3C Lotus Panache, Noida

Anyone booked with the 3C Lotus Panache in Noida so far?
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  • This is important panachites!!

    I was about to ask you this today. I personally did not know much about BBA but after having heard a lot about it in the forum, I am confused. I still havn't handed over the BBA to 3C, ideally we should not be charged for using pools and other things. 3C officials themselves told me using pools would be a part of the Maintenance and nothing extra would have to be paid, only thing that would have to be paid would be the club and things/facilities there in.

    I think 3C would have no option but to hand over these common areas/facilities to RWA. When everyone would voice out together, it would have to be done but why is this thing not mentioned in the BBA, there has to be a reason behind it which obviously is the last card 3C has that could cost us in future. I would want to voice it out but it would not be possible for everyone to voice it out together. If all of us could gather and meet brijesh or whatever his name is, he would have to amend the BBA content, to a certain extend at least..

    what do other forum member feels, kindly participate, this is important!
    Originally Posted by sanjaysood
    Sacho, what is your take on ownership of 3C on club, common areas etc. even after handing over the project. When the UP Act clearly mandates that the builder has to exit the project after handing over, how can they still own it? There appears to be some legal flaw in this. I feel it is the Act which would ultimately prevail and not the BBA, even if we sign it.

    This is questionnable as well as objectionable and 3C must answer within the framework of the Act.
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  • Project Updates

    From the project updates being uploaded by 3c each month do not give a clear picture of what is happening. Ideally, they should give a small write up about the progress being made w.r.t all the phases. Otherwise they are leaving it to us do the guess work.
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  • Originally Posted by sanjaysood
    Hi all


    Update photographs for August have been posted on lotuspanache.in

    crap LB site has no updates :(
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  • Originally Posted by sanjaysood
    Sacho, what is your take on ownership of 3C on club, common areas etc. even after handing over the project. When the UP Act clearly mandates that the builder has to exit the project after handing over, how can they still own it? There appears to be some legal flaw in this. I feel it is the Act which would ultimately prevail and not the BBA, even if we sign it.

    This is questionnable as well as objectionable and 3C must answer within the framework of the Act.


    Guys, Please read the agreement. Builder is 3C/Mahagun/Patel amount we pay for club is "Club Membership" not "Club ownership".

    PAN Oasis agreement : Club Membership charges : 1 Lakh
    Mahagun Mordene : Club/Recreational facilities : 1 Lakh

    (Above statement from respctive buyer agreement. It no where talk about ownership)
    Means I am paying 1 lakh to become member of Mahagun Mordene Club which is mandatory and to it need to pay monthly to use it. (It's not written but I am sure).
    In My agreement it's clearly written that all common facilites will be owned by builder. RWA will not manage club, it will be always maintained by builder or it's nominee.

    Whatever be the UP governemnt act, I don't know, but tell me if government is so honest about buyer rights, they should also consider builder agreement document whiling approving the project.

    Means, when builder submit project document , NA should also ask their draft copy of buyer agreement and only approve project when it has all common faclities clearly mentioned.
    But that is not the case and they always keep loophole open for builder.

    As early you stop beliving builder verbal commitment, it is good for you. Ask the concern person to give in writing what he is saying, you will come to know. (based on my experience with PAN, I had a heated argument over with one of their employee, he told me if you pay park facing means kya Park per kabza ker loge ? Issue was related to terrace and he was saying PLC is to see the terrace not to use it.)

    Maintenance charges in Mahagun Sec 78 project written as Rs. 1.25 sqft estimated as on March 2010. Actual will be calculated on possession.

    PAN Oasis have not written about maintenance charges in agreement.

    In Mahagun, handover to RWA is when 75% of flat owner take possession or within 2 years as per agreement.

    When I compared PAN/Mahagun agreement, I found Mahagun agreement more descriptive and have more information. Even they have mentioned land registry no. in agreeement.

    Above is written just for information for all NOIDA flat buyers. Intrestingly most people just sign the agreement and don't ever read it.

