What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by vikaschopra
    Hi Abhinav, I agree that no one can predict future. The factors you have stated makes lot of sense and infact to some extent I prefer Noida infrastructure as compared to Gurgaon region.
    But one major factor that differs in case of yamunaexpressway versus Gurgaon - AIRPORT is missing.


    who would have thought that navi mumbai was going to have its separate airport 20 years ago?
    jewar airport is in the cold bag but can anyone gaurantee what the future holds?
    even if delhi airport is not running on its full potentinal, even if there is a law that not two airports can not be built in 150 km radius who knows if these laws can not have any amendment in the future? If the situation/demand/need arises, the gov will be forced to bring any amendments/changes in the current laws and cater to the growing needs of the people.
    Even if no airport comes to noida/greaternoida/jewar etc etc.
    do not forget that their is a plan to extend barapullah to airport( phase 3 they are calling it/check times of india/ studies are undergoing at the moment) and naveda-bimaru-babus are not studying that, sophisticated english speaking handosme delhi babus/healthy and fair skinned like soneea/rahool gandi(hahaha...) are researching on it.
    This will bring noida at a closer distance to the current airport.

    Then what would you say to the developers who are banking on commercial developments in the deeper pockets of gurgaon far far away from the airport.
    yes , airport does make a difference , but no airport does not necessarily bring any kind of doom.
    Why is adobe constructing its office near wishtown if there is no airport? why decathlon came to noida if there is no airport? If i do research on this, i can bring the names of all the companies who came to noida even after cancellation of jewar airport.
    Why even after cancellation of jewar airport?? why?
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  • Originally Posted by vikaschopra
    Hi Abhinav, I agree that no one can predict future. The factors you have stated makes lot of sense and infact to some extent I prefer Noida infrastructure as compared to Gurgaon region.
    But one major factor that differs in case of yamunaexpressway versus Gurgaon - AIRPORT is missing.


    no ,expert brokers on iref predict future better than these industrialists / it companies who are building their infrastructure on this belt.
    may be we should go and tell them to stop construction, may be they do not know that their is no airport coming and hence will be no growth.
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  • By the way, I have been observing a lot of workers in augusta homes, watching from my balcony.
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  • :) today I saw 3 concrete mixture trucks going inside Kensington apartment site
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  • Originally Posted by abhinav_2325
    Buy the way, I have been observing a lot of workers in augusta homes, watching from my balcony.

    Bro jab biscuit namkeen lene utro to 1 nazar kristal court pe maar lena
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  • Guys this is a bit of insight into my decision making process and how I finally decided to get into JP WT. Nothing really worthwhile but I had some time on a flight with nothing to do, so…

    I’ve been meaning to write a bit of an account of my decision to get into JP – and I think with recent good news shared by Abhinav on faster progress of WT and good news on JP asset sales and actual confidence that my apartment is literally a few months away (they have confirmed Jan’15 – but I think March – April they should definitely announce possession) - probably a good time to share

    Now I am not gloating, but I am extremely happy about it. Getting into JP was the first major decision I took for the family and there was always this underlying worry that I had not done anything wrong.

    I’ll share this account of late 2010 when we had to buy apartment(s) – for my family (plots were out – we already have a plot and we should be exiting from that very shortly) – the main reason was security and lock-ability and some inherent benefits only gated communities can give.

    Right, as an Architect, Interior Designer and Project Manager – I believe that I have very good skills to firstly draw a good selection criteria and then using that criteria, arrive at a final selection.
    With that in mind, I clearly remember the following criteria I setup to select a project – this is definitely not an exhaustive list but to me – a good list. The project should:

    - Be in my budget
    - Have a great floor plan, with large rooms, openness, sun
    - Have excellent construction
    - Have good fresh views
    - Have good greenery
    - Low density
    - Low flat to lift ratio
    - High speed lift
    - A separate service elevator
    - Good security
    - A good social club nearby
    - Absolutely secure 3 car parking space
    - Golf living was a good to have but not must have (it helps for sure if you are a golfer like I am)

    Internal specs were not important as I would do up the house by myself – no builder could give what I wanted as an expression of my self

    Anyhow – we started with a top-down approach – deciding first on location. Easily Gurgaon and Noida stood out for various reasons. Gurgaon was quickly dropped as most things in Gurgaon had already become quite expensive and space was something I was not willing to compromise on:

    Noida took up the mantle quite easily – most of relatives also live here so it made the decision really easy.

