What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by gpsdnet
    By when is Jaypee expected to start handing over their 1st project ?


    Hi - the reps from the Jaypee Yahoo Group had met up Jaypee management yesterday and the latest update is that for 6 blocks of PC, Jaypee will approach NA to approve the completion certificate so handover can begin before the end of the year

    So to answer ur question - if Jaypee does not have an LB kind of issue with NA, we will see first handovers before the end of the year

    Technically though - a lot of the plots have already been handed over but I don't think you meant that
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  • Originally Posted by prakashjh24
    a qn for all jaypee followers pls -
    ..With the increasing FAR left R & Centre isnt it unfair on Jaypee's part to keep launching new projects one after another every nook n corner..How are we tracking on how much FAR was promised and how much being used as the project seems to be getting densed with each new launch apart from the Intergrated township delivery being pushed by another 4 easy years with each project being launched...How much is the total planned FAR by the way?

    PS - I plan to invest in JP golf facing projects a year or two down the line when the time is right for cherry pickin..But not sure how much green will be left by then...was looking at the layout and noted bloody constructing in midst of greens...WTH


    Prakash bhai - do you really expect a builder to not utilize his available FAR. However to be fair to Jaypee - it has progressively launched lower towers than they had advertised in their model. Name me one project that wasn't there already in their model for the last few years that has been launched - if anything recent launches at 20-25 floors are much less than the model which showed 50 floor towers. People can keep moaning about new launches but I will say its poor homework/not the right questions asked and a little naivety to not expect nearby launches especially when the model / site plan clearly outlines all the projects. How do you expect a proper township to come up if the builder does not raise enough cash and maintain the cash flow to fund something as expensive as this. Not trying to defend Jaypee here - they really screwed around by delaying handovers to this degree for which they should be held 100% accountable for. They are atleast paying some money for delays which is much more than can be said for builders in this area

    The green is 35 acres for the 9 hole course and 105 acres for the 18 hole course - that will not change.

    Each project utilises a different FAR though if you want to know an aggregate average FAR - I doubt even Jaypee would know yet as the final projects are still in the drawing board yet to be launched

    The plots in the GC while not ideal again have been advertised since the beginning and were the first infact to be given possession for - and have been massive / quick money spinners for Jaypee as well as the investors

    This is just my opinion!
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  • Awesome reply..
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Prakash bhai - do you really expect a builder to not utilize his available FAR. However to be fair to Jaypee - it has progressively launched lower towers than they had advertised in their model. Name me one project that wasn't there already in their model for the last few years that has been launched - if anything recent launches at 20-25 floors are much less than the model which showed 50 floor towers. People can keep moaning about new launches but I will say its poor homework/not the right questions asked and a little naivety to not expect nearby launches especially when the model / site plan clearly outlines all the projects. How do you expect a proper township to come up if the builder does not raise enough cash and maintain the cash flow to fund something as expensive as this. Not trying to defend Jaypee here - they really screwed around by delaying handovers to this degree for which they should be held 100% accountable for. They are atleast paying some money for delays which is much more than can be said for builders in this area

    The green is 35 acres for the 9 hole course and 105 acres for the 18 hole course - that will not change.

    Each project utilises a different FAR though if you want to know an aggregate average FAR - I doubt even Jaypee would know yet as the final projects are still in the drawing board yet to be launched

    The plots in the GC while not ideal again have been advertised since the beginning and were the first infact to be given possession for - and have been massive / quick money spinners for Jaypee as well as the investors

    This is just my opinion!


    Dinesh ji...thanks for the response...my 2 cents below -

    1. In an integrated township individual FAR is of no value...from what i understand from your comments is that JP will utilise max permissible till it obtains the completion from NA...So if the last of the project is delivered 6-7 yrs down the line the FAR as of date will be used which will be atleast 3.5 given that FAR in Noida/ GN will shortly be enhanced...

    2. So while someone who booked 5 yrs back in the first project lets say PC or Imperial when the given FAR was 2 or something, now whenever, these towers are delivered the poor chaps will bear the brunt of the extra density that the township would have got...thats not fair...is it?

    3. The real suffering will be for the plot owners in gc or kp2/ kp1...while they would be offered the FAR as per the booking day norm they wont be able to utilise the extra FAR which NA has enhanced in the last couple of years...For eg today one is allowed to construct complete basement+Stilt (very much usable for office/ parking/ living etc)+ 3 complete floors in the Noida auth plots,,,IMO, developer very smartly would utilise the extra FAR in constructing high rises without passing any benefit to the plot owners..If my understanding is right, thats not fair on part of JP...

