What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Mr Bharatiya,
    The lenders' rights extend to land on which they have a mortgage claim, even if flats built on that land are registered to someone else. If the mortgage on the land is vacated, their rights are obviously extinguished as well.


    Theoretically all us are at risk. Our Govt has 55 Lakh Crore national Debt. If by some bad luck our Govt doesn't come good on interest payments. Then creditors will sue us in international courts to recover money. They can seize our national assets, Public property and private property. Just like what happened with Argentina.

    Same thing can happen with any state like UP which has 3 Lakh crore debt.
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  • Mr. pkgandhi;
    Your perspective on jaypee seemed to be balanced until few posts back, now they seem to be becoming delusionary in your ever increasing quest to beat down your self concluding hypothetical logics on the lesser mortals of this forum.
    E.g., Your conclusion that every invester in jaypee is a greedy moron of the first order takes the cake and nostrodamys like you saw it all coming. :D:D
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  • pkgandhi; please share your source of liability figures (130K) indicated by you
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Please read note 36 of the standalone balance sheet and note 37 of the consolidated balance sheet Mr. Gandhi. Again thank you for your education. But I know this much.

    ICICI bank HAS NOT TAKEN IT OVER - please post the link where it says they have taken it over.

    And I know it will not sell for 3000 Crore it's exactly what I am saying.


    Dinesh, FYI, JP management communicated in the monthly meeting with KCBA that corporate office is taken over by lenders and gave 1st April deadline to JP to vacate. Lender details and amount is not disclosed.
    Apart from that all unsold inventory at WishTown, GN is also taken over....

    Not sure on the validity of the statement as its not on official records...
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays


    An NOC was issued to register a flat yes - but what exactly is a registry - it is a legal document transferring ownership ie the bank acknowledges that the rightful new owner of so and so flat is ABCD, we acknowledge it despite having a mortgage on it.



    Banks can easily stop Registry. They can refuse to provide NOCs without which Registry will be impossible for buyers. They can file objection against Registrations to Noida authority that will cast shadow on whole WT. They can take Builder to Court and stop possession of Apartments.

    But Mr Gandhi says, Banks are just allowing everything to happen. And one day, if the time comes, Banks will go to court, kick out Buyers and take their apartments.

    To be fair, Banks may try to do that. Probability of this is 1 in Million.
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  • That is exactly what I wanted Mr pkgandhi; to acknowledge - unfortunately he started lecturing on probability scales are measured between 0-1 and not 0-10 rather than actually saying what the probability of such an event was.
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  • Originally Posted by t_yash
    Dinesh, FYI, JP management communicated in the monthly meeting with KCBA that corporate office is taken over by lenders and gave 1st April deadline to JP to vacate. Lender details and amount is not disclosed.
    Apart from that all unsold inventory at WishTown, GN is also taken over....

    Not sure on the validity of the statement as its not on official records...

    Ok Yash - acknowledged.
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  • The banks are also doing a business, they are not in it for charity. Now that the loans are delinquent, they are ring fencing their assets by

    1. Forcing JP to sell all saleable assets and recover their loans, without bothering how JP will generate revenue going forward
    2. Reduce their exposure to JP as low as possible
    3. If possible sell the assets to other companies and advance money to these companies so that loans can still be classified as good

    In this scenario no bank will stop registries and they will have protests and this will stop further sales.

    The NOC that you refer is only a no objection from the bank that has given home loan to the buyer to secure his asset. This bank may be different from the bank that has exposure to JP group.

    I however do not believe that the registered houses can be seized but the banks can surely stake their claim in courts.
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  • A registered deed may be challenged on the following grounds:

    Coercion

    That the executant had been coerced into executing the deed through an act that is prohibited by the Indian Penal Code 1860 or a threat thereof. For example, where someone threatens to hurt you or someone close to you if you do not execute a gift deed in their favour, you are said to be coerced into executing the deed.

