What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by mayanknoida
    U r right dabbu ji . . If 1000 or more buyers turn up at the same time , we can pressurize jaypee. The problem is only 40 people were thr on saturday . .


    Count me in for any such future meeting to be held on weekend.....
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  • what is the use to provide flat layout in PAL then and y just increasing 10% make it 50 % loading end user kya kar sakta hai kyu bhai........
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  • Re: Jaypee Greens - Noida

    Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Pandey Sir can u pls remind me what was due. Can you post the link to get context, I will come back.

    Yes 3C has shown excellent restraint and been quite ethical in not increasing super area.

    Jaypee has not only delayed, they have been greedy in looking at 15-16% increases per recent reports.

    3C has shown a good account of ethics, customer centricity, corporate governance - while Jaypee has not displyed these qualities.

    Quality and good concept (township)/ features and clear land titles /lower FAR are some redeeming aspects.

    But all in all 3C has def come out with heads held high. (There is a lot of delay there as well for example LB has a LOT of work before project complete. LP seemed over 2+ years overall - so they are no saints either) but overall I think they have really established themselves in the relatively-good-trusted-builders-you-wouldnt-lose-sleep-over kind of builders 'safe' legue.

    Infact I saw great progress in 'Delhi 1' yesterday. That will propel them into a different legue in my mind.

    Jaypee could hv redeemed themselves but they chose not to.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2


    Thanks Dinesh bhai. I will repost the Klassic query in the Klassic page today.

    I was checking my PAL for the super area increase clause. On the floor plan chart it stated an increase from 5 to 7 percent. In the terms and conditions it just stated that there may be an increase or decrease and didn't specify by how much. Contradictory versions within the PAL can be challenged is what I understand. Even in that case they will increase. What's the legal course if any

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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  • Originally Posted by expressway16
    what is the use to provide flat layout in PAL then and y just increasing 10% make it 50 % loading end user kya kar sakta hai kyu bhai........


    Things can change if end users/investors unite and press Jaypee against doing it.. a little better propaganda and arranging investors can contribute a lot.... If there is demonstration against the builder and it gets covered by newspapers, it can have a huge effect on pressurizing the builder.
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  • Re: Jaypee Greens - Noida

    Originally Posted by dabbu73
    Count me in for any such future meeting to be held on weekend.....


    Count me too for weekend meetings. In fact as buyers here is what we should do

    Let's send individual emails to customer care asking about this and expressing our dissatisfaction. This would be conveyed to senior management and act as a pressure tactic. Imagine what some 10000 emails can do. They need to know the negative buzz this has created.
    Second, we should not wait till May for the second meeting. Should be in April. Message for Jaypee would be that we are Damn serious and you mend your ways. Agenda should only be super area increase so that they don't divert people's minds with other topics. They are good at it.
    Third, we need to look at legal course. Guess, PC delivery can determine if the matter should be taken to consumer court or civil. Our point would be the increase despite carpet area remaining same.
    Fourth, there should be some way of involving CCI as this is misuse of power by Jaypee.

    Time for everyone to gather now. We can use social media, blogs and yahoo group to pass on the message

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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  • One thing is for sure JP has been able to divert all the attention towards super area thing.In a way they will now escape questions on all the other issues....

    However this has bought all the end users together as this is a common issue.
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  • I think this super area increase is because of the late penalty that they are going to have to pay. The early investors like me (Sep 2007 according to the recent ‘SOA’ sent by jaypee) are owed heavy penalty.

    My revised Super area was 3630 (according to revised layout posted a few years ago on Jaypee website). It may get another 10-15% increase now. What I bought was 3460 in 2007 which was quickly changed as the layouts were not fixed then. So there is an increase of 170 Sq ft already a few years back and now there is this one. If we take a conservative 10% it is an increase of 363+170 = 533 or extreme change of 15% = 544.5 + 170 = 714.5.

    I bought at 5800 and therefore this will set me back 30 – 41 Lakh depending on the situation. This is a big concern to me as the penalty that I will get from jaypee IF I get it will be 10 lakh. I am going to have to pay at least 20-30Lakh more.

    I can only wonder what Dinesh bhais pain would be like with his 4 apartments. The only positive is that this phantom increase is creating a phantom profit on this new 544.5 to 714.5 Sqft (10,000-5800=4200). Since my house is for end use I will not see this but any investor would be jumping up and down.
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  • Originally Posted by Imperialnoid
    I think this super area increase is because of the late penalty that they are going to have to pay. The early investors like me (Sep 2007 according to the recent ‘SOA’ sent by jaypee) are owed heavy penalty.