    Within Noida – we explored all the regions where apartments were coming up – 5x, 7x, 10x, eWay etc. 5x was quite good but it lay on the same main road which was going to get a huge amount of infra stretch via 7x, 10x etc.

    It became very clear, very quickly that eWay was the place to go to – anyone with limited Urban Design and Planning sense or training will attest to that. Besides 7x,10x etc was a very high density, MIG setup that I did not aspire to

    I still maintain that eWay is the best Urban centre in all of NCR (in this budget and in many respects is the best period). Unlike GN etc – you have commercial spaces abutting the eWay and residences behind – which is a great mixed mode planning that one needs in a flourishing urban center. Besides the sheer width of the road and separate slip and sector roads, would easily manage the traffic growth

    Only concern is the number of underpasses and connectivity to Delhi and things should move in the right direction on all accounts
    Now with the area finalised and with my criteria in hand, we looked at a number of projects:

    - Jaypee projects (Imperial, Kalypso, Knight, PC, PH)
    - UGCC
    - 3C L300/LB espacia
    - ATS Village/OH
    - Eldeco Utopia

    The benchmark at that time was, and still is, ATS Village – we all were in love with ATS V – manicured greens, great clubhouse, nice gentry, mid density etc – but it was simply out of budget. And further we would have needed to pay everything upfront which I couldn’t do at that time and we would have had to sell an asset or two which we didn’t want to. So ATS V was discounted
    ATS OH – I simply saw the site plan and rejected it – while price was ok at that time – still has given pretty good returns but it wasn’t what I was looking for. I picked up then and I guarantee you now – people in ATS OH will FEEL the higher density sooner or later. There just isn’t enough greenery, premium-ness etc and enough boxes in my list were just not ticked to give this another look. Yes the 2900 sq ft plan was good with less loading. Apparently now ATS has massively bumped up the loading which is not nice.
    LB Espacia – I remember reading at that time – 15000 flats in 40 acres for LB – and I thought to my self – this is TOO MUCH. I had also heard of some 40-50000 flats of JP across 1162 acres. This would have made LB nearly 10 TIMES as dense as WT. Also the site plan was very uninspiring – while budget was good at that time – I didn’t take much time to knock this off my list. But I will tell you – at that time, there was SO MUCH propaganda around 3C that it was very hard to ignore it
    3C L300 – again this was just launched at that time although pamphlets were available. There was this massive hype – 100 sold in 6 hours and launch price was 4500 or so and it definitely required another look. I’ll be honest here and say that Had it not been for a JP property, I would have bought in 3C L300. While a number of boxes were ticked – large sized units, good pricing, good specs – but really the site plan was a little off – they should have done a large central green which gave some premium-ness and openness to the project. There is a green but one feels it is far too small. Currently a number of towers will be looking straight into other balconies – be it L300 towers or neighbouring towers and that again put me off. One look at the plan and one feels that the builder has tried to get all juice out of the land. It might still be a great project but it was the closest I got to a non-Jaypee project at that time
    Eldeco Olympia – I also had a look at the Utopia, Klasse and Olympia projects – Eldeco was much more affordable than ATS and also had a reasonable reputation – the floor plan of Olympia was also nice and a good view outside. But inside there were 2 things wrong – firstly after looking at ATS V – the maintenance looked distinctly second or third grade and secondly if you looked at the project – there was virtually no green space – which was important to me. So this was off. Let me tell you we don’t talk much about Eldeco on IREF – but they delivered Olympia in SUPER QUICK time. I ALMOST bought their studio apartment and I sort of regret that I didn’t
    Omaxe – Somehow the forest and forest spa projects – although they had great elevations – somehow had this word in the market that they were close to an STP and it smells – now I admit I didn’t do any first hand research on this at the time so did not consider this
