What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Whats the current going rate for Orchards?
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  • Originally Posted by rovingeye
    Whats the current going rate for Orchards?


    4895 psqft + additional charges. Very limited inventory available in fresh though.

    A good unit you can only find in resale with some premium.

    Basis your requirement (1700 sqft, powder room, etc. in your post earlier), it seems your eyes are set on Orchards and somewhere you have finalized it considering various factors. Just my opinion :)
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  • No Parkar - I have not finalized anywhere at all. I think I would like those things in my living space. I can even consider a 2195 sft unit in Orachards - I was looking for that size in Sharanam once upon a time when prices were 3800 psft there.

    I read your post again - you meant I have zeroed in on this project in my mind? Yeah, perhaps, given the options, this one seems pretty ok (on paper) with its specs and all.
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  • Do you think the prices will come down to 4000 psft in a year or so?
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  • Originally Posted by rovingeye
    Do you think the prices will come down to 4000 psft in a year or so?


    The orchards 2100 plan is really good, IMHO thats a smart choice 9wont this stretch your budget though) (Phantom Bro - will come on Orchards vs Kube)

    But 20% correction, in Indian RE, well, I dont think so, 20% apreciation in a year and half - more likely

    Again - you may have your reasons and they may well play out. Not saying it cant happen, it can - I am completely in the boat of the people who say Indian RE is overpriced as an asset class - IT IS. But does it mean it will correct therefore to meaningful valuations - I dont know but I dont think so
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    The orchards 2100 plan is really good, IMHO thats a smart choice 9wont this stretch your budget though) (Phantom Bro - will come on Orchards vs Kube)

    But 20% correction, in Indian RE, well, I dont think so, 20% apreciation in a year and half - more likely

    Again - you may have your reasons and they may well play out. Not saying it cant happen, it can - I am completely in the boat of the people who say Indian RE is overpriced as an asset class - IT IS. But does it mean it will correct therefore to meaningful valuations - I dont know but I dont think so


    Yes, it will stretch my budget. Since I'm a believer in land (for investment), I have sort of made up my mind to make a big ticket land purchase sometime soon - in a tier 4 town in Maharashtra. And whatever cash I have left over I wanted to put into a decent flat (with some help from a bank) which would be ready in a few years. Meanwhile, I will continue to rent. I dont know. I think i'll wait for a bit and see if prices do cool a little - given all the dire economic predictions that are flying around (and making sense too) etc.
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  • I visited JP Greater Noida a few days back to see what can be expected from Wishtown. On my way back, I also made a short stop at the Wishtown marketing office. Here is a summary of the info I gathered with some of my observations.

    The GN golf course is spread over 200 acres and is a championship level 18-hole course. The Wishtown Golf course is only 97 acres (18 holes) + 40 acres (9 holes) = 137 acres.

    The GN golf course has been designed keeping GOLF in mind, and residential apartments & villas are built on its periphery (with the exception of the 4 Sun Court towers). The Wishtown golf course has been designed with the primary intention of selling residential units.

    The membership of the JP GN golf course comes free with every purchase of real estate in JP GN. In case you sell your holding, the membership gets transferred to the new owner. In case you want to purchase a separate membership, the current rate is 21 lacs.

    JP GN has a fantastic Sports Complex. You have to see it to believe it. It’s like having a Siri-fort Sports complex next to your home with top-notch facilities. The one time life membership for a family is Rs. 5 lacs and monthly membership fee is Rs. 1200. Totally worth it and would not think twice about it.

    Nothing like the GN Sports complex is planned in Wishtown as of now, but the Wishtown marketing guy told that JP still has a lot of space (for example there is warehouse just south of the Jaypee Hospital) where a big sports complex could come up. Sounded a bit too vague for me to digest and even if it does comes up, I doubt it will be even a shade of the GN sports complex.

    The GN villas are something really exclusive. You could compare it to a South Delhi farmhouse experience without the hassle of maintaining a farmhouse. Very quite & very private. They have a handful of villas on 500 sq yd plots which are still available. JP will construct the villa and hand it over to you in 18 months as a bare shell. The outer facade is controlled by JP and you can choose between 2-3 design options. The rate is around 5.5 cr.

    You just cannot compare the GN villas with the Wishtown GC plots/villas as in Wishtown they will be surrounded by thousands of high rise apartments. I’m not sure how comfortable one will feel with a thousand eyes staring at you when one is sitting in his villa terrace.

