What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • JP has defaulted on its fixed deposits.

    News flash on business channel just now
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  • seems JP is screwed big time.
    Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    JP has defaulted on its fixed deposits.

    News flash on business channel just now
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  • Jaypee is now a sinking ship.
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  • Statement from JP on this. I think cash flow is a big concern until atleast some money comes from the JSW deal. They just need to keep selling without ego on high pricing:

    Jaiprakash Associates Limited has vide its letter inter-alia stated,"Keeping in view the provisions of the new Companies Act, we have stopped accepting fresh deposits wef 1.4.2014. The Company has been honouring its obligations to repay the FDs as and when they became due. Minor delays, if any, should not be construed otherwise by any of the investors. The Company has maintained its creditworthiness with all its lenders and investors and is committed to do so in future as well. We are issuing the above clarification in public interest and in response to a ticker that we understand was on air on one of the TV channels on 15.12.2014."
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  • Guys,

    When will wishtown become fully habited with all amenities? Can we see it fully ready by 2017?

    Thanks
    V
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  • 2017 is very unlikely now. It all depends on how much money Jaypee is able to pump in and at what speed.

    At this moment they are facing obvious issues in their cash flow and cash generation abilities.

    If they work like 2010-2013 - WT could be 90% ready with all amenities in 2017-2018. If they work like they did in 2014 the same can only be achieved by 2020-2022.

    They just need to keep selling and cutting on expenses.

    Yesterday I got a christmas event invite. Which is exessive at the moment one feels
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    2017 is very unlikely now. It all depends on how much money Jaypee is able to pump in and at what speed.

    At this moment they are facing obvious issues in their cash flow and cash generation abilities.

    If they work like 2010-2013 - WT could be 90% ready with all amenities in 2017-2018. If they work like they did in 2014 the same can only be achieved by 2020-2022.

    They just need to keep selling and cutting on expenses.

    Yesterday I got a christmas event invite. Which is exessive at the moment one feels


    I highly doubt JP surviving till 2017-2018 (forget about 2020-2022) with this state of affairs ...
    most of investors and end users are trapped - they can't do anything now .... I have CLP plan and i have not paid them for last couple of years .... Every person who is dealing with JP going to be super critical and extra-cautious ... this does not bode well ... credit won't be coming easy for JP ... they are another Kingfishdr in making .... They have not been able to dispose off their assets, lately. Only hope is that interest rate cycle turns quickly and provide some breathing space to JP. Even if, JP comes back ... no investor or end user going to be the winner.
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  • Yes bro - but I do think assets hold they key. Unlike kingfisher jaypee has a HUGE number of assets...a number of them liquid. I was doing a small research into this. Will share with group when done for feedback. Everything depends on a few things:

    - Interest rates - huge point. We are at 0 pct inflation (even if temporary because of fuel cool off) - just no point in keep rates this high.

    - ego - right balance between asset pricing for sales vs the interest outflow you will continue and the lack of cash flow and hence bad name you will earn. A solid base of a small company growing organically is much better than a large conglomerate which is debt ridden

    - business focus - its all about core competance and identifying what you are good at - all these F1s and hospitals etc are nothing but misadventures. Grow vertically and not horizontally
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Yes bro - but I do think assets hold they key. Unlike kingfisher jaypee has a HUGE number of assets...a number of them liquid. I was doing a small research into this. Will share with group when done for feedback. Everything depends on a few things:

    - Interest rates - huge point. We are at 0 pct inflation (even if temporary because of fuel cool off) - just no point in keep rates this high.

    - ego - right balance between asset pricing for sales vs the interest outflow you will continue and the lack of cash flow and hence bad name you will earn. A solid base of a small company growing organically is much better than a large conglomerate which is debt ridden

    - business focus - its all about core competance and identifying what you are good at - all these F1s and hospitals etc are nothing but misadventures. Grow vertically and not horizontally

    As u r analysing their asset base

    May u give a rough estimate of assets debt ratio

    Do assets outweigh debt even by a rupee

    If u may hv any idea pls
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  • I was with BOP management for a long time and still am very cordial with top management there.

    Jaypee is in a Huge MESS....When i wrote a thread.abt it....members said "dont create panic"

    i will remind everyone....that like there is a time to enter....there is a time to exit

    being emotional abt real estate is the biggest blunder

    one can do a phd abt jaypee but it doesnt matter as you are not sitting in board of directors

    exit jaypee and reinvest in safe investment of ur choice and come back when jaypee is ready....the oversupply will ensure prices will not shoot through the roof in a day

    noida investment is total waste now......every project addded is a nail in coffin..

    land parcels will keep on coming.....sez are being converted..recreational land is being converted

    exit...and come later....if u r so much interested in naveda

    Jaypee is a huge project and giving possession of few parts of it doesnt make it liveable...

    sewage, water, etc all to be handled by jaypee

    Jaypee even if does excellent progress from now....will be able to make wishtown liveable by 2020

    at its usual pace....2025

    at present pace......probably.never

    dont.be surprised if it sells even partially constructed projects to other.builders...

    also expect HIGH.maintenance charges for SURE....for any project which will begiven possession
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  • Bas apki hi kami rah gayee thi zohaib bhai..apne puri kar di..Thanks for your positive attitude and comments..
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  • Originally Posted by dhinkachika
    As u r analysing their asset base

    May u give a rough estimate of assets debt ratio

    Do assets outweigh debt even by a rupee

    If u may hv any idea pls


    Hi Bro - its a long exercise - this is what I've been able to get (only listed the assets so far)

    Next is putting a sale value against each. Note its not as simple as assets outweight debt. Money is also raised through operations which goes in servicing and reducing debt - but operations may also put in losses. It has to also do with liquidity of an asset (i.e. buyers available or not) - it further has to do with interest rate scenario - a good reduction can really save JPs ass.