    Undue Influence

    That the “relations subsisting between the parties are such that one of the parties is in a position to dominate the will of the other” and such relation was used to manipulate the executant into executing the said deed. Imagine a scenario where a terminally ill mother is looked after by one of her sons, and that son manipulates her into leaving all her property solely to him.

    Fraud

    That the executant had been defrauded into executing the deed by:
    - Being led to believe as true, something which the person deceiving knows is false.
    - Actively concealing a material fact
    - Making a promise without intention to perform
    - Any other deception or any act statutorily declared as fraudulent.

    Misrepresentation

    That the executant had given his consent on the basis of an innocent misrepresentation (without intent to deceive) of material facts by another party to the deed.

    Lack of good title

    That the transferor of the property was not the owner of it and had no right as such to transfer it. Property can be disposed of only by its actual owner.

    Lack of Contractual Capacity

    That the deed had been executed by a person incompetent to contract, such as being a minor, or of unsound mind.

    No third party can challenge a registered deed on these grounds during the lifetime of such party. Indian Courts hold registration in high esteem because of the inherent solemnity of the act, that is to say, registering a deed confers a certain degree of dignity to the transaction.

    The burden of proof lies on the person challenging the registered deed. It is important to note that it is very difficult to establish the grounds of rejection of a registered deed.
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  • Originally Posted by t_yash
    Dinesh, FYI, JP management communicated in the monthly meeting with KCBA that corporate office is taken over by lenders and gave 1st April deadline to JP to vacate. Lender details and amount is not disclosed.
    Apart from that all unsold inventory at WishTown, GN is also taken over....

    Not sure on the validity of the statement as its not on official records...

    Thank you for posting this information for the benefit of forum members, yash sir. I hope you are not attacked as being a troll, spreading false rumors and talking about impossible, theoretical scenarios like I have been.

    I don't know much about your personal risk tolerance and investment portfolio, nor do I have any inside information on JP outside of what has been shared publicly or in forums, but, just as Mr Poddarvaib suggested, if I were in your position, since you have been able to exert pressure and they are offering you a refund with 12% interest, I would take it and walk away. This is a much better deal than what the average JP buyer will likely end up with.

    From your posts, it seems you are a genuine end user and not an investor, but as you have yourself highlighted, JP just doesnt have the money to complete projects with the quality promised. Perhaps, it might make sense to consider cutting your losses and move on. Prices in rest of Noida have been stagnant too, so, with a 12% return, you should be able to buy a better RTM property now than when you decided to buy in JP.
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Please read note 36 of the standalone balance sheet and note 37 of the consolidated balance sheet Mr. Gandhi. Again thank you for your education. But I know this much.

    ICICI bank HAS NOT TAKEN IT OVER - please post the link where it says they have taken it over.

    And I know it will not sell for 3000 Crore it's exactly what I am saying.

    Mr dineshsays,
    I hope Mr t_yash;'s post is enough to satisfy you and you will also not start accusing him of being a troll, spreading false rumors or discussing impossible scenarios.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Thank you for posting this information for the benefit of forum members, yash sir. I hope you are not attacked as being a troll, spreading false rumors and talking about impossible, theoretical scenarios like I have been.

    I don't know much about your personal risk tolerance and investment portfolio, nor do I have any inside information on JP outside of what has been shared publicly or in forums, but, just as Mr Poddarvaib suggested, if I were in your position, since you have been able to exert pressure and they are offering you a refund with 12% interest, I would take it and walk away. This is a much better deal than what the average JP buyer will likely end up with.

    From your posts, it seems you are a genuine end user and not an investor, but as you have yourself highlighted, JP just doesnt have the money to complete projects with the quality promised. Perhaps, it might make sense to consider cutting your losses and move on. Prices in rest of Noida have been stagnant too, so, with a 12% return, you should be able to buy a better RTM property now than when you decided to buy in JP.


    Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Mr dineshsays,
    I hope Mr *t_yash ;'s post is enough to satisfy you and you will also not start accusing him of being a troll, spreading false rumors or discussing impossible scenarios.



