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Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

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Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

Last updated: August 17 2020
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  • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

    When a bought a flat, I was issued the allotment letter after I paid the booking amount. But when I took a home loan, my bank wanted a developer NOC, basically a consent from the builders bankers to release mortgage on my specific flat.

    As I understand loan on land is like a pledge on specific flats so it is possible that 50% flats may be encumbered and others free for builder to sell.

    Similarly for registry the bank may have to release mortgage on specific flat.
    Last edited March 10 2016, 09:03 PM.

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    • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

      Originally posted by Imperialnoid View Post
      Sorry Mod. There are no quotes. This is all quite basic. But then I can appreciate it might be beyond the scope of some people. I spent a lot of time structuring those paragraphs. I hope you can leave them on for people who can understand this as there is a lot of fear mongering going on.
      This was not meant for u exclusively .

      I have been reading your posts . U look good . Keep on posting .
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      • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

        Originally posted by Imperialnoid View Post
        I have already answered this read below.

        I know what double financing is. The first bank (of the builder) will get the first charge. There is no question about that. But over what? You fail to realize that the debt against Kalypso court's land is not all the debt of Jaypee at Holding level or even at Subsidiary level it is at asset level. Debt issued against the land of Kalypso Court will be a portion of the asset value (land only).

        Say kalypso courts land value is X and the debt issue against it was 0.8X. When the building was constructed the value of Kalypso court as an asset increased to 2X. This was funded by buyers who are also creditors (say second charge). The bank should have no problem giving NOC as long as retained value in the asset does not fall below X. Alternatively the bank will give NOC for every $1 of asset transfer for $0.4 principle repayment on that particular asset.
        Boss I understand all of that . what you don't seem to understand is that firstly X is based on an assumption of where land can be sold. The real value might be 0.5x or even lower in a fire sale. Secondly, there are loans that JP has taken that are secured not by first charge on specific assets but a general charge on all assets of the firm. That will open another can of worms but I am done for now.

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        • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

          Originally posted by pkgandhi View Post
          Boss I understand all of that . what you don't seem to understand is that firstly X is based on an assumption of where land can be sold. The real value might be 0.5x or even lower in a fire sale. Secondly, there are loans that JP has taken that are secured not by first charge on specific assets but a general charge on all assets of the firm. That will open another can of worms but I am done for now.
          Can u explain this a commons's man language ?

          I am not as learned as u .
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          • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

            Originally posted by pkgandhi View Post
            Boss I understand all of that . what you don't seem to understand is that firstly X is based on an assumption of where land can be sold. The real value might be 0.5x or even lower in a fire sale. Secondly, there are loans that JP has taken that are secured not by first charge on specific assets but a general charge on all assets of the firm. That will open another can of worms but I am done for now.
            You are coming back to the points that have already been addressed.

            what you don't seem to understand is that firstly X is based on an assumption of where land can be sold. The real value might be 0.5x or even lower in a fire sale.

            X is the market value according to independent valuers approved by the banks at the time loan is issued. The loans are a decade old and 0.8X was very generous should be around 0.7X.

            Very unlikely. The reason banks loan at 0.8X is because they want to take into account crashes. I am very upset with the valuation of the asset sold by Jaypee. They are below X but certainly above 0.8X otherwise banks would wait for a better offer.

            Secondly, there are loans that JP has taken that are secured not by first charge on specific assets but a general charge on all assets of the firm. That will open another can of worms but I am done for now.

            Who said this? If something sells below 0.8X then it can spill over to other assets. There are no general loans. Jaypee is a lala organisation banks are not.
            Last edited March 10 2016, 09:20 PM.

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            • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

              AFAIK - In Wishtown only the very first projects Kalypso, Imperial and Pelican (plots) were mortgaged. And some commercial land. Nothing else was mortgaged.

              Other mortgages exist in Jaypee Greater Noida but most on YEW land/Sports City and on the first 40 kms of YEW eWay (Greater Noida to Jewar)

              In anycase there is no encumberance over most of WT - and where there is - registries are being permitted

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              • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

                Originally posted by MANOJa View Post
                Can u explain this a commons's man language ?

