What do you guys think about Jaypee Greens Wishtown - NOIDA? Is this a good time to buy? Is Wishtown a good investment?

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  • Couple of key points...from an interview of Manoj Gaur, given to Bloomberg TV today (17.09.12):

    1. Foreign partner roped in...consolidated debt which is now 45 K crores is to be brought down by 10 K crores within next 6 to 12 mos.

    2. Sale of land banks is also an option being worked upon...land bank's valuation has gone up post Y Ex Way opening...as expected.
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  • Originally Posted by VedKapoor
    Couple of key points...from an interview of Manoj Gaur, given to Bloomberg TV today (17.09.12):

    1. Foreign partner roped in...consolidated debt which is now 45 K crores is to be brought down by 10 K crores within next 6 to 12 mos.

    2. Sale of land banks is also an option being worked upon...land bank's valuation has gone up post Y Ex Way opening...as expected.


    thanks for this info ved sir ..
    can you plz explain how come these Realty companies start getting into such huge debts ? i thought this was a very profitable business?
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  • Originally Posted by trialsurvey
    thanks for this info ved sir ..
    can you plz explain how come these Realty companies start getting into such huge debts ? i thought this was a very profitable business?


    When Companies go in for residential kind of projects...after initial investment into land, they fund the project from receipts of first sales of those projects....so not much debt is involved.

    One reason for Companies in this category to fall into debt is when they divet funds from these projects into buying more land banks instead of completing the ones for which they collect money.

    2ndly, when a Company makes huge investments first (from equity plus debt) and returns / cash inflows come slowly, the debt goes up and stays for a while (some years) ...e.g. Formula 1, Y Ex Way...

    Huge debt puts pressure on cash flows for the time being...that is what has been happening to Jaypee.
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  • Best in the cheapest budget or cheapest in the best budget?
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  • Originally Posted by sanjay7
    Dear members i m looking to buy any new project for investment can wait for a long time
    can somebody guide cheapest and best which tower etc please...............


    Best and cheap at the same time.....If you find please lets us know also.
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  • He means sasta sundar tikau!!
    Bhaiya Shirt khareed rahe ho kya?
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  • Come on guys - stay contextual.

    Ps - Pics for last month are available - most amazing for me was Klassic. Splendid progress
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  • Sanjay bro.. Budget batao? Then only we can guide you!
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  • No changes for orchards :-((
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  • That is the worry with these big companies, they try to keep biting much more than they can chew, forget swallow. This is what happened to DLF as well b4 it saw the slump. land bank here , land bank there.There were talks about Tier2 , Tier 3 cities. Keep looking for expansion at the cost of debt piling and then it becomes so much that working capital is hard to find. At the peak KP Singh's wealth was touching Mukesh Ambani's and that was market wealth discounting the Coloured money that is there in the real estate in equal proportion. Likewise for Unitech, Keep growing without taking a breather looking back and analyzing. In turbulent times a little shake is good to bring them crumbling. Then all these talks of stake sale, selling off land bank etc. etc.

    Most of the times it is not their money at stake. DLF/Unitech/Jaypee all are listed companies whose Public offerings were lot higher than their actual worth. So, net net, either the share holders burn their fingers or their investors in these projects .
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  • Originally Posted by 4luvofmoney
    That is the worry with these big companies, they try to keep biting much more than they can chew, forget swallow. This is what happened to DLF as well b4 it saw the slump. land bank here , land bank there.There were talks about Tier2 , Tier 3 cities. Keep looking for expansion at the cost of debt piling and then it becomes so much that working capital is hard to find. At the peak KP Singh's wealth was touching Mukesh Ambani's and that was market wealth discounting the Coloured money that is there in the real estate in equal proportion. Likewise for Unitech, Keep growing without taking a breather looking back and analyzing. In turbulent times a little shake is good to bring them crumbling. Then all these talks of stake sale, selling off land bank etc. etc.

    Most of the times it is not their money at stake. DLF/Unitech/Jaypee all are listed companies whose Public offerings were lot higher than their actual worth. So, net net, either the share holders burn their fingers or their investors in these projects .