    I understand we can not do anything but atleast know what we signed.
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  • Truth is that flat buyers pay for everything in the project..land, building, clubs, pool, open spaces, electrical sub-station, DG sets etc....just the wordings are different.

    Once a builder has built allowable FSI and handed over the flats, he has no rights over the common areas, clubs, facilities etc. He has to exit from the project and handover everything to RWA ad exit. And this exactly is prescribed under UP Act. The Act aims to curb post-project completion activities like misuse of open spaces (new towers), commercial use of facilities built for the residents etc. by the builder.

    It seems people have not gone through Act & Rules properly. Pls. read them few times to understand. NA is just a local authority under the act. There is a separate competent authority.

    Under no Act/Law, the Govt. will approve documents like allotment letter, BBA, lease deed etc. Do not expect Govt. to do everything. Govt. has made legislation, rules etc. and everyone has to go by that...courts are there to enforce and adjudicate.

    If you sign BBA, builder will just replicate everything in BBA in final sale deed. So once you sign BBA, your options are gone i am sure.

    This is a very new Act. Most buyers have no idea about this legislation. But now that it is there and we know about it, it is quite natural for us to demand our rights as well as obligation of builders as available under it. In my view, legally builder has no choice but to follow the Act in its totality.

    BBA is a step towards getting your money to the builder. Once we pay 40% (10%+30%), builder has his investment back in his pocket without laying a brick. Then he will construct the project with our fund flow. So BBA signing is best time to corner a builder. If it is delayed, builder suffers most. But once you pay 40%, it is you suffer. This is reality of RE market.

    If a builder does not like / accept the Act, let him go to court and get a stay on the operation of Act.

    PS: What has happened in other projects before this Act came in to being, can not be the basis of judgmental. Pan Oasis/ Mahagun BBA can not be followed blindly.
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  • Court case ? Ha ha ha... 90% buyer will opt to exit if given option rather than going court case.
    I myself will exit rather than court case.
    My objective is to find good builder atleast who write 60% of what he is promises in buyer agreement.
    That's why I am encouraging all to read buyer agreement and discuss it's point.
    UP act is very good but it's difficult for retail buyer to force builder to follow the same.
    So let's find out which builder is following UP act.
    But if you file legal case on builder and just advertize on lot of website/forum builder will must loose 100's of customer.
    Example IREF might have shyed away 100's of buyer from Supertech projects.
    And lot of people have booked in projects like 3C, Patel, Mahagun, Gulshan based on review of this website.
    Royal, I guess you booked in Gardenia golf city, follow up them if they can follow UP act. It will give example to all other builders.
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  • Does holding on to the agreement help in any way ?

    The clauses are not going to change,nor will your 100% money paid be returned(if at all they decide to return some percentage).So then is it not good to sign & return

    Also can you let me know in how many days does 3C counter-sign and send our copy of agreement back,since I need it for my home-loan ?

    Originally Posted by vishal1880
    Like all BBs all the clauses are favourable (only for the Builder). Resisting will not help brother, coz every one else would have signed it by now. I for one like i said earlier recived my BBA in October (for LB) I have still not signed it... and guess I eventually will have to!

    But I just read about the UP Apartments act and that Paras PPl are opposing it... so would just hold on to it...

    BTW I have paid 30%
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  • Brothers...let us first look at perspectives in order to understand the issue better.

    1. In just one year, there has been so much changes. It is buyers market now. Projects are flooding, many by good builders and buyers have multiple options. I also agree with the view that there will not be any appreciation in Noida for next 5 years and even if some one misses now, he is likely to get a home of his choice 3-4 years later at a price which is equal to today's rate+interest+little cost of hassles. So all builders are certainly under pressure.

    2. Buyers have become smart thanks to technology. They are sharing, talking and getting together. Look at the activities in IREF and various groups now and compare with just 1-2 years back. Ever heard before, buyers making a group and extracting best rates from builder or negotiating other aspects? A retail buyer can not take on a builder but a group of 50 can take easily and the builder would have no choice but to fall in line.

