What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Folks, please don't waste your energy.
    Whatsapp group can't be joined if you don't have an allotment letter.
    Group join to tab hoga na jab wishtown mein invested honge.
    Most of these rumour mongers are not invested in wishtown.
    Nakli wishtownite banke hai hai bhago bhago karna hai bas aur kuch nahi
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  • The worries about Jaypee's deteriorating finances is not just a hype or overrated by skeptics. If you look at their financials, there is a need of concern. I have been tracking them closely in the past couple of years and I see the change - worrying. thier share price slide (from Rs. 90 only 8 months earlier to Rs. 24 today) is perhaps a market verdict of their operational slackness and not for the fundamentals (their book value is still at Rs. 62/share). they have enough intrinsic value. But for that the RE market has to improve.

    the chances of their going bankrupt is zero. so thats not the concern. But look at the operating income which is less than half of the interest burden, how is this supposed to sustain? They have monetised assets and deleveraged, but its just not enough. time is not with them at this stage. Their cement business is under pressure of margins (they are the only biggest consumer of their own cement), RE market is down and out. So cash position is going to squeeze further which means that cost cutting on current project underway. Deliveries will have to be done, so that means that quality of the output will deteriorate and they can just palm off with whatever finishes they can manage at the least cash outgo.

    Unless they deleverage another 10-15K crore and manage to collect enough cash from deliveries after NGT embargo to fund the ongoing projects, its going to be tougher and tougher going forward,as fixed deposits maturing in March which have to repaid (and not renewed) as per an ROC order alongwith interest within next 60 days. So after may there may be nil cash left with them if they dont find more cash elsewhere by selling land, FSI or mining rights on the recently won coal blocks or something.
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  • Originally Posted by Bala2107
    The worries about Jaypee's deteriorating finances is not just a hype or overrated by skeptics. If you look at their financials, there is a need of concern. I have been tracking them closely in the past couple of years and I see the change - worrying. thier share price slide (from Rs. 90 only 8 months earlier to Rs. 24 today) is perhaps a market verdict of their operational slackness and not for the fundamentals (their book value is still at Rs. 62/share). they have enough intrinsic value. But for that the RE market has to improve.

    the chances of their going bankrupt is zero. so thats not the concern. But look at the operating income which is less than half of the interest burden, how is this supposed to sustain? They have monetised assets and deleveraged, but its just not enough. time is not with them at this stage. Their cement business is under pressure of margins (they are the only biggest consumer of their own cement), RE market is down and out. So cash position is going to squeeze further which means that cost cutting on current project underway. Deliveries will have to be done, so that means that quality of the output will deteriorate and they can just palm off with whatever finishes they can manage at the least cash outgo.

    Unless they deleverage another 10-15K crore and manage to collect enough cash from deliveries after NGT embargo to fund the ongoing projects, its going to be tougher and tougher going forward,as fixed deposits maturing in March which have to repaid (and not renewed) as per an ROC order alongwith interest within next 60 days. So after may there may be nil cash left with them if they dont find more cash elsewhere by selling land, FSI or mining rights on the recently won coal blocks or something.


    Bala this is not specific to JP only ... this is industry wide phenomenon .... During boom period 2003-2008 these companies got leveraged ... they are fixing their balance sheets ...
    But we buyers are paying the price .... but JP is not the worst of the lot when we see example of Unitech, DLF,Omaxe, Parsvnath etc .....

    WORST IS BEHIND US ....

    Economy is picking up .... Interest rate decrease cycle has started .... There is lot of optimism is in the air.... JP is about to deliver 45 towers in next 2 months ... We might see closer of NGT issue in next couple of days ....

    Infact this the best time to take exposure in RTM segment ....

    New launches are happening at the same price(+-15%) at which RTM properties are available .... courtesy inflation .... cost of construction has nearly doubled in last 5/6 years builder simply can't launch flats less than Rs 5000 psf ... (They got land at Rs 10k psm which is not available at 50k psm, today) ....new land acquisition acquisition policy has ensured that this type of land will not be available less than Rs 200k ... since circle rate is 50K.

    Supply would be huge issue in 5/6 years time frame .... since land won't be available at rates at which projects become viable ... Politicians have screwed this country big time....

    You might get Badarpur, Sangam vihar type of development in the country ... but large scale planned urban infrastructure)e.g. Noida,GN, Noida Extn) simply won't be possible.