    NOTE PLEASE - I am not trying to justify anything, its an internal exercise that I am doing for myself - please dont make any decision using this as any base

    REAL ESTATE TOWNSHIPS
    Wish-Town (pending)
    Aman (pending)
    Greater Noida (pending)
    Sports City (JPSI) (most)
    YEW (Jaganpur) (most)
    YEW (Mirzapur) (most)
    Tappal (all)
    Agra(most)


    OTHER ASSETS SPORTS etc
    F1 track
    GC greater noida
    main club greater noida (boomerang)
    Sports club greater noida (atlantis)
    GC noida
    GC Noida
    main club noida (boomerang)
    main JP office sector 128
    Jaypee cricket stadium (15% done)
    jaypee punjab warriors ownership (IHL)


    eWays
    complete YEW (BOT)
    himalyan eWay (BOT)

    Healthcare
    sector 128 hospital
    128 land for hospital expansion

    hospitality
    Jaypee Vasant Continental
    Jaypee Siddharth
    Jaypee Palace Agra
    Jaypee Greens Golf and Spa
    Jaypee Manor Mussourie
    Jaypee Delcourt Greater Noida

    education including underlying RE
    Jaypee hotel training center Agra
    Jaypee schools (34 schools)
    regular colleges (2)
    University (3) - primary in sector 62/128, himachal, guna, anupshahr, rewa etc

    Fertilizer
    jaypee fertilizer (duncans kanpur)

    IT
    JIL IT (company and 4 offices)

    POWER
    Hydropower - Baspa (assume not sold just for time being)
    HP - Vishnuprayag
    HP - Karcham Wangtoo

    Thermal - Bina (1 and 2)
    Thermal - Nigrie
    Thermal - Bara (1 and 2)

    Jaypee Power grid (214 km long)

    CEMENT
    Jaypee Cement (29 MTPA current capacity)

    Actual companies besides hard assets - I don’t know if we can add these as assets
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  • More than debt, it is point of company intentions.
    Today almost every real estate company is in huge debt. Some are relatively higher.
    As of now, it looks as if Jaypee is trying to put their house in order and liquidating the assets, in area wherein they probably dont want to concentrate their future business, and using the funds either to revive current / futurisitc businesses "or" repay the debt as much possible.
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Hi Bro - its a long exercise - this is what I've been able to get (only listed the assets so far)

    Next is putting a sale value against each. Note its not as simple as assets outweight debt. Money is also raised through operations which goes in servicing and reducing debt - but operations may also put in losses. It has to also do with liquidity of an asset (i.e. buyers available or not) - it further has to do with interest rate scenario - a good reduction can really save JPs ass.

    NOTE PLEASE - I am not trying to justify anything, its an internal exercise that I am doing for myself - please dont make any decision using this as any base

    REAL ESTATE TOWNSHIPS
    Wish-Town (pending)
    Aman (pending)
    Greater Noida (pending)
    Sports City (JPSI) (most)
    YEW (Jaganpur) (most)
    YEW (Mirzapur) (most)
    Tappal (all)
    Agra(most)


    OTHER ASSETS SPORTS etc
    F1 track
    GC greater noida
    main club greater noida (boomerang)
    Sports club greater noida (atlantis)
    GC noida
    GC Noida
    main club noida (boomerang)
    main JP office sector 128
    Jaypee cricket stadium (15% done)
    jaypee punjab warriors ownership (IHL)


    eWays
    complete YEW (BOT)
    himalyan eWay (BOT)

    Healthcare
    sector 128 hospital
    128 land for hospital expansion

    hospitality
    Jaypee Vasant Continental
    Jaypee Siddharth
    Jaypee Palace Agra
    Jaypee Greens Golf and Spa
    Jaypee Manor Mussourie
    Jaypee Delcourt Greater Noida

    education including underlying RE
    Jaypee hotel training center Agra
    Jaypee schools (34 schools)
    regular colleges (2)
    University (3) - primary in sector 62/128, himachal, guna, anupshahr, rewa etc

    Fertilizer
    jaypee fertilizer (duncans kanpur)

    IT
    JIL IT (company and 4 offices)

    POWER
    Hydropower - Baspa (assume not sold just for time being)
    HP - Vishnuprayag
    HP - Karcham Wangtoo

    Thermal - Bina (1 and 2)
    Thermal - Nigrie
    Thermal - Bara (1 and 2)

    Jaypee Power grid (214 km long)

    CEMENT
    Jaypee Cement (29 MTPA current capacity)

    Actual companies besides hard assets - I don’t know if we can add these as assets

    Thnx for d compilation
    But d cardinal question is "is it enuf"
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  • Originally Posted by dhinkachika
    Thnx for d compilation
    But d cardinal question is "is it enuf"


    Total assets will be 2-3 times of the total debt.
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