Vested interests in Noida RE & related IREF forums - Must Read for RE Newbies !!!
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varshar
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- A very comprehensive frauds by bank was written by Ravibhai in Bangalore section. Here it is
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/bangalore-real-estate/23508-banks-loans-kickbacks-the-myth-about-clean-property-papers?t=25559CommentQuote2Flag - True information. Unfortunately, a reasonable chunk of the posts on these forums reek of manipulation. Sorry to be blunt, but those who are genuine know who they are :)CommentQuote0Flag
- This Should be a Sticky.CommentQuote1Flag
- Vested interests in Noida RE & related IREF forums - Must Read for RE Newbies !!!
(Thread First Post Continued...)
A. Banks
...
3. Will pressurize you to give full loan application amount upfront i.e. before approval. In case there is a problem with paperwork, you'll be left chasing them instead of the other way around. Always hold back part payment until the loan is fully sanctioned.
4. Will surreptitously increase your loan tenure instead of EMI amount when interest rates increase thus adding to your total interest outflow. Always read even the blandest of bank letters carefully and try to stretch to top-up EMI's instead of loan tenure.
B. Brokers
...
6. Will pressurize you to take something called 'credit-notes' instead of a direct discount from builder on booking. This is a pseudo-promise and most brokers will vanish with cell-phone switched off etc. when you go chasing them for the 'credit-note'. Always insist on direct / cash discounts.
7. Will often form cartels e.g. Greater Noida region for plots or Indirapuram/Noida region for specific projects and mislead you based on if you're a buyer (its always boom-time) or seller (its always recession-time). Always do 'price-discovery' by using a friend / relative to first pose as the opposite i.e buyer if you're selling etc. - to find out actual price ranges in the market before you start negotiations.
8. ...to be continued
C. Builders
...
5. Will often give you fake carpet-area (actual livable space) versus super-area calculations and ratios. At the very least, do your own calculations based on the flat layouts. This is unfortunately still imperfect since even the published layouts can be misleading (e.g. including wall thickness etc) but it's better than relying blindly on what the builder talls you.
6. Will always show you glitzy brochures with proposed amenities (club, pool, etc) without disclosing club-size, pool-length, number of tennis courts etc. Always calculate the ratio of potential residents to common facilities and compare with existing RTM projects in the region to get an idea of how much premium that project is worth.
7. Will often construct floor after floor to lure newer buyers for that and other projects of the same builder. One common way to find out the real 'niyat' of the builder is to check if brick-work is happening in parallel with laying of slabs (or is at worst 2-3 floors behind). This is a rough guide that you will get possession instead of an empty 'dhancha' and extended delays in project completion (plumbing, electrical work, actual delivery etc.) after 95% of your CLP is in the builders pocket.
8. ...to be continued
BTW, I've requested this thread to be made into a sticky but IGRM doesn't seem interested... request other members to write to IGRM directly.
Sadly, there are so many ways Bankers/Brokers/Builders scam buyers I doubt if I'll ever run out of points to update :-|
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-vCommentQuote7Flag - A must read item. Thank you dear VarsharCommentQuote0Flag
- Originally Posted by varshar(Thread First Post Continued...)
A. Banks
...
3. Will pressurize you to give full loan application amount upfront i.e. before approval. In case there is a problem with paperwork, you'll be left chasing them instead of the other way around. Always hold back part payment until the loan is fully sanctioned.
4. Will surreptitously increase your loan tenure instead of EMI amount when interest rates increase thus adding to your total interest outflow. Always read even the blandest of bank letters carefully and try to stretch to top-up EMI's instead of loan tenure.
B. Brokers
...
6. Will pressurize you to take something called 'credit-notes' instead of a direct discount from builder on booking. This is a pseudo-promise and most brokers will vanish with cell-phone switched off etc. when you go chasing them for the 'credit-note'. Always insist on direct / cash discounts.