    Wishtown GC side only (incl. Kube & Orchards and excl. KB) has about 100 towers launched with inventory of around 7000+ apartments & 450+ plots/villas. Looking at their masterplan, one can see that another 60+ towers are still to be launched. So one can easily expect that another 4000-4500 apartments will be added to the total inventory over a period of 10 years.

    The good part is that wishtown GC side is being built in a left to right fashion so it will become inhabitable in say about 18-24 months when Kalypso, Imperial, PC & PH will be handed over. But the famous GC views will have some eyesore points due to massive construction going on in the middle island for years to come.

    My takeaways:

    1. the Golf Living experience at Wishtown will not be more than 30-35% of the Greater Noida experience.

    2. The Boomerang Membership is only worth if you are a golfer. Otherwise it is better to wait for the Main Sports complex to come up (if it ever does).

    3. I would go for an apartment in Pebble Beach or Augusta Homes (2nd floor +) over a plot or villa because of Privacy & GC view. The plots/villas have neither.

    4. I would go for a really high floor in a high-rise tower (20 floor +) to get some aloofness from the congestion & construction activity unless your apartment & tower offers genuinely good views of the GC. My take is that such units are only 10-15% of the total units which are being sold as GC view units. So either a true GC view unit or go for a really high floor.

    5. Wishtown apartments are surely undervalued at present. Jaypee keeps pulling some stunts from time to time to increase the perceived value, for example, the strange pricing on their website and look at the recent launches like Boomerang, Kristal & Kasablanca. But it’s going to take a lot more from Jaypee before the market starts to price wishtown fairly. There are some genuine complex issues with respect to developing such a large township where Jaypee needs to deliver. But there are some fairly simple areas where Jaypee could make quick progress like having a responsive Customer Care department and remove the ambiguity related to basic things like club memberships, visitor parkings, etc (check the list being compiled by Dineshsays). Such information would be readily available from most other builders at the time of booking itself, but in Wishtown, buyers have to struggle (under-statement) to get even basic issues clarified. I think the problem with Jaypee is that it is too big in size for it to get these small things to work. So if I am a current owner of a Wishtown property, I can only wait and hope for this dream to the fulfilled. And in case I am currently thinking of investing in Wishtown, I would easily wait for 6 months and then reassess the situation. There is nothing on ground to suggest the prices will runaway in this period.
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  • Phantom Menace at work ...... you hit it on the nail - Only thing JP Greater Noida lacking vis-a-vis is JP Noida is location i.e. Distance from Delhi City Center. JP Noida is manageable if 8-lane Kalindi Kunj bridge operational.In Sam Walton's words - In Real Estate only one thing works - location-location-location - JP Noida beats GN hands down


    Originally Posted by phantomII
    I visited JP Greater Noida a few days back to see what can be expected from Wishtown. On my way back, I also made a short stop at the Wishtown marketing office. Here is a summary of the info I gathered with some of my observations.

    The GN golf course is spread over 200 acres and is a championship level 18-hole course. The Wishtown Golf course is only 97 acres (18 holes) + 40 acres (9 holes) = 137 acres.

    Bingo ..... Wishtown Noida offers "bacon strips of Golf" compared to full-fledged golf course at JP GN. Please see google earth pics, posted in this thread earlier, for more details. True Golf enthusiasts should look to JP Greater Noida instead - Danda Ghumana hai - Shoshe Baji Karni hai to JP Noida will do -

    The GN golf course has been designed keeping GOLF in mind, and residential apartments & villas are built on its periphery (with the exception of the 4 Sun Court towers). The Wishtown golf course has been designed with the primary intention of selling residential units.

    The membership of the JP GN golf course comes free with every purchase of real estate in JP GN. In case you sell your holding, the membership gets transferred to the new owner. In case you want to purchase a separate membership, the current rate is 21 lacs.

    JP GN has a fantastic Sports Complex. You have to see it to believe it. It’s like having a Siri-fort Sports complex next to your home with top-notch facilities. The one time life membership for a family is Rs. 5 lacs and monthly membership fee is Rs. 1200. Totally worth it and would not think twice about it.