    My revised Super area was 3630 (according to revised layout posted a few years ago on Jaypee website). It may get another 10-15% increase now. What I bought was 3460 in 2007 which was quickly changed as the layouts were not fixed then. So there is an increase of 170 Sq ft already a few years back and now there is this one. If we take a conservative 10% it is an increase of 363+170 = 533 or extreme change of 15% = 544.5 + 170 = 714.5.

    I bought at 5800 and therefore this will set me back 30 – 41 Lakh depending on the situation. This is a big concern to me as the penalty that I will get from jaypee IF I get it will be 10 lakh. I am going to have to pay at least 20-30Lakh more.

    I can only wonder what Dinesh bhais pain would be like with his 4 apartments. The only positive is that this phantom increase is creating a phantom profit on this new 544.5 to 714.5 Sqft (10,000-5800=4200). Since my house is for end use I will not see this but any investor would be jumping up and down.


    I don't mind the increase as long as a proportionate increase in carpet area is there. Otherwise I will have to see my options.
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  • Originally Posted by Imperialnoid
    I don't mind the increase as long as a proportionate increase in carpet are is there. Otherwise I will have to see my options.

    i will be happy to pay if they have increased carpet area , problem is that carpet area has been reduced and super area is increased .

    every PAL issues has different % mentioned that can increased .
    my old unit has 7% while in same project new units says 10-15 % .

    so its a planned robbery , how can it differ so much when you have almost base structure ready .
    so jaypee will give 10 lacs penalty for some cases as mentioned in older post but charge 30 lacs for extra area so ultimately still u pay them 20 lacs inspite of 4 years delay .
    i can bet next saturday 500 people knock their door all the calculations will be right but we are not able to do so.
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  • Originally Posted by mahoba
    so jaypee will give 10 lacs penalty for some cases as mentioned in older post but charge 30 lacs for extra area so ultimately still u pay them 20 lacs inspite of 4 years delay.


    Bingo! Delay is 2 years 3 months and counting. 3630*10*no of months

    I don't have the PAL on me but they did say the loading was 17% at the time. Then moved to 25% but I was like everyone is paying the same so I am no different and now this. Effectively it has doubled. 17% to 35% if the roomers are true.

    The SOA still shows the original area of 3460


    It is also Important to note that the salable area will increase by 544.5 to 714.5 @10,000 which will be acquired at booking amount less penalty. So it is a win win as long as the actual increase exists and is not made up. Also IF it is in line with other builders.
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  • Jaypee as usual maintains standard, be it construction( super slow) or extraction from innocent buyers ( super fast).
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  • Guys if Jaypee is actually doing it and you want to protest.....just get the final details in hand and just send emails on this hot consumer issue to all print and electronic media....I am 100% sure many will pick this up and report....

    - ZEE has a program called Pheradar
    - CNN IBN also has program on consumer rights
    - ABP News
    - India TV
    - NDTV
    - Hindustan Times and Times of India

    If you guys need any help in meeting the right people in media let me know.....I would be more than willing to help.

    Today media is more powerful than judiciary and it can impact a lot....we have seen this in last few years.

    Cheers
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  • Re: Jaypee Greens - Noida

    Originally Posted by mahoba
    i will be happy to pay if they have increased carpet area , problem is that carpet area has been reduced and super area is increased .

    every PAL issues has different % mentioned that can increased .
    my old unit has 7% while in same project new units says 10-15 % .

    so its a planned robbery , how can it differ so much when you have almost base structure ready .
    so jaypee will give 10 lacs penalty for some cases as mentioned in older post but charge 30 lacs for extra area so ultimately still u pay them 20 lacs inspite of 4 years delay .
    i can bet next saturday 500 people knock their door all the calculations will be right but we are not able to do so.


    Was your old PAL for Klassic by any chance? Even my PAL states 5 to 7 percent increase for Klassic.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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  • FOUND SOMETHING VERY INFORMATIVE....MUST READ BY ALL

    How is saleable area calculated? What is super builtup area?
    You have come to a very important page of www.nripro.com. There are two main reasons why it is absolutely important for buyers to understand areas and methods used to calculate saleable areas: (a) Different interpretations of areas and different methods used for calculation of saleable area can have more than 20% variation in total price tag and (b) Actual area that you get directly depends on how saleable area is calculated.

    After you are done reading this page, we strongly recommend you read another related page at this link on our website that shows actual examples of typical construction cost in Pune, and how much money builders make.

    Carpet Area: Area between the walls. Carpet area must have permanent roof (slab) over it, at normal height. Owner must get exclusive rights to use and resell the carpet area. Carpet area is calculated by multiplying dimension of room, i.e. length x width. Total carpet area is calculated by adding carpet areas of all rooms. Generally, in addition to all the rooms, varandas, passages, area inside the main door (if not included in living room dimension), balconies are included in carpet area. FSI is applicable to carpet area. Depending upon builder practice, carpet area may be 50% to 70% of of saleable area. It is always good to find ratio of carpet area to the saleable area, higher the ratio, better it is. This is just to give you idea of what you actually can use, in practice it is in interest of the buyers to find out what is carpet area and then apply loading factor on it (and not do the other way, i.e. should not arrive at carpet by applying loading factor to saleable area.

