Heard that ATS is coming up with their Residential project in sec 109 in 14 acres , next to atharva.....

Anybody having any more info on this....????
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  • Extremely valid points (With reference to post # 1867)

    Please can any body give answers to the questions raised by Manoja.

    Guys please answer objectively for the benefit of prospective investors, instead of blaming anybody for hyping or defaming D Way

    Originally Posted by MANOJa
    Absolutely


    PS : I am not justifying the price of 4800 psf for ATS at this point , I am just waiting for 8th nov when the tender has to be awarded for sector roads of D Eway...


    Looks like another hype is due on 8th November .

    As, i have said many times before , If u have the capability of taking a risk & can afford to lose or dump a fat packet, without blinking an eyelid, u may go ahead with investing here immediately, otherwise wait for the litigation to be over & let the hype die & rates come to some realistic levels . One might have to pay a higher BSP & maybe earn a lessor ROI, but then one is assured of a relatively safer investment & most importantly, if he is an end user, an house to live in . D e way may offer some decent investment opportunities & may offer some good options to the end users/investors, but investing here right now is not everybody's cup of tea .

    My POV, please ignore if, one doesn't agree .
    CommentQuote
  • I have received one stunning news.


    ATS is offering some sort of promotional scheme for its existing customers. It is something like this – If an existing customers gets in say, 5 customers, he would get a special rebate of say, X amount. If he is able to garner/give references of say, 5 + Y potential customers, he would get a special rebate of X + some additional amount.

    This is through 2 independent sources. Can anybody confirm on this??? Has anybody heard something similar??? If yes, it would explain a lot of things.

    I too am seeking more details on the above . Would revert back, if i get more information on this .
    CommentQuote
  • Amit jee, what is (are) the question (s)?

    All I can see is a very valid statement !

    Maybe you can point out the questions, which we all could collectively respond to !

    Rgds
    Originally Posted by amit001
    Extremely valid points (With reference to post # 1867)

    Please can any body give answers to the questions raised by Manoja.

    Guys please answer objectively for the benefit of prospective investors, instead of blaming anybody for hyping or defaming D Way



    Looks like another hype is due on 8th November .

    As, i have said many times before , If u have the capability of taking a risk & can afford to lose or dump a fat packet, without blinking an eyelid, u may go ahead with investing here immediately, otherwise wait for the litigation to be over & let the hype die & rates come to some realistic levels . One might have to pay a higher BSP & maybe earn a lessor ROI, but then one is assured of a relatively safer investment & most importantly, if he is an end user, an house to live in . D e way may offer some decent investment opportunities & may offer some good options to the end users/investors, but investing here right now is not everybody's cup of tea .

    My POV, please ignore if, one doesn't agree .
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by zorin111
    Baaki ATS ka thread hai, to acchai aur burai dono hi hogi... I am interested in ATS if pricing is decent, as i alraedy have exposure in SPR and i am looking for something now on NH8 / D Eway for long term... And my mind tells me that there should be a differential of 50-60% between GCX and D Eway which will eventually even out in, lets say 10 years. So for someone who has the appetite for high risk, and is not looking from living perspective, D eway could be a very good bet in 10 years time. Before 10 years if you want to sell, you might not find buyers, and you might not be able to sell also for 1-2-3 years at all. But ROI will be better in 10 years on D e way.

    Everybody has a different finacial situation, and i am talking about mine. 1 crore 10 saal tak laga kar main bhoolne k liye tayyar hoon... provided, that 1 crore is in installments and the builder is good.

    Zorin,
    Nice posts, you have shared your views and at the same time mentioned the risks as well. I like the practical approach and this way a good debate can happen.
    Assimilation and analysis of info is important, hammering the same thing will neither pull the dway down or otherwise.
    Regards,
    CommentQuote
  • GREAT WRITTING.........

    Your post makes sense Zorin bhai....

    1, 2, ka 4 karne ke liye JIGAR chahiye.

    1 khokha laga kar 4-5 saal tak bhool jaane ka aur aaraam se soney ka.....
    Har roz forum par aakar khali-peeli shoor nahi karne ka......



