What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Hi reals, I booked after a lot of research and chose JP for location, better floor plan and higher carpet area to super area ratio compared to 3C for the same area of flat. Also because Jp was a township. Price psf was same for both when I booked.

    I made my decisions on the same arguments and logic I keep presenting on this site.

    Yes, I ignored internet chatter because I have been on it for 12 years and know what to believe and what not to. I believe JP is high risk, high reward (might be wrong). You are mistaken about the power of these discussion boards, very few people who invest in RE use or read them. Opinions expressed here have no influence - it is the gossip circle of broker/dealer who influence projects - mainly based on discounts recieved and talking points - eg. JP is a very big group, 3C is the best quality, is green etc etc. Mostly, internet chatter is pessimistic.

    I would still recommend JP as second best after 3C (as I did 3 months ago) because the project is near sold out and will go forward. JP has enough money and did not pay for the land which was acquired and allotted by Yamuna expressway. Their only expense is paying for the Yamuna expressway from their pockets, which is full with private equity with JP Associates right now.

    They have little interest costs (I would also recommend their shares, down 6% today and likely to go down further - a superb buy if it falls below 100). Their business model is different from all other RE companies and IMO a winner, thanks to the last 6 months.

    Apart from 3c boulevard/espacia, glory, saphire and JP I have reservations regarding all other so-called expressway projects. 3c boulevard is the best - their door and window quality is excellent. Approach roads are excellent and direct. But rooms are small.

    I saw the construction today, Kosmos is being built on a war footing. Towers 1-50 deep excavations almost complete, foundation concrete pouring started.

    Towers 50-80 still grass fields. Fencing is ongoing, not complete. Be more careful of towers after 50. But slow construction is not necessarily a bad thing in a CLP.

    Very disappointed about the e-way entry and exits.

    Hope this helps,

    Venkat


    venkytalks sir, found this brilliant bit of analysis from you where you claimed JP had little interest costs and where you recommend JPA stock as a superb buy below 100. May I ask what your recommendation for those who follow your calls and bought the stock at 99.99 is ?
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  • I had raised two distinct issues in an earlier post. One was the hypocrisy of those talking up JP properties by using irrationally exuberant phraseology, while accusing others of being excessively negative when all they are doing is posting facts.

    The second, independent and distinct issue was complimenting t_yash sir's excellent post detailing the ground reality at Knight's Court, which has the most activist buyer's association among all JP projects. If buyers in other JP projects think JP senior management will treat their interests better than KCBA's, they are free to indulge themselves this fantasy.

    In any case, it seems some posters here lack the intellectual depth to realise a single post could express more than one idea and are conflating the two issues to obfuscate the discussion away from the core issue. Why are the prospective sellers in JP projects, who have been invested ( stuck) so long, and have a much better understanding of JP ground realities ( though only a few with integrity, like t_yash sir, will admit them in a public forum), want to sell their golden properties at such "ridiculously low prices" just when they are offering the "opportunity of a lifetime".
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  • Wishtown is going to be an issue unless JP is comes out of their financial owes. I asked this sometime back but never got a response...in case JP moves out, how the common area of entire WishTown & its infrastructure would be maintained.

    This way Wishtown is very different from other projects in NOIDA. Even if you are individual project is complete and given possession, there is BIG question mark on the whole thing.

    I was so happy when they launched a town ship within the city. Once we find answers to this, no doubt this is going to be a nicest place to be in. But the risk is really on a high side..
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  • pkgandhi;
    Would you mind answering these questions:
    1. Do you have any investment in Jaypee Wishtown - If not why the 'concern'
    2. What is your profession - you seem to have too much free time on your hand and you to seem to know it all.
    3. If someone has to buy an apartment today what is good - As per you everything is bad
    4. Why only bash jaypee? I dont see your posts in threads of 3C/Lotus greens, Logix, Amrapali, Unitech, Supertech, All Noida extension builders
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  • I got my flat in resale in jan 2013 and got the delay penalty mentioned in OOP
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    I had raised two distinct issues in an earlier post. One was the hypocrisy of those talking up JP properties by using irrationally exuberant phraseology, while accusing others of being excessively negative when all they are doing is posting facts.