    Mr. Gandhi,
    I am not attacked so far & moreover I don't care either.... I hope that suffice your doubts..

    I am an end-user like most of other members in KCBA.
    Taking 12% route is simpler as on paper however JP don't have the funds, FYI, JP have to pay ~15 CR to Ahluwalia contractor as of EO Feb, and struggling to pay even 50L monthly basis...

    Moreover we don't want to let the fight go so easily..... just because we are getting some monetary benefits.... Instead we will force JP to deliver our homes as per our expectations....
    AND WE WILL FOR SURE....

    Don't worry me & Dinesh know each other quite well... :-)
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  • Originally Posted by Bharatiya
    Banks can easily stop Registry. They can refuse to provide NOCs without which Registry will be impossible for buyers. They can file objection against Registrations to Noida authority that will cast shadow on whole WT. They can take Builder to Court and stop possession of Apartments.

    But Mr Gandhi says, Banks are just allowing everything to happen. And one day, if the time comes, Banks will go to court, kick out Buyers and take their apartments.

    To be fair, Banks may try to do that. Probability of this is 1 in Million.


    Mr Bharatiya,
    It seems either your reading comprehension skills are quite poor or you are intent upon misquoting me . Banks do not have the power to kick buyers out, but they do have the right to claim title on any mortgage they have if loans that were backed by the mortgage are defaulted on and go to courts to assert their right.

    Given the amount of money likely to be involved and the relatively low cost of hiring a seasoned lawyer, it would be criminally irresponsible of banks towards their own shareholders if they do not pursue their legal rights and RBI will probably censure them for doing so. You must be an expert in real estate bankruptcy law to be able to predict the outcome of a legal case as 1 in a million. I am not an expert and have no idea what legal strategy lenders and buyers will adopt, so cannot predict what the outcome will be. I think the odds are lower than 1 in 2, but definitely higher than 1 in a million.

    In any case, even if courts ultimately throw out all claims, it still means that the title of the properties will be under legal dispute for many years while the court cases are pending.

    For your information, NOCs are provided by banks who have lent to homeowners NOT by banks who have lent to JP and in any case NOC doesn't dilute any mortgage rights.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Mr Bharatiya,
    It seems either your reading comprehension skills are quite poor or you are intent upon misquoting me . Banks do not have the power to kick buyers out, but they do have the right to claim title on any mortgage they have if loans that were backed by the mortgage are defaulted on and go to courts to assert their right.

    Given the amount of money likely to be involved and the relatively low cost of hiring a seasoned lawyer, it would be criminally irresponsible of banks towards their own shareholders if they do not pursue their legal rights and RBI will probably censure them for doing so. You must be an expert in real estate bankruptcy law to be able to predict the outcome of a legal case as 1 in a million. I am not an expert and have no idea what legal strategy lenders and buyers will adopt, so cannot predict what the outcome will be. I think the odds are lower than 1 in 2, but definitely higher than 1 in a million.

    In any case, even if courts ultimately throw out all claims, it still means that the title of the properties will be under legal dispute for many years while the court cases are pending.

    For your information, NOCs are provided by banks who have lent to homeowners NOT by banks who have lent to JP and in any case NOC doesn't dilute any mortgage rights.


    Registered deed in name of sub lease do not confer right to lendor of lessor.

    Banks of lessor only have right to asset owned by it and sublease is not on lessor s books

    All those having registered sub lease can stay easy, the contention here is a misplaced bogey.

    Lawyers claim to be smart people but it is to be noted that law in India is based on precedence and not on some legal knowledge bearing smartie

    Moderator Ji , it is requested to stop this as the issue being raised in multiple threads and is creating spam like fatigue
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  • Dear t_yash;, is the clause pertaining to refund with 12% interest is standard one across all the WISHTOWN projects, if yes cn u please specify clause /para . dineshsays; n other senior members u too must hv information in this respect . When d buyers cn enforce/exercise the option.
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