What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Do you think there will be any impact on WT for the Azam Khan resignation?
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Phantom - accept my complements - very astute observations in general. Glad to have read your views.

    A few points I'd like to make, which should be considered as an accompaniment to your post.


    1. Size of the Golf Course. I think its fair for you (and you Shaurya Bhai) to understand how big a championship level course needs to be. The Jaypee Greater Noida course is an anomaly in terms of the size (in a good way). Please note that it is INDIA's biggest Golf Course. Further a HUGE area of the Golf course (part of 200 acres) is included in the massive 300 yard by 100 yard practice range (which is not there in WT).

    WT 18 hole course at ~ 100 acres is sufficient to be a championship level course. Some facts (confirmed via our friend Mr. Google):

    - Noida Golf Course is 97 acres
    - Qutub Golf Course (Lado Sarai) is 110 acres
    - Army Golf Course 49 acres

    Jaypee WT is a slightly tighter layout but is dispersed with lakes and bunkers and should be a very interesting experience

    2. Importance of 18+9 holes - only Delhi GC and Classic in Manesar are the only 2 other clubs in NCR to offer this facility. You have the option to play the shorter 9 hole, par 3 course to warm up or you want a quick game and then go onto the 18 hole course, it will do good for when rush picks up

    3. Membership of GN GC is free with all purchases of GN flats - please confirm this once as per my knowledge only select apartments like Sun Court/Earth Court and the Villas and Townhomes gave this complimentary. These are only 10% of the total units on sale at GN. I don't think this is correct

    4. Sports complex at GN - is awesome, I fully endorse that. I also agree that while the Master Plan of WT does show a whole host of sporting grounds all across the township - I dont think something as dedicated as this is available. I wouldnt think twice before buying this membership also (I also got the offer to buy this in GN - but I'll only get this if I get the studio apartment I am thinking of there (more on this in a bit))

    5. Coming to GN vs WT comparison - it is a slightly unfair comparison. GN is the best, ultra low density, extremely open, extremely green, top class campus - probably the best in NCR. GN property is really a dream - I often go there and think that I should get a studio at least to spend my weekends (I am still pondering). There is a reason why this property is trading at 3 TIMES the average Greater Noida rate. If anyone goes to GN and comes back to say WT is going to be like that, is mistaken - WT is a mass market, multi segment, multi use township which is very unlike GN which is an interpretation of Resort living. WT is all about location. Jaypee GN for most would be a second home or a getaway or an NRI investment or a rich businessman in these parts and such. WT on the other hand will have everyone - from 1 BHK owners in Kosmos to 5000 sq ft one house per tower owners in Boomerang Residency and Pebble Court

    6. Villa living in GN vs WT - agree with you, no comparison (except location benefit for WT)

    7. Golf Views - agree with you, if you don't choose carefully you may have construction on your head for a few years - therefore the unit in WT is very very important. 30% experience vs GN may be a little unfair - I'd say 60% or so depending on the Unit is more like it (my opinion only). Floor preference over 20 stories is subjective - I did a massive exercise in determining ideal floors for this and felt that it TOTALLY depended on how close your unit was to the GC and the length of the view ( I personally endorse your views having brought a 20+ floor flat in Kalypso having long views). However in some case like Augusta/Pebble - I'd actually go for much lower floors - you can 'smell' the grass if you know what I mean

    8. Number of towers in the GC area left (still to be launched) is more close to 25-30 (only 60% of the Pebble Beach island is left and the strip next to Jaypee School/JIIT is left)

    9. WT pricing - yes is undervalued - will remain so for some more time. Triggers for momentum build up will play only in 1-2 years time. You are further right that WT is complex and Jaypee doesn't help its own perception by not being open and transparent and keeping things hidden and undisclosed

    10. Subject of waiting before entering WT - agreed prices are not going to run away but select good units are not going to be easy to find in the same token at easy prices. Factor both when making a decision. In anycase if you are on the sidelines then be cognizant to act before the momentum trigger really kicks in - it HAS to in the intermediate term.

    Again - well written assessment, I really liked reading your observations


    Dinesh Bhai,

    Thank you for your compliments and your accompaniment to my post, which really did present a more complete picture. And my apologies for my delayed response as was caught up in some things.

