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Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

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Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

Last updated: August 14 2017
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  • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

    Originally posted by bippin View Post
    Its such a coincidence that there are many people born in 78(1978) buying in SSH.

    noida_78_2010
    owner in 78
    noida78
    Or is it because SSH is in sector 78 ?

    Comment


    • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

      Originally posted by noida_78_2010 View Post
      Hi owner_in_78,

      I had seen couple of your post regarding service tax; ....

      I am not sure why you made this tax thing is so complicated, this is very simple and straight forward.

      Tell me one thing, lets say I am a builder and you are buyer; I sold my flat to you on 100 rs (service tax extra , as per norms); now you need to pay me 100 rs + whatever service tax will be on 100rs (as per rule - it's 2.575%) ; so now you need to pay me 102.575 (including tax); very simple and straight forward calculation; So now at any cost , it could not excess to 102.575;
      Now if you pay 50 rs as a first amount ; I will adjust this as 48.74 (principal amount) + 1.26 (in account of service tax amount); and hence for future amount; and remember at last if you calculate total amount you paid should not more then 102.575 in this case, simple;

      -A
      If this is what they did in your case then you are good, but so far, I have heard of two cases where they screwed it up; therefore I suggested you all to double check.

      To expand on your example, they took 2.575 % out of my 50 rs, so I ended up paying 1.29 as tax and 48.71 as principle amt.

      Moreover, I didn't make it complicated on purpose; neither it was my intention to do so. I was just making you guys aware (w/ the example of my email to SSH) to look at your BBA and verify.

      Comment


      • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

        RAM BHAROSE!
        Developers want your money right now, but on their part, they will pay land price to Noida Authority by 2019. In case they don’t, who will take the brunt? What will be the status of flat buyers, if authority terminates lease for non-payment of land cost?

        If the number of readers’ letters is any indication, a big real estate scam is in the making at Noida. However, this one doesn’t concern doctors or army personnel, but all homebuyers. So it makes us sit up and take notice. As readers of Top Floor must be aware, in all new projects in Noida launched since 2009, the developers are asking for 80-90% of total cost to be paid by the time the structure is finished. “This scheme was fine as long as the builder had paid all the land cost to authority as it happened before 2009,” writes Narain Kohli, a reader, adding, “Post-2009, they are paying only 10% to authority and land is allotted to them. As for the rest of the money that they owe to the Noida Authority, they will start paying after two years in half-yearly installments spread over five years.”

        Keeping this in mind, Kohli and other readers say that the developers should ask only 60% of the cost for civil work and internal development. “Rest 40% should be demanded when they pay the land price to the authority,” they reason. But where does it smell of a scam? Experts say though the builders are already diverting funds meant for construction, chances of fund diversion are even higher now. “In the worst case, developers may escape from the project as they have made 40-50% profit already and not paying land cost,” says a consultant. And there is no way to force them to pay land cost. “This is a big risk to all new projects of Noida,” he says. For example, the approximate cost of FSI is Rs 1,000 psf. Average sale price of the apartment is Rs 2750 psf. The builder collects at least 40% (Rs 1100 psf) from the buyer without laying a single brick on ground. So his net cash flow is Rs 1000 psf and more.

        “Imagine if the builder develops the project in one go, completes within three years, collects the money and vanishes! Now who will pay the balance land cost to Noida Authority?” asks Kohli. “What will be the status of flat buyers, if authority terminates lease for non-payment of land cost? I think people should be aware of this issue and take it up with the developers, who should be insisted upon to give some legal declaration that they will pay all the land cost when project finishes.”


        We have heard some corporate buyers like NTPC, IOCL etc., have already done it. The problem, however, remains as to what value has a legal declaration? Can it be encashed? “The fact is that Noida Authority scheme is faulty because the agreement does not have any clause to correlate the sale by builder with the payment of balance land cost to authority,” says a broker, adding, “To me this is a big loophole. Buyers and banks have a risk. It is perhaps for this reason that many PSU banks are refusing to give loan against GH apartments.”

        The cash flow calculations clearly show that the builder gets his investment back within months and corners project profit without even laying a brick. “I have never seen such a business model before,” says another consultant. “A builder with no reputation at stake will be tempted to divert money elsewhere and try to make good for the competitive rates he had to offer due to stiff competition.”