    Nothing like the GN Sports complex is planned in Wishtown as of now, but the Wishtown marketing guy told that JP still has a lot of space (for example there is warehouse just south of the Jaypee Hospital) where a big sports complex could come up. Sounded a bit too vague for me to digest and even if it does comes up, I doubt it will be even a shade of the GN sports complex.

    Here, I disagree - Sports facilities are spread across wishtown - Both sides of Kensington Boulevard projects - Kricket, Soccer, Lawn Tennis, Basket ball, Swimming facilities etc are planned. These facilities are there in other projects as well e.g. Garden isles, Klassic, Krescent homes etc.

    Mind you .... Wishtown Noida is 1162 acres township .... its not a project like in GN.




    The GN villas are something really exclusive. You could compare it to a South Delhi farmhouse experience without the hassle of maintaining a farmhouse. Very quite & very private. They have a handful of villas on 500 sq yd plots which are still available. JP will construct the villa and hand it over to you in 18 months as a bare shell. The outer facade is controlled by JP and you can choose between 2-3 design options. The rate is around 5.5 cr.

    You just cannot compare the GN villas with the Wishtown GC plots/villas as in Wishtown they will be surrounded by thousands of high rise apartments. I’m not sure how comfortable one will feel with a thousand eyes staring at you when one is sitting in his villa terrace.

    Completely agree with you.

    Wishtown GC side only (incl. Kube & Orchards and excl. KB) has about 100 towers launched with inventory of around 7000+ apartments & 450+ plots/villas. Looking at their masterplan, one can see that another 60+ towers are still to be launched. So one can easily expect that another 4000-4500 apartments will be added to the total inventory over a period of 10 years.

    The good part is that wishtown GC side is being built in a left to right fashion so it will become inhabitable in say about 18-24 months when Kalypso, Imperial, PC & PH will be handed over. But the famous GC views will have some eyesore points due to massive construction going on in the middle island for years to come.

    My takeaways:

    1. the Golf Living experience at Wishtown will not be more than 30-35% of the Greater Noida experience.

    Agree

    2. The Boomerang Membership is only worth if you are a golfer. Otherwise it is better to wait for the Main Sports complex to come up (if it ever does).
    Sports facilities are spread across wishtown - No need for dedicated Sports Complex
    3. I would go for an apartment in Pebble Beach or Augusta Homes (2nd floor +) over a plot or villa because of Privacy & GC view. The plots/villas have neither.
    Agree
    4. I would go for a really high floor in a high-rise tower (20 floor +) to get some aloofness from the congestion & construction activity unless your apartment & tower offers genuinely good views of the GC. My take is that such units are only 10-15% of the total units which are being sold as GC view units. So either a true GC view unit or go for a really high floor.
    Agree
    5. Wishtown apartments are surely undervalued at present. Jaypee keeps pulling some stunts from time to time to increase the perceived value, for example, the strange pricing on their website and look at the recent launches like Boomerang, Kristal & Kasablanca. But it’s going to take a lot more from Jaypee before the market starts to price wishtown fairly. There are some genuine complex issues with respect to developing such a large township where Jaypee needs to deliver. But there are some fairly simple areas where Jaypee could make quick progress like having a responsive Customer Care department and remove the ambiguity related to basic things like club memberships, visitor parkings, etc (check the list being compiled by Dineshsays). Such information would be readily available from most other builders at the time of booking itself, but in Wishtown, buyers have to struggle (under-statement) to get even basic issues clarified. I think the problem with Jaypee is that it is too big in size for it to get these small things to work. So if I am a current owner of a Wishtown property, I can only wait and hope for this dream to the fulfilled. And in case I am currently thinking of investing in Wishtown, I would easily wait for 6 months and then reassess the situation. There is nothing on ground to suggest the prices will runaway in this period.


    Completely Agree
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    The orchards 2100 plan is really good, IMHO thats a smart choice 9wont this stretch your budget though) (Phantom Bro - will come on Orchards vs Kube)

    But 20% correction, in Indian RE, well, I dont think so, 20% apreciation in a year and half - more likely

    Again - you may have your reasons and they may well play out. Not saying it cant happen, it can - I am completely in the boat of the people who say Indian RE is overpriced as an asset class - IT IS. But does it mean it will correct therefore to meaningful valuations - I dont know but I dont think so


    Just some basic facts

    1) 50% correction, requires 100% healing.

    2) Vice versa a 100% appreciation requires only 50% knock.
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  • Phantom II,

    Very aptly analysed n equally well described.