    Hence stay put brother for another 6 months - tides have turned.
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  • Originally Posted by Shaurya29
    Bala this is not specific to JP only ... this is industry wide phenomenon .... During boom period 2003-2008 these companies got leveraged ... they are fixing their balance sheets ...
    But we buyers are paying the price .... but JP is not the worst of the lot when we see example of Unitech, DLF,Omaxe, Parsvnath etc .....

    WORST IS BEHIND US ....

    Economy is picking up .... Interest rate decrease cycle has started .... There is lot of optimism is in the air.... JP is about to deliver 45 towers in next 2 months ... We might see closer of NGT issue in next couple of days ....

    Infact this the best time to take exposure in RTM segment ....

    New launches are happening at the same price(+-15%) at which RTM properties are available .... courtesy inflation .... cost of construction has nearly doubled in last 5/6 years builder simply can't launch flats less than Rs 5000 psf ... (They got land at Rs 10k psm which is not available at 50k psm, today) ....new land acquisition acquisition policy has ensured that this type of land will not be available less than Rs 200k ... since circle rate is 50K.

    Supply would be huge issue in 5/6 years time frame .... since land won't be available at rates at which projects become viable ... Politicians have screwed this country big time....

    You might get Badarpur, Sangam vihar type of development in the country ... but large scale planned urban infrastructure)e.g. Noida,GN, Noida Extn) simply won't be possible.

    Hence stay put brother for another 6 months - tides have turned.


    ShauryaJi - personally I feel that there is about to be a lot of shake out in the entire RE sector. Builders will go out of business, some bankrupt, some jailed and a lot of them will consolidate and picked up by PE players. Only planned high-end developments will retain their premium, the rest will all compete with low-cost housing without differentiator and lack of identity.

    I think its more than interest rate movement that is needed to stimulate the industry now. Its about instilling a sense of regulation and order in the industry. Buyers have totally lost faith in the system of RE developers. I seriously doubt if there is any other industry where such fraud and unfair dealings are rampant. there is no reliability of land laws in the country. Every land acquisition is hanging fire, even land sold by development authorities are not unencumbered and later courts dissolve the allotment. This is insane amount of uncertainty and anarchy.

    Wishtown, I hope will shape up well in the next 5-6 years, provided jaypee as a developer copes up with the storm and doesnt end up a case study for MBA students for what not to do in a business.
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  • Bala - if I can - let me tell you from some personal insight - Jaypee as a group has delivered in far more difficult conditions and WT is simpler proposition which will 100% be delivered. Sports city etc is perhaps a very very long term bet. Sure - currently I cannot name sources etc so please take it with a pinch of salt.

    Keep the faith - all I can say. This is not a two bit property dealer who believes he is a hot shot builder who will be swept away.

    ps - WT land is cleared by SC - so no worries here
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  • Originally Posted by Bala2107
    ShauryaJi - personally I feel that there is about to be a lot of shake out in the entire RE sector. Builders will go out of business, some bankrupt, some jailed and a lot of them will consolidate and picked up by PE players. Only planned high-end developments will retain their premium, the rest will all compete with low-cost housing without differentiator and lack of identity.

    I think its more than interest rate movement that is needed to stimulate the industry now. Its about instilling a sense of regulation and order in the industry. Buyers have totally lost faith in the system of RE developers. I seriously doubt if there is any other industry where such fraud and unfair dealings are rampant. there is no reliability of land laws in the country. Every land acquisition is hanging fire, even land sold by development authorities are not unencumbered and later courts dissolve the allotment. This is insane amount of uncertainty and anarchy.

    Wishtown, I hope will shape up well in the next 5-6 years, provided jaypee as a developer copes up with the storm and doesnt end up a case study for MBA students for what not to do in a business.


    Bala, some very good points. I would like to add my recent experience in Real Estate.

    I have been living outside India for few years. I was in India in Nov-Jan period for two month. I have been thinking to buy a property for some time. Accordingly I have been arranging fund.

    - First, there was confusion about where and what to buy. Greater Noida was always on radar. In between, I also thought to buy apt in One Hamlet but dropped the idea. I do not have plan to be in India for few more years. It did not make sense to invest 1.4 crore for luxury of a tenant.

    - Greater Noida Swarn Nagri 200 m good location plot was 90 L minimum. Would have cost 1 Cr after everything. I had almost made my mind. But in the end decided not to. It did not make sense to invest 1 Cr (almost all my hard earned money of life so far).

    - I explored wishtown plots as well. Again, lot of fluctuations and uncertainty.

    End Result: I decided not to invest in real estate. There is lot of mess in RE. So many things I got to know that I had heard of but not experienced - Financier, tactics of brokers, cheating by builders. Just hate the games brokers play. Black Money is a big problem as well.