    3. Moreover, buyers are now able to differentiate between good and bad and most are willing to pay a premium for good.

    4. RTI has suddenly opened all Govt. records before public. Today with only 20-50 bucks one can get any information on any builder from NA files. Builders know this and can not hide things for long.

    Factors above combined together, gives best scenario for buyers.

    Litigation in India has peculiar aspect..... Delay. So the benefit of delay goes to different party depending upon timing. If you have paid substantial money to builder, the litigation delay helps him. But at initial stages, litigation delay, if any, will go against the builder and he would do everything possible to prevent the buyers from going for litigation.

    So if you are a group and have paid just 10% booking amount to builder (that gives you legal right), it is best time to bargain with builder and make him fall in line with new Act. I wonder why people have paid 30% installment to builder without approval of plans or signing of BBA. One must never do that....

    As buyers we are not at all interested in commercial zone of any project. All that we want is that the facilities and amenities created by the builder for the residents be handed over to us on completion of the project. We have paid for them.We also want complete transparency. We have heard stories of builders promising 500 KVA sub-station and walking off with just 100 KVA. People suffer when all flats are occupied. Similarly builder will buy DG sets for his project construction and after construction is over, he will pass on these DGs to Maintenance account at full value. These kinds of examples are endless.

    You are right, noises here as well as experiences of old buyers posted in net have helped first time buyers to know the track record and to make right judgment.

    Coming to Gardenia where I have booked, I am hopeful that gardenia will prepare a BBA as per new Act and things will be transparent. Else, we will fight for it for sure.We area already a group there and if you are following gardenia thread, you know how a group of 50-70 have forced them to commit things in writing. Gardenia had changed the BBA for its Glory project to accommodate the concerns/ wishes of buyers and I am sure they will have same approach in golf city also. Else we are sure to fight for it. We should be reaching BBA stage in about 2 month time. Let us see but we are prepared.

    It is not just paras, gardenia or panache... buyers need to fight in all projects for benefits of new act and greater transparency. Let us hope we will achieve something better at the end...Good Day
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  • May I assume that all the above post regarding the ownership and maintenance of club retained by the builder is not justified at all to all the buyers of LP.
    Then, We have to do something now to change this clause in the BBA and also to include everything like commom facilities clearly as per UP apartment act.
    Its a very serious issue. Becoz buider may demand 4-5 lakhs each from every flat owner for transfer of club ownership after completion of project. It always remain the bone of contention with the RWA and the builder in the future. Also, Club monthly charges may be hiked any time by the builder in his interest without anybody consent. So if we have to do something, then this is the right time.
    Its the time to raise our voices all together.
    First we should raise the RTI in Noida Authority about the status of compliance of UP act in the BBA of 3C lotus Panache. Then all the buyers must collectively force the 3C to follow the legal law in BBA.

    Any comments.
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  • Dear Dhruv,

    Can you elaborate on the highlighted portion of your post-what is wrong about the same in the LP agreement ?

    Originally Posted by Dhruv Garg
    May I assume that all the above post regarding the ownership and maintenance of club retained by the builder is not justified at all to all the buyers of LP.
    Then, We have to do something now to change this clause in the BBA and also to include everything like commom facilities clearly as per UP apartment act.
    Its a very serious issue. Becoz buider may demand 4-5 lakhs each from every flat owner for transfer of club ownership after completion of project. It always remain the bone of contention with the RWA and the builder in the future. Also, Club monthly charges may be hiked any time by the builder in his interest without anybody consent. So if we have to do something, then this is the right time.
    Its the time to raise our voices all together.
    First we should raise the RTI in Noida Authority about the status of compliance of UP act in the BBA of 3C lotus Panache. Then all the buyers must collectively force the 3C to follow the legal law in BBA.

    Any comments.
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  • Originally Posted by faujiman
    Dear Dhruv,

    Can you elaborate on the highlighted portion of your post-what is wrong about the same in the LP agreement ?


