What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by Bala2107
    The situation now with jaypee and many other companies not just in RE but also in commodities, power etc. (completely solvent on paper but in dire distress for working capital) is a new thing in our economy. Its a new learning for our banks, for our industry. In some ways its unrpecedented. In the traditional economy, land used to be a very valuable asset and was cosidered the best collatral you can possibly have to secure your debts. All these now beleaguered companies own hundreds and thousands of acres of land. However, in an illiquid market, fungibilitty of land becomes almost zero. Banks (and RBI) realise that conundrum. nobody gains by destruction of corporate wealth in an economy, so banks will be foolish to force a solution (by sale, takeover or otherwise) in this situation, as there are multiple forces (lien holders) at play and they may not be able to recover even half their dues, and on top of that get tangled up in a legal mess that would take them decades to sort out. There are vultures who see an opportunity in this paradoxical situation of both the lender and the borrower, and they close in for the kill. The vultures include, potential buyers who wish to acquire distressed assets that they know can be converted into healthy ones with time and some capital infusion. Politically backed groups which can get regulatory or policy favours and revive broken industries. Strategic investors or consortiums who have the power to hold out get the most out of creating a distress and panic forcing banks to disinvest these assets for much lower valuations. our media is famously competent to work for these interests.

    Now the interesting thing to see is does the government and banks give in to these forces and write off the losses as cost of doing business or would they really play the role of strategic investors. This decision is not about financial wizardry, as much as its about regulatory backing and political will.

    In either case investors (people who have paid on the basis of the allotment of these properties) have a solid claim against the ultimate buyer who takes these distressed assets over. These liabilities will not just vanish. With so many cases piling up against Jaypee and court decisions for compensation coming in, these will all be passed on to the buyer "as is where is" basis. meaning they have to sort out this mess of delay penalties or interest, compensation etc. on top of principal amounts paid by home buyers.

    So its a situation where no one is getting their wish - jaypee wants to pay off, but they can't, banks want to sell off and recover but they can't, strategic investors (vultures) waiting to scavenge what is left over but they are wary of getting trapped.

    No solution is apparent at the moment which leaves it to Jaypee, as a reluctant owner waiting for better days to come.

    I still believe that Jaypee has a positive networth (on a notional valuation), otherwise banks wont be phoo..phoo ing around.

    Bala sir,

    In my opinion, the old crony capitalism paradigm is now broken and we will see a more drastic resolution to the impasse.
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  • Noida Eway is still not fully habitable , lots of land and unfinished projects... might take more than 10yrs for entire stretch from kalindi kunj to Pari Cicle to come alive.

    Even with new air port, distant areas on YEWay will be decently habitable after 25yrs. What appretiation !! In todays terms...

    Speculation has more or less stopped in noida market.

    There is too much suppy and very few end users ,, huge inventory with alll developers and virtually no takers.

    Most builders and investors and even usrs hav already burnt thier bums.
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  • Originally Posted by jollygood
    @dineshsays the market cap of 3500 odd crores for all the 3 listed companies reflects the reality on the ground. Also there are lot of loans by unlisted subsidiaries not reflecting on the primary balance sheet of the 3 listed cos.

    The situation is grim.

    If you adjust value of cross holdings, group market cap is 2000 crore.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    If you adjust value of cross holdings, group market cap is 2000 crore.