    Originally Posted by zorin111
    I agree... But the potential of D eway is huge as compared to neharpar... Deway would turn out to be a real killer once it is complete with all infra in place. It will provide easy access to delhi from gurgaon and manesar. So long term is a sure winner... I had my friends who owned properties in Mahipalpur village (now called mahipalpur extention) and they advised me to buy. I did not have money then, and i was also not interested. The valuation of their properties have multiplied by about twenty times in the last 15 - 18 years... I rem one of them buying another plot in the interiors at about 25 lakhs, (In those days, I had not seen 25 lakhs cash!) its now more than 10 crores. I am not saying all the property has appreciated, but they could visualise the change gripping their village, which was not motorable and had no pucci lanes then, and even now most of the roads are tuti phuti... but its in delhi !

    One has to invest in future if one wants to mint money. But it can have its negatives too. The money can be blocked for many many years, and the area might not appreciate as much as one would have imagined ! High risk and high return ...
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by rs2507
    Zorin,
    Nice posts, you have shared your views and at the same time mentioned the risks as well. I like the practical approach and this way a good debate can happen.
    Assimilation and analysis of info is important, hammering the same thing will neither pull the dway down or otherwise.
    Regards,


    Appreciate your positive words, RS !
    CommentQuote
  • Investment Strategy Dway Part 2

    Originally Posted by zorin111
    Baaki ATS ka thread hai, to acchai aur burai dono hi hogi... I am interested in ATS if pricing is decent, as i alraedy have exposure in SPR and i am looking for something now on NH8 / D Eway for long term... And my mind tells me that there should be a differential of 50-60% between GCX and D Eway which will eventually even out in, lets say 10 years. So for someone who has the appetite for high risk, and is not looking from living perspective, D eway could be a very good bet in 10 years time. Before 10 years if you want to sell, you might not find buyers, and you might not be able to sell also for 1-2-3 years at all. But ROI will be better in 10 years on D e way.

    Everybody has a different finacial situation, and i am talking about mine. 1 crore 10 saal tak laga kar main bhoolne k liye tayyar hoon... provided, that 1 crore is in installments and the builder is good.


    Hi
    Greetings

    Quiet logical viewpoint and do like the approach. Few dedcutions..
    Price of dway should be 50-60% of gcx...so about 2500-3000 cheaper than GCX,
    ROI expectation 20%+
    Time frame 10years+,
    Resale will be problamatic (due to oversupply, lack of infra/habitation)
    Ticket size becomes too big for DP and CLP would be a sensible option..
    (Please correct Zorin11 if any of the assumptions is not in place)

    ATS coming to dway definitely provides an opportunity to make money. The experiences of 109, should be better utilised by those who missed the opportunity. Focus now on 104.
    Wait!!! my thinking is as follows, need to understand this;
    Chintels 109 was 3300 in July11 and is prospectively looking at 4000 due to ATS launch and new phase by Chintel at higher price (4500 say).. This has offered smart investors to rake in a moolah check illustration https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/hyderabad-real-estate/1059-wholeseller-huda-will-no-longer-retail-land-to-ordinary-citizens?p=116969#post116969

    If one follows the illustration above and is convinced can move forward with the same logic simply replicate in 104

    Now, Time is to turn sight to 104 where ATS will do some high decible marketing, online and offline activities, loyal customers contributing to the hype etc..

    Get hold of dependable builder in 104, lying low, and assume a price for ATS at least Rs1000DP in excess of current market price of a "good project" currently in 104. This is going by precedent of 109 (chintel 20% paid CLP 3300 vs ATS DP 4300) Add to the 109 precedent some extra hype, talk of lauches Shobha 5Cr and Puri, etc.

    I think there is an opportunity to make a cool stash in 104 now.. it has happened in 109 will happen here as well. Minimum Profit expectation similar to Investment strategy 1 in link above..(so go back to that Link and study carefully)

    MAKES SENSE?? THEN GO FOR IT..
    Querries welcome. Best of Luck and happy investing!!!!:bab (6):

    PS: Check your priorities, finances, expectations, choice of builder, time horizon, entry and exit at your discretion..
    Early entry in a good builder in 104 while ATS marketing goes full throttle in a months time will give everyone a substantial go ahead..
    CommentQuote
  • This is one smart strategy that could come from someone who is a veteran in the industry. So, you basically piggyback on the buzz generated by the new launch and make profits elsewhere with a different builder.