    I think Akash meant the pictures have nt been updated yet bro. Rest of WT is mostly updated and showing great progress. Hv a look and pass judgement
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    I think Akash meant the pictures have nt been updated yet bro. Rest of WT is mostly updated and showing great progress. Hv a look and pass judgement


    Oh I was not responding to Akash. I was talking about One of the earlier posts which talked about Gaur's interview on bloomberg and debt and stake sale. Yahan toh minutes mein topic ka focus hi badal jaata hai. Also, for clarifications sake, I am not saying Jaypee is in the same league of DLF/Unitech downfall. I have burnt my fingers in DLF and Jaypee stocks , so zakhm taaza ho gaye .:(
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  • Originally Posted by 4luvofmoney
    Oh I was not responding to Akash. I was talking about One of the earlier posts which talked about Gaur's interview on bloomberg and debt and stake sale. Yahan toh minutes mein topic ka focus hi badal jaata hai. Also, for clarifications sake, I am not saying Jaypee is in the same league of DLF/Unitech downfall. I have burnt my fingers in DLF and Jaypee stocks , so zakhm taaza ho gaye .:(


    Take ur argument to a conclusion - what does this imply for WT buyers? Do also qualify the risk somewhat if your answer is going to be heightened risk.
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  • Originally Posted by dineshsays
    Take ur argument to a conclusion - what does this imply for WT buyers? Do also qualify the risk somewhat if your answer is going to be heightened risk.


    All I meant was Vedkapoor mentioned that Mr. Gaur was looking at liquidating some land bank and selling stake or some Foreign funding (which I think would be the hawala channels, BTW). To me this indicates, it is getting hard for them to pull off their commitments. My worst fear as has been highlighted in some other threads is if they have been moving money from selling the new projects towards executing old projects and from one company to another. This chain will have to break and someone has to bear. The positive is WT around GC is far ahead in execution. But, what about newer launches and the entire wishtown.

    The big companies are masters of cooking books and it goes on until it explodes. Satyam came to light because prolonged recession made it impossible for them to move money from Maytas back to Satyam. Satyam suffered because Mr. Raju had just 4-5% stake in it. So he claimed Satyam never made any money and siphoned off everything into Maytas which was largely owned by his family. He had a choice between saving Satyam (a gem company with proven track record and over a billion dollar cash reserve) with personal stake less than 5% and saving Maytas which he had majority stake. How does anyone know a company in huge debt like Jaypee will not take a similar escape root. They have carved new companies like JP infra which I think owns the RE business and also consolidtaed companies in the last few years. These are just opportunities to re-write books, pass debts, cover losses or show losses as convenient.

    It will be great if it all turns out well, but their financial condition cannot be ignored when they are talking about developing over a 1000 acre township. I am myself interested in WT project (only GC facing) but in the process of evaluation, these things worry me and I am watching from sidelines.
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  • Originally Posted by 4luvofmoney
    All I meant was Vedkapoor mentioned that Mr. Gaur was looking at liquidating some land bank and selling stake or some Foreign funding (which I think would be the hawala channels, BTW). To me this indicates, it is getting hard for them to pull off their commitments. My worst fear as has been highlighted in some other threads is if they have been moving money from selling the new projects towards executing old projects and from one company to another. This chain will have to break and someone has to bear. The positive is WT around GC is far ahead in execution. But, what about newer launches and the entire wishtown.

    The big companies are masters of cooking books and it goes on until it explodes. Satyam came to light because prolonged recession made it impossible for them to move money from Maytas back to Satyam. Satyam suffered because Mr. Raju had just 4-5% stake in it. So he claimed Satyam never made any money and siphoned off everything into Maytas which was largely owned by his family. He had a choice between saving Satyam (a gem company with proven track record and over a billion dollar cash reserve) with personal stake less than 5% and saving Maytas which he had majority stake. How does anyone know a company in huge debt like Jaypee will not take a similar escape root. They have carved new companies like JP infra which I think owns the RE business and also consolidtaed companies in the last few years. These are just opportunities to re-write books, pass debts, cover losses or show losses as convenient.

    It will be great if it all turns out well, but their financial condition cannot be ignored when they are talking about developing over a 1000 acre township. I am myself interested in WT project (only GC facing) but in the process of evaluation, these things worry me and I am watching from sidelines.

    bro aap toh dara diye
    kosmos deliver karne ke baad hee bubble burst karwana yaar .... not before that ;)
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