        God forbid, if some builder uses this loophole and runs away, then at the end of the project there can be various claimants to the property, like Noida Authority, Bank (from which the developer has taken loan for the project, end user, and of curse, the bank from which the end user has taken the loan. Ask the developers and they say when the Noida Authority allots the land to them, they are asked to put security in various forms, which is sort of guarantee money equivalent to land cost. But brokers tell us the security by the builder to authority is only 5% of the value of land. Now compare 5% security with 90% outstanding!

        If you happen to look at the lease deed of a developer, you’ll be amazed to see they have to pay land cost till 2019. It would be interesting to know how the flat will be registered in buyer’s name when land cost is not paid fully. For instance, the PAN Oasis project in Sector-70 will be delivered by 2013-end and let’s suppose the developers pay till 2014 as per plan and then close shop, then who will chase the builder: the buyer or Noida Authority?
        At least, PAN buyers are safe as NTPC and few other corporates are forcing them to pay land cost before possession. But that may not be the case with all projects. We are sure buyers will not lose their flats in any case, but complete project will be strangled in legal battle and it would be very difficult to sell it, forget about appreciation. The banks will not give loan to new buyers.

        Moreover, if you notice in Noida, most real estate companies are floating new companies for every project. For example, in PAN Oasis, Amrapali has opened "Advance Infrastructure". Ajnara is launching every project with new company. This is true for several builders and tomorrow if they suffer losses, they will close down few of these companies and fight legal battles. “This seems to be an intentional loophole left by Noida Authority to mint money,” says a real estate consultant. “They want to generate huge and quick money by collecting 10% of so many group housing plots in Noida. They are not bothered about the future when litigations will start. This has never happened before anywhere like flooding of projects by numerous builders. Though a lot of brokers we talked to agreed that this has literally flooded the market with new builders, this is in turn good for endusers and investors as huge tracts of land is now available to builders on which they can build flats. “This is among one of the reasons the cost of new projects have not shot out of the roof,” says one, adding, “Remember, even if the builder had given entire money to Noida Authority, he would have done this only by taking loan from banks. All projects are started on debt. The builder could have defaulted the debt of bank as well. So if you think builder is about to run away with your money, don’t book a flat and keep your money in the bank. But do remember that even banks collapse as it happened in the US.”


        He says there’s no point worrying about the builder defaulting as once you
        take possession of your flat, it will be registered in your name. “This registration will be done by Noida Authority who will charge stamp duty of a few lakhs for this purpose only. And once the registration is done, even the chief minister cannot do anything to your flat,” he says. So even if the builder defaults, the litigation will be done between the authority and the builder. “In fact, I strongly feel this move by Noida Authority has brought down the cost of new flats in Noida by good 30 per cent.”

        But the real question is when will the possession given and when does one register the flat? The builder has to pay 100% land cost for that. We all know about DLF and Unitech and how they were once on the verge of collapse because of heavy loan burden. In fact, Unitech is still in a very bad financial crisis. Already, in Faridabad, some builders have declared themselves bankrupt. “If these small-time builders could sell only 20-30% of their flat inventory, then how they will pay the land cost?” asks a broker. “That is the reason SBI is not at all funding a single new project.”


        Noida Authority should formulate some payment plan for new projects. Buyer's installment should be linked with builder land payment plan. Builder can't take advance money for land. Now this issue is kept like black box intentionally. No builder wants to discuss this with the customer. I think that NA is very much responsible that buyer’s money is not lost. But what about the banks, who are funding these projects? What are the safeguards they are considering? Or they are also playing with public money!

        Is this a point of worry.. Comments Please !!!
        Last edited by Akash1; January 28 2011, 11:23 PM.

        Comment


        • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

          dear akash1

          a very thought provoking and scary scenario indeed !!!!
          the facts brought out by u r indeed truly possible. however, can u tie down the builder in BBA to making early payments 2 the NA as the project progresses.
          excellent NOTE
          however, the remark against doctors and army leaves a poor taste; kindly avoid the same as a number of people 4m the two professions are working and sacrificing their uth and lives 4 ur and families security and health

          regards

          sids

          Comment


          • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

            Is the BBA same for everyone who buys in the project (other than costs) or does the builder prepare it differently for different people?