    My comments and queries are as under:

    On location, I do agree with everyone that Wishtown is about location, location & location. My purpose of comparing with JP Greater Noida was only with respect to aligning my expectations of the 'Wishtown Golf Living experience'.

    I have also visited Aralias, Catrionas & M3M in Gurgaon to understand better the Golf-living hype (clarification: I’m not a Golfer and my interest in Golf-properties is not to have a home where I can have the convenience to play golf or admire the sport on well manicured greens. I’m only interested in the aspirational value and the directly proportional expected appreciation in value in time to come). Most people would know this but I'm mentioning it anyway, that there is no golf-view from Aralias. It is like golf links in Delhi, where you enjoy the openness & exclusivity of the surrounding, but it does not have golf-view per se. It has done well because it was the only project of its kind in its time and managed to generate tremendous aspirational value.

    The size of the golf course in Wishtown may not be an issue, but I am not satisfied with their design. My main two concerns are the GC plots in the middle (Savanna, Pelican & the Pebble Beach Island villas) and the whole Pebble Beach Island strip.

    First, my apprehension with reference to the GC plots (disclaimer : I'm not sure about this as there is not too much information available) is that there is no facade control and also there is no boundation of time in which one needs to build on them. And as they form a sizable visible chunk right in the middle, any dissimilar design including vacant plots will certainly be an eyesore (with some black sintex water tanks to throw in).

    Second, with reference to the Pebble Beach Island strip, the Wishtown Masterplan shows about 20 unlaunched towers on the Island and another 40 towers on the Jaypee School/JIIT strip. So how come you are only assuming total of 25-30 towers left to be launched? If you will see the model of Wishtown at the Jaypee office, the 20 towers yet to be launched in the island are all in the 25-30 floors range. This not only messes up the design & beauty aspect, it also effectively means 6-8 years of heavy construction activity right in the heart of Wishtown.

    Pebble beach was initially launched at 15K+ and then revised to around 10K. Even today it is easily available in resale value of 10.5K, hence next to zero appreciation. The only logical conclusion I can derive from it is that people do realize that it would not be habitable for the next 6-8 years. And something which you cannot show-off, does not have any aspirational value.

    I believe that the Noida market is now ready to accept genuine luxury projects (my definition of ‘Luxury’ is unit size above 3500 sqft, project density less than 40 units per acre, good facilities & good maintenance). And I foresee excellent appreciation in this segment as availability is limited. I have a good feeling about Lotus 300, even though it’s location is average. And one of the big reasons for success of Lotus 300 will not be the project itself, but the lack of availability of RTM units in this segment in the next two years (with special thanks to UGCC & Wishtown who have created the demand for this segment with nothing delivered so far).

    I know that there are not too many people tracking luxury projects on IREF. But it would still be interesting to note their views, if they are willing to share. Thanks for reading.
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  • Dinesh, JKP2, Ved kapoor and now phantom.... you people really makes it worth to come to IREF.
    Thanks for ur time and writing good snippets.
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  • Originally Posted by Veeru Dada
    Dinesh, JKP2, Ved kapoor and now phantom.... you people really makes it worth to come to IREF.
    Thanks for ur time and writing good snippets.


    Oh...most welcome, Friend. :)

    BTW, while the other two gentlemen you mentioned, viz., Dinesh and JPKP2 are really experts in their own right and bring out details we normally do not know / notice before (and now Phantom who likewise brings in "ëye for detail" and a pretty savvy analysis).... I see myself more of an apprentice, a keen observer of WT who wants to learn by encouraging discussions.

    Shukriya...any ways.
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  • A JP executive has confirmed to an HT reporter (in an interview published in HT estates yesterday) that the first set of WT flats will indeed be handed over in Dec '12.
    As expected, we will perhaps see some decisive price movement in pavillion.
    If demand for pav resale 6000+ is strong post possession, we may expect sunny days in a long painful crusade for other WT props as well.
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  • Whether Dec 2012, which is like around the corner or early 2013...Yes...the first set of possessions on the apartments side now, after the plots, should be a real ice breaker...and set the tone of the shape of things to come...at least, at least, in terms of actual delivery as distinguished from glossy brochures and big township models :)

    Some one on this thread or elsewhere made an interesting observation...WT properties are like wine...take time to mature...but eventually come out well....

    der aaye duroost aaye...wali baat hone ja rahi hai..., as it seems so far.
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  • Originally Posted by anantv
    A JP executive has confirmed to an HT reporter (in an interview published in HT estates yesterday) that the first set of WT flats will indeed be handed over in Dec '12.
    As expected, we will perhaps see some decisive price movement in pavillion.
    If demand for pav resale 6000+ is strong post possession, we may expect sunny days in a long painful crusade for other WT props as well.