    4. While JP wouldnt have increased the number of projects they wd have definitely increased the floors in each of the new projects which wd be extra burden on the integ township///

    Having said all of this, I am a big fan of Jaypee's vision and I still reckon it will be worthwhile investing in GC properties once they start delivering possession in abt 2 yrs from now.....the over supply will keep a check on the prices to my understanding...
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  • Originally Posted by prakashjh24
    Dinesh ji...thanks for the response...my 2 cents below -

    1. In an integrated township individual FAR is of no value...from what i understand from your comments is that JP will utilise max permissible till it obtains the completion from NA...So if the last of the project is delivered 6-7 yrs down the line the FAR as of date will be used which will be atleast 3.5 given that FAR in Noida/ GN will shortly be enhanced...

    I actually differ here - Individual project FAR is of immense importance here - the GC areas for example use a lesser FAR and are 50-75% less denser than say the non GC areas. That is THE principle reason of why these projects command at times 3-4 TIMES the value of the non GC areas (apart from reasons of GC views, slightly better location, bigger units, better specs)

    The point I made was that you cannot expect a builder to not utilse his FAR. However Jaypee will conciously use less FAR - in no way I am suggesting that the current FAR WILL be used. I said that the average aggregate FAR will not be known as some of the projects are in the drawing board. If the case was to use ALL FAR available then if you had a GC and plots and lot of low rises on one hand (averaging .3-.4 utilisatio of max FAR usable) then Kosmos and Klassic areas would have been super-dense 50 floor towers - which is not the case. Further - I dont know the legality but I think you need to have correct maximum FARs across each pocket or sector (WT has 5 sectors - I doubt you can have a case of 1/2 usage of FAR in 1 sector 2x usage of FAR in the 2nd sector to balance things)

    2. So while someone who booked 5 yrs back in the first project lets say PC or Imperial when the given FAR was 2 or something, now whenever, these towers are delivered the poor chaps will bear the brunt of the extra density that the township would have got...thats not fair...is it?

    I think you interpreted my answer wrongly, perhaps I put it wrongly in the first place (sorry if I did). But I dont think this is valid - with only 3-4 projects to be launched, I doubt we will all of a sudden see 75 floor ultradense towers to use the maximum FAR

    3. The real suffering will be for the plot owners in gc or kp2/ kp1...while they would be offered the FAR as per the booking day norm they wont be able to utilise the extra FAR which NA has enhanced in the last couple of years...For eg today one is allowed to construct complete basement+Stilt (very much usable for office/ parking/ living etc)+ 3 complete floors in the Noida auth plots,,,IMO, developer very smartly would utilise the extra FAR in constructing high rises without passing any benefit to the plot owners..If my understanding is right, thats not fair on part of JP...

    I 'think' and you can confirm in the Jaypee Plots thread (Ved Sir, JPKP2 Plot Sir - if you are reading, can you confirm) that there is talk of passing exactly the FAR in NA sectors to these plots. Personally while a lot of people rejoice - I personally believe this will screw things up a bit in terms of crowding (and the fact that service lanes etc were not designed for this load) - but obviously the investors are quite happy

    4. While JP wouldnt have increased the number of projects they wd have definitely increased the floors in each of the new projects which wd be extra burden on the integ township///

    Not been the case so far and if you see the model vs reality on the ground - it is the exact OPPOSITE - the model mentioned 50-75 story towers where you see 20-25 story towers - Kristal and Kasablanca and Pebble Court are the most recent examples. There have been very minor variations upwards like Kalypso increased from 23 - 25 stories but that is less from a FAR revision standpoint

    Having said all of this, I am a big fan of Jaypee's vision and I still reckon it will be worthwhile investing in GC properties once they start delivering possession in abt 2 yrs from now.....the over supply will keep a check on the prices to my understanding...

    Great Prakash Bhai - would love for you to join the family, but do keep checking this - as you yourself mentioned in a recent post that luxury properties have less supply side overhang and are on a roll.



    Prakash Bhai - I've put in some further thoughts inline. (On a side topic, Bro - dont use 'ji' please with my name, I am a guy in the mid 30s, why do you want me to feel like an old man)
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  • Individual project FAR is a slightly tricky issue. While you can argue that its of importance because the density will be low in premium subsections, it is also very easy to forget that in an integrated township with shared infrastructure, higher than planned density in one MIG sub section can affect HIG units too.
    So, in my most humble opinion :-) if JP ends up abusing FAR, it IS going to adversely impact the imperials and the pebbles and everybody else. However, as dinesh says, this possibility is highly unlikely.
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  • FAR :

    I happened to visit Jaypee Office last Sat'day and inquired about FAR of Plots.

    Answer: Present: 1.75. Going to be 2.25...may take a few months for formal announcement. These figures of 1.75 and 2.25 are same for NA plots as much as for WT...according to him.
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  • Originally Posted by VedKapoor
    FAR :

    I happened to visit Jaypee Office last Sat'day and inquired about FAR of Plots.

