What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Originally Posted by bhuwan
    So what should customers do ?


    Many people on this forum had been advising people to get out of and stay away from JP projects. For those who have not followed this advice, it might be too late to do anything. If banks are going to be forced to take losses, customers, who are much lower in the bankruptcy credit waterfall, are unlikely to get anything. However, each person's legal situation is unique and one should consult a qualified lawyer for specific advice.

    If the majority of customers can organize themselves as a group, which is quite unlikely, they can petition to ring fence specific assets that are still unencumbered, which can then be used to finance construction of their homes. For example, they can try to get control of the golf course, get land use changed, ask for FAR increase and sell it to some builder who can sell new towers there in return for completing construction of incomplete projects.

    This is just a hypothetical suggestion. Bankruptcy under the new code is unprecedented and no one knows how exactly it will proceed, but it is certainly a good idea for everyone affected to get individual qualified legal advice to see what options, if any, they have.
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  • Bankruptcy proceedings of JP will formally start soon as per RBI directive. NPA is a huge problem for Banking sector and Political Govt has tried to avoid it since long time.

    Whereas RBI has issued the directive, there is still lack of clarity how this thing will Pan out. The Banking regulations amendment to handle NPA mess is again full of loopholes.

    Anyway, there will be 3 key players involved. PSU Banks, Private Sec Banks & other Creditors. All 3 will be looking to grab hold of JP leftover assets. There is absolutely no voice of customers of JP RE sector in Bankruptcy proceedings. Whereas actual Bankruptcy may take time, the spigot of money of JP will stop very very soon.

    If there was a Buyers association of JP project, they should be carefully study the unencumbered RE assets of JP and use legal means to ring fence these assets. Sale of these assets is the only hope for incomplete projects.

    Political Govt don't wanna touch clean up of RE sector with 10 ft poll. RE bill was prepared by previous Govt long ago but they delayed the passage by several years. Finally present Govt had the bill on its table but they again delayed the passage. Even after passage they delayed implementation by 1 year at least. RE clean up will start aggressively in 2019 that will result in bankruptcy of major RE players.
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  • Certainly a bad news for Jaypee. However Liquidation shall come into picture only when Resolution is not found in 270 days, and we can hope a plan like debt restructuring/sale of assets/haircut on bank interest can be worked out . Company's day to day operations (Read construction at site) need not stop for all this period, but yes that will come under further stress.
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  • Originally Posted by Grenoite
    Sirji, everyone talking big banks, rbi, land deals but i have one question

    If land, then surely banks will like to take it, hospital, hotel, golf course any other party can take as no other people involve

    Bit what about flat projects which sold to 1000s of buyers, will bank be even interested to take over it ? As they will also have to deal with buyers , will they want it ? I think no

    I have hear rumours that jaypee gave commercial plot to paras builder in exchange for it to complete one of their project

    I think if thats real happen then it could be a way out

    Something like that can help buyers who stuck

    I sure no bank will like to take over project land where flats half make and 1000s of buyers involve


    That is right. Banks don't want to be involved in the mess of dealing with thousands of buyers. That is why they invoked SDR in the case of JP Power and JP Associates, but not in the case of JP Infratech.

    The most likely scenario is that all assets will be auctioned off and because it's a fire sale , there won't be enough to pay off lenders. It is a legal way for JP management to wash their hands off the mess as the company will be wound up and customers, contractors etc will be left holding the bag. Once the bankruptcy proceedings are over, the promoter family can make a fresh start.
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  • Originally Posted by vivmits
    Certainly a bad news for Jaypee. However Liquidation shall come into picture only when Resolution is not found in 270 days, and we can hope a plan like debt restructuring/sale of assets/haircut on bank interest can be worked out . Company's day to day operations (Read construction at site) need not stop for all this period, but yes that will come under further stress.


    If the contractors have any sense, they will know they have little hope of getting any payments through now. Unless JP fronts up cash, which it is short of, work is likely to come to a grinding halt soon.

    270 days is not a grace period to continue things as they were. It is the maximum time that can be taken for the process to get to the liquidation stage. According to the code, a resolution plan is expected to be worked out within 180 days, with a possible extension of 90 days in special circumstances.

    If the bankruptcy adminstration decides within one week that liquidation is the only viable option, then the liquidation process will start immediately and not wait for 270, or even 180, days.
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  • Some facts

    1. For some projects in wishtown like kalypso, pavilion customers make payment to JAL ( jaiprakash associates). Receipt of payment is from JAL.

    2. For lot of projects in wishtown like kasa, orchards etc customer make payment to JIL ( jaypee infratech)
    Receipt of payment is from JIL.

    3. Allotment letter of all projects in wishtown are on JAL letterhead, stamped by JAL and signed for JAL & JIL

    4. Wishtown Land was allotted to JAL.

    5. JAL had 70% stake in JIL

    6. JIL was formed as SPV for yamuna expressway development.

    It needs to be seen in detail how gaurs have created this jack and JILL mess .... only time will tell how they will be able to wash their hands off the mess.

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    1 Comments
    • Vbb1282 years ago
      I agree. Perhaps other experts in the group need to do their homework before passing the doomsday verdict.
  • Originally Posted by bhuwan
    Some facts

    1. For some projects in wishtown like kalypso, pavilion customers make payment to JAL ( jaiprakash associates). Receipt of payment is from JAL.