    The example below will illustrate trick used by builders/developers, when they say you can find carpet area by applying loading factor on the saleable area.
    Saleable Area: 1200 sq ft
    Loading Factor: 25% (or 1.25)

    Wrong Method (favours seller):
    Carpet Area: 1200 x (100-25)% = 1200 x 75% = 900 sq ft
    If you apply 1.25 or 25% loading, saleable area should be 900 sq ft + 900 x 25% = 1125 sq ft
    As you can see under this method builder is charging you for 1200 - 1125 = 75 sq ft more

    Right Method (favours buyer):
    Find carpet area first by measuring actual dimensions, and then apply loading factor
    Saleable area = 900 sq ft + 900 x 25% = 1125 sq ft

    Terrace: Open area without roof, attached to the main unit that buyer gets exclusive rights to use and resell (with the main unit). Open areas with slab at least double the height of the floor are also considered terrace area. FSI is not applicable to terrace areas.

    Balcony: Open area with roof (slab at floor height), attached to the main unit that buyer has exclusive rights to use and resell (with the main unit). Generally balcony area is added to total carpet area. FSI is applicable to balconies.

    Dry terrace or dry balcony: Area meant to dry clothes that buyer has exclusive rights to use and resell (with main unit). If it has roof (slab) at normal height, it should be treated as balcony. If it does not have roof (slab) at normal height, it should be treated as terrace.

    Builtup Area: Carpet Area + area occupied by walls, doors of the unit. Generally builtup area is not calculated separately, it is included into the loading factor.

    Loading factor or loading or load: Loading factor is a number used for purpose of arriving at saleable area. It is used to add constructed space not exclusively allocated to the buyer. Such area generally includes shared areas such as lift/elevator area, staircases, clubhouse, gymnasium, amenities area, etc. Loading factor 1.25 indicates that developer/builder is applying 25% on the carpet area. Some builders, in addition to carpet area, include terrace and balcony areas while applying the loading factor. If the project does not have lot of amenities, the loading factor should be small. In most cases loading factor of 1.3 is more than sufficient. Loading factor also includes parking space (irrespective of it is covered, open, stilt, sold separately or not).

    Superbuiltup Area: Carpet area + terrace + balconies + areas occupied by walls + area occupied by common/shared construction (e.g. lift, stairs, club house, etc). Generally builders use loading factor on carpet area to arrive at superbuiltup area. For example, if carpet area is 500, and loading factor is 1.3, then superbuiltup area is 500 x 1.5 = 750.

    Usable Area: This is relatively new term. Technically there is no difference between Usable Area and Superbuiltup Area. Some builders use this term to justify higher loading factor, typically in Mumbai where land cost is extremely high.

    Saleable Area: Generally superbuiltup area is saleable area.

    FSI: Floor Space Index. This is ratio of land to carpet area. Generally it is 1 for residential plots (much less for agricultural land) For example, if FSI is 1, and land area is 3000 sq ft, then total carpet area on that land cannot exceed 3000 x 1 = 3000 sq ft. It should be noted that FSI is not applicable to terraces, balconies. Also, this definition is provided for your information, enforcement of FSI is taken care of by local authorities, and buyer should not worry about it (unless there are allegations against the builder of misusing FSI).

    Methods used to calculate saleable area
    Builders apply different models to arrive at saleable area. The methods used by builder can result into as high as 20% to 25% increase in the effective rate.

    Summary
    a) Bigger saleable area does not mean bigger carpet area
    b) Lower rate does not mean good deal because it can result into higher effective rate because of loading factor, and the way terraces are charged (at 50% or 100% or at some other %), and if loading factor is applied on top of terraces
    c) Method used by builder can cause a big swing in the total price as demonstrated in the example above
    d) Lower loading % does not necessarily mean it is better deal, one needs to look into how it is applied on terraces, gardens and other areas that are not included in FSI
    e) Per square foot rate is meaningless and misleading if not looked in light of the other factors that influence saleable area

    Please click on the link below for details calculations:

    How is saleable area calculated? What is super builtup area? | Pune Property Management
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  • I have posted the question to the customer care guy for my project inquiring about the new super area. I got a reply stating WHY increase happens but he did not mention the updated area stating that that would be SHARED at the possession time.
    So, now I have asked him as to what did Mr Ajit Kumar SHARE with us on the 9th of March then and have copied the picture of the chart on the email.
    Now, waiting for his reply as I am curious to see what the response would be. At least, HOPEFULLY, I get some clarification before I look at legal options.
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