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ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

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ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

Last updated: May 27 2019
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  • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

    Super Area give Super tension

    Originally posted by rmnoida View Post
    Thanks BlessU.

    I will not say that all NOIDA/GN apartments have high FAR but the new ones definitely have. 3C Lotus as an example though constructing at a remarkable pace, has such a high apartment density that it makes me shudder to live there.
    Hi
    Greetings

    Thats absolutely right.. and as mentioned earlier this is the main culprit or the reason for greed of our builders. Many many emotions are available on the link in my last post https://www.indianrealestateforum.co...t=20892&page=5 crying to prevent FAR from increasing..

    It is possible to happen in haryana as well and am sure builder lobby would be pursuing with govt to increase the same to make an extra killing at the expense of the customers...

    Just got a PM from one investor in ATS complaining about Super Area increase without increasing carpet area. Probably did not want to be disclosed..
    "ATS has increased super area of their Paradiso project in Greater Noida just to escape from delay penalty clause - 2 and half years delay in project delievry.
    There was no increase in carpet area and the reason given was they forgot to include overhead and underground water tank etc.

    SA of 1600 sqft flat was increased to 1700.
    2000 sqft flat was increased to 2150."


    updated on Homes from hell on link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...MRE5hVEE#gid=2 containing information, news, projects, brokers, maps, of dwarka expressway projects

    though a reasonable increase/decrease of 5% looks decent enough but increase can inflate the budget for a small home owner. Definitely in this case a delay of 2.5 years was not warranted and unpleasant.

    Cheers

    Comment


    • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

      Originally posted by BlessU View Post
      Hi
      Greetings

      Thats absolutely right.. and as mentioned earlier this is the main culprit or the reason for greed of our builders. Many many emotions are available on the link in my last post https://www.indianrealestateforum.co...t=20892&page=5 crying to prevent FAR from increasing..

      It is possible to happen in haryana as well and am sure builder lobby would be pursuing with govt to increase the same to make an extra killing at the expense of the customers...

      Just got a PM from one investor in ATS complaining about Super Area increase without increasing carpet area. Probably did not want to be disclosed..
      "ATS has increased super area of their Paradiso project in Greater Noida just to escape from delay penalty clause - 2 and half years delay in project delievry.
      There was no increase in carpet area and the reason given was they forgot to include overhead and underground water tank etc.

      SA of 1600 sqft flat was increased to 1700.
      2000 sqft flat was increased to 2150."


      updated on Homes from hell on link https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...MRE5hVEE#gid=2 containing information, news, projects, brokers, maps, of dwarka expressway projects

      though a reasonable increase/decrease of 5% looks decent enough but increase can inflate the budget for a small home owner. Definitely in this case a delay of 2.5 years was not warranted and unpleasant.

      Cheers
      This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

      BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.

      Comment


      • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

        Originally posted by rmnoida View Post
        This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

        BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.
        Hi
        Greetings

        Thanks for clarity on ph1/2
        Thats UNFAIR.. ekk ko maa ka ekk ko mausi ka...

        Cheers

        Comment


        • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

          Originally posted by BlessU View Post
          Hi
          Greetings

          Thanks for clarity on ph1/2
          Thats UNFAIR.. ekk ko maa ka ekk ko mausi ka...

          Cheers
          You can say that way .. Aur maa wale ko jaldi bhi dia and sqft bhi gift kiya. Mausi wale ko delay kiya aur extra sqft bhi charge kiya.

          But rather than making everybody unhappy, they made half of them unhappy and half of them their hard core fans ..

          That is why for ATS, you will find either their hard core fans (like VB, Rahul etc,) or some unhappy customers who thinks that they are nothing more than run of the mill builder.

          People who invested in ATS greens - I, II, Village, Paradiso PH1, Derabassi will generally say good things about ATS.

          People who invested in ATS Paradiso Ph2, Indirapuram, Gurgaon(earlier project) and Dehradun project will generally be unhappy with them.

          Comment


          • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

            Bro, I also hav a flat in so called Ph-1, both phases were delayed, not just Ph-2....

            Originally posted by rmnoida View Post
            This is correct - But it was done for only Phase 2 customers. Phase 1 customers were given this additional sqft as a gift .. So, even though their registry was done at 1700/2150 sqft, they only paid for 1600/2000 sqft.

            BTW, Phase 1 mainly contained their loyalist.

            Comment


            • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

              Originally posted by sikkaji View Post

              I have corrected the 4 BHK nos. now since my initial post. I had incorrectly put 22 units for a 4BHK tower that resulted incorrectly a per sqft cost of Rs 3281.






              Lot of folks have mentioned the price point as being quite high. I want to pay 40L (Rs 2000/sqft) only for this whereas if ATS could, they will happily charge at Rs 10K/sqft like prime Gurgaon properties if there was any demand at that price !
              I've attempted some simple maths as below:-

              1. From ATS's website, we have the following information - "ATS Group has already acquired two licensed land parcels in the city – approx 12.2 acres in Sector 109, and approx 10.5 acres in Sector 104, Gurgaon, to give shape to their projects. Both these lands parcels are along the Northern Periphery Road (NPR) that is proposed to connect Delhi International Airport via Dwarka to National Highway 8. An initial investment of approx Rs. 140 Cr for acquisition on the land parcels has already been made by the company. The company is likely to invest over Rs. 400 Cr to develop these projects."

              --> Total cost of land acquisition + development = 540 cr. (or is it 400 Cr. total ?)