    The second, independent and distinct issue was complimenting t_yash sir's excellent post detailing the ground reality at Knight's Court, which has the most activist buyer's association among all JP projects. If buyers in other JP projects think JP senior management will treat their interests better than KCBA's, they are free to indulge themselves this fantasy.

    In any case, it seems some posters here lack the intellectual depth to realise a single post could express more than one idea and are conflating the two issues to obfuscate the discussion away from the core issue. Why are the prospective sellers in JP projects, who have been invested ( stuck) so long, and have a much better understanding of JP ground realities ( though only a few with integrity, like t_yash sir, will admit them in a public forum), want to sell their golden properties at such "ridiculously low prices" just when they are offering the "opportunity of a lifetime".


    I cant imagine the immense torture you must be having to endure reading such substandard posts, devoid of any intellectual depth - anyhow - you are again off track and incorrect and continue to talk about things you have no clue about:

    On your first point, I have already replied - Knight Court is amongst the last of the launched projects in the GC areas (old launches) - which is not completed, or getting there.

    The following list is a comprehensive list of projects in the GC area which is nearing completion or possession already given:

    1. Imperial Court (Ready awaiting possession)
    2. Kalypso Court (All towers possession by year end)
    3. Augusta Court (Possession given)
    4. Pavilion Court (Possession given except 1 tower)
    5. Pavilion Heights (Possession given except 1 tower)
    6. All GC side plots (Hazel Villas, Pelican Villas etc - all possession given)
    7. Kalisto Townhomes (All possession given)
    8. Townhomes (Final finishing in progress - possession in 12 months or so)
    9. Knight Court (Structure Ready - delay in finishing - possession in 24 months or so)
    10. Kingswood Oriental Villas (All structure ready - final finishing in progress - possession in 12-24 months)
    11. Pebble Court (Structure ready - possession in 12-24 months)

    All roads (widest of any group housing in Noida) - are ready, most infrastructure is ready for all projects)

    I repeat the point that Poddarvaib; is making is for RTM units - which are ready, are built really well and are at a discount to the market considering fundamentals (I challenge you to discuss these READY projects on a fundamental basis for similar location/cost) - he is talking about Kalypso and Imperial - which I 100% agree are trading at a discount and are GREAT buys at the moment. It is not a question of JP Senior Mgmt treating anyone better here or not - these PROJECTS ARE READY - can you register this for once

    If you cannot appreciate this - I will be 100% sure of what your intent is - and it is certainly not saving a buyer from making mistakes

    On your second point - that of the Knight Court issue - please know this - I know Yash personally, have been in touch with him ever since he and team logged the case in NCDRC and have been extremely happy about it and praised him with all my heart over the ongoing effort. I know the exact points of discussion with the Judge, the representation of the Jaypee lawyer and even estimated timelines for him to win the case - so please - stop lecturing about core issues etc - no one here is a fool to not appreciate the rights and wrongs of any given situation.

    Of course Knight Court has been delayed to unacceptable levels - but JP even offered a 12% buyback on the homes from people who did not want to continue - which builder ever does that?

    The core point here is not the issues at JP WT - they are there and are being dealt with, no one is being exuberant about difficult/delayed projects what you are happily discounting is for projects that are READY - what is their quality, what is there price and if they are worth it - THAT AND THAT ALONE is the point made above - which you - in you highly-intellectually-stimulated-stratospheric-level-of-consciousness have failed to register
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  • I neither have any property in Jaypee or any other builder in Noida .

    The biggest advantage of wish town was it is a single , contagious land piece but because of debt issues, jaypee has been forced to sell that land to banks to avoid conversion of all debt into NPA( RBI has permitted such a move) . People who doubt the info. are free to confirm it from their sources in jaypee or wait till end of April or May when it will be confirmed through necessary disclosures at stock exchanges.

    That means banks are free to sell it to any buyer and rest everyone will understand.

    So really don't know how wish town will shape up.
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  • Originally Posted by Aggarwal88
    I neither have any property in Jaypee or any other builder in Noida .