    At the end of the day, it is like this....if you want a great location vis-a-vis Delhi...you have to choose WT, which is a package of goodies and commercialism...on the other hand, for purely a great quality living, it is GN.
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  • Ved, Shaurya29 - Agree with your analysis on location... But remember JP ka sabse bada negative is endless supply, jiske kaaran JP is value for money... but this endless supply will keep on limiting the prices to rise for a long amount of time...

    Even the prices have increased only in properties which have least supply... So many properties of JP will remain good for end use but not for investment for considerably more time to come...
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  • Originally Posted by RamanT
    Ved, Shaurya29 - Agree with your analysis on location... But remember JP ka sabse bada negative is endless supply, jiske kaaran JP is value for money... but this endless supply will keep on limiting the prices to rise for a long amount of time...

    Even the prices have increased only in properties which have least supply... So many properties of JP will remain good for end use but not for investment for considerably more time to come...


    Raman Bhai - agree with this partially. See in Noida (especially the expressway and other developing zones) - price movement is done a lot on speculation - on what may be (as 80% is UC currently)

    Why is it that LB is on a premium over Klassic/Kosmos - its not as if the end products are vastly different, infact if anything - Klassic/Kosmos have an advantage of Location and being part of a township

    The reason is simple - LB has constructed faster and it will be RTM faster while Klassic/Kosmos will take some time to be properly inhabited. Further the risk with such a huge township and the underlying fear is greater because so many MORE things can go wrong here vis-a-vis an LB kind of project

    Therefore currently Kosmos is at 3400 and LB is at 4800 (roughly)

    Now fast forward in the future say 2-3 years. Now its not speculative any more, its in front of your eyes - if both provide comparable construction quality and Jaypee additionally provides a better living experience vide being a township (with a multitude of features) and because of a slightly better locational advantage, tell me why would I pay a premium to LB anymore? Its just not logical - I am getting a fruit there and a slightly juicier fruit here - I'll probably pay more for the juicier fruit if not atleast the same

    Well what should happen then WRT price - either LB will come down or Kosmos will go up or both will come down (because of oversupply) or may go up because of some mass/rapid urbanization in the region - not sure how the price will go - but what is straightforward is that the DIFFERENCE in price will come down

    So the point I am trying to convey is - in the future, it will be less about Jaypee having more or less supply, it will be much more on how various projects that are differently priced currently owing to speculative projections on completion timelines etc will start to equalize in terms of price based the category of the unit and the demand/supply of that category type within this area. What is visually there will control pricing rather than speculation

    Like you rightly said - niche products should rise faster and products with supply overhang will rise slower but would still equalize within the builders/projects of the general area (provided other aspects are generally the same and not fundamentally different)
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  • Do you think Klassic/Kosmos has a better location as compared to LB.
    To me, anything on that side of expressway has a worse location than
    Sector-100, 107 and 110 etc which are on opposite side.

    Also, being part of a big township is an advantage if Wishtown's facilities
    are anything similar to JP Greater Noida. Here, you have 20000 flats and the construction is going to go on for ever and people fear that it takes a very brave person to predict that Wishtown will not come to periodic halts due to several political and economical reasons .

    And also, I think you should compare JP's rates with other poorer locations like 7X . Even they are quoting higher than Klassic/Kosmos. Prateek's project is quoting higher than JP and that project is in Sec-120.

    So, its just that right now people dont have enough faith in JP and till now JP has done everything possible to make people believe so.

    For JP this should be the tagline "If you book today, its for your children. If you book tomorrow, its for your grandchildren."

    Till now JP has not delivered any single tower . Tomorrow if a sadakchaap builder comes at a sadakchaap location, still people will want to try that as they already know whats the story with JP.

    Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Raman Bhai - agree with this partially. See in
    Why is it that LB is on a premium over Klassic/Kosmos - its not as if the end products are vastly different, infact if anything - Klassic/Kosmos have an advantage of Location and being part of a township
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  • For many people jaypee will still take yrs to deliver, they just say jaypee, no, too slow construction. Despite excellent construction quality jp has spoiled its name due to slow progress and too big inventories.

    If ats village sells at 11000 Rs psf its a shame that pebble beach sells also at 11000 rs psf. If you compare productwise pebble shd cost double as compared to ats and hopefully it will happen some day but that day remains bit far due to slow work speed by jp.