    If I would have invested, I won't have mental peace. Like I said it would have cost all my money or more. I did not want to be in a situation that I need money but can't get out of or making losses.

    I am exploring other investment options. Majority is going to FD. I know that is not good for returns. But prefer less returns than uncertainty and tension.
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  • Dinesh I am and end user in PC and was the first few to take possession and did stay for few months but then moved out of NCR for a while and was glad given that living in an under constructed site is a pain but it seems looking at the current pace this will continue. On quality since u claim u are invested in kalypso it is very good compared to PC and I am not comparing brand of finishings but quality of plaster on the walls
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  • Then why so glum. If you want I will personally arrange for 2-3 people who will repair the plaster/pop/putty/paint on the walls - add highlights/wallpaper etc for cheap. Probably cheaper than you think. Else try and find out yourself - lots of people out there.

    Early birds of such a massive project are bound to face teething issues. That has to be expected.
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  • Dinesh in my tower there are no issues in plaster.
    I am really surprised.
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  • Abhinav - I do remember going inside PC 4 - I saw the fittings/finishing etc - there were a couple of things I disliked - but on balance they were all sort of par for the course. I remember putting pictures also. Same thing in Kalypso - somethings were good, some could hv been better.

    Perhaps in his case the contractor did a rushed up job...if you say it is not the norm in PC...since by now you must be talking to neighbours.

    Either case - there are so many positives that poor plastering, if it is there, is a very small matter to me.
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  • The plaster quality is top notch.
    Instead of believing rumor mongers , people should come and check themselves.
    How come in thousands of flats only one is complaining about plaster?
    Dude, what tower is yours?
    Whats your real name?
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  • Healthy discussion is good.
    But please don't spam this forum.
    And that's why I am here.
    Anybody who spreads rumours, I will be the first to catch the lie since I live in wishtown.
    I will do this community service for 1 more year
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  • Originally Posted by abhinav_2325
    Healthy discussion is good.
    But please don't spam this forum.
    And that's why I am here.
    Anybody who spreads rumours, I will be the first to catch the lie since I live in wishtown.
    I will do this community service for 1 more year


    What is your obsession with Wishtown? Why do you think everyone giving not so positive feedback about JP is spreading rumors or has an agenda against? You don't work in JP Quality dept (do you?), so of course you can't certify all the apartments. It is great that everything is going well for you. I hope other also get same experience.

    JP is already in shit, one or few persons spreading some rumors won't make much or any difference. Let JP make good progress and deliver quality then there would be more like you who would refute any rumor. You are free to share your views as others are. Don't just put someone in dock if there is an opinion against project.
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  • Originally Posted by meragharonda
    What is your obsession with Wishtown? Why do you think everyone giving not so positive feedback about JP is spreading rumors or has an agenda against? You don't work in JP Quality dept (do you?), so of course you can't certify all the apartments. It is great that everything is going well for you. I hope other also get same experience.

    JP is already in shit, one or few persons spreading some rumors won't make much or any difference. Let JP make good progress and deliver quality then there would be more like you who would refute any rumor. You are free to share your views as others are. Don't just put someone in dock if there is an opinion against project.

    Dont agree with this. If someone is not telling something correctly and the other person is correcting him - you should not be telling the person doing the correction to basically keep off.

    Please dont go personal by judging an individual and attacking him by saying he works for JP etc. That is absolutely not called for.

    How can you say let people continue to spread rumours - is this what you come to IREF for?

    Abhinav - please - you are doing great work by factually calling peoples bluffs - do continue to do so.

    And meragharonda ji - have you considered he may be defending because yeh Abhinav bro ka gharonda hai!!
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  • Dinesh Ji - your arguments have a lot of reasoning behind. Thats why nobody argues or refutes your point of view.

    But the way Abhinav just dismisses all critics is not done. Plus his sarcastic remarks - tu sahi hai bhai, tu jeet gaya bhai, Everyone is a rumour monger, Jaypee is best. It doesnt go down well without proofs. He says work is at full speed 24 hours. Since he is so fond of proving everyone wrong, why cant he click some pics to do so. Would love to see photos from projects other than Kalypso, Pavillion and Imperial.

    Give Your 'Aakho Dekha Haal' please. Ek baar kensington (park and boulevard), Kristal, Kasablanca dekh ke aao. Im not talking about non golf properties and forget orchards and Kube. Aapki hawa nikal jayegi. You will be forced to swallow your pride and agree that the township is far FAR FAR away from being completed even in next 5 years
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