7. Will often form cartels e.g. Greater Noida region for plots or Indirapuram/Noida region for specific projects and mislead you based on if you're a buyer (its always boom-time) or seller (its always recession-time). Always do 'price-discovery' by using a friend / relative to first pose as the opposite i.e buyer if you're selling etc. - to find out actual price ranges in the market before you start negotiations.
8. ...to be continued
C. Builders
...
5. Will often give you fake carpet-area (actual livable space) versus super-area calculations and ratios. At the very least, do your own calculations based on the flat layouts. This is unfortunately still imperfect since even the published layouts can be misleading (e.g. including wall thickness etc) but it's better than relying blindly on what the builder talls you.
6. Will always show you glitzy brochures with proposed amenities (club, pool, etc) without disclosing club-size, pool-length, number of tennis courts etc. Always calculate the ratio of potential residents to common facilities and compare with existing RTM projects in the region to get an idea of how much premium that project is worth.
7. Will often construct floor after floor to lure newer buyers for that and other projects of the same builder. One common way to find out the real 'niyat' of the builder is to check if brick-work is happening in parallel with laying of slabs (or is at worst 2-3 floors behind). This is a rough guide that you will get possession instead of an empty 'dhancha' and extended delays in project completion (plumbing, electrical work, actual delivery etc.) after 95% of your CLP is in the builders pocket.
8. ...to be continued
BTW, I've requested this thread to be made into a sticky but IGRM doesn't seem interested. In fact as of yesterday even the 'view' count of this thread wasn't moving... at least that seems to be fixed now.
Request other members to write to IGRM directly.
Sadly, there are so many ways Bankers/Brokers/Builders scam buyers I doubt if I'll ever run out of points to update :-|
-v
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.
B.Brokers
- They inject into you a sense of urgency and put the scare of your life into you. It is now or never. They make you think that unless you buy a property now, your family will continue renting houses for life.
- They con you into believe that 'it is easy money'. Buy now and sell at 50% profit in an year. They make selling a property like selling some fast food ( despite thy themselves are unable to sell properties for years on).
- All brokers are liars. There is no exception.CommentQuote4FlagBanks:
1. Try to extract more using --> Property insurance
2. Loanassurance...CommentQuote0Flagyou guys are saying nothing new here... everybody knows about it. And few are clapping/thanking as they got the problem actually and will be aware in future. Thats the problem with US, that we alway see the problem and never seek the solution. These kind of information are posting in this forum from time to time for many years but did it stopped any person/investor to buy a flat from these frauds?
Tell me one builder/broker/project/bank which does not fall into catagories you have stated above.
Pepole like me are aam janta... who just want to live in this miser world and we also fall in one catagory... "marta kya na karta". Nothing is going to change by putting your comments/information here.
If you really want to get people aware about the issues then speak honestly. Name the culprit and I mean actually point out them with their names/address and problem you faced with them and then asked for that thread to promoted/sticky so that everyone come to know about this. People should know these frauds by their names. Creating a general awareness thread will not solve the problem.CommentQuote0FlagIf you give a name public you start public fight i think..he he he then enjoy free cinema on iref forumCommentQuote0FlagOriginally Posted by xperienceyou guys are saying nothing new here... everybody knows about it. And few are clapping/thanking as they got the problem actually and will be aware in future. Thats the problem with US, that we alway see the problem and never seek the solution. These kind of information are posting in this forum from time to time for many years but did it stopped any person/investor to buy a flat from these frauds?
Tell me one builder/broker/project/bank which does not fall into catagories you have stated above.
Pepole like me are aam janta... who just want to live in this miser world and we also fall in one catagory... "marta kya na karta". Nothing is going to change by putting your comments/information here.
If you really want to get people aware about the issues then speak honestly. Name the culprit and I mean actually point out them with their names/address and problem you faced with them and then asked for that thread to promoted/sticky so that everyone come to know about this. People should know these frauds by their names. Creating a general awareness thread will not solve the problem.