    Kosmos etc...have too big inventories and i doubt if it will fetch above 4 k on posession, i am bullish on golf side projects but have my doubts for mass products like kosmos garden isles etc...they will take a lot of time to get constructed n completely occupied.
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  • Originally Posted by phantomII
    I visited JP Greater Noida a few days back to see what can be expected from Wishtown. On my way back, I also made a short stop at the Wishtown marketing office. Here is a summary of the info I gathered with some of my observations.

    The GN golf course is spread over 200 acres and is a championship level 18-hole course. The Wishtown Golf course is only 97 acres (18 holes) + 40 acres (9 holes) = 137 acres.

    The GN golf course has been designed keeping GOLF in mind, and residential apartments & villas are built on its periphery (with the exception of the 4 Sun Court towers). The Wishtown golf course has been designed with the primary intention of selling residential units.

    The membership of the JP GN golf course comes free with every purchase of real estate in JP GN. In case you sell your holding, the membership gets transferred to the new owner. In case you want to purchase a separate membership, the current rate is 21 lacs.

    JP GN has a fantastic Sports Complex. You have to see it to believe it. It’s like having a Siri-fort Sports complex next to your home with top-notch facilities. The one time life membership for a family is Rs. 5 lacs and monthly membership fee is Rs. 1200. Totally worth it and would not think twice about it.

    Nothing like the GN Sports complex is planned in Wishtown as of now, but the Wishtown marketing guy told that JP still has a lot of space (for example there is warehouse just south of the Jaypee Hospital) where a big sports complex could come up. Sounded a bit too vague for me to digest and even if it does comes up, I doubt it will be even a shade of the GN sports complex.

    The GN villas are something really exclusive. You could compare it to a South Delhi farmhouse experience without the hassle of maintaining a farmhouse. Very quite & very private. They have a handful of villas on 500 sq yd plots which are still available. JP will construct the villa and hand it over to you in 18 months as a bare shell. The outer facade is controlled by JP and you can choose between 2-3 design options. The rate is around 5.5 cr.

    You just cannot compare the GN villas with the Wishtown GC plots/villas as in Wishtown they will be surrounded by thousands of high rise apartments. I’m not sure how comfortable one will feel with a thousand eyes staring at you when one is sitting in his villa terrace.

    Wishtown GC side only (incl. Kube & Orchards and excl. KB) has about 100 towers launched with inventory of around 7000+ apartments & 450+ plots/villas. Looking at their masterplan, one can see that another 60+ towers are still to be launched. So one can easily expect that another 4000-4500 apartments will be added to the total inventory over a period of 10 years.

    The good part is that wishtown GC side is being built in a left to right fashion so it will become inhabitable in say about 18-24 months when Kalypso, Imperial, PC & PH will be handed over. But the famous GC views will have some eyesore points due to massive construction going on in the middle island for years to come.

    My takeaways:

    1. the Golf Living experience at Wishtown will not be more than 30-35% of the Greater Noida experience.

    2. The Boomerang Membership is only worth if you are a golfer. Otherwise it is better to wait for the Main Sports complex to come up (if it ever does).

    3. I would go for an apartment in Pebble Beach or Augusta Homes (2nd floor +) over a plot or villa because of Privacy & GC view. The plots/villas have neither.

    4. I would go for a really high floor in a high-rise tower (20 floor +) to get some aloofness from the congestion & construction activity unless your apartment & tower offers genuinely good views of the GC. My take is that such units are only 10-15% of the total units which are being sold as GC view units. So either a true GC view unit or go for a really high floor.

    5. Wishtown apartments are surely undervalued at present. Jaypee keeps pulling some stunts from time to time to increase the perceived value, for example, the strange pricing on their website and look at the recent launches like Boomerang, Kristal & Kasablanca. But it’s going to take a lot more from Jaypee before the market starts to price wishtown fairly. There are some genuine complex issues with respect to developing such a large township where Jaypee needs to deliver. But there are some fairly simple areas where Jaypee could make quick progress like having a responsive Customer Care department and remove the ambiguity related to basic things like club memberships, visitor parkings, etc (check the list being compiled by Dineshsays). Such information would be readily available from most other builders at the time of booking itself, but in Wishtown, buyers have to struggle (under-statement) to get even basic issues clarified. I think the problem with Jaypee is that it is too big in size for it to get these small things to work. So if I am a current owner of a Wishtown property, I can only wait and hope for this dream to the fulfilled. And in case I am currently thinking of investing in Wishtown, I would easily wait for 6 months and then reassess the situation. There is nothing on ground to suggest the prices will runaway in this period.


