Heard that ATS is coming up with their Residential project in sec 109 in 14 acres , next to atharva.....

Anybody having any more info on this....????
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  • FAR and no of towers

    Originally Posted by rmnoida


    BlessU,

    I think you have done a remarkable job in collating all the information about various apartment complexes on DEway. Do you think it make sense to add this information into the spreadsheet as well ..


    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks for the kind words.
    Your idea is a genuine one and shall try to incorporate. Normally all builders are allowed to sell 1.75 FAR and that is the standard for Haryana I believe.. major goof up occurs in Loading and increase in super area. Far for Noida is much higher though.. was reading https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/greater-noida-real-estate/greater-noida-and-noida-extension/18714-far-raised-to-3-75-for-greater-noida/page5?t=20892&page=5

    Your concern is genuine as no one would like to live in a cramped claustrophobic building. As i learn many in Noida/GN/GHZ dont even have suitable parking space just because of higher FAR approvals

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks for the kind words.
    Your idea is a genuine one and shall try to incorporate. Normally all builders are allowed to sell 1.75 FAR and that is the standard for Haryana I believe.. major goof up occurs in Loading and increase in super area. Far for Noida is much higher though.. was reading https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/greater-noida-real-estate/greater-noida-and-noida-extension/18714-far-raised-to-3-75-for-greater-noida/page5?t=20892&page=5

    Your concern is genuine as no one would like to live in a cramped claustrophobic building. As i learn many in Noida/GN/GHZ dont even have suitable parking space just because of higher FAR approvals

    Cheers


    Thanks BlessU.

    I will not say that all NOIDA/GN apartments have high FAR but the new ones definitely have. 3C Lotus as an example though constructing at a remarkable pace, has such a high apartment density that it makes me shudder to live there.
    CommentQuote

  • I have corrected the 4 BHK nos. now since my initial post. I had incorrectly put 22 units for a 4BHK tower that resulted incorrectly a per sqft cost of Rs 3281.




    Originally Posted by treo55
    The crux of the matter is ATS kokoon has already earned the dubious distinction of being the most overpriced project in Gurgaon/DE way.(what has happened on this thread is but only a testimony to that - the debates are good display of participants conviction)
    In my opinion it should be priced at 3500 and 4500-4700 is a good price for me to get out of this after 2 years
    Personally i feel that In this DE region, be ready with cash, there will be enormous opportunities coming at a location near you.
    Like somone pointed out earlier 18 km of express way with 2km on each side - its not gonna dissapear in a hurry! If it sounds like its gonna dissapear soon, run for cover coz after 4 years this place will be a graveyard for investors and noone can talk his way out of that risk.


    Lot of folks have mentioned the price point as being quite high. I want to pay 40L (Rs 2000/sqft) only for this whereas if ATS could, they will happily charge at Rs 10K/sqft like prime Gurgaon properties if there was any demand at that price !
    I've attempted some simple maths as below:-

    1. From ATS's website, we have the following information - "ATS Group has already acquired two licensed land parcels in the city – approx 12.2 acres in Sector 109, and approx 10.5 acres in Sector 104, Gurgaon, to give shape to their projects. Both these lands parcels are along the Northern Periphery Road (NPR) that is proposed to connect Delhi International Airport via Dwarka to National Highway 8. An initial investment of approx Rs. 140 Cr for acquisition on the land parcels has already been made by the company. The company is likely to invest over Rs. 400 Cr to develop these projects."

    --> Total cost of land acquisition + development = 540 cr. (or is it 400 Cr. total ?)

    2. I'm assuming that Sec. 104 is going to be replica of 109 plan. That would mean 8 towers of 3bhk and 4 towers of 4bhk.

    Unit Type | Size | Units/Tower | No. of Towers| Total Sqft.
    3 BHK | 1800 | 44 | 8 | 633600 Sqft
    3 BHK+ | 2100 | 44 | 8 | 739200 Sqft
    4 BHK | 3100 | 44 | 4 | 545600 Sqft
    Total 1918400 Sqft

    3. So 5400000000/1918400= Rs 2814/ sqft.

    4. This doesn't takes into account there cost for raising 540 cr.

    Now that's your cost basis if all assumptions are correct (BTW feel free to point and correct any discrepancy).

    4. Can the gurus in the forum point out whats the margin for RE developers ? The cost basis itself looks high to me and at 4300 its a 50% margin which still seems too low to me.

