but just can't bring myself to buying them. Ireo projects are great but not affordable for me and have coloured component. Would be very helpful if some senior please list out the risks with Merlin.


    Below are the projects I have considered seriosly, felt a little excited but then taken a complete U turn :)

    Started with Merlin - Then naa, not sure, let me examine others.
    Moved to Heritage One - Very nice, considered for a month, then don't want to spend 1.5 Crs. Let's look at below 1.3 Cr project.
    Essencia was next in line - Was considering ground floor with basement. Then i don't like floors, leave it.
    If Essencia then why not Emerald Premier floor - remained with it for good one month then all of a sudden heard about Raheja Revanta's PLP plan..I was like nothing could be better than this. Just buy it. The more I thought about it the more negative I felt about the location.
    Now, having felt the taste of Revanta's luxury, I don't feel like looking at premier floor again. :) Sher ke mooh jab khoon lag jata hai toh bas....
    Now, I need to find something luxurious at GCex in 1.5 Cr. That certainly sounds like a rare thing in Gurgaon realty.
    And you know what back to Merlin..

    A
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  • Originally Posted by Avatar01
    I have read every single page of this thread. The opinions are mixed. On one side people take solace in L&T as contractor and on the other side doubt the unprofessionalism shown by Bansal brothers.

    I think Rushil laid out a balanced views on Merlin on this thread 4 weeks back. What I could get out of it is if you have the holding power and patience to sleep over the investment, it may turn out to be good.

    Think about the projects with similar specs across GCex and SPR and compare:
    Remember below is a relative comparison.
    Merlin - 6500 (Min ticket size 1.5 cr, decent location, bad floor plan)
    Primanti - 7700 (2 Cr minimum ticket size, location and floor plan put off)
    IVV - >8200 I guess (2.3 Cr min ticket size, awesome project)
    Exquisite - 6000 (Not sure on execution, location, high PLC)

    Frankly, it may sound dumb but I had been considering Emerald floor phase-3 and Revanta PLP plan before but now thinking about Merlin. Emerald floor at 7000 with basic specs does not make me feel pumped up. Revanta location is a big put off, luxury certainly attracts though.

    Tell me one option where I can satisfy my need of finding something decent to live in 1.5 Cr. As the other person mention, I am in no hurry of possession. 2015 is completely fine with me. Also, I have no intention to do any black deal. Can you help me find one good 3 bhk with as good a location as GCex and with above basic/luxury specs?

    Coming back to risk, are we mainly talking about delay of project risk or is there any other risk that i have missed?

    Thanks
    A


    This is a clear example of risk reward, it has slightly higher risk(in terms of builder's capability) then Emmar and Ansal's project and hence return could be even higher...

    You may try to talk to the L&T team at the site and get more details about the builder, how good are they at releasing money and all.... sometimes sr guys there have a lot more info(about the builder as they interact regularly), and L&T also plans speed of execution according to the amount released by the builder

    Also, Raheja is not an option at all, I checked with the marketing team, PLP plan has all bachi-khuchi inventory jo vaise normally koi bhi nahi kharedegaa
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  • If you read my Oops I did it again thread, I had mentioned that there is nothing like Distress sale in gurgaon. Infact this word is used more often as a branding and packaging tool to garner more interest in a particular project.

    Fact is with so many hungry eyes in gurgaon waiting to grab even 50 rs of profit if available in a resale market, such deals never come to retails investors like us.

    So as far as Merlin is considered there is nothing like Distress sale. But yes the situation few months back was such that the builder has out if the sudden slumber woken up, gave contract to L&T and demanded the next two installments in a very short span of time.

    This is where over leveraged financiers or investors came out in the market to offload their inventory. Generally they hold units in multiples and depending on the weight of investor or financier they hold it with 10% payment to 25% payment. Due to sudden demand from M3M most of the multiple holdings came out hence the price it was offloaded was close to the launch price.

    Please also understand since this project was majorly bought by financiers in hope of making a killing like IVV, almost 80% of the inventory sold by M3M rests with them. Secondly most of them had picked up these units on basis of some good discount offered by M3M. So it may look like that they are making nothing in terms of premium, but in reality they would have already made their killing due to the discounts received.

    So a financier who would be holding 10 units may be exiting in 5 units and is ready to exit at the purchase price also. But with discounts (5-10%) they would get this adjusted in the other units they are holding....

    There are many ways in which they can get their premium back from the company even though on paper it looks that the resale is happening on the launch price only.

