Hi ,

M3M is slated to launch it's high end residential project in Sector 67 , Gurgaon by the name of MERINO around July 15,2011. ( Singapore Style Living ) as they have opted to position these apartments

Minimum Ticket Size : 1800 sq ft

Current Rate : 6750 / sq ft less inaugral discount of 650 for few
editions / limited period.

Effective Current Rate : 6100 / sq ft.

Location : Sector 67 , adjacent to Ireo Victory Valley and
between Landmark Commercial.

M3M has huge land bank in Sector 67.
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  • Yes, thats the way it is in Gurgaon. Add atleast 15% to the basic rate to get the AI cost.

    Why they dont add PLC in basic is because i) Obviously builders want to advertise a low sounding BSP ii) Service Tax is higher on PLC so its better for buyers to not add it in Basic rate. iii) I think registration also happens on Basic rate (actually the higher out of Basic rate and Circle rate) so it helps save atleast a bit of the stamp duty to not add PLC to basic rate.

    Originally Posted by AmitLamba
    Isn't this 'Basic' rate, in fresh or in resale, a misnomer as I am told there is no 'non-PLC' unit in this project ! There is a compulsory minimum PLC of rs475/- applicable to every single unit. Why not then add this amount to the basic ! In that case even the resale unit ( so called Rs6700/- basic) comes at approx Rs1.6- Rs1.7cr AI !

    Is my understanding correct ?

    Thanks
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  • Thanks @sh-saxena....One SOS question. What do you think would be the approximate date of possession and expected price at that time. I am contemplating getting into their 25/75 offer provided (a) I have clarity on the above 2 questions and (b) rate offered by the builder makes sense.

    Rushilji/KC ji....would love to hear your views as well . Please share.

    Regards,
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  • @rushiarora....need your expert advise sir ( this is what I have learnt from others in the forum and after personally going through your bullish mails on GCX!) What would you recommend ? Does it make sense to invest in this project in 25/75 scheme ? What do you think is the reasonable delivery timeline and what do you reckon should be the price at the time of possession ?

    I know a lot of folks are watching this space ( seems more like a turnaround story of the company and hence one's willingness to take the punt on it's future prospects) very keenly and therefore I am requesting seniors/experts to voice their opinion. I request @Manojaa, @BlessU, @Abhay and others to please respond.

    Thanks

    P.S : I am a fence sitter but itching to jump in provided the terms of the deal are compelling.
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  • @rushilarora....need your expert advise sir ( this is what I have learnt from others in the forum and after personally going through your bullish mails on GCX!) What would you recommend ? Does it make sense to invest in this project in 25/75 scheme ? What do you think is the reasonable delivery timeline and what do you reckon should be the price at the time of possession ?

    I know a lot of folks are watching this space ( seems more like a turnaround story of the company and hence one's willingness to take the punt on it's future prospects) very keenly and therefore I am requesting seniors/experts to voice their opinion. I request @Manojaa, @BlessU, @Abhay and others to please respond.

    Thanks

    P.S : I am a fence sitter but itching to jump in provided the terms of the deal are compelling.
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  • I havent been following Merlin closely so really wouldnt know but would expect 2+ years from now assuming structure is half-complete.
    I would advise against any 25/75 schemes, as the builder rate is just too high vs resale rate and so it doesnt make sense in current times. Go back a few pages in the Merlin thread or in Ireo Victory Valley thread where such schemes are discussed.

    Originally Posted by AmitLamba
    Thanks @sh-saxena....One SOS question. What do you think would be the approximate date of possession and expected price at that time. I am contemplating getting into their 25/75 offer provided (a) I have clarity on the above 2 questions and (b) rate offered by the builder makes sense.

    Rushilji/KC ji....would love to hear your views as well . Please share.

    Regards,
    CommentQuote
  • I agree.....when you can get a lot cheaper rate in resale market why would one go for 25:75 scheme.
    I would not even go for a 5:95 scheme at buider rate which is way to high
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  • Yes, it made sense in the boom time when people paid just 25% and sold off after the lockin period getting good appreciation. But makes no sense now when builders have become super-greedy and have very high rates and future appreciation is also expected to be minimal for next couple years.