    6000+ in JP and waht about Noida sectors? 12000+?
    It looks like Aliens are going to come and Buy property in NCR!!!
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  • Originally Posted by itisworld
    6000+ in JP and waht about Noida sectors? 12000+?
    It looks like Aliens are going to come and Buy property in NCR!!!


    :-) Indeed.

    I dont know if Noy-daa even deserves 6000+, forget about 12000.

    But I am rooting for rates to keep heading north.
    2-3 flats main fase hua hoon, i mean invested hoon ;).
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  • Ok - I went to see JP Greater Noida yesterday (as a sample of their quality of work) and was shown a 22 nd floor property which has been delivered. This was to the left hand side just before the Boomerang entrance. It was a biggish flat, I'd guess about 3000 sft. The views were just fantastic. But, there are some things I'd like to ask here and see if we can get some views.

    1. There is a crack on the wall right on the top left corner above the kitchen door. This looked like something that cannot be easily fixed and since the ACs have been installed, I am assuming the flat is ready to be delivered. i.e. no more POP or paint coats. Question is, was this caused by the earthquake last year? And, is it normal to see such cracks on new apartment walls?

    2. There was leakage (water perhaps) from the drawing room AC and that has made an ugly mark on the wall. Should this happen normally? I have three splits in my current rented home and do not have any such leakage marks on my walls.

    3. Question - the floor of the apartment looked like its a pinkish shade marble floor. Is this what JP calls "imported" marble? Or is it Italian marble? Whatever it is, I would rather not have that shade of marble on my floor. Do I have a choice here? Can I ask JP to not give me ugly floors in my apartment?

    Sorry, I do not know the name of the project I went to see, but it had Golf course view in front, and also a smallish playgound (or smaller golf course on the back side as well) and overlooks the round sun/moon towers from its front.

    Thoughts?
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  • Its crescent court i guess...

    I went to see that too...

    But dint look so closely..

    Hoping to have my flat without any damage...
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  • Originally Posted by rovingeye
    Ok - I went to see JP Greater Noida yesterday (as a sample of their quality of work) and was shown a 22 nd floor property which has been delivered. This was to the left hand side just before the Boomerang entrance. It was a biggish flat, I'd guess about 3000 sft. The views were just fantastic. But, there are some things I'd like to ask here and see if we can get some views.

    1. There is a crack on the wall right on the top left corner above the kitchen door. This looked like something that cannot be easily fixed and since the ACs have been installed, I am assuming the flat is ready to be delivered. i.e. no more POP or paint coats. Question is, was this caused by the earthquake last year? And, is it normal to see such cracks on new apartment walls?

    2. There was leakage (water perhaps) from the drawing room AC and that has made an ugly mark on the wall. Should this happen normally? I have three splits in my current rented home and do not have any such leakage marks on my walls.

    3. Question - the floor of the apartment looked like its a pinkish shade marble floor. Is this what JP calls "imported" marble? Or is it Italian marble? Whatever it is, I would rather not have that shade of marble on my floor. Do I have a choice here? Can I ask JP to not give me ugly floors in my apartment?

    Sorry, I do not know the name of the project I went to see, but it had Golf course view in front, and also a smallish playgound (or smaller golf course on the back side as well) and overlooks the round sun/moon towers from its front.

    Thoughts?