Saabji, this is not some 'sach ka saamna show' on star TV. This is a reality. We share experiences so that others may be benefited. There is no point in accusing , naming some one. It does not add any value to the discussion either.
What is important however is by voicing one's opinion, one finds support or retort to the argument thereby correct, strengthen oneself along the way.
Solutions are not instantaneous. They will take a very long time. Decades may be. But it is important that like minded people got together.CommentQuote1Flagagain you are leaving the matter on time... that time will correct everything. Time does not have sense it only has velocity. And I doubt that there will be another Gandhi in this country to make a revolt. Someone in the thread above said that be careful with the bank's term and conditions documents. My friend if you are awaring the others about this problem then point out the actual problem. Point out the person causing this problem. One Bank's T&C can not vary person to person. They will be same for each person. So if you find something odd then point it out and let other know about it.
The experience you are sharing are so common that everyone has it. Whether he is a ricksaw puller or a professional in a multi billion company.
Just answer this simple question... you were going to make a deal with some builder/broker and you have read about some serious problem with that builder/broker in this forum, won't you clarify the same from him? or ask for others for confirmation/clarification?.... you certainely had..... because this time you had some idea about the problem and it's cause.
If you are so afraid of facing/speaking the truth then please don't even spread these general awarness which are just a fraction of truth. Your general experience will not benefit anybody. Because everybody knows "smoking kills".... still people smoke....CommentQuote0FlagI have experienced over many years that Buyers actually spend more time researching and doing extensive ground research when Buying a Car...rather than when buying a property
If the Hunted wants to serve itself on a platter to the hunter...who is to be blamed
100s of Buyers visit brokers and ask them....''I have 50 lakh budget...I am NRI...MNC exec, etc etc..I want to invest in Noida as my friend suggested me....Kahaan Karun???''
Even the worst brokers are doing good business....just shows you...how the buyer is !!!!!!
Even the worst Builders are selling their projects.....why???
Its because people have a short term memory....even though they can see many stalled, incomplete or poor quality projects of same builder.....they simply forget about it....as they are offered ''Free parking''....''Rs.100 psf discount'', etc etcCommentQuote0FlagThis thread is an example of useful information rather than general awareness.
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/other-forums/legal-vastu-home-loans/home-loans-in-india/27736-important-information-for-hdfc-teaser-loan?t=29704
These kind of thread and information should be promoted/highlited in this forum which can be useful to anybody. And thats what I expect from IREF.CommentQuote1Flag(Thread Posts Continued...)
A. Banks
...
5. Will always resist passing on rate cuts to existing customers. One useful negotiation technique (especially now with RBI allowing zero-penalty prepayment from any source) is to apply for loan closure / transfer and then negotiate for a better rate on the existing balance. This works especially well around year-end / closing due to branch targets. A common banker trick is to fool you by claiming your loan is 'securitized' and they cannot do anything... this is bullshit since they have flexibility at branch level - don't accept it and if necessary go ahead and insist on loan closure / transfer.
6. Will sometimes pressurize you to accept high interest rates if you have missed a payment or two on your credit cards etc. This needs proactive measures. Order your CIBIL score (CIBIL | Credit Reports, Credit Scores and Risk Management Solutions) *before* going for a home loan so nobody can take you for a ride by playing on "fear factor". It's easy to order online and arrives instantly by email or by snail-mail in 1-2 weeks at your home address.
B. Brokers
...
8. Will always try to arrange visits to the property around 11 AM or 3-4 PM when male residents in the locality are away and also keep you away from the area where society notices are posted. Always come back later to do an independent assessment of the building / area and ask residents around regarding water situation, power backup, facility maintenance, etc. Read society notice boards carefully... often RWA disputes are splashed there in black and white for all to enjoy!
9. Will always try to take full payment of commission and / or payment to the seller when they hand over the house keys i.e. after property transfer has been registered in the local authority and you're taking possession of RTM flat. It's always good during negotiations to reserve 30-40K payment to be paid 1 month after possession handover in case unpaid electricity or society bills are unearthed later. Make sure this is written down in the ATS (Agreement To Sale).