    Originally Posted by gurkirat
    I agree.....when you can get a lot cheaper rate in resale market why would one go for 25:75 scheme.
    I would not even go for a 5:95 scheme at buider rate which is way to high
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  • Completely agree with both of you. However, I am just trying to take an informed 'punt' basis the following . These are not my opinion(s) but a compilation of what i have heard and what i could deduce from my meeting with builder:

    1. Buy back , ad-blitzkreig and scheme are all indications of a brand-revamp (turnaround) in the making.
    2. Hiring a senior folk from Ireo who has an established credibility in the real estate ecosysytem has sent comforting feelers to the largely disgruntled channel partners who apparently have started singing different tunes now (of praise !) .
    3. As per the company....the project at it's current resale price of 7100+ is highly 'undervalued' given the specs. In my opinion it is definitely a reflection of the way M3M management has handled issues in the past. They believe that the resale should be upwards of Rs8k and are committed to bring it at Rs8.5k level by the end of this calendar year.

    I personally believe had the pricing been around 8k (in the scheme), along with other steps that the management has taken, it would have sent the significantly better signal. The pricing at it's current level is way above normal and is a definite dampener.

    Having said that, if I could get a sense of when the project will be delivered along with a rough price guesstimate at that time, I would be in a position to take a better view. For eg; if the possession takes place sometime post in 2017 (preferably in Q2) , we can expect resale to be around 11.5k then , given that their flagship project (Golfestate) would have been delivered by that time and GCX in general would have seen reasonable habitation. But if the larger view is that the possession will happen by Sep 2016, and the resale would not go beyond 9.5k-10k....it's a non-starter for me...Period !

    Hope I have been able to share my thought and yes, I could be wrong in my anaysis. Please feel free to pin point the flaw in my logic and provide alternate reasoning.

    Thanks
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  • -Take all buy-back, ads, people hiring etc with a pinch of salt. (I never believe any buy-back stories having personally experienced that drama for IREO Victory Valley).
    -Yes, M3M is making the right noises lately and construction of Merlin seems to be going somewhat fine. And no denying that the resale rate (of 7000 and even below) is VFM compared to prevailing GCX rates.
    -I dont see how exactly the company will 'commit' to bring resale rate to 8.5K by end of this calendar year, unless they buyback every unit available in the market and then refuse to sell it for below 8.5K, so no one should fall for any such statements coming from the builder/brokers.
    - Cannot assume that rates will be 11.5K by 2017. If I was making a buying decision, I would only assume a max 10% YOY increase for next couple years on the current resale rate and that too only because the current resale rate is less compared to GCX rates.

    A resale at approx 7000 seems fine to me, but builder rate or 25/75 does not make sense (not sure what exactly the rate is there is but Im sure will be exorbitant).
    What is the pricing from builder in CLP and the subvention scheme ?

    Originally Posted by AmitLamba
    Completely agree with both of you. However, I am just trying to take an informed 'punt' basis the following . These are not my opinion(s) but a compilation of what i have heard and what i could deduce from my meeting with builder:

    1. Buy back , ad-blitzkreig and scheme are all indications of a brand-revamp (turnaround) in the making.
    2. Hiring a senior folk from Ireo who has an established credibility in the real estate ecosysytem has sent comforting feelers to the largely disgruntled channel partners who apparently have started singing different tunes now (of praise !) .
    3. As per the company....the project at it's current resale price of 7100+ is highly 'undervalued' given the specs. In my opinion it is definitely a reflection of the way M3M management has handled issues in the past. They believe that the resale should be upwards of Rs8k and are committed to bring it at Rs8.5k level by the end of this calendar year.

    I personally believe had the pricing been around 8k (in the scheme), along with other steps that the management has taken, it would have sent the significantly better signal. The pricing at it's current level is way above normal and is a definite dampener.

    Having said that, if I could get a sense of when the project will be delivered along with a rough price guesstimate at that time, I would be in a position to take a better view. For eg; if the possession takes place sometime post in 2017 (preferably in Q2) , we can expect resale to be around 11.5k then , given that their flagship project (Golfestate) would have been delivered by that time and GCX in general would have seen reasonable habitation. But if the larger view is that the possession will happen by Sep 2016, and the resale would not go beyond 9.5k-10k....it's a non-starter for me...Period !

    Hope I have been able to share my thought and yes, I could be wrong in my anaysis. Please feel free to pin point the flaw in my logic and provide alternate reasoning.

    Thanks
    CommentQuote
  • Dear Sh-Saxena....unfortunately your views frightfully resonate with those of mine !!! But, I am choosing to deliberately play a devil's advocate. Please allow me the liberty. Without sounding argumentative and purely as a means to enhance personal learning , for the final time , here are my two cents :

    1. They don't need to buy back all the units to really prop up the price. Just a few units will send the message. Anyways, only the distressed guy with acute cash flow issue will go for refund. Others would rather hold back and wait for the appreciation which they had otherwise written-off/hugely discounted .