    @pkgandhi I agree but posted the actual figures for benefit of @dineshsays, so that is no squabbling over the same. The unreported loans availed by unlisted subsidiaries is a different ball game.
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  • Originally Posted by Bala2107
    The situation now with jaypee and many other companies not just in RE but also in commodities, power etc. (completely solvent on paper but in dire distress for working capital) is a new thing in our economy. Its a new learning for our banks, for our industry. In some ways its unrpecedented. In the traditional economy, land used to be a very valuable asset and was cosidered the best collatral you can possibly have to secure your debts. All these now beleaguered companies own hundreds and thousands of acres of land. However, in an illiquid market, fungibilitty of land becomes almost zero. Banks (and RBI) realise that conundrum. nobody gains by destruction of corporate wealth in an economy, so banks will be foolish to force a solution (by sale, takeover or otherwise) in this situation, as there are multiple forces (lien holders) at play and they may not be able to recover even half their dues, and on top of that get tangled up in a legal mess that would take them decades to sort out. There are vultures who see an opportunity in this paradoxical situation of both the lender and the borrower, and they close in for the kill. The vultures include, potential buyers who wish to acquire distressed assets that they know can be converted into healthy ones with time and some capital infusion. Politically backed groups which can get regulatory or policy favours and revive broken industries. Strategic investors or consortiums who have the power to hold out get the most out of creating a distress and panic forcing banks to disinvest these assets for much lower valuations. our media is famously competent to work for these interests.

    Now the interesting thing to see is does the government and banks give in to these forces and write off the losses as cost of doing business or would they really play the role of strategic investors. This decision is not about financial wizardry, as much as its about regulatory backing and political will.

    In either case investors (people who have paid on the basis of the allotment of these properties) have a solid claim against the ultimate buyer who takes these distressed assets over. These liabilities will not just vanish. With so many cases piling up against Jaypee and court decisions for compensation coming in, these will all be passed on to the buyer "as is where is" basis. meaning they have to sort out this mess of delay penalties or interest, compensation etc. on top of principal amounts paid by home buyers.

    So its a situation where no one is getting their wish - jaypee wants to pay off, but they can't, banks want to sell off and recover but they can't, strategic investors (vultures) waiting to scavenge what is left over but they are wary of getting trapped.

    No solution is apparent at the moment which leaves it to Jaypee, as a reluctant owner waiting for better days to come.

    I still believe that Jaypee has a positive networth (on a notional valuation), otherwise banks wont be phoo..phoo ing around.


    Good to see you back sir.

    Something i wanna add about NPA problem and specifically with RE sector and Land.

    Sir, RE projects and Land are good collateral in normal market conditions and healthy economy. What we are facing is collective failure of RE builders. Suppose a Bank like Axis Bank has collateral land of JP. In ideal condition it would like to liquidate NPA and salvage whatever it gets. But who should it sell to? Other builders are in same boat. Unitech, BPTP, Supertech, DLF, AP etc etc. They are also hard time surviving themselves. They cannot buy new assets and neither they have any cash left.

    So when Collateral cannot be sold. Its illiquid and hence useless. Big land banks, unfinished Apartments and Towers that were taken as collateral. These are now now very much ILLIQUID.

    Similar thing is happening in Infrastructure sector. Power sector is another example.

    Sir, what's your take on new Bankruptcy Bill? Isn't it best to put big NPA RE companies into forced Bankruptcy and liquidation or restructuring winding down?

