What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by Truenity


    And jp does not have to come out of the mess for the lenders to be paid. The lenders can just sell off whatever assets they can, get their money back and leave the mess behind, which is exactly what they are trying to do by selling off the best operating assets.


    Its not so easy like u said... JP defaulted approx 4.5k CR as on last year... against this they have already sold assets worth approx 23k CR this year... enough to survive for a few more years....
    There is no need to sell anything more right now... they need to consolidate for 3-4 quarters after completion of this years disinvestments and then take a call.
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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan


    Its not so easy like u said... JP defaulted approx 4.5k CR as on last year... against this they have already sold assets worth approx 23k CR this year... enough to survive for a few more years....
    There is no need to sell anything more right now... they need to consolidate for 3-4 quarters after completion of this years disinvestments and then take a call.


    Well, sorry for saying so, but it seems you have absolutely no idea how things work. The assets they have sold already have loans attached to them and jp is only getting rid of those loans and not getting a single paisa in cash. The default amount is cash that jp needed to pay in interest and principal repayments due immediately. Since jp did not receive any cash from those asset sales , it will still be in default on that amount.
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  • There is gross misunderstanding by some people about JP's asset sale. This money does not belong to JP and JP is not getting a penny from these sales. All this money is going in the coffers of creditors.

    Forget about 23000 crore, JP is having very hard time just to raise 350 crore to start construction in pending WT.
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  • Originally Posted by Bharatiya
    There is gross misunderstanding by some people about JP's asset sale. This money does not belong to JP and JP is not getting a penny from these sales. All this money is going in the coffers of creditors.

    Forget about 23000 crore, JP is having very hard time just to raise 350 crore to start construction in pending WT.


    According to post or one member imperialnoid they are providing lowest possible quality finish even in their premium apartments and even unfinished apartments because some contractors have run away as they were not paid.
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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan
    How is it BAD news ? Ask urself the question why did they invest ? if they are so mean they will definitely not throw their money down the drain!!!
    Ans-- As per their analysis this investment in JP can provide very good returns in short term.
    ok but How ?
    Ans-- Clearly they also believe issue with JP is more of cash flow and if they put adequate amount of liquidity with the company then they can walk off with upto 100% returns on their investment in next 2 years.

    I had heard this news sometime back (2- 3 months) that a foreign fund ( from EAST ) is looking to invest in JP.. may be this is the one. If this is true, in my opinion cash flow problems of JP will be resolved. This will lead to increase in prices accross all JP properties.


    Originally Posted by bhuwan


    Why did they buy cheap ? They are not fools ... one stay order from court and whtever u plan w.r.t. aggressive liquadation gets doomed.
    If i buy today something in JP cheap ! Am i not investing in JP ?

    these funds have only one rule ... to make profit ... if it means they need to add some more liquidity into JP so be it... in todays scenario this is the only way for jaypee to come out of this mess and pay back to all lenders.
    Wait out couple of months and you will see the difference on ground.


    brother, SSG has not invested in Jaypee or added any liquidity. Infact, they are doing quite the opposite. They have bought the debt collection rights from Standard Chartered Bank and are now going to extract whatever they can from Jaypee to make their money back. Sometimes these funds take management control before dismantling the company and selling whatever they can.

    Assuming the bank had give 100 rupees loan to Jaypee, SSG has paid 40 rupees to the bank and taken the rights. Now their aim is to extract anything more than 40 bucks from Jaypee by confiscating their assets and selling them. They don't care if they sell one of Jaypee's assets worth 200 rupees for 50 rupees. By selling anything for 50 rupees, they will make a profit of 25% on their investment of 40 rupees. 20-25% returns is what most of these vulture funds aim for. They are just glorified debt collection agents who are not afraid to get their hands dirty.

    Also, funds like SSG don't care if other lenders/contractors/customers get their money back. They will extract their pound of flesh and go back to Hong Kong.
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  • Originally Posted by youngmoney




    brother, SSG has not invested in Jaypee or added any liquidity. Infact, they are doing quite the opposite. They have bought the debt collection rights from Standard Chartered Bank and are now going to extract whatever they can from Jaypee to make their money back. Sometimes these funds take management control before dismantling the company and selling whatever they can.