10. ...to be continued
C. Builders
...
8. Will often have poor attitude regarding signing of BBA's (Builder-Buyer Agreement). Many people like to take risks, but especially if you're buying as an end-user instead of investor - always insist on the BBA being signed before / while you hand over the first big payment (i.e. > 1-3 lacs based on flat size/price) to the builder. This is a very important point... don't get fooled by 'provisional' allotment letters etc. The BBA gives you legal rights. Everything prior to that is just hot air.
IREF itself has several good threads on this topic (property paperwork etc):
8.1 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/other-forums/general-real-estate-discussion/3582-builder-s-tricks-in-india-i?t=4198
8.2 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/28255-games-builders-play?t=30214
8.3 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/24695-regarding-builder-buyer-agreement?t=26770
8.4 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/mumbai-real-estate/24509-cheated-by-builder?t=26521
8.5 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/10415-what-is-written-in-your-buyer-agreement?t=12798
8.6 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/gurgaon-real-estate/24243-beware-of-loopholes-justifying-delays?t=26336
One very good collection of property paperwork related posts is in the Pune forum:
8.7 https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/pune-real-estate/23239-what-all-should-a-buyer-check-before-buying-a-new-flat?t=25437
In general - one thumb rule is to always physically visit the builder and look at the property registration papers of the project itself. If the builder is not cooperative... walk away!
9. Will often book the same unit twice (or more!) during launches due to internal issues between brokers / channel partners and inadequate CRM (customer relationship management) systems. Try to deal directly with the builder, or at least (if you've booked via a broker / channel partner) call or better still visit the builder office directly to confirm from their CRM system who is the flat marked against. This might involve some charm / personal effort... but better than a bitter struggle later etc.
10. Will claim their project is 100% legally OK since some XYZ bank or NBFC is giving loans. This is never a guarantee of a project being 100% legally OK since the bank legal departments are not reliable (surprise surprise!). IREF can come in very handy here... there are many posts on land disputes / lack of NOC's from air-bases / stuck clearances on layouts from local authority etc.
11. Will claim their flat layouts are best. While tastes may differ - try to at least stay away from toilets sharing walls with kitchens (health issues due to pipe leaks).
Regarding the earlier point (C. Builder # 5) about how to calculate usable area, a good IREF thread is:
https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/9999-carpet-area-super-area-ratio-without-balconies-best-way-to-compare-layouts-comment?t=12399
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-vCommentQuote3FlagOriginally Posted by xperienceyou guys are saying nothing new here... everybody knows about it. And few are clapping/thanking as they got the problem actually and will be aware in future. Thats the problem with US, that we alway see the problem and never seek the solution. These kind of information are posting in this forum from time to time for many years but did it stopped any person/investor to buy a flat from these frauds?
Tell me one builder/broker/project/bank which does not fall into catagories you have stated above.
Pepole like me are aam janta... who just want to live in this miser world and we also fall in one catagory... "marta kya na karta". Nothing is going to change by putting your comments/information here.
If you really want to get people aware about the issues then speak honestly. Name the culprit and I mean actually point out them with their names/address and problem you faced with them and then asked for that thread to promoted/sticky so that everyone come to know about this. People should know these frauds by their names. Creating a general awareness thread will not solve the problem.
Bro, I do understand your feeling and I do appreciate your views.
But, you failed to understand the purpose of this thread. Let me explain.
All the builders/brokers, in that matter most of the people on the street are out to cheat someone, oneway or the other. No second thought about that.
How do you survive?
You LEARN their tricks and then avoid those tricks.
The purpose of this thread is to educate new members and experienced alike to know about the common tricks. ... so that atleast few can avoid those nasty events.
Regarding fighting corruptions ... everyone is not Sunny Deol or Arnold in Commando!!CommentQuote2Flag