    5. If all facts are correct -you want this for 3500 ? That's a stretch.

    6. The million $ question for me and others are that at 4700/4800 CLP where is this investment going head ?
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by sikkaji
    Lot of folks have mentioned the price point as being quite high. I want to pay 40L (Rs 2000/sqft) only for this whereas if ATS could, they will happily charge at Rs 10K/sqft like prime Gurgaon properties if there was any demand at that price !
    I've attempted some simple maths as below:-

    1. From ATS's website, we have the following information - "ATS Group has already acquired two licensed land parcels in the city – approx 12.2 acres in Sector 109, and approx 10.5 acres in Sector 104, Gurgaon, to give shape to their projects. Both these lands parcels are along the Northern Periphery Road (NPR) that is proposed to connect Delhi International Airport via Dwarka to National Highway 8. An initial investment of approx Rs. 140 Cr for acquisition on the land parcels has already been made by the company. The company is likely to invest over Rs. 400 Cr to develop these projects."

    --> Total cost of land acquisition + development = 540 cr. (or is it 400 Cr. total ?)

    2. I'm assuming that Sec. 104 is going to be replica of 109 plan. That would mean 8 towers of 3bhk and 4 towers of 4bhk.

    Unit Type | Size | Units/Tower | No. of Towers| Total Sqft.
    3 BHK | 1800 | 44 | 8 | 633600 Sqft
    3 BHK+ | 2100 | 44 | 8 | 739200 Sqft
    4 BHK | 3100 | 22 | 4 | 272800 Sqft
    Total 1645600 Sqft

    3. So 5400000000/1645600 = Rs 3281/ sqft.

    4. This doesn't takes into account there cost for raising 540 cr.

    Now that's your cost basis if all assumptions are correct (BTW feel free to point and correct any discrepancy).

    4. Can the gurus in the forum point out whats the margin for RE developers ? The cost basis itself looks high to me and at 4300 its a 30% margin which seems too low to me.

    5. If all facts are correct -you want this for 3500 ? dream on.

    6. The million $ question for me and others are that at 4700/4800 CLP where is this investment going head ?


    Hi
    Greetings

    Amazing stuff mate. Absolutely "imaculate effort", is what I can say without going into the Management Accounting Part..

    Definitely gives enough food for thought..

    Was trying to keep away from it but would have be trying/looking for an answer myself.. should develop a cost sheet for this as well..surely

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Super Area give Super tension

    Originally Posted by rmnoida
    Thanks BlessU.

    I will not say that all NOIDA/GN apartments have high FAR but the new ones definitely have. 3C Lotus as an example though constructing at a remarkable pace, has such a high apartment density that it makes me shudder to live there.


    Hi
    Greetings

    Thats absolutely right.. and as mentioned earlier this is the main culprit or the reason for greed of our builders. Many many emotions are available on the link in my last post https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/greater-noida-real-estate/greater-noida-and-noida-extension/18714-far-raised-to-3-75-for-greater-noida/page5?t=20892&page=5 crying to prevent FAR from increasing..

    It is possible to happen in haryana as well and am sure builder lobby would be pursuing with govt to increase the same to make an extra killing at the expense of the customers...

    Just got a PM from one investor in ATS complaining about Super Area increase without increasing carpet area. Probably did not want to be disclosed..
    "ATS has increased super area of their Paradiso project in Greater Noida just to escape from delay penalty clause - 2 and half years delay in project delievry.
    There was no increase in carpet area and the reason given was they forgot to include overhead and underground water tank etc.

    SA of 1600 sqft flat was increased to 1700.
    2000 sqft flat was increased to 2150."


    updated on Homes from hell :bab (45):on link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCW4pub6d78dGxWN2VRZGdva1hmaC1UVklMRE5hVEE#gid=2 containing information, news, projects, brokers, maps, of dwarka expressway projects

    though a reasonable increase/decrease of 5% looks decent enough but increase can inflate the budget for a small home owner. Definitely in this case a delay of 2.5 years was not warranted and unpleasant.

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    Thats absolutely right.. and as mentioned earlier this is the main culprit or the reason for greed of our builders. Many many emotions are available on the link in my last post https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/greater-noida-real-estate/greater-noida-and-noida-extension/18714-far-raised-to-3-75-for-greater-noida/page5?t=20892&page=5 crying to prevent FAR from increasing..

    It is possible to happen in haryana as well and am sure builder lobby would be pursuing with govt to increase the same to make an extra killing at the expense of the customers...