    Assuming the bank had give 100 rupees loan to Jaypee, SSG has paid 40 rupees to the bank and take the rights. Now their aim is to extract anything more than 40 bucks from Jaypee by confiscating their assets and selling them. They don't care if they sell one of Jaypee's assets worth 200 rupees for 50 rupees. By selling anything for 50 rupees, they will make a profit of 25% on their investment of 40 rupees. 20-25% returns is what most of these vulture funds aim for. They are just glorified debt collection agents who are not afraid to get their hands dirty.

    Also, funds like SSG don't care if other lenders/contractors/customers get their money back. They will extract their pound of flesh and go back to Hong Kong.


    Also, it is important to note that the most they will get back is 100. So they have no incentive at all to sell something for more than 100 even if it is worth 1000.
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  • Wow !!! Seems this SSG has got some special powers because they are foreign fund !!! And they can act independently on their own without consulting & caring for all other lenders mostly indian banks....
    Crazy stuff !!! Carry on bashers ... Judgement ( dooms ) day is around ... soon wishtown will be burried 1000ft below sea level.
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  • Lets not mock or exaggerate the concern here . My takeaway will be that StanC has officially moved its loan from Non-performing to Non- Recoverable, selling it to a loan recovery fund, clearly highlighting how deep the issue with JP is. If a bank has no hopes of recovering its money, I wonder what are the chances for home buyers ? JP might not be but homebuyer's money will surely be buried forever

    JP is a sinking ship, being in a complex and large sector like RE, they will sink slowly but surely. There might be few deliveries here and there in projects already close to completion, but that like that last bright flame of dying out lamp



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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan
    ...And they can act independently on their own without consulting & caring for all other lenders mostly indian banks....


    Yes they can. Instead of wasting your time on writing sarcastic posts, maybe you should brush up your finance knowledge. Your last few posts on this thread are full of inaccuracies, misleading information, and a general disdain for anyone who has anything to say against Jaypee. Looks like you are too high on Hopium to see the reality.

    Standard Chartered Bank has given up hope of recovering anything from Jaypee. Looks like you are more informed and financially savvy than all their analysts and bankers combined.
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  • CCI orders probe against Jaypee group in majority orders Competition Commission has ordered probe against Jaiprakash Associates through majority orders in two separate cases involving real estate projects in the national capital region for alleged abuse of dominant market position and imposition of “unfair” conditions on buyers.

    In both the cases, two members of the Competition Commission of India (CCI) have given their dissent notes while opining that the company did not held a dominant position in the relevant market and “no case is made out” against it.

    In the first case, four members of CCI have said in their majority order that prima facie it appeared that certain clauses in the application form for booking of apartment at ‘Crescent Court’ project of Jaypee Greens in Greater Noida were “unfair, onerous, one-sided and tilted favourably towards the opposite party (the company) and call for a detailed investigation.”

    “Accordingly, the Commission holds that prima facie the opposite party appears to have contravened the provisions of Section 4 of the Act,” the four-member order said, while directing the Director General to conduct an investigation and complete it within 60 days. This section relates to abuse of dominant market position.

    However, two other members of CCI have given a dissent order for this case, while referring to an earlier order by the regulator wherein it had closed the matters against Jaiprakash Associates by holding the company “to be not dominant in the relevant market”.

    In the second case, concerning booking of an apartment in KUBE project of Jaypee Greens in Noida, the majority order signed by CCI Chairman D K Sikri and four other members have ordered a probe by the DG -- the investigating arm of the regulator -- for alleged abuse of dominant market position and imposition of “unfair” conditions.

    In this case also, two CCI members have given a dissent order while observing that the company was declared “to be not dominant in the relevant market” in an earlier case.

    CCI had earlier probed Jaiprakash Associates in other matters related to unfair trade practices in the real estate market, after which two members had ordered Rs 666 crore fine on JP Associates, but was overruled by the Chairman and other members of the regulatory body.

    After looking into the latest complaints, the majority members said they are of a “prima facie opinion” that Jaiprakash Associates is in the dominant position.

    Accordingly, CCI has asked the DG to investigate the matter.

    http://www.hindustantimes.com/noida/cci-orders-probe-against-jaypee-group-in-two-separate-cases/story-4taEwutJjtaEnprVQuVaTI.html
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  • Originally Posted by polo1234
    StanC has officially moved its loan from Non-performing to Non- Recoverable, selling it to a loan recovery fund.

