What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    MeinSonu Bhai - I know you are way more knowledgable in this matter. But during preparing for a case our core association had asked how much time SC will take on appeal after NCDRC decision and the lawyer had cited that SC has improved drastically while dealing with cases and the pendency had improved a lot.

    If we just see this link http://www.livemint.com/Politics/960PSsufmphYSlzmkMvwPK/Supreme-Court-disposing-pending-cases-at-a-faster-rate.html

    While they are deciding 47000 cases every year the cases over 10 years are only 1200 or so - that is just 2% of pending cases (50000) and it is improving on a yearly basis.

    Also correct me - if a precedent is set on the Unitech case - (NCDRC ruled in favour of buyer, builder appealed to SC) - will the SC now not resolve these matters faster.

    Finally do you attest to PKGandhi's point that it will take crores to get justice - our lawyer was taking in mid k thousands.

    Mr dineshsays,

    I know it can be difficult to comprehend more than one idea at once, but please don't conflate and misquote me. The crores in cost and 12-15 years was in response to Mr bhuwan's question about a generic case in a consumer court ( not necessarily NCRDC) , not about this specific case.

    I have already congratulated those who won the case and wish them the best in being able to actually receive the damages that were awarded.
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  • Look dude - the entire context of this discussion is victory in NCDRC.

    Why would you go to State Consumer forums when you qualify for NCDRC.

    Since you have zilch knowledge in the matter - even if two or three people get together and their combined cost of homes is > 1 cr - they directly qualify to log a case in NCDRC. Very rarely in the modern Noida context will you find a case going to state commission.

    Now still if you want to nitpick - after the state commission - imagining a scenario were to exist - the builder goes to NCDRC and then to SC. So whichever way you look at it - NCDRC will only add a year or two - less looking at recent judgements

    So even this point of yours is false and inconsequential.

    Where are 12-15 years after state commission and crores of Rupees
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    MeinSonu Bhai - I know you are way more knowledgable in this matter. But during preparing for a case our core association had asked how much time SC will take on appeal after NCDRC decision and the lawyer had cited that SC has improved drastically while dealing with cases and the pendency had improved a lot.

    If we just see this link Supreme Court is disposing pending cases at a faster rate - Livemint

    While they are deciding 47000 cases every year the cases over 10 years are only 1200 or so - that is just 2% of pending cases (50000) and it is improving on a yearly basis.

    Also correct me - if a precedent is set on the Unitech case - (NCDRC ruled in favour of buyer, builder appealed to SC) - will the SC now not resolve these matters faster.

    Finally do you attest to PKGandhi's point that it will take crores to get justice - our lawyer was taking in mid k thousands.


    Dineshbhai I want to believe what your lawyer is saying, but as I said, SC is a lottery. Lots of extraneous factors go into play when you litigate and it is not possible for me to calculate the time with mathematical accuracy. That is what I hate about the whole litigation.

    I don't trust newspapers. I have nothing to say about the newspaper clipping that you shared.

    When we read about all those judgment in the newspapers, we see things such as SC said this or SC said that. You need to ask what is SC? SC is actually a bench, each bank comprising of atleast 2 or more judges sitting and deciding the matter. Now every bench has its own mind. Every bench thinks differently. Some are pro-poor and some pro-industry. Lot depend on these benches and you don't get to choose them. However, in my experience now a days more than a few SC judges sympathize with the cause of farmers, home buyers etc. in that order. Chances of us getting early disposal is thus very very high.

    I am not sure which judgment you are talking about vis-a-vis Unitech. give me the detail and I will be able to tell you whether it act as a precedent or not. Usually, SC is a court of record and all its judgment are precedents. As whether it will not resolve the matter faster, that's not how the doctrine of precedent work...you may get faster disposal if you get sympathetic bench supported by a skilled and diligent lawyer and not because you have a precedent in your favour. All litigants in the SC has one or more precedent in its favour.

    I don't read pkgandhi's post. They are too lengthy, too frequent and I don't have that much patience.

    There is no fixed fee. There is no guarantee that Crores will buy us justice from the SC. One thing guaranteed is that JP may spend lakhs per hearing in the SC hiring big shot lawyers...the question is that whether your lawyer would be able to withstand the pressure a big shot lawyer creates by his presence and face value in court? I am sure Judges will be looking to help you in your matters, but their hands will get tied if your lawyer stammers due to towering presence of these stalwarts and he fails to assist Court with right arguments/precedents.

    So if it is not too difficult for your guys, I would recommend that you assess your lawyer situation independently and if required, increase your budget a little bit to a few lakh and ask your lawyer to hire a decent senior advocate for important hearing. Lot of these SC senior lawyers are empathetic, and can appear for you on reduce fees. You just have to find right connection and be at the right place at the right time.

    Cheers and all the best.
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  • NCDRC is a small forum. Its orders are valuable when it comes to small issues. And in case of RE, if matters pertains to your personal property or other few properties at most. But NCDRC orders never work when it comes to entire projects where much bigger stakes are involved. Builder is never gonna pay huge penalties as the cost amplify because multiple home buyers are involved.

    Builder always take better option. Appealing in higher court to stop the payouts. When Court admits the petition/appeal of Builder. Its mostly accompanied by stay order against NCDRC decision (or of other forum/tribunal/lower court). Then case is decided on merit. No doubt builder use all tactics to win.

    Whenever you are taking a big builder to court or forum regarding a project where big stakes are involved. You should prepare to fight battles all the way to SC. And prepare for all kind of troubles.