    Just got a PM from one investor in ATS complaining about Super Area increase without increasing carpet area. Probably did not want to be disclosed..
    "ATS has increased super area of their Paradiso project in Greater Noida just to escape from delay penalty clause - 2 and half years delay in project delievry.
    There was no increase in carpet area and the reason given was they forgot to include overhead and underground water tank etc.

    SA of 1600 sqft flat was increased to 1700.
    2000 sqft flat was increased to 2150."


    updated on Homes from hell :bab (45):on link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AkCW4pub6d78dGxWN2VRZGdva1hmaC1UVklMRE5hVEE#gid=2 containing information, news, projects, brokers, maps, of dwarka expressway projects

    though a reasonable increase/decrease of 5% looks decent enough but increase can inflate the budget for a small home owner. Definitely in this case a delay of 2.5 years was not warranted and unpleasant.

    Cheers


    This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

    BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by rmnoida
    This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

    BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.


    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks for clarity on ph1/2
    Thats UNFAIR.. ekk ko maa ka ekk ko mausi ka...

    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by BlessU
    Hi
    Greetings

    Thanks for clarity on ph1/2
    Thats UNFAIR.. ekk ko maa ka ekk ko mausi ka...

    Cheers


    You can say that way .. Aur maa wale ko jaldi bhi dia and sqft bhi gift kiya. Mausi wale ko delay kiya aur extra sqft bhi charge kiya.

    But rather than making everybody unhappy, they made half of them unhappy and half of them their hard core fans ..

    That is why for ATS, you will find either their hard core fans (like VB, Rahul etc,) or some unhappy customers who thinks that they are nothing more than run of the mill builder.

    People who invested in ATS greens - I, II, Village, Paradiso PH1, Derabassi will generally say good things about ATS.

    People who invested in ATS Paradiso Ph2, Indirapuram, Gurgaon(earlier project) and Dehradun project will generally be unhappy with them.
    CommentQuote
  • Bro, I also hav a flat in so called Ph-1, both phases were delayed, not just Ph-2....

    Originally Posted by rmnoida
    This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

    BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by sikkaji

    I have corrected the 4 BHK nos. now since my initial post. I had incorrectly put 22 units for a 4BHK tower that resulted incorrectly a per sqft cost of Rs 3281.






    Lot of folks have mentioned the price point as being quite high. I want to pay 40L (Rs 2000/sqft) only for this whereas if ATS could, they will happily charge at Rs 10K/sqft like prime Gurgaon properties if there was any demand at that price !
    I've attempted some simple maths as below:-

    1. From ATS's website, we have the following information - "ATS Group has already acquired two licensed land parcels in the city – approx 12.2 acres in Sector 109, and approx 10.5 acres in Sector 104, Gurgaon, to give shape to their projects. Both these lands parcels are along the Northern Periphery Road (NPR) that is proposed to connect Delhi International Airport via Dwarka to National Highway 8. An initial investment of approx Rs. 140 Cr for acquisition on the land parcels has already been made by the company. The company is likely to invest over Rs. 400 Cr to develop these projects."

    --> Total cost of land acquisition + development = 540 cr. (or is it 400 Cr. total ?)

    2. I'm assuming that Sec. 104 is going to be replica of 109 plan. That would mean 8 towers of 3bhk and 4 towers of 4bhk.

    Unit Type | Size | Units/Tower | No. of Towers| Total Sqft.
    3 BHK | 1800 | 44 | 8 | 633600 Sqft
    3 BHK+ | 2100 | 44 | 8 | 739200 Sqft
    4 BHK | 3100 | 44 | 4 | 545600 Sqft
    Total 1918400 Sqft

    3. So 5400000000/1918400= Rs 2814/ sqft.

    4. This doesn't takes into account there cost for raising 540 cr.

    Now that's your cost basis if all assumptions are correct (BTW feel free to point and correct any discrepancy).

    4. Can the gurus in the forum point out whats the margin for RE developers ? The cost basis itself looks high to me and at 4300 its a 50% margin which still seems too low to me.