    The biggest advantage of wish town was it is a single , contagious land piece but because of debt issues, jaypee has been forced to sell that land to banks to avoid conversion of all debt into NPA( RBI has permitted such a move) . People who doubt the info. are free to confirm it from their sources in jaypee or wait till end of April or May when it will be confirmed through necessary disclosures at stock exchanges.

    That means banks are free to sell it to any buyer and rest everyone will understand.

    So really don't know how wish town will shape up.


    Sir,
    While the gist of your post is consistent with what I would expect based on my analysis, there are probably some factual discrepancies. The banks will not buy the JP land themselves, but yes they may force JP to surrender it to them for sale to the highest bidder.
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  • Has anyone in any JP project actually received the much advertised refund with 12% interest ( please don't tell me they have offered and promised - I think everyone here knows what JP's promises are worth) ?

    Does someone know what the all-in price of a 4 BHK flat in Kalypso or imperial court is and what the actual carpet area of that flat is ( please don't quote me "rates" based on mythical super area)? Also what is monthly maintenance on such a flat ?
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  • Jaypee greens and all other projects of Jaypee are the best of its class. I remember there was a race amoung the brokers to sell these flats.

    But sadly Jaypee is almost bankrupt, no one is now interested in these projects. You will now not find a single brokers or dealers talking about these project.

    Suddenly all the action seems to have shifted to greater noida W .

    Jaypee residents if ever thre flats are completed will be far more satisfied than the people opting for GNW.

    Jaypee doesn't seem to be a company like kingfisher or unitech. Hope they are able to restrengthen themselves and complete the projects.
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  • Jp products are always has destination and HOLDS premium its true they are in financial crunch but they will bounce back soon as they have huge asset to deal with it .This iz the only builder who release 5000 apartment in this year's and plan another 3000 by end of year. There are putting all there efforts to get out from this turbulence.one should not compare witb Unitech or other builders.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Wishtown has been delayed since 2007 when JP had no debt problems. It is a fool's errand to speculate on fire sale prices and I will not indulge in it, but cement asset sale is a good pointer. JP couldn't finish Wishtown when they had no cash flow problems. Now, when they can't raise even 30 crores to pay interest on loans and no contractor/supplier will give them credit on payment terms, how will they complete it ? You are forgetting much of the land/buildings are mortgaged and no one will take over a semi-sold, semi-constructed project in this kind of a market.

    Anyway even if I accept your valuation of 10k crore and let us even multiply it by 5 and say 50k crores, JP will probably still have a shortfall when stacked against group liabilities of over 130k, potentially.

    I think it has clearly been demonstrated that JP is not operating on a going concern basis. Otherwise banks wouldn't have forced them to sell cement plants for zero cash and seized nirman sadan and other land banks. Wait for these to be auctioned off. The valuations will surprise you.



    From where do you get a figure of 130k Crore liability for Jaypee group?
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  • Originally Posted by Quest2012
    From where do you get a figure of 130k Crore liability for Jaypee group?

    Add up debt(60k) , current liabilities other than debt (25K) and contingent liabilities(45k)
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  • Many companies in india do some dressing up of their BL P&L etc and expect the same here. Also be prepared for disclosures not openly stated. Their auditors are some low level firms so there could be many hidden cats out of the bag later.
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  • Its not only Jaypee's condition which is worse, there are others too... however at least, JP & associated banks are making efforts all around to come out of this mess.

    Some extracts:

    So, you can only call up a loan and call up the facility when the account becomes non-performing. They may be making losses. That today, so many respected companies are making losses, but that is not an adequate ground to call up the loan.

    So companies try to fight this problem by taking trade credit or other liquidity measures and only when the situation is irretrievably, it is like a patient being taken for operation. Till there is some hope that the patient can be cured with medicine, many people do not go in for the operation. Operation is the last resort, or I would say late resort. So, that is how it works, because if you colour the loan, the whole thing collapses and for a stalled business, you get much lower valuation.

    We have seen that when the company stops production, you fetch a much worse value than if you allow it to somehow survive and go along hoping that it would turnaround.

    Read more at: Crisis-hit banking sector: Who is to be blamed? - Moneycontrol.com
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