    As far as Land Bank is concerned. Any unencumbered Land bank is still a valuable asset. But only suitable buyer in the market is State Govt. Yes. State Govt should deal with Banks to takeover land banks at low value on case by case basis. Then they will be sold and/or developed later in future when time is right.
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  • NATIONAL CONSUMER DISPUTES REDRESSAL COMMISSIONNEW DELHI CONSUMER CASE NO. 239 OF 2015 WITH
    IA/2408/2015,IA/2409/2015,IA/2966/2015,IA/6804/2015,IA/7955/2015,IA/7956/2015
    1. KNIGHTS COURT BUYERS ASSOCIATIONA-601,Express Green, Sector- 44, NoidaUttar Pradesh...........Complainant(s)Versus 1. JAIPRAKASH ASSOCIATES LTD.Jaypee Greens, Sector - 128,NoidaUttar Pradesh...........Opp.Party(s)
    BEFORE: HON'BLE MR. JUSTICE AJIT BHARIHOKE, PRESIDING MEMBER HON'BLE MRS. REKHA GUPTA, MEMBER
    For the Complainant :Mr. M.L. Lahoty, Sr. Advocate Assisted by Mr. P.K. Sharma, Advocate For the Opp.Party :Mr. Kumar Mihir, Advocate
    Dated : 19 May 2016 ORDEROpposite party has failed to file affidavit evidence despite of directions dated 8th December, 2015. Learned counsel for the opposite party seeks further time to file affidavit evidence. Matter is adjourned, subject to cost of Rs.10,000/- to be deposited by the opposite party with “Consumer Legal Aid Account-NCDRC” within four weeks. Affidavit evidence be filed within six weeks with advance copy to learned counsel for the complainant.
    Matter may now be listed for final disposal on 9.3.2017. Parties to file short synopsis of their arguments not exceeding 3 to 4 pages with cross references and pagination within four weeks prior to the date of hearing with advance copy to each other. It is made clear that in the event of opposite party failing to file affidavit evidence within the stipulated time their right to file affidavit evidence shall stand closed.
    ......................JAJIT BHARIHOKEPRESIDING MEMBER......................REKHA GUPTAMEMBER
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  • Yash, JP have been screwing all their customers. You are giving it back to them and they fully deserve it. Congratulations. This order even though it is just a date means they will have to come up with something substantial in the next hearing. Only dampener is the long interim period. They should have given JP a max of 8 weeks but here they got almost 10 months.
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  • Originally Posted by Poddarvaib
    Yash, JP have been screwing all their customers. You are giving it back to them and they fully deserve it. Congratulations. This order even though it is just a date means they will have to come up with something substantial in the next hearing. Only dampener is the long interim period. They should have given JP a max of 8 weeks but here they got almost 10 months.



    Please go through again, NCDRC gave only 6 weeks to submit the evidence otherwise not accepted.
    Final hearing date is due on 9th march 2017, we were expecting somewhere in Nov/Dec 2016 timeframe, however we have to have patience in court proceedings.... we know in the end we will come out as winner....

    Then we have to take our fight for Justice to SC.
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  • Just wondering,

    1) No 1 really talked about jaypees stand in this months protest? whats the matter?

    2) and a very important point, theres a hue and cry about RERA implementation, my question to investors is:

    would you stick to standards while reselling:

    a) I know a guy, he asked me 1 thing today, hes looking for an apartment and he was telling me that jaypee resellers are still asking for car park charges, club membership charges and various other charges while the new trend is all inclusive price, I think there has to be a consistency.

    b) and I suggested him that when A builder is selling 1000 sq feet loading is 350 sq feet and at the same time when builder B is selling 1000 sq feet loading is 450 sq feet, my advice to him was compute the carpet area of the property and then multiply with the asking amount ALL INCLUSIVE(and thats set, thats the price of the apartment period), just to make sure you dont have to keep changing scales.

    -- BSP prices
    -- Car parking charges
    -- CLUB membership(club is nowhere to be seen)
    -- look at the number of goodies offered these days.

    My advice to all the people who are buying in resale to stick to these parameters and when every investor is talking about RERA, its time for self introspection or rather hold your property.

    Cheers
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  • Originally Posted by rahk2012
    Just wondering,

    1) No 1 really talked about jaypees stand in this months protest? whats the matter?

    2) and a very important point, theres a hue and cry about RERA implementation, my question to investors is:

    would you stick to standards while reselling:

    a) I know a guy, he asked me 1 thing today, hes looking for an apartment and he was telling me that jaypee resellers are still asking for car park charges, club membership charges and various other charges while the new trend is all inclusive price, I think there has to be a consistency.

    b) and I suggested him that when A builder is selling 1000 sq feet loading is 350 sq feet and at the same time when builder B is selling 1000 sq feet loading is 450 sq feet, my advice to him was compute the carpet area of the property and then multiply with the asking amount ALL INCLUSIVE(and thats set, thats the price of the apartment period), just to make sure you dont have to keep changing scales.