    UGCC – what do you say – the sample flats were SUPERB – we immediately wanted to buy Amber. But then there was always the debacle on Grande quite fresh at the time and if I’m not mistaken Uninor was making news for the wrong reasons – so talking to some friends we were dissuaded out of the UGCC project. I would like to admit – that on paper, fundamentally, if there is any project which is better than Jaypee Greens – it is UGCC. But there was a lot of uncertainty then and there is equal uncertainty now and I think I am quite happy in retrospect that I did not give into temptation. One of the crucial things is – by now Jaypee has sold off and is actively constructing most of WT but Unitech is only constructing on 3 of the 7-8 sub-parcels it has. There is also no news of it selling off these prime sub-parcels to Tata etc which is bound to prop the whole project up. Sadly the state here has gone from bad to worse. Currently Amber has no buyers at even 5500 and even 5k prices are being talked off. Sad state of affairs in potentially the best project of Noida
    Jaypee Projects – now as we saw these more and more we liked what we saw. The critical thing is one should visit Jaypee GN and then even if one is told that WT will be 70% of that – one will be elated. That is again in just another league – NOTHING in NCR (leave aside Aralias/Magnolias – but even they aren’t true GC living nestled WITHIN a GC) comes close. It is really see it to believe it. The downside was it is such a big project – will Jaypee be able to finish – what if there is another Grande in the making. But really if one goes into their family history, the number, kind and quality of projects they have delivered, there is definite re-assurance. And if you look at my boxes – I think almost ALL were ticked. But I will not lie – it was a leap of faith, especially since I also invested in Kasablanca subsequently but that is another story. Sticking to 2010 – if you have a look at my criteria:
    - Be in my budget – at that time one could do massive haggling – Imperial I got get for 6.2K, Kalypso I got at 5.3k or so, PC was at 4k, PH was at 4.5k and Knight was at 4.8k (if I remember these right) – Imperial was a little too expensive, PC seemed not to have the largish floor plan we wanted, PH – now I really had my heart set on buying the 4BHK PH IV units – but despite trying hard – they were just not available. I even got it tried from management quota but JP did not budge. Knight and Kalypso were the final two options – I had done a very detailed assessment between the 2 at that time and I had narrowly decided on Kalypso. After massive haggling – higher floor at 5.3 or so approx. is what I got Kalypso at
    - Have a great floor plan, with large rooms, openness, sun – this was a perfect tower – with a really long GC view of both 9 hole and 19 hole which was great. There was ample sunlight and one side faced the GC, the second side faced the eWay. The feeling was very very open (I visited the flat UC) – massive amount of light got in.
    - Have excellent construction – this was really impressive for Kalypso – imagine a deep piled, FULL RCC shear wall structure – done using MIVAN shuttering. Really impressive. There are no bricks used in Kalypso
    - Have good fresh views – like I said – what nice views – Golf Course on one side and the Noida eWay on the other
    - Have good greenery – as above, lot of people also don’t realise that while the Kalypso complex encases the 9 hole GC – the complex itself has MORE green area. Have a look at the site plan
    - Low density – what do you say. The 9 hole GC is 35 acres and add 15 acres for 10 towers – and main roads, parking, additional services, play-grounds all out side. It really appears as one of the LEAST dense projects in Noida
    - Low flat to lift ratio – this had 3 high speed Mitsubishi lifts (it was rumoured to be Mitsubishi then and it turned out so) for 70 or so flas
    - High speed lift – as above
    - A separate service elevator – one of these lifts was a dedicated service lift
    - Good security – Jaypee promised a 3 tier system – township level, Kalypso level and tower level. The is a separate 3000 sq ft space in the Ground floor where guests can wait, mailboxes and even guest rooms which one can lease out. While this is to be seen how good security is – but it seems ok so far. You can make out from the plan attached
    - A good social club nearby – Kalypso has its own club with swimming pool etc – but I knew I wanted to get into Boomerang after having seen the greater Noida club – genuinely posh – hope Noida turns out good also
    - Absolutely secure 3 car parking space – this was important – although at a price, we have a guaranteed spot for life and no chick chick later on
    - Golf living was a good to have but not must have (it helps for sure if you are a golfer like I am) – lets see how this actually turns out