    Nice way. Obvious due diligence needs to be performed still.
    CommentQuote
  • Thanks Nipsy Bhai for your kind words.

    Vaise har roz forum par nahee aayenge to time kaise paas hoga? Woh bhi to zaroori hai naa..

    I have just gone back and read a few more posts. Actually the speed of this thread has been great, and i missed out on two very informative posts by two Amit's (001 & Bhalla ji)

    Amit had raised very valid points, and bhalla jee had given equally valid reasons / answers.

    May be bhalla jee has seen the development of gurgaon himself, rather than some hearsay, thats why he has answered everything in a neat crisp and pointed manner.

    I am copy pasting the conversation with my own comments in blue ...
    Today I went for site visit to Proposed D way sectors.

    Some of the observations are as follows:

    * Mahindra Project is very close to Palam Vihar and looks to be the safest property. This property is immune to delays on the D way. The two put offs are the "nala" and the "railway line"

    the drain as per Mahindra will be covered by them by the time of possession
    (I hope now u understand why Mahindra got sold like hot cakes every time because it is not dependent on D eway to come up)


    True



    * Lot of sectors falling on the D Way including 109, 110, 112 are surrounded by unauthorized residential/industrial shops/property dealers/dingy kirana stores/small time village shops etc etc, which was great put off. As per local people there are more than thousands and thousands of unauthorised units which can never be removed. The whole of new palam vihar is unauthorised. However the units falling on the demarcation of the D Way may be removed if the litigation issues are sorted out

    I agree unauthorised plots are there in huge amount of numbers , and the quality of people are nothing to talk about , However ,I am seeing that area for the last 5 years now and the quality has improved by leaps and bounds over the years , My take : As the rates will move up for those plots , you will start to see better quality of ppl

    and those unauthorised shops that ur seeing there is just to save their plots from being acquired ...and earn some rent from that plot by doing minimal investment..


    True

    * Chintels, Lumbini and shoba project are on the same stretch near Raheja Atherva

    They actually form a square kind of a shape and u forgot the ATS boundary next to atharva and caladium

    True

    * As per local brokers there is 0 resale activity happening for Raheja Atherva

    Not zero but very minimal , because ppl who were invested sincce so long have just started to get some decent premium and since the payment has gone to the builder so they are sitting tight on it....

    True


    * I wonder if being close to Delhi was a big advantage why the rates of Palam vihar are not more than DLF sectors in South Gurgaon?

    Palam vihar never got the due appreciation because of the approch from bijwasan road , Palam vihar was the first builder colony of GGN , it was made in 1986 by ansals and at one point of time around 1997 , Palam vihar plots were trading 10k psy and DLF 1 was being traded 3k psy (Reason : THat time old delhi Gurgaon road (Maruti road) was the main highway which was closer to palam vihar then DLF 1 was , pv was 3 km and DLF 1 was 7 km)
    So when the new highway became operational , all the barren land which was there got converted to highrise commercials courtesy DLF ...I hope now u will understand what a HIGHWAY can do to an area


    Its not all about highway, its about the vision DLF had for Gurgaon, for developing & selling not just one building, or a few plots or apartments but creating a new city, new infrastructure, new industry etc. They joined hands with Chautala and created a new city, which dared to dream big, and which challenged the orthodox. Till DLF came into picture, Maruti was the only large company, with a whole lot of ancilliary companies supplying to it. Then faridabad was the industrial hub. Today Faridabad is a distant cousin of Gurgaon when it comes to corporates. The only large corporates in Faridabad are L&T, Escorts, JCB, Voith hydro (and maybe a few more) whereas you will find dozens in gurgaon & manesar belt, all established after DLF.



    * if people feel that the rates of D way shud be more than GCX in long run. Why not Palam vihar rates are more than DFL Sectors.
    Because when DLF was coming up , they had all the land in the world to develop as everything was barren at that time , sec-14 was the poshest are of ggn at that time (also called as OLD dlf colony) , where as Palam vihar was surrounded by habited sectors (sec 23-23A) , then Old ggn sector (4,5,7) on both sides and Land was not available for the highrise development.....