                I am not as learned as u .
                Manoja sir, no disrespect, but it is difficult to simplify beyond a point. Most loans do actually have general charge on assets. Say you buy a car on a loan. It's security is firstly the car, but then also your general assets. If the car has an accident and is condemned, the lender can come after your other assets to recover the loan. This is what a general charge is. What is true of loans to individuals is also true of loans to companies ( in some loan agreements the words "general charge" are explicitly written. It does create some conflict of interest with lenders who hold primary, specific charge, which is why it is a can of worms).

                In any case, my last post on the subject. I think the JP debt situation is at a stage where events will happen very fast and it is better to watch them rather than engage in futile academic discussions to prove who has a higher IQ.

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                • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

                  Originally posted by pkgandhi View Post
                  Boss I understand all of that . what you don't seem to understand is that firstly X is based on an assumption of where land can be sold. The real value might be 0.5x or even lower in a fire sale. Secondly, there are loans that JP has taken that are secured not by first charge on specific assets but a general charge on all assets of the firm. That will open another can of worms but I am done for now.
                  Normal practice is that banks assure a value of 1.2x at the time of mortgage (x being specific working capital) - which over time goes to 2-3-4x. I remember 1.2x being the figure for banks taking mortgage on RE assets in Jaypee many years ago - mostly land.

                  General charge over ALL ASSETS of Jaypee is a new one - which I don't know about. Can you explain this??

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                  • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

                    Originally posted by pkgandhi View Post
                    Manoja sir, no disrespect, but it is difficult to simplify beyond a point. Most loans do actually have general charge on assets. Say you buy a car on a loan. It's security is firstly the car, but then also your general assets. If the car has an accident and is condemned, the lender can come after your other assets to recover the loan. This is what a general charge is. What is true of loans to individuals is also true of loans to companies ( in some loan agreements the words "general charge" are explicitly written. It does create some conflict of interest with lenders who hold primary, specific charge, which is why it is a can of worms).

                    In any case, my last post on the subject. I think the JP debt situation is at a stage where events will happen very fast and it is better to watch them rather than engage in futile academic discussions to prove who has a higher IQ.
                    Further simplified say there is a dead deer. The Lion will have the First charge on the meat. When the lion is full then the Hyena will go next (second charge). Followed by Vultures who will be normal creditors.

                    General Charge means if the primary asset against which the loan is provided does not fetch the full amount of dues then bank can look at other assets.

                    Now say the car is written off the bank cannot force you to sell your furniture or house if you have given first charge to other entities. But they will go before other normal creditors.

                    Adding a bit more.

                    There is something called Holding and Subsidiaries. Charges cannot spill outside 1 subsidiary to another subsidiary. but can travel up the chain to Holding and Its directors personal liability.
                    Last edited March 10 2016, 09:41 PM.

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                    • Re : Jaypee Greens Wishtown, Noida

                      Originally posted by pkgandhi View Post
                      Manoja sir, no disrespect, but it is difficult to simplify beyond a point. Most loans do actually have general charge on assets. Say you buy a car on a loan. It's security is firstly the car, but then also your general assets. If the car has an accident and is condemned, the lender can come after your other assets to recover the loan. This is what a general charge is. What is true of loans to individuals is also true of loans to companies ( in some loan agreements the words "general charge" are explicitly written. It does create some conflict of interest with lenders who hold primary, specific charge, which is why it is a can of worms).

                      In any case, my last post on the subject. I think the JP debt situation is at a stage where events will happen very fast and it is better to watch them rather than engage in futile academic discussions to prove who has a higher IQ.
                      We need text which everybody can understand . No disrespect meant to anybody, we r looking to cater primarily to the common man & if u can only write for the elite, maybe, we need to have a fresh look at u .

                      I have ample of reports against so many members who just fly high and their posts r maybe comprehensible to a few select gathering .

                      We want language which all can understand . I cannot set a standard for this, but i can probably consider myself as a standard here .
                      Last edited March 10 2016, 09:59 PM.
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