            Comment


            • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

              Originally posted by Akash1 View Post
              RAM BHAROSE!
              Developers want your money right now, but on their part, they will pay land price to Noida Authority by 2019. In case they don’t, who will take the brunt? What will be the status of flat buyers, if authority terminates lease for non-payment of land cost?

              If the number of readers’ letters is any indication, a big real estate scam is in the making at Noida. However, this one doesn’t concern doctors or army personnel, but all homebuyers. So it makes us sit up and take notice. As readers of Top Floor must be aware, in all new projects in Noida launched since 2009, the developers are asking for 80-90% of total cost to be paid by the time the structure is finished. “This scheme was fine as long as the builder had paid all the land cost to authority as it happened before 2009,” writes Narain Kohli, a reader, adding, “Post-2009, they are paying only 10% to authority and land is allotted to them. As for the rest of the money that they owe to the Noida Authority, they will start paying after two years in half-yearly installments spread over five years.”

              Keeping this in mind, Kohli and other readers say that the developers should ask only 60% of the cost for civil work and internal development. “Rest 40% should be demanded when they pay the land price to the authority,” they reason. But where does it smell of a scam? Experts say though the builders are already diverting funds meant for construction, chances of fund diversion are even higher now. “In the worst case, developers may escape from the project as they have made 40-50% profit already and not paying land cost,” says a consultant. And there is no way to force them to pay land cost. “This is a big risk to all new projects of Noida,” he says. For example, the approximate cost of FSI is Rs 1,000 psf. Average sale price of the apartment is Rs 2750 psf. The builder collects at least 40% (Rs 1100 psf) from the buyer without laying a single brick on ground. So his net cash flow is Rs 1000 psf and more.

              “Imagine if the builder develops the project in one go, completes within three years, collects the money and vanishes! Now who will pay the balance land cost to Noida Authority?” asks Kohli. “What will be the status of flat buyers, if authority terminates lease for non-payment of land cost? I think people should be aware of this issue and take it up with the developers, who should be insisted upon to give some legal declaration that they will pay all the land cost when project finishes.”


              We have heard some corporate buyers like NTPC, IOCL etc., have already done it. The problem, however, remains as to what value has a legal declaration? Can it be encashed? “The fact is that Noida Authority scheme is faulty because the agreement does not have any clause to correlate the sale by builder with the payment of balance land cost to authority,” says a broker, adding, “To me this is a big loophole. Buyers and banks have a risk. It is perhaps for this reason that many PSU banks are refusing to give loan against GH apartments.”

              The cash flow calculations clearly show that the builder gets his investment back within months and corners project profit without even laying a brick. “I have never seen such a business model before,” says another consultant. “A builder with no reputation at stake will be tempted to divert money elsewhere and try to make good for the competitive rates he had to offer due to stiff competition.”

              God forbid, if some builder uses this loophole and runs away, then at the end of the project there can be various claimants to the property, like Noida Authority, Bank (from which the developer has taken loan for the project, end user, and of curse, the bank from which the end user has taken the loan. Ask the developers and they say when the Noida Authority allots the land to them, they are asked to put security in various forms, which is sort of guarantee money equivalent to land cost. But brokers tell us the security by the builder to authority is only 5% of the value of land. Now compare 5% security with 90% outstanding!

              If you happen to look at the lease deed of a developer, you’ll be amazed to see they have to pay land cost till 2019. It would be interesting to know how the flat will be registered in buyer’s name when land cost is not paid fully. For instance, the PAN Oasis project in Sector-70 will be delivered by 2013-end and let’s suppose the developers pay till 2014 as per plan and then close shop, then who will chase the builder: the buyer or Noida Authority?
              At least, PAN buyers are safe as NTPC and few other corporates are forcing them to pay land cost before possession. But that may not be the case with all projects. We are sure buyers will not lose their flats in any case, but complete project will be strangled in legal battle and it would be very difficult to sell it, forget about appreciation. The banks will not give loan to new buyers.