    Answer: Present: 1.75. Going to be 2.25...may take a few months for formal announcement. These figures of 1.75 and 2.25 are same for NA plots as much as for WT...according to him.




    Boss,

    Here a guy Prakash/Parkash/Parakash who claims to be far lower FAR for Jp plots opposite of your information, please ask him about his source and intention.
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  • Again some concerns on the balance sheet:
    Jaiprakash Associates shares tank 7% on debt concerns - NDTVProfit.com

    Jaypee is raising $200mn more money thru FCCB
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  • Request members to guide in purchasing a property in Jaypee greens noida.

    Budget is between 55-60 lakhs.
    Looking for Fresh as my share can be max 10 lakhs and rest being financed. (thus resale options ruled out due to colour component).
    Can hold it for 3-5 years or perhaps more.
    Liked KPA but only getting Top floors in Fresh from Jaypee. BSP 3600 - less 3.5% discount + Other charges.
    Can members suggest about cons and Pros (if any) for top floor in KPA. Understand it's very hard to sell top floors in resale.

    Klassic ONGC (KNG) getting few options (1550) in 1/2 floors below top floor but didn't like it's location.

    Also pl suggest any other options.
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  • Fresh ke liye pm pawankp80.. He is the most updated guy for JPWT..
    Regards
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  • Jaiprakash Associates: Why shares have fallen to 2-month low

    With slowing economy, It will not be easy to service High debt. Depressing to see JP raising FCCB($150M) to service its debt payment ($355M) due on Sep 12th, 2012. Classic debt trap issue - udhar le kar - udhar chuka rahein hain.

    Financials are worsening rapidly for JP. Expect more delays.


    Jaiprakash Associates shares plunged 9 per cent to a two-month low in a weak Mumbai market Wednesday. The cement maker was the top loser on the 50-share Nifty index.

    Here are the reasons behind the sharp decline in Jaiprakash Associates shares.

    1) Debt worries: Jaiprakash Associates' consolidated net debt rose to Rs. 50,300 crore at the end of 2011-12, 34 per cent higher from Rs. 37,500 crore in 2010-11. The net debt to equity stands at 4.4-times, Goldman Sachs said citing the company's annual report.

    2) Higher interest costs: High debt levels would result in interest coverage remaining close to 1.5-times over FY12-15E despite EBIT doubling over the same period, Goldman added.

    3) Fresh FCCB to retire old debt: Jaiprakash on Tuesday sold its 5-year foreign currency convertible bonds at a 5.75 percent semi-annual coupon and a conversion price of Rs. 77.50, a 10 percent premium to its closing price on Wednesday. It had launched the convertible bonds issue late on Tuesday with an aim to raise up to $200 million. The fresh FCCBs would be used, in part, to finance it’s nearly $355 million in convertible bonds maturing on September 12.

    4) Higher dilution: Despite a 34.5 percent gain this year, Jaiprakash shares are trading well below the conversion price of Rs. 165.17 a share. Only 1.13 per cent FCCBs were converted till March 31, 2012. Besides, the company has already bought 10.26 per cent of the outstanding FCCBs. Jaiprakash will have to issue 86,595,662 shares upon conversion, resulting in a potential dilution of a little over 4 per cent.

    5) Brokerage downgrades: Goldman Sachs had retained its "sell" rating on the stock. "In our view, monetization of assets would be the key in meeting funding requirements of the business," Goldman said,

    (With inputs from Thomson Reuters)
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Hi Bro

    However - you have to bear in mind that since these are fundamentally better than ATS - they will at a point overtake ATS in its pricing, when this happens is a little bit of guesswork and conjecture, but it WILL happen (unless these builders really screw things up). Your move has to be nicely timed that you get the max out of sector 93 A and buy into one of these apartments just before the tables start turning

    All the best!


    Dinesh,

    What would be the max for Sector 93A, before Jaypee comes in ... what if one gets a Good offer now ... at what price should one sell out, and take a jump ?
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  • Originally Posted by gpsdnet
    Dinesh,

    What would be the max for Sector 93A, before Jaypee comes in ... what if one gets a Good offer now ... at what price should one sell out, and take a jump ?



    Bro - I have to apologize I cant say as I dont follow the pricing in Sector 93A. Its already too expensive for me - potentially Prakash Bhai or other seasoned folks can suggest better

    But I understand it is a very tricky call when Jaypee GC properties do take off vs the good properties of 93A

    It will happen though - welcome peoples thoughts on this

    What I can say is that around mid 2013 when Kalypso gets to structure complete and Imperial is near handover and PC already handed over, the Golf course potentially functional we should see some serious spurts in Jaypee GC properties - but bro it may, maynot happen that way
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