    Phantom - accept my complements - very astute observations in general. Glad to have read your views.

    A few points I'd like to make, which should be considered as an accompaniment to your post.


    1. Size of the Golf Course. I think its fair for you (and you Shaurya Bhai) to understand how big a championship level course needs to be. The Jaypee Greater Noida course is an anomaly in terms of the size (in a good way). Please note that it is INDIA's biggest Golf Course. Further a HUGE area of the Golf course (part of 200 acres) is included in the massive 300 yard by 100 yard practice range (which is not there in WT).

    WT 18 hole course at ~ 100 acres is sufficient to be a championship level course. Some facts (confirmed via our friend Mr. Google):

    - Noida Golf Course is 97 acres
    - Qutub Golf Course (Lado Sarai) is 110 acres
    - Army Golf Course 49 acres

    Jaypee WT is a slightly tighter layout but is dispersed with lakes and bunkers and should be a very interesting experience

    2. Importance of 18+9 holes - only Delhi GC and Classic in Manesar are the only 2 other clubs in NCR to offer this facility. You have the option to play the shorter 9 hole, par 3 course to warm up or you want a quick game and then go onto the 18 hole course, it will do good for when rush picks up

    3. Membership of GN GC is free with all purchases of GN flats - please confirm this once as per my knowledge only select apartments like Sun Court/Earth Court and the Villas and Townhomes gave this complimentary. These are only 10% of the total units on sale at GN. I don't think this is correct

    4. Sports complex at GN - is awesome, I fully endorse that. I also agree that while the Master Plan of WT does show a whole host of sporting grounds all across the township - I dont think something as dedicated as this is available. I wouldnt think twice before buying this membership also (I also got the offer to buy this in GN - but I'll only get this if I get the studio apartment I am thinking of there (more on this in a bit))

    5. Coming to GN vs WT comparison - it is a slightly unfair comparison. GN is the best, ultra low density, extremely open, extremely green, top class campus - probably the best in NCR. GN property is really a dream - I often go there and think that I should get a studio at least to spend my weekends (I am still pondering). There is a reason why this property is trading at 3 TIMES the average Greater Noida rate. If anyone goes to GN and comes back to say WT is going to be like that, is mistaken - WT is a mass market, multi segment, multi use township which is very unlike GN which is an interpretation of Resort living. WT is all about location. Jaypee GN for most would be a second home or a getaway or an NRI investment or a rich businessman in these parts and such. WT on the other hand will have everyone - from 1 BHK owners in Kosmos to 5000 sq ft one house per tower owners in Boomerang Residency and Pebble Court

    6. Villa living in GN vs WT - agree with you, no comparison (except location benefit for WT)

    7. Golf Views - agree with you, if you don't choose carefully you may have construction on your head for a few years - therefore the unit in WT is very very important. 30% experience vs GN may be a little unfair - I'd say 60% or so depending on the Unit is more like it (my opinion only). Floor preference over 20 stories is subjective - I did a massive exercise in determining ideal floors for this and felt that it TOTALLY depended on how close your unit was to the GC and the length of the view ( I personally endorse your views having brought a 20+ floor flat in Kalypso having long views). However in some case like Augusta/Pebble - I'd actually go for much lower floors - you can 'smell' the grass if you know what I mean

    8. Number of towers in the GC area left (still to be launched) is more close to 25-30 (only 60% of the Pebble Beach island is left and the strip next to Jaypee School/JIIT is left)

    9. WT pricing - yes is undervalued - will remain so for some more time. Triggers for momentum build up will play only in 1-2 years time. You are further right that WT is complex and Jaypee doesn't help its own perception by not being open and transparent and keeping things hidden and undisclosed

    10. Subject of waiting before entering WT - agreed prices are not going to run away but select good units are not going to be easy to find in the same token at easy prices. Factor both when making a decision. In anycase if you are on the sidelines then be cognizant to act before the momentum trigger really kicks in - it HAS to in the intermediate term.

    Again - well written assessment, I really liked reading your observations
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