    5. If all facts are correct -you want this for 3500 ? That's a stretch.

    6. The million $ question for me and others are that at 4700/4800 CLP where is this investment going head ?

    Calculations:
    Total sq ft area = 1918400
    Cost of Land = 140 cr/ 1918400 = 730 psf
    Cost of construction = 400cr/1918400 = 2085 psf !
    Total ATS investment = 140 cr only , because it will get 4300 as DP so thats about 825 crore (4300*Total sqft).
    Immediate profit made on an investment of 140 cr is ( 825-140) = 685 cr which is about 500% ROI (not to be sneezed at !!) and this has been done before a spoon of dirt is moved on the site.
    Now lets say ATS takes only 3 years to deliver. If ATS simply invests this bulk amount in the market for paltry 15% returns (even FDs offer 10% now) it gains 124 crore per year in interest alone. At this rate 124*3 = 375 so the interest itself will pay for the construction.
    The interest from this day 1 profit contructs the house for you at 2k construction cost.
    (Ofcourse my example is tax neutral)
    Now throw in the late delivery, loading ratio or all the usual the profit can be geared for any % ATS desires anytime during the project- not that i am hinting they would do so knowing they have to reputation to save.
    (*BTW i thought 4300 was only the BSP - what is the final outgo?)
    CommentQuote
  • vb Ji, Mossad se collaboration kar rahe ho for collating the information ?? Kuch minute likha tha, kucch years likhna tao chha nahi rahe thein ?

    ................ya, kuuch exposure ke daar se details nahi de rahe, which is set to change some opinions or get lot of reaction from certain bloggers.


    Originally Posted by MANOJa
    It has been 4 days + & we have been waiting for that information which is set to change some opinions or get lot of reaction from certain bloggers.

    I hope it has been now collated . Don't deprive other Bloggers of some path breaking information, which u seem to have .
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by treo55
    Calculations:
    Total sq ft area = 1918400
    Cost of Land = 140 cr/ 1918400 = 730 psf
    Cost of construction = 400cr/1918400 = 2085 psf !
    Total ATS investment = 140 cr only , because it will get 4300 as DP so thats about 825 crore (4300*Total sqft).
    Immediate profit made on an investment of 140 cr is ( 825-140) = 685 cr which is about 500% ROI (not to be sneezed at !!) and this has been done before a spoon of dirt is moved on the site.
    Now lets say ATS takes only 3 years to deliver. If ATS simply invests this bulk amount in the market for paltry 15% returns (even FDs offer 10% now) it gains 124 crore per year in interest alone. At this rate 124*3 = 375 so the interest itself will pay for the construction.
    The interest from this day 1 profit contructs the house for you at 2k construction cost.
    (Ofcourse my example is tax neutral)
    Now throw in the late delivery, loading ratio or all the usual the profit can be geared for any % ATS desires anytime during the project- not that i am hinting they would do so knowing they have to reputation to save.
    (*BTW i thought 4300 was only the BSP - what is the final outgo?)

    Hi
    Greetings

    Amazing stuff.. like I said project cost sheet is not rocket science or euclidean mathematics.. its simple "+, _ ,X, /, and time period" raised to the power greed:D

    Rest to add to it..in 2000+ sq ft cost of construction you may make a mighty Tajmahal out of it with marble from Italy instead of Makrana and best of specs...(including material/fixtures/fittings + architect/civil/electrical/lanscaping contractors)

    To a large extent I am agreeable with treos calculations except for some MARKETING COST:D for online marketing people not included..
    Also on the serious side costs of greasing palms, licence fees/renewals, and departmental sanctions, office expenses, salaries of staff, communication, entertainment, etc may be added.

    As rightly pointed these can easily be adjusted with an increase in Loading as per convenience..;)

    Also this money (685cr) will be put for another project for LOYAL customers instead of stupid bank rate of interests.. anxiety of many such allegiant customers cant be held back, cajoling the builders to lauch next phases at higer greed exponents:D or call it "loyalty premium" (premium paid for being loyal;))


    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • this Happens in all Projekts and is a Norm in RE. to Launch in phases. atleast the customers Know about it. also the expected roi is directly proportional to the beta Factor of an Investment. so if One Wants to have higher returns then he has to Invest earlier. its nothing New.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Indiaa
    this Happens in all Projekts and is a Norm in RE. to Launch in phases. atleast the customers Know about it. also the expected roi is directly proportional to the beta Factor of an Investment. so if One Wants to have higher returns then he has to Invest earlier. its nothing New.


    Hi
    Greetings

    Yes thats correct was just attempting at correcting at getting the right interpretation for the beta coefficient in RE which is far higher than a simple bank interest rate.. and was trying to apprise him that certain loyalists dont mind paying even if it is raised to the power theta or gamma..

    I think I was not talking standing on top of mount Everest:bab (38): something less technical I mean.. request some reactions if you agree to my earlier post??


    Cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Cafe - along with the ATS loyalists . Kaya paata wah pe bhi kuuch understanding ho:bab (45):!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Originally Posted by sikkaji
    Bhallaji - ......................

    I guess till NPR comes, ATS wants its users to sip coffee at its cafe :)
    CommentQuote