    In my another post, I have explained in detail about the past of Merlin and also the future potential.

    According to me if you can think of investing in Raheja with 5 years holding time, then Merlin looks much better to me than that considering location location and location.

    All the best

    RA

    Originally Posted by Avatar01
    Rushil Ji,

    Really helpful post for first timers like me. I have highlighted with red at two places, and would like to hear more on that.

    Distress sale - Can you tell more about it? Are you calling any offer for ~6500 as distress sale or you are actually getting much lower offer? How do you identify if it is a distress sale? I am assuming no seller would have it written on his forehead that he is going bankrupt.

    1700 sqft - I thought smallest apartment size available in Merlin is 1844. I don't see any 1700 neither on their website nor on 99acres ads. Can you help me understand?

    Thanks
    A
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  • nice one rushil.

    but the investment in raheja rightnow is just 50 odd lacs ( PLP scheme)
    however m3m would be 1.3crs + indefinite.

    considering this isnt revanta a better bet?




    Originally Posted by rushilarora
    If you read my Oops I did it again thread, I had mentioned that there is nothing like Distress sale in gurgaon. Infact this word is used more often as a branding and packaging tool to garner more interest in a particular project.

    Fact is with so many hungry eyes in gurgaon waiting to grab even 50 rs of profit if available in a resale market, such deals never come to retails investors like us.

    So as far as Merlin is considered there is nothing like Distress sale. But yes the situation few months back was such that the builder has out if the sudden slumber woken up, gave contract to L&T and demanded the next two installments in a very short span of time.

    This is where over leveraged financiers or investors came out in the market to offload their inventory. Generally they hold units in multiples and depending on the weight of investor or financier they hold it with 10% payment to 25% payment. Due to sudden demand from M3M most of the multiple holdings came out hence the price it was offloaded was close to the launch price.

    Please also understand since this project was majorly bought by financiers in hope of making a killing like IVV, almost 80% of the inventory sold by M3M rests with them. Secondly most of them had picked up these units on basis of some good discount offered by M3M. So it may look like that they are making nothing in terms of premium, but in reality they would have already made their killing due to the discounts received.

    So a financier who would be holding 10 units may be exiting in 5 units and is ready to exit at the purchase price also. But with discounts (5-10%) they would get this adjusted in the other units they are holding....

    There are many ways in which they can get their premium back from the company even though on paper it looks that the resale is happening on the launch price only.

    In my another post, I have explained in detail about the past of Merlin and also the future potential.

    According to me if you can think of investing in Raheja with 5 years holding time, then Merlin looks much better to me than that considering location location and location.

    All the best

    RA
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  • Really, is 1.3crs upfront is required to buy Merlin? Are you sure? Is this premium + builder outlay?
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  • not upfront. there is hardly any premium on merlin. but at raheja you pay 50% and then rest is at possession.
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  • If you are asking me, I still would not recommend Merlin for end-users who are spending a substantial part of their savings or taking loans. I feel its meant for seasoned investors who have several holdings, who can keep a track of progress, maybe have access to inside info and can get out if going gets tough and can take a hit if it comes to that.

    My key reason is that I don't have confidence in the builder's intent.
    They may have the funding and may have L&T and beautiful specs but are they committed to their projects?

    Usually in a project you dont get so much inventory available for resale, then why are there so many 'distress' sales of Merlin currently ? Why are so many existing investors wanting to get out and dont have the confidence to hold further ? This is probably the reason why resale price hasnt increased much.

    My two fave projects in 1.5 Cr 3BHK range are Uptown and Heritage One, have discussed these in detail in their relevant threads. Both will offer luxury (if not super-luxury) living in GCX.

    Disclaimer : I hold an unit in Uptown.

    Originally Posted by Avatar01
    Balanced views. Most of the points you mentioned certainly relate to the point in time when Merlin was launched. Of course, why would someone go for Merlin when IVV was available in 6000. Fast forward to today, I don't see any other project in GCex,SPR area that has the luxury equivalent/close to Merlin but still priced below 7k.

    I agree that market is pricing Merlin right with a 30% discount over IVV, but do you think that Merlin is an only option left for an end user dreaming to live in such luxury but having 'just' 1.5cr in pocket. I must admit that I feel bad to say 'just' since for me it is a big money but not if you are in Gurgaon looking for something good.

    Appreciate your views.

    Thanks
    A
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  • The L&T signs look like they have been photoshopped for clarity !

    Originally Posted by kinjalchato


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