              Moreover, if you notice in Noida, most real estate companies are floating new companies for every project. For example, in PAN Oasis, Amrapali has opened "Advance Infrastructure". Ajnara is launching every project with new company. This is true for several builders and tomorrow if they suffer losses, they will close down few of these companies and fight legal battles. “This seems to be an intentional loophole left by Noida Authority to mint money,” says a real estate consultant. “They want to generate huge and quick money by collecting 10% of so many group housing plots in Noida. They are not bothered about the future when litigations will start. This has never happened before anywhere like flooding of projects by numerous builders. Though a lot of brokers we talked to agreed that this has literally flooded the market with new builders, this is in turn good for endusers and investors as huge tracts of land is now available to builders on which they can build flats. “This is among one of the reasons the cost of new projects have not shot out of the roof,” says one, adding, “Remember, even if the builder had given entire money to Noida Authority, he would have done this only by taking loan from banks. All projects are started on debt. The builder could have defaulted the debt of bank as well. So if you think builder is about to run away with your money, don’t book a flat and keep your money in the bank. But do remember that even banks collapse as it happened in the US.”


              He says there’s no point worrying about the builder defaulting as once you
              take possession of your flat, it will be registered in your name. “This registration will be done by Noida Authority who will charge stamp duty of a few lakhs for this purpose only. And once the registration is done, even the chief minister cannot do anything to your flat,” he says. So even if the builder defaults, the litigation will be done between the authority and the builder. “In fact, I strongly feel this move by Noida Authority has brought down the cost of new flats in Noida by good 30 per cent.”

              But the real question is when will the possession given and when does one register the flat? The builder has to pay 100% land cost for that. We all know about DLF and Unitech and how they were once on the verge of collapse because of heavy loan burden. In fact, Unitech is still in a very bad financial crisis. Already, in Faridabad, some builders have declared themselves bankrupt. “If these small-time builders could sell only 20-30% of their flat inventory, then how they will pay the land cost?” asks a broker. “That is the reason SBI is not at all funding a single new project.”


              Noida Authority should formulate some payment plan for new projects. Buyer's installment should be linked with builder land payment plan. Builder can't take advance money for land. Now this issue is kept like black box intentionally. No builder wants to discuss this with the customer. I think that NA is very much responsible that buyer’s money is not lost. But what about the banks, who are funding these projects? What are the safeguards they are considering? Or they are also playing with public money!

              Is this a point of worry.. Comments Please !!!

              This indeed is a very serious issue and all ongoing projects are affected by it.

              It is really scary to even imagine the consequences of default by builders and NA taking over and exercising its rights under the lease deed.

              I think the matter serious enough to deserve a dedicated thread with contributions from seniors and experts.

              I remember some time back we briefly discussed this matter in the following thread;

              http://www.indianrealestateforum.com...ied-12153.html

              May be we need to discuss this there to deserve full attention and justice.

              I have not seen a lease deed between NA and builder for lease of land. But some one tells me that this lease agreement has a condition that in case of default in payment of installments/ interest by the builder, the Authority would have the right to recover the default amount from the flat allottees. Is it true? If any one has a copy of such lease deed, please post it here so that we can analyze the consequences of default.

              The BBA / Flat Allotment Letter issued by the builder to flat buyers has a condition that "all the terms & conditions of the lease agreement signed between NA & the builder will be binding on the flat buyer". This means buyer's unconditional acceptance of some terms & conditions which he is unlikely to have gone through.

              Thanks Akash1...........!!!

              Comment


              • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

                Thanks Basant,

                Few days back Ram Kumar posted the Helios papers, he must have the lease deed with NA also.

                Ram Kumar: can you please post the pages of lease deed where the conditions specified for payment plan to NA ?

                Thanks
                Akash

                Comment


                • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

                  Sunshine helios needs some sunshine..............
                  Thanks

                  Comment


                  • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

                    In this case every project needs sunshine ;-)

                    Originally posted by cookie View Post
                    Sunshine helios needs some sunshine..............

                    Comment


                    • Re : Helios by Sunshine Developers in Sector 78, Noida

                      Originally posted by Akash1 View Post
                      In this case every project needs sunshine ;-)
                      Sahi hai bhai, apna kuch nahi lagaya aur public ke paise se maje kar rahe hai ye

                      baad mai public jaane aur sarkaar builders ko koi farak nahi padta, jab jameen he unki nahi to hawa mai ghar bech rahe hai ye sab

                      lage raho, lage raho

                      Comment

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