    As per regulatory practice or otherwise Banks need to keep their official books clean, from time to time they have to mark NPA's and losses... its a normal practice depending on which geographical regulations the particular bank is following.
    Upto the point anything is trading ... it is not junk.
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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan
    Wow !!! Seems this SSG has got some special powers because they are foreign fund !!! And they can act independently on their own without consulting & caring for all other lenders mostly indian banks....
    Crazy stuff !!! Carry on bashers ... Judgement ( dooms ) day is around ... soon wishtown will be burried 1000ft below sea level.


    Friend, not only SSG but any single individual has the right to independent legal course to protect his own interests. SSG is not a bank . it is a vulture fund that specialises in recovering money from distressed assets. It will have very different aims , tactics and constraints than Indian banks and so will obviously pursue a very different strategy.
    Indian banks have lent not only to jp but also to customers who bought houses from jp. They will not like to take steps that recover their money from jp but makes the customers bAnkrupt . they also have to worry about public image. So they can't openly take steps which are explicitly forcing jp to abandon wishtown. SSG has no such compulsions. They are a recovery agent and will get their money back by hook or by crook. So yes their introduction into the scene will change the shape of the legal battle for recovery of funds.
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  • Originally Posted by Truenity


    Friend, not only SSG but any single individual has the right to independent legal course to protect his own interests. SSG is not a bank . it is a vulture fund that specialises in recovering money from distressed assets. It will have very different aims , tactics and constraints than Indian banks and so will obviously pursue a very different strategy.
    Indian banks have lent not only to jp but also to customers who bought houses from jp. They will not like to take steps that recover their money from jp but makes the customers bAnkrupt . they also have to worry about public image. So they can't openly take steps which are explicitly forcing jp to abandon wishtown. SSG has no such compulsions. They are a recovery agent and will get their money back by hook or by crook. So yes their introduction into the scene will change the shape of the legal battle for recovery of funds.


    All lenders have to follow RBI guidelines inorder to recover their money... there is no SECOND way..

    can u state the law or regulation which SSG can / will invoke which current banks have not used yet ?
    there is no hook and crook method ! JP is only liable to pay the EMI to keep their accounts current.
    In ur fanciful world r u assuming SSG will sit in meeting room with Rampuri Chaku and Gaurs will sell everything like chickens... utter nonsense !!!!



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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan


    All lenders have to follow RBI guidelines inorder to recover their money... there is no SECOND way..

    can u state the law or regulation which SSG can / will invoke which current banks have not used yet ?
    there is no hook and crook method ! JP is only liable to pay the EMI to keep their accounts current.
    In ur fanciful world r u assuming SSG will sit in meeting room with Rampuri Chaku and Gaurs will sell everything like chickens... utter nonsense !!!!





    Friend, SSG has bought loans which are already in default and where JP is legally liable to repay principal on demand. For your information, corporate lending is not structured in the form of EMIs but regular interest payments and then a principal repayment at maturity. So, yes , SSG can and will demand repayment of entire defaulted loan. This will have a cascading effect on Indian banks too, who will be forced to act more aggressively. Otherwise SSG will just walk away with all the malai and they will be left with nothing.
    Many legal options are available, like Securitisation and Reconstruction of Financial Assets and Enforcement of Security Interest Act and relevant sections of Indian penal code.
    As for gaurs, less said the better. Mr sameer gaur is already out.The equivalent of rampuri chaku will be chidambram and jethmalani and the threat of sending to jail.
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  • By the way, SSG is not regulated by RBI and not governed by any of their guidelines. That is why this is a game changer. Even for Indian banks, RBI does not prohibit banks from taking more aggressive action than guidelines suggest. The guidelines are mostly meant to ensure that banks are not too lenient to defaulters and recognize losses when they occur. For example, sbi has already been conservative and recognized jp as an nap even though they were not required to by RBI guidelines after other banks invoked SDR provisions. RBI did not prohibit them from doing that. In fact RBI would prefer banks to take more aggressive action like SSG, but bAnks are scared of recognizing losses because they don't have the capital buffer to absorb them.
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