              2. I'm assuming that Sec. 104 is going to be replica of 109 plan. That would mean 8 towers of 3bhk and 4 towers of 4bhk.

              Unit Type | Size | Units/Tower | No. of Towers| Total Sqft.
              3 BHK | 1800 | 44 | 8 | 633600 Sqft
              3 BHK+ | 2100 | 44 | 8 | 739200 Sqft
              4 BHK | 3100 | 44 | 4 | 545600 Sqft
              Total 1918400 Sqft

              3. So 5400000000/1918400= Rs 2814/ sqft.

              4. This doesn't takes into account there cost for raising 540 cr.

              Now that's your cost basis if all assumptions are correct (BTW feel free to point and correct any discrepancy).

              4. Can the gurus in the forum point out whats the margin for RE developers ? The cost basis itself looks high to me and at 4300 its a 50% margin which still seems too low to me.

              5. If all facts are correct -you want this for 3500 ? That's a stretch.

              6. The million $ question for me and others are that at 4700/4800 CLP where is this investment going head ?
              Calculations:
              Total sq ft area = 1918400
              Cost of Land = 140 cr/ 1918400 = 730 psf
              Cost of construction = 400cr/1918400 = 2085 psf !
              Total ATS investment = 140 cr only , because it will get 4300 as DP so thats about 825 crore (4300*Total sqft).
              Immediate profit made on an investment of 140 cr is ( 825-140) = 685 cr which is about 500% ROI (not to be sneezed at !!) and this has been done before a spoon of dirt is moved on the site.
              Now lets say ATS takes only 3 years to deliver. If ATS simply invests this bulk amount in the market for paltry 15% returns (even FDs offer 10% now) it gains 124 crore per year in interest alone. At this rate 124*3 = 375 so the interest itself will pay for the construction.
              The interest from this day 1 profit contructs the house for you at 2k construction cost.
              (Ofcourse my example is tax neutral)
              Now throw in the late delivery, loading ratio or all the usual the profit can be geared for any % ATS desires anytime during the project- not that i am hinting they would do so knowing they have to reputation to save.
              (*BTW i thought 4300 was only the BSP - what is the final outgo?)

              Comment


              • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

                vb Ji, Mossad se collaboration kar rahe ho for collating the information ?? Kuch minute likha tha, kucch years likhna tao chha nahi rahe thein ?

                ................ya, kuuch exposure ke daar se details nahi de rahe, which is set to change some opinions or get lot of reaction from certain bloggers.


                Originally posted by MANOJa View Post
                It has been 4 days + & we have been waiting for that information which is set to change some opinions or get lot of reaction from certain bloggers.

                I hope it has been now collated . Don't deprive other Bloggers of some path breaking information, which u seem to have .
                Please read IREF rules | FAQ's

                Comment


                • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

                  Originally posted by treo55 View Post
                  Calculations:
                  Total sq ft area = 1918400
                  Cost of Land = 140 cr/ 1918400 = 730 psf
                  Cost of construction = 400cr/1918400 = 2085 psf !
                  Total ATS investment = 140 cr only , because it will get 4300 as DP so thats about 825 crore (4300*Total sqft).
                  Immediate profit made on an investment of 140 cr is ( 825-140) = 685 cr which is about 500% ROI (not to be sneezed at !!) and this has been done before a spoon of dirt is moved on the site.
                  Now lets say ATS takes only 3 years to deliver. If ATS simply invests this bulk amount in the market for paltry 15% returns (even FDs offer 10% now) it gains 124 crore per year in interest alone. At this rate 124*3 = 375 so the interest itself will pay for the construction.
                  The interest from this day 1 profit contructs the house for you at 2k construction cost.
                  (Ofcourse my example is tax neutral)
                  Now throw in the late delivery, loading ratio or all the usual the profit can be geared for any % ATS desires anytime during the project- not that i am hinting they would do so knowing they have to reputation to save.
                  (*BTW i thought 4300 was only the BSP - what is the final outgo?)
                  Hi
                  Greetings

                  Amazing stuff.. like I said project cost sheet is not rocket science or euclidean mathematics.. its simple "+, _ ,X, /, and time period" raised to the power greed

                  Rest to add to it..in 2000+ sq ft cost of construction you may make a mighty Tajmahal out of it with marble from Italy instead of Makrana and best of specs...(including material/fixtures/fittings + architect/civil/electrical/lanscaping contractors)

                  To a large extent I am agreeable with treos calculations except for some MARKETING COST for online marketing people not included..
                  Also on the serious side costs of greasing palms, licence fees/renewals, and departmental sanctions, office expenses, salaries of staff, communication, entertainment, etc may be added.

                  As rightly pointed these can easily be adjusted with an increase in Loading as per convenience..

                  Also this money (685cr) will be put for another project for LOYAL customers instead of stupid bank rate of interests.. anxiety of many such allegiant customers cant be held back, cajoling the builders to lauch next phases at higer greed exponents or call it "loyalty premium" (premium paid for being loyal)


                  Cheers

                  Comment


                  • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

                    this Happens in all Projekts and is a Norm in RE. to Launch in phases. atleast the customers Know about it. also the expected roi is directly proportional to the beta Factor of an Investment. so if One Wants to have higher returns then he has to Invest earlier. its nothing New.

                    Comment


                    • Re : ATS Kocoon, ATS, Sector 109, Gurgaon

                      Originally posted by Indiaa View Post
                      this Happens in all Projekts and is a Norm in RE. to Launch in phases. atleast the customers Know about it. also the expected roi is directly proportional to the beta Factor of an Investment. so if One Wants to have higher returns then he has to Invest earlier. its nothing New.
                      Hi
                      Greetings

                      Yes thats correct was just attempting at correcting at getting the right interpretation for the beta coefficient in RE which is far higher than a simple bank interest rate.. and was trying to apprise him that certain loyalists dont mind paying even if it is raised to the power theta or gamma..

                      I think I was not talking standing on top of mount Everest something less technical I mean.. request some reactions if you agree to my earlier post??


                      Cheers

                      Comment

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