    2. For lot of projects in wishtown like kasa, orchards etc customer make payment to JIL ( jaypee infratech)
    Receipt of payment is from JIL.

    3. Allotment letter of all projects in wishtown are on JAL letterhead, stamped by JAL and signed for JAL & JIL

    4. Wishtown Land was allotted to JAL.

    5. JAL had 70% stake in JIL

    6. JIL was formed as SPV for yamuna expressway development.

    It needs to be seen in detail how gaurs have created this jack and JILL mess .... only time will tell how they will be able to wash their hands off the mess.



    The only reason that JAL is not on the bankruptcy list is that banks have already invoked SDR against it. The remediation plan for JAL is not yet clear, but if no other option emerges, it is possible it might be liquidated too, in fact, probably even before JIL is.

    The financial condition of JAL is not much better than JIL, in fact it is probably worse, since it houses most of the debt and has many loss making subsidiaries like the Formula 1 business.

    The bottomline is that JP is a big mess and all parties concerned might be forced to recognize their losses earlier than they anticipated​ with the latest move.
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  • Originally Posted by Truenity


    If the contractors have any sense, they will know they have little hope of getting any payments through now. Unless JP fronts up cash, which it is short of, work is likely to come to a grinding halt soon.

    270 days is not a grace period to continue things as they were. It is the maximum time that can be taken for the process to get to the liquidation stage. According to the code, a resolution plan is expected to be worked out within 180 days, with a possible extension of 90 days in special circumstances.

    If the bankruptcy adminstration decides within one week that liquidation is the only viable option, then the liquidation process will start immediately and not wait for 270, or even 180, days.


    Of course, i didnt say that 270 days is notice period. I said Liquidation comes into picture ONLY IF resolution is not found in that much time !
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  • Originally Posted by vivmits


    Of course, i didnt say that 270 days is notice period. I said Liquidation comes into picture ONLY IF resolution is not found in that much time !


    That is not correct. Liquidation can come into the picture immediately if there is consensus that is the only viable option straight away. The 180 days deadline ( and 90 day extension) becomes relevant only if there is no consensus reached on how to proceed. In that case, liquidation gets automatically triggered at the end of 180 days ( 270 days if extension was received).
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  • Originally Posted by Truenity


    That is not correct. Liquidation can come into the picture immediately if there is consensus that is the only viable option straight away. The 180 days deadline ( and 90 day extension) becomes relevant only if there is no consensus reached on how to proceed. In that case, liquidation gets automatically triggered at the end of 180 days ( 270 days if extension was received).


    I also said the same thing, 270 days is maximum period, it can take lesser/much lesser period also. But point remains, liquidation comes into picture only if resolution is not found in a maximum period of 180+90 days ! In my opinion chances are higher of arriving at a resolution as nobody gains from liquidation which will not generate enough funds anyway.
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  • Originally Posted by vivmits


    I also said the same thing, 270 days is maximum period, it can take lesser/much lesser period also. But point remains, liquidation comes into picture only if resolution is not found in a maximum period of 180+90 days ! In my opinion chances are higher of arriving at a resolution as nobody gains from liquidation which will not generate enough funds anyway.


    It is much better to liquidate immediately than to continue to throw money into a perennially loss making business. Savings will include the massive salaries paid to JP employees, several crores paid in lawyers' fees. In case JP loses one of the several court cases against them , it could cost thousands of crores. Some foreign banks have already sold their loans to vulture funds at a greater than 50% loss and moved on. Domestic banks have already made 25% provision on JP being declared NPA. They should be smart and take the hit now. If they wait , they might end up with nothing as courts might order JP to sell their assets to complete flats they have delayed delivery on to their customer and might even impose massive penalties. That would be a good outcome for customers, but terrible for the banks. So, from their perspective , liquidation is the best option.
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  • Originally Posted by Truenity


    It is much better to liquidate immediately than to continue to throw money into a perennially loss making business. Savings will include the massive salaries paid to JP employees, several crores paid in lawyers' fees. In case JP loses one of the several court cases against them , it could cost thousands of crores. Some foreign banks have already sold their loans to vulture funds at a greater than 50% loss and moved on. Domestic banks have already made 25% provision on JP being declared NPA. They should be smart and take the hit now. If they wait , they might end up with nothing as courts might order JP to sell their assets to complete flats they have delayed delivery on to their customer and might even impose massive penalties. That would be a good outcome for customers, but terrible for the banks. So, from their perspective , liquidation is the best option.


    But what will happen to the GC? There is no FAR left so its not like they can sell that land and construct more apartments there?


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  • Originally Posted by Imperialnoid


    But what will happen to the GC? There is no FAR left so its not like they can sell that land and construct more apartments there?



    It's not that FAR has not been increased before. In this case, it can even be done in the garb of public interest, as the funds generated from converting the golf course into a concrete jungle can be claimed to be for the purpose of completing the stuck towers in Wishtown, Aman and Sports City. Builder lobby and non GC side customers of JP will both be happy with this solution.
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  • only Bahubali can save this Mahesmati:)
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  • I doubt that. :(
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