    People want to move to new areas, as they are better developed and are better planned. However, the gurgaon created by DLF / Unitech / Ansals is not very well planned as they also did not anticipate such mad scramble for space. Also DLF converted a lot of earlier marked residential area to commercial area as it offered them better ROI. But in the process it did not factor in adequate roads, water, basic infrastructure. By the time the government realised its fault, it was too late and the development was already at a fast pace. Also these real estate firms greased palms sufficiently so all clearances were given on time and no difficult questions were asked.
    However, under the new master plan, all future development is being done in a planned manner, so in the days to come, we will see a marked shift in preferences for new planned development as against unplanned ones done by greedy builders ! As people got a choice, they moved from old gurgaon to DLF, sushant lok, south city, etc, as it offered them a better style of living, once these new areas develop, people from established areas will move to new, well planned sectors. Anybody who lives in gurgaon can appreciate the traffic mess gurgaon is in.

    * Why not areas adjoining kapas Heda Border is getting better appreciation?
    (because of existing delhi population , kapashera comes under delhi and the habitation was there even at that point of time and it was surrounded by industrial plots of udyog vihar)

    True, also the approach road is in shambles , and lot of unauthorised colonies are there.


    * How much time Ancillary development like Hospitals, Malls, Commercial Offices etc take?
    Ancillary development takes around 7-8 yrs to come up however the most imp things reqd are ROAD , sewer and water and ELEC

    True


    * Honestly I dont have the guts to buy on D way at 4800 price.

    Neither can I ... as on date, tomorrow is another day, though !

    YOur call totally

    * People who bought at 3000-3500 are sitting pretty but I am not sure what kind of return will i get after investing at 4800.

    You might not get premium in 33-4 months , but if ur doing it , then be ready for a gestation period of around 3 yrs for good ROI

    * The whole of new Palam vihar is unauthorised/dingy/low class area. How will it co exist with the luxury offerings of Shobha, ATS??
    DId u see the area where DLF has come up now , before DLF was there , trust me New palam vihar is still better (at that time DLF 3 was in the middle of a village) , SL 1 still has a village in it , DLF 2 is next to sikanderpur village

    Behind GC road towards sushant lok 2 there are loads of slums which are not going away for a few yrs now


    True , There is an old saying, in order to enjoy the beauty of Mumbai, pls step back three paces from the window of your flat and then see (Otherwise you will also see the slums nearby)
    * Clearly the units falling on D way may be demolished but will the thousands and thousands of unauthorized residential, commercial and industrial units be ever removed from new Palam Vihar/ D way sectors

    As the rates of the are go up , more and more ppl start selling their patched of land to builders ( these colonies will be regularised once the infra is provided by the govt and some plots from HUDA are floated in the market for these sectors)

    Honestly I dont have the courage/vision to but at 4700/4800. Rest time will tell if my apprehensions are right or wrong


    Absolutely


    PS : I am not justifying the price of 4800 psf for ATS at this point , I am just waiting for 8th nov when the tender has to be awarded for sector roads of D Eway...
    Originally Posted by nipsy
    Your post makes sense Zorin bhai....

    1, 2, ka 4 karne ke liye JIGAR chahiye.

    1 khokha laga kar 4-5 saal tak bhool jaane ka aur aaraam se soney ka.....
    Har roz forum par aakar khali-peeli shoor nahi karne ka......
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by rdhawan15
    This is one smart strategy that could come from someone who is a veteran in the industry. So, you basically piggyback on the buzz generated by the new launch and make profits elsewhere with a different builder.

    Nice way. Obvious due diligence needs to be performed still.


    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks Sir,, I am learning here the ways and am much aware personally.. Key points in support of the above strategy are
    1] Low capital involvement suitable for those looking for finance or CLP
    2] Projects in 104 may be at an advanced stage
    3] All information/specifics will be available like Approval status, floor plan, mapping, construction status, BBA etc
    4] No need to worry subtle nuances due to lack of information (eg lift being next to your bedroom and other small nuances, whos the contractor etc)
    5] This strategy is largely insulated of uncertainties of Dway/litigation/Long waiting/justification of Premiums paid
    6] Clear headway of 3 months before ATS 104 launch (projected end Jan12), so no rush.
    7] Those attracted by hype and looking for value/fencesitters/ those who miss the bus will always find these options easy to buy in resale. Resale as Zorin111 very rightly pointed out in case of ATS will be a bit of problem in the initial 3 years..
    Risks associated would be perceived lesser as compared to high launch price of premium launches.