    Anyhow – I’ve been meaning to share my story of how I got into JP and would like to say that at the end of the day – one should trust FUNDAMENTALS. The WT project does look to be the best place to live in Noida and the one thing holding it back was the delivery guarantee. Even now – I guess some doubts will always be there – but the situation is CLEARLY in Jaypee’s side to deliver.

    Like I said, I am quite happy as to how WT is coming up – there have been virtually nil deviations from the original site plan. There are water management centres, STPs, temples, club, hospital, shops – ALL coming up and in advanced stages as promised

    It is coming at a price which is still affordable and will not be for long. One should just GO to Lotus Boulevard or Sapphire or an ultra-dense project in 7x and come down to WT and notice the difference yourself. WTs least premium project even – Kosmos – has unbelievable space feeling compared to a LB and is still at 50% discount. All this will shortly change and looking at things – 2015 should genuinely see people moving into Kosmos and a lot more projects – this will change perceptions – it has to. Yes one thing is other projects in WT will go on for some more time – but honestly the distances between WT projects are the distance between LB and LP – if you buy at LB – how does it matter if work is going on in LP

    So what am I saying – believe me, I have 0 motives if people buy in WT – I have never till date TOLD anyone to buy except perhaps suggested Kosmos or Kasa once or twice. But really with this cloud over construction speed lifting off, and Jaypee’s financial health becoming that much better – and overall prices still being quite low – I think it is time (if one is sitting on sidelines or exploring projects for end use or long term investments) to have a look for yourself and with an open mind explore the openness, good quality, and all the promised township facilities coming to life. It has less than half the density of other projects. It is really the time before prices ‘might’ start moving for WT (they may well NOT move up – so take it with a spoonful of salt – it is impossible to predict these things)

    And, needless to say – I am extremely extremely unhappy with JP for delaying things – they are very very slow.
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  • Is january or march April 2015 possible for t3 kalypso possession.

    U got it from jp

    CONGRATS BRO
    HOPE AND WISH U GET UR HOME ASAP......
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  • Originally Posted by dhinkachika
    Is january or march April 2015 possible for t3 kalypso possession.

    U got it from jp

    CONGRATS BRO
    HOPE AND WISH U GET UR HOME ASAP......


    Yaya - I got letter from Jaypee - completion date Jan'15. I think by April - they can def make it happen.

    By July - 1, 2 ,3, 4, 15 and 16 thats 6 out of 15 towers they will DEFINITELY handover subject to NGT.

    If they push on others - they may well handover full project by end 2015 - but it has to be sustained effort for 7-8 months
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  • Wow

    Even conservatively kalypso 1 2 3 4 15 16 they will deliver before diwali 2015.

    Imperial 1 2 3 and kalypso other towers will b ready before 2016 diwali
    Along with all pavilion court augusta homes many townhomes all pavilion height.

    By then economy may turn around. Interest rates may hit sub 9 levels. Pay commission to huge no of Central govt employees botanical kalindi metro in full swing construction new kalindi bridge under construction

    ROSY PICTURE AHEAD.... 2017 WILL ATTRACT LOTS N LOTS IN WISHTOWN

    JP BAS DELIVER KARE....
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  • and do not forget the biggest mall in the country(mall of india) is going to open next year in noida, which will change the commercial-retail-dynamics of this zone forever.
    DLF is planning ultra modern-luxury retail separate floor plus a race track with in the mall and also the extension of the existing the great india palace mall is just icing on the cake.

    one could easily wait for a few more years until the malls of jaypee show up.
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays

    LB Espacia – I remember reading at that time – 15000 flats in 40 acres for LB – and I thought to my self – this is TOO MUCH. I had also heard of some 40-50000 flats of JP across 1162 acres. This would have made LB nearly 10 TIMES as dense as WT.

    15000 flats in LB?? Isn't this too much. I think actual figure wd be close to 3000-3200 for LB and 500-600 for Espacia.
    As such, what is the Kosmos project area and how many flats in this? I m just curious about Kosmos as in 2009 both LB and Kosmos were quoted at around 2800psf rate (Kosmos was even less 2600 psf).
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  • You could well be right about LB not hving so many flats - I just remember reading it somewhere and getting put off at the time.
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  • dinesh, by the way, can you please put some light on the existing land parcels which jaypee has with in wishtown , which are still unused.
    the part next to the land sold to mahagun is still empty, from nirman sadan to current jaypee office, the whole stretch is with jaypee, and also both sides of the other golf course and also the land where the temporary jaypee office is , is also kept for future commercial towers ( if i am right) and also the highway facing commercial belt next to kasa isles to omg(BOP). its a lot of prime land. To me, it seems that the situation asset/debt ratio of jaypee was never too bad.
    the highlight was that even during these tough real estate times, they were able to sell there lands to other developers like mahagun etc which shows it is easy to liquidate their properties
    what should be the current market price of all these land parcels with in wishtown?also , how many units will be sold in all these future projects.
    Please favor me with a detailed "signature-dinesh" analysis.
    Thanks
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Yaya - I got letter from Jaypee - completion date Jan'15. I think by April - they can def make it happen.

    By July - 1, 2 ,3, 4, 15 and 16 thats 6 out of 15 towers they will DEFINITELY handover subject to NGT.

    If they push on others - they may well handover full project by end 2015 - but it has to be sustained effort for 7-8 months


    Dinesh brother, its a wise decision to enter kalypso. I think that was the best period to enter gc side of wt. The specification, const quality really excellent. I guess most of the top notch mnc guys will shift selling their propert in sec-50/93.
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