    -- BSP prices
    -- Car parking charges
    -- CLUB membership(club is nowhere to be seen)
    -- look at the number of goodies offered these days.

    My advice to all the people who are buying in resale to stick to these parameters and when every investor is talking about RERA, its time for self introspection or rather hold your property.

    Cheers



    The JP posters are mostly stuck investors who don't want the truth about the reality of JP to be widely known, so I doubt anyone will post details of recent protes.

    Also, one member had posted that banks have stopped disbursements on even approved loans at JP. If there were genuine end users here, this would be w huge issue for them, but the investors and agents have quickly brushed this under the carpet.
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    Rahul ji,

    The JP posters are mostly stuck investors who don't want the truth about the reality of JP to be widely known, so I doubt anyone will post details of recent protes.

    Also, one member had posted that banks have stopped disbursements on even approved loans at JP. If there were genuine end users here, this would be w huge issue for them, but the investors and agents have quickly brushed this under the carpet.


    Mate,

    absolutely true, I am under impression that some people do discussions to put the uncomfortable posts under the wraps.

    Cheers
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  • Originally Posted by rahk2012
    some people do discussions to put the uncomfortable posts under the wraps.

    Cheers


    they r agents and r getting paid for this

    but now a days buyers r also smart and not getting trapped.
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  • Originally Posted by flatowner2
    they r agents and r getting paid for this

    but now a days buyers r also smart and not getting trapped.

    That is the beauty of social media and forums like this. Thanks to the information sharing, even NRIs sitting thousands of miles away can be as well or even better informed than the agents who visit the projects everyday as part of their business.
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  • Thats normal on this forum...real issues...no one answers

    some gentleman posted a query which was VERY APT AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND SERIOUS ISSUE

    That even some Private banks has STOPPED paying the emi for loans

    and still NO JAYPEE "SPECIALIST" answered him or discussed that in detail....

    But if you post One line that Jaypee park didnt look as good as it should be

    within an hour You will be flooded with 10 pictures from all angles...or probably even drones....showing jaypee parks

    :)



    PS: Latest Kaam on this forum and facebook pages is to make "RWAs" and plans to take over crores of maintenance .....Aaagey aagey dekho hota hai kya.,.....

    lots of groups have sensed the business possibilities of making RWA and proclaimiing themselves to be Presidents and secreteries
    profits are huge.....much more anyone can imagine....and people are falling like pins...thinking ki hum peechey se support karengey and pay a nominal fee and this RWA will do running around and get our work done from Lawyers and Builders

    What a joke !!!!
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  • Originally Posted by zohaib2012
    Thats normal on this forum...real issues...no one answers

    some gentleman posted a query which was VERY APT AND EXTREMELY IMPORTANT AND SERIOUS ISSUE

    That even some Private banks has STOPPED paying the emi for loans

    and still NO JAYPEE "SPECIALIST" answered him or discussed that in detail....

    But if you post One line that Jaypee park didnt look as good as it should be

    within an hour You will be flooded with 10 pictures from all angles...or probably even drones....showing jaypee parks

    :)



    PS: Latest Kaam on this forum and facebook pages is to make "RWAs" and plans to take over crores of maintenance .....Aaagey aagey dekho hota hai kya.,.....

    lots of groups have sensed the business possibilities of making RWA and proclaimiing themselves to be Presidents and secreteries
    profits are huge.....much more anyone can imagine....and people are falling like pins...thinking ki hum peechey se support karengey and pay a nominal fee and this RWA will do running around and get our work done from Lawyers and Builders

    What a joke !!!!

    Lol Zohaib sir, some of these people who have foolishly handed over their and their families' hard earned money after looking at pictures of golf course in brochures are not posting advice on what assets JP group has and how Gaurs should be running their business. If it weren't so sad, it would be hilarious.
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