    2. I guess M3M has this target (base) resale number of Rs8k+ because of Victory valley, their next door neighbor which trades at this number. This project, in my opinion, is definitely better than VV.

    3. Now, I completely endorse your 10% logic. If I were to apply 10% logic on 8k ( not 7k and that's important), the resultant rate comes to around Rs9680 & Rs10680/-after 2 & 3 years respectively. That makes the 25/75 scheme nonviable. However, if we see that VV is trading at 8k & so as Emaar PTS, Vatika City with much inferior specs is at Rs10k, then wouldn't you want to award an extra 1k to Merlin purely on the basis of specs at the time of possession and that too minimum of 2 yrs from now? That's where I am doubting my own intuition.

    As I said, purely based on science (Maths), it does not make sense, but unfortunately real estate investment is not always science...infact it's sentiments ( or intution....Arts !)...and that's where I am searching for answers !!

    I rest my case. But yes, thank you for enabling this discussion.

    Regards,
    CommentQuote
  • 1. Buyback is a total farce. Builders are not in the business of buying back, they will end up with almost all their inventory back with them if they did. These rumours are spread by builders themselves via their brokers and possibly the only 'fact' they are based on is some underwriters selling their flats back to the builder. Builders think that such rumours will help establish a floor price but it never does, IVV example is there to see, the buyback rumour did not help establish any floor price. So I wouldnt base any decision on a supposed buyback and hunt for the best deal in resale and call the sellers bluff if they mention buyback to me !!

    2. I really wouldnt call Merlin better than IVV. At best, it would be at par assuming both M3M and IREO dont do any goof-ups. Which feature of Merlin would you rate better than IVV ?
    Also is the access road of Merlin already made ? IVV is on the sector road so no access road issues.

    3. I would apply the 10% expected increase on 7K and not 8K as the current resale rate is 7K. And that too I expect this gain only because Merlin needs to come at par first with comparable projects like IVV. I dont expect 10% gains in next 1 year for other projects given the market conditions.

    Hence to me only resale makes sense at 7K, no builder rate or scheme makes sense to me.

    Originally Posted by AmitLamba
    Dear Sh-Saxena....unfortunately your views frightfully resonate with those of mine !!! But, I am choosing to deliberately play a devil's advocate. Please allow me the liberty. Without sounding argumentative and purely as a means to enhance personal learning , for the final time , here are my two cents :

    1. They don't need to buy back all the units to really prop up the price. Just a few units will send the message. Anyways, only the distressed guy with acute cash flow issue will go for refund. Others would rather hold back and wait for the appreciation which they had otherwise written-off/hugely discounted .

    2. I guess M3M has this target (base) resale number of Rs8k+ because of Victory valley, their next door neighbor which trades at this number. This project, in my opinion, is definitely better than VV.

    3. Now, I completely endorse your 10% logic. If I were to apply 10% logic on 8k ( not 7k and that's important), the resultant rate comes to around Rs9680 & Rs10680/-after 2 & 3 years respectively. That makes the 25/75 scheme nonviable. However, if we see that VV is trading at 8k & so as Emaar PTS, Vatika City with much inferior specs is at Rs10k, then wouldn't you want to award an extra 1k to Merlin purely on the basis of specs at the time of possession and that too minimum of 2 yrs from now? That's where I am doubting my own intuition.

    As I said, purely based on science (Maths), it does not make sense, but unfortunately real estate investment is not always science...infact it's sentiments ( or intution....Arts !)...and that's where I am searching for answers !!

    I rest my case. But yes, thank you for enabling this discussion.

    Regards,
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  • this project will be delivered on time (Q12016)
    Good Quality project
    u can expect rates in the range of 11-12k after possession
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by eildilp
    this project will be delivered on time (Q12016)
    Good Quality project
    u can expect rates in the range of 11-12k after possession


    You seem to be knowledgeable about this project.

    could you help with current resale rates and the best Tower to look to.

    would lower or higher tower be more beneficial. Help will be welcome.
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  • Good news

    Buy back price increased to 7500... Lot of effort to create positivity around ths project
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  • Resale is between 7000-7500 (depends on the location etc), Buyback at 7500 by builder, may be only for specific sizes and towers.
    7-12 floors good to enjoy greenness (very good in this project) all units face greens.
    If you like skyline watching, higher floors 12+ should be preferred. Towers 7 to 10 and tower1 are the best located towers both sides well open (Escentia)
    All the best.
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