    For benefit of those who missed the earlier post due to speed of this thread pasting here link for
    INVESTMENT STRATEGY DWAY PART2-- THE ATS SAGA https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/other-forums/legal-vastu-home-loans/home-loans-in-india/1350-affect-of-warning-from-the-regulator-on-home-loan-portfolios?p=2005#post1350

    Your take..
    CommentQuote
  • THANK YOU.........

    Hello again

    Greetings!!

    This "Thank You" is for taking Dway opportunity in a positive manner & not outrightly rejecting dway as was happening on this thread so far..............

    Nice to see someone "among Best of IREF members" TALK SERIOUS on dway.. I am sure your strategy if followed tactfully will make a few more millionaires...






    Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    Quiet logical viewpoint and do like the approach. Few dedcutions..
    Price of dway should be 50-60% of gcx...so about 2500-3000 cheaper than GCX,
    ROI expectation 20%+
    Time frame 10years+,
    Resale will be problamatic (due to oversupply, lack of infra/habitation)
    Ticket size becomes too big for DP and CLP would be a sensible option..
    (Please correct Zorin11 if any of the assumptions is not in place)

    ATS coming to dway definitely provides an opportunity to make money. The experiences of 109, should be better utilised by those who missed the opportunity. Focus now on 104.
    Wait!!! my thinking is as follows, need to understand this;
    Chintels 109 was 3300 in July11 and is prospectively looking at 4000 due to ATS launch and new phase by Chintel at higher price (4500 say).. This has offered smart investors to rake in a moolah check illustration https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/hyderabad-real-estate/1059-wholeseller-huda-will-no-longer-retail-land-to-ordinary-citizens?p=116969#post116969

    If one follows the illustration above and is convinced can move forward with the same logic simply replicate in 104

    Now, Time is to turn sight to 104 where ATS will do some high decible marketing, online and offline activities, loyal customers contributing to the hype etc..

    Get hold of dependable builder in 104, lying low, and assume a price for ATS at least Rs1000DP in excess of current market price of a "good project" currently in 104. This is going by precedent of 109 (chintel 20% paid CLP 3300 vs ATS DP 4300) Add to the 109 precedent some extra hype, talk of lauches Shobha 5Cr and Puri, etc.

    I think there is an opportunity to make a cool stash in 104 now.. it has happened in 109 will happen here as well. Minimum Profit expectation similar to Investment strategy 1 in link above..(so go back to that Link and study carefully)

    MAKES SENSE?? THEN GO FOR IT..
    Querries welcome. Best of Luck and happy investing!!!!:bab (6):

    PS: Check your priorities, finances, expectations, choice of builder, time horizon, entry and exit at your discretion..
    Early entry in a good builder in 104 while ATS marketing goes full throttle in a months time will give everyone a substantial go ahead..
    CommentQuote
  • Beautiful analysis, mindblowing if i could say ... It is magic !

    However, a few things need to be ascertained !

    e.g. ATS doesn't do it through dealers, they do it direct. Now since it was their first project in Gurgaon, everybody associated with them was naturally interested to have a pie, but what about the second phase...can it do equally well ?

    Let me do some reality checks on sec 104

    Thanks

    Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    Quiet logical viewpoint and do like the approach. Few dedcutions..
    Price of dway should be 50-60% of gcx...so about 2500-3000 cheaper than GCX,
    ROI expectation 20%+
    Time frame 10years+,
    Resale will be problamatic (due to oversupply, lack of infra/habitation)
    Ticket size becomes too big for DP and CLP would be a sensible option..
    (Please correct Zorin11 if any of the assumptions is not in place)

    ATS coming to dway definitely provides an opportunity to make money. The experiences of 109, should be better utilised by those who missed the opportunity. Focus now on 104.
    Wait!!! my thinking is as follows, need to understand this;
    Chintels 109 was 3300 in July11 and is prospectively looking at 4000 due to ATS launch and new phase by Chintel at higher price (4500 say).. This has offered smart investors to rake in a moolah check illustration https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/hyderabad-real-estate/1059-wholeseller-huda-will-no-longer-retail-land-to-ordinary-citizens?p=116969#post116969

    If one follows the illustration above and is convinced can move forward with the same logic simply replicate in 104

    Now, Time is to turn sight to 104 where ATS will do some high decible marketing, online and offline activities, loyal customers contributing to the hype etc..