    SC is not a lottery. our entire Justice system is a lottery. You take gamble of investing your time and money to fight legal battle. But our legal process is not fair and balanced. Its full of delays and errors and misjudgements. You take gamble that you will get justice despite all the risks.

    Case regarding 5 years of delay looks pretty clear cut in case of home buyers. But legal battle can be very different. Still, i think buyers do have great advantage in this case.

    I think Buyers should use this tactic. If JP cites financial constraints. Buyers should ask SC to constitute arbitrar tasked for liquidating unencumbered land Bank or any other liquid assets of JP. The money raised should be used for best interest of buyers for Project completion and paying penalties (all done through eskrow account monitored by SC).
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  • The interesting question is what happens if the SC does rule against JP and the lenders force JP into bankruptcy. Where exactly will the damages to be paid sit in the credit hierarchy ? Banks will obviously argue their claims are superior. Is there any precedent for a situation like this ?
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Look dude - the entire context of this discussion is victory in NCDRC.

    Why would you go to State Consumer forums when you qualify for NCDRC.

    Since you have zilch knowledge in the matter - even if two or three people get together and their combined cost of homes is > 1 cr - they directly qualify to log a case in NCDRC. Very rarely in the modern Noida context will you find a case going to state commission.

    Now still if you want to nitpick - after the state commission - imagining a scenario were to exist - the builder goes to NCDRC and then to SC. So whichever way you look at it - NCDRC will only add a year or two - less looking at recent judgements

    So even this point of yours is false and inconsequential.

    Where are 12-15 years after state commission and crores of Rupees

    Mr dineshsays,

    I know it is difficult for someone narrow-minded and self-important to imagine a context outside of his immediate concerns and I have learnt you do not have the ability to deal with any kind of abstraction, so I won't indulge you and waste my time responding to your puerile insults. Let me just say that I am not at all surprised like you became an easy bakra for JP and ended up parting with his and his family's money in return for the dreams JP was selling.
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  • My serious advice to JP buyers would be to forget about their few thousand ruppees lawyer and approach some stalwart like Mr Jethmalani or Mr Bhushan. With luck, they might agree to fight your case pro bono. If these stalwarts are arrayed on the other side, a lawyer who is promising to fight the case for a few thousand ruppees will lose even an open and shut case.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Mr dineshsays,

    I know it is difficult for someone narrow-minded and self-important to imagine a context outside of his immediate concerns and I have learnt you do not have the ability to deal with any kind of abstraction, so I won't indulge you and waste my time responding to your puerile insults. Let me just say that I am not at all surprised like you became an easy bakra for JP and ended up parting with his and his family's money in return for the dreams JP was selling.


    The context is defined by the very place you are posting in - this is the NOIDA forum of IREF, I don't need to conjure up first world fantasies

    As soon as you and your points are exposed - that second you divert the topic - I have not parted my money in the manner you say - I remind you - I have the keys to the house that I purchased that I happily call home

    Bakra :) - again you go abusing and making personal remarks
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  • .I think all of us should unite and fix a day to organize a mass protest against jaypee on this issue.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    zohaib sir,

    Gaurs still have plenty of businesses that are not yet a flop, but they have also been smart enough to move them to separate companies that might possibly survive when the RE house of cards comes down. Unless one can prove that money was taken out of RE business illegally, JP investors will not have recourse to private assets of the Gaurs.

    As I have been saying, lawyers are going to a make a killing in the whole situation.




    Noida is certainly the best place for RE specialist lawyers to be in nowadays :)

    I socially know a very well know lawyer in Delhi...Akhil...he is son of Ex minister kapil sibal...and they are making a killing nowadays....he is very expensive but has a great track record....

    The buyers have THEMSELVES landed in soup.....no one to be blamed

    Its NOT that one fine day Builder was doing everythigng Great and the next day he stopped eveything.....the signs were Crystal clear for months...how things will be with many builders...

    the buyers were either lazy or simply too much involved in their egos to take notice , etc

    Anyways....Things are bad...and its not getting better....

    For End user...bigger issues will crop up once possession given...

    Maintenance money is another pie builders are eyeing....just wait and watch
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  • I think all of Wishtown buyers either Aman, Kosmos, Klassic or Garden isles, everyone has to assemble at one point and jam the expressway, than only governments will listen to us, we can't just rely on Gaur families promises anymore.
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  • Its a good idea.
    No use of protest.
    Jam the noida exp way.
    With coverage of press
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  • Originally Posted by vaiby25
    I think all of Wishtown buyers either Aman, Kosmos, Klassic or Garden isles, everyone has to assemble at one point and jam the expressway, than only governments will listen to us, we can't just rely on Gaur families promises anymore.


    More the damage in protest, more you will be heard by Authorities. Remember Gujjar Andolan, Jat Andolan, Patel Andolan.......

    Mate, you all may have to shed your decency and hold the city to ransom. Nobody is interested to watch candle light march. Even media now a days are not interested. However, it is not possible with educated class and in projects where majority are investors and not end users
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  • Resorting to violent protests is a terrible idea. Media might get a masala story out of it, but no one who matters will care about 30 k middle and upper middle class families and investors. Best option is to take legal route , but that will be tough, because JP and their lenders have much better access to top legal talent.
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  • To all those who are self proclaiming freaking real estate prodigies, if you have the guts, put up your predictions:

    a) 6 months down the line
    b) 1 year down the line
    c) 1.5 years down the line.

    PS: Yes now your pants are on fire.
    2) and my predictions are already there

    Cheers
    Rahul
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