    2 - Water leaking from a split happens. Had this only yesterday in my own house. Called a fixer who just gave some direction to the water pipe to ensure it runs backward and out. Small problem

    3 - Pinkish Marble :) post a picture and I could comment better. I think we agreed that tiles are better these days. FYI - Kalypso and Imperial nearer home are providing reasonable Tiles which I could 'live' with for quite a few years. Not too perturbed by this

    1 - Crack on the wall, ooh, again I wish you could have posted a picture. Now cracks can be few types and mean a few things. See all modern apartment buildings are based on a RCC column beam grid structure on deep pile foundations. The way this pans out is that all the weight is in these columns and beams down to the piles. The crack on the wall has 3 different levels of severity:

    - Was it a superficial crack i.e. poor POP job (mositure left and coat applied too early).
    - A crack on the non load bearing brick wall (means poor plasterwork, but nothing problematic from a structural integrity standpoint
    - A crack on the column/beam grid (means the load bearing elements may be cracking which may lead to all kinds of problem - even leading to structural failure in a worst case problem)

    Now depending on where this crack is classified implies how serious the issue is.

    If it is #3, I would probably compaint to the authorities for negligence after calling in a structural engineer. I would be very very upset.

    If it is #2, I would probably give a complaint in writing to Jaypee and cc this to their higher ups and give them negative propaganda in IREF and within my friends circles

    If it is #1, I would go down to their maintenance office and ask them to fix it. This kind of shit 'happens'
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  • I wish I had taken pictures.

    About the crack - I ran my fingers over it and it seemed deep. That's all I remember unfortunately. If I happen to visit again, I'll note more carefully and take pictures. I know this isnt too helpful

    Meanwhile, if someone on this forum lives nearby, maybe they can make a quick visit to the 22nd floor of Crescent Court and update us.
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  • Well about the crack in the wall,

    Very rare possibility of third type of crack. The Shear walls are mostly never within the liveable space or apartments. It is usually elevators and stairs that are core walls acting as shear walls. This is probably crack in brick/blockwall which is non load bearing. But if it was deep enough and split ran quite a distance only indicates slight differentail settlemnt of the column. Once again structure settles as it gets built up and loaded with all dead loads which minimises after first few years. Unless you can see crack in the beam or slab do not worry much. It can be repaired. Those are minor things and just depends on the soil conditions below which vary from site ot site.
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  • Does any one knoe the current resale/new price for Kasa Isles 2BHK unit ?

    please advise
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    2 - Water leaking from a split happens. Had this only yesterday in my own house. Called a fixer who just gave some direction to the water pipe to ensure it runs backward and out. Small problem

    3 - Pinkish Marble :) post a picture and I could comment better. I think we agreed that tiles are better these days. FYI - Kalypso and Imperial nearer home are providing reasonable Tiles which I could 'live' with for quite a few years. Not too perturbed by this

    1 - Crack on the wall, ooh, again I wish you could have posted a picture. Now cracks can be few types and mean a few things. See all modern apartment buildings are based on a RCC column beam grid structure on deep pile foundations. The way this pans out is that all the weight is in these columns and beams down to the piles. The crack on the wall has 3 different levels of severity:

    - Was it a superficial crack i.e. poor POP job (mositure left and coat applied too early).
    - A crack on the non load bearing brick wall (means poor plasterwork, but nothing problematic from a structural integrity standpoint
    - A crack on the column/beam grid (means the load bearing elements may be cracking which may lead to all kinds of problem - even leading to structural failure in a worst case problem)

    Now depending on where this crack is classified implies how serious the issue is.

    If it is #3, I would probably compaint to the authorities for negligence after calling in a structural engineer. I would be very very upset.

    If it is #2, I would probably give a complaint in writing to Jaypee and cc this to their higher ups and give them negative propaganda in IREF and within my friends circles

    If it is #1, I would go down to their maintenance office and ask them to fix it. This kind of shit 'happens'


    Dinesh bhai

    No idea about cracks but happened to visit this flat in crescent court today.

    With nice weather just felt like going to gn early morning, left home at 7:45 am , reached boomerang for b/fast , visited sales office at 10 am to know gn jaypee property better. Then visited crescent court corner top floor flat. The views are out of the world. The room sizes are big, 2800 for 2 bhk and 3400 for 3 bhk.

    Want to know from jaypee experts , is a similar golf view possible from WT Noida orchards 20 th Floor 1798 size ? Or will it be too far from golf ?

    If we rate crescent greater noida view as 9/10 how would you rate orchards upper floor 03 num unit view ?
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