    Get hold of dependable builder in 104, lying low, and assume a price for ATS at least Rs1000DP in excess of current market price of a "good project" currently in 104. This is going by precedent of 109 (chintel 20% paid CLP 3300 vs ATS DP 4300) Add to the 109 precedent some extra hype, talk of lauches Shobha 5Cr and Puri, etc.

    I think there is an opportunity to make a cool stash in 104 now.. it has happened in 109 will happen here as well. Minimum Profit expectation similar to Investment strategy 1 in link above..(so go back to that Link and study carefully)

    MAKES SENSE?? THEN GO FOR IT..
    Querries welcome. Best of Luck and happy investing!!!!:bab (6):

    PS: Check your priorities, finances, expectations, choice of builder, time horizon, entry and exit at your discretion..
    Early entry in a good builder in 104 while ATS marketing goes full throttle in a months time will give everyone a substantial go ahead..
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by zorin111
    Beautiful analysis, mindblowing if i could say ... It is magic !

    However, a few things need to be ascertained !

    e.g. ATS doesn't do it through dealers, they do it direct. Now since it was their first project in Gurgaon, everybody associated with them was naturally interested to have a pie, but what about the second phase...can it do equally well ?

    Let me do some reality checks on sec 104

    Thanks


    Hi
    Greetings

    I must say Zorin111, the real thanks is to you.. I must admit its your post and approach mentioned which tickled my grey cells.. This strategy is a simple theory about the Rs1 note auction game theory, which I tried to share with you earlier (if you remember).

    Now, making money is very much associated with the decisioning and we have to act fast.. Regarding Reality Check on 104 I have a humble excel which you may consult to see projects available in 104 and close vicinity. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCW4pub6d78dGxWN2VRZGdva1hmaC1UVklMRE5hVEE&hl=en_GB&pli=1#gid=0

    For benefit of those who missed the earlier post due to speed of this thread pasting here link for
    INVESTMENT STRATEGY DWAY PART2-- THE ATS SAGA https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/other-forums/legal-vastu-home-loans/home-loans-in-india/1350-affect-of-warning-from-the-regulator-on-home-loan-portfolios?p=2005#post1350

    Thanks once again for your kind words though mate..

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by nipsy
    Hello again

    Greetings!!

    This "Thank You" is for taking Dway opportunity in a positive manner & not outrightly rejecting dway as was happening on this thread so far..............

    Nice to see someone "among Best of IREF members" TALK SERIOUS on dway.. I am sure your strategy if followed tactfully will make a few more millionaires...


    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks to you mate.. it so nice of you to have anointed me "among best of IREF members". I am enthralled and have regained some credibility with your words.. Cant say more.. I am humbled!!

    I am most serious about dway thats why I try to scath even the minutest of the information which can matter mine and investment of 100s of NRIs/Investors/EndUsers who get beguilled by sweet talking marketeers.. I am sorry as I get a bit harsh at times and if I have ever hurt anybody..
    This conflict would be more on ideological term than personal animosity with fellow member.. Being passionate about investments I tend to get caught a bit into nuances as I am a discerning personality..
    Surely being called a Broker or an person lacking credibility, with multiple suspension happening for reasons that are trivial and biased, does make me follow my emotions which I shall control now..

    Still will take this opportunity to thank you once again and you are most welcome :bab (6):

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • LOL:D. Great advise for people who have already invested in ATS ( the highlighted part, especially )

    Originally Posted by nipsy
    Your post makes sense Zorin bhai....

    1, 2, ka 4 karne ke liye JIGAR chahiye.

    1 khokha laga kar 4-5 saal tak bhool jaane ka aur aaraam se soney ka.....
    Har roz forum par aakar khali-peeli shoor nahi karne ka......
    CommentQuote