    The first thing is that Builder have the right to change the Super area of the flat +- 8% at the offer of possession in which buyer has to pay the difference. Actually withour getting anything extra as carpet area, u will pay more, if builder wants.

    The second thing is that Club ownership,school ownership,shopping complex,business centre,guest house will not be transferred to RWA in any condition. Initially they are plann for use of panache residents as per builder but if the builder has all rights of ownership with him. Then, in future he can raise the price of using all that stuff at exhorbitant high priceswithout RWA consent. Also, he may open the doors for outside people for more profit in future( no one knows what lies in the future).

    Third Thing is that, No. of kids pool has got reduced to one only as initial plan of two. and where is the DG set/powerback location in the layout. No answer from 3C.

    We have to curb all above things as early as possible. Otherwise,later we will not able to do anything but to accept all those unjustified stuff from builder.

    Any comments.
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  • Dhruv,

    While what you have mentioned all this,can you do anything once you have already paid 20-30%-that money is not coming back..Also you will need to continue paying ??

    Also most builders,in fact all always have clauses favorable to themselves...that is the way this country runs...!!

    Originally Posted by Dhruv Garg
    The first thing is that Builder have the right to change the Super area of the flat +- 8% at the offer of possession in which buyer has to pay the difference. Actually withour getting anything extra as carpet area, u will pay more, if builder wants.

    The second thing is that Club ownership,school ownership,shopping complex,business centre,guest house will not be transferred to RWA in any condition. Initially they are plann for use of panache residents as per builder but if the builder has all rights of ownership with him. Then, in future he can raise the price of using all that stuff at exhorbitant high priceswithout RWA consent. Also, he may open the doors for outside people for more profit in future( no one knows what lies in the future).

    Third Thing is that, No. of kids pool has got reduced to one only as initial plan of two. and where is the DG set/powerback location in the layout. No answer from 3C.

    We have to curb all above things as early as possible. Otherwise,later we will not able to do anything but to accept all those unjustified stuff from builder.

    Any comments.
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  • LB construction

    I just checked the LB construction updates which seems to be moving at a good pace. I noticed they use some kind of special bricks - are these the same to be used in LP? The LP brochure says such insulating walls would be "optional" if desired. That sounds weird.

    Any updates on the sample flats' status if any of you have visited the site?
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  • Originally Posted by Dhruv Garg
    The first thing is that Builder have the right to change the Super area of the flat +- 8% at the offer of possession in which buyer has to pay the difference. Actually withour getting anything extra as carpet area, u will pay more, if builder wants.

    The second thing is that Club ownership,school ownership,shopping complex,business centre,guest house will not be transferred to RWA in any condition. Initially they are plann for use of panache residents as per builder but if the builder has all rights of ownership with him. Then, in future he can raise the price of using all that stuff at exhorbitant high priceswithout RWA consent. Also, he may open the doors for outside people for more profit in future( no one knows what lies in the future).

    Third Thing is that, No. of kids pool has got reduced to one only as initial plan of two. and where is the DG set/powerback location in the layout. No answer from 3C.

    We have to curb all above things as early as possible. Otherwise,later we will not able to do anything but to accept all those unjustified stuff from builder.

    Any comments.


    Legally, a builder can not sign BBA without first having ownership rights over the land and without having obtained approval of plans from Noida Authority.

    Pls. remember NA approves not just floor plans, it also approves towers and entire master lay out which clearly specifies the location, size and specifications of various facilities including internal roads, parking, open spaces, power supply, water supply, fire fighting and so on...........

    Once this approval in place, everything about the project is frozen....no question of any variations in super area after that stage....

    Yes, variations may be there only if the builder is incompetent or unprofessional.

    So IMHO, a BBA can not have any provision for variations and payment of additional cost by buyers on that account in the BBA. Buyers can not be penalized for incompetence of builder. Yes, buyer should pay but only if there is increase in carpet area of flat. Never otherwise.

    BTW, any one knows how these builders calculate super area? This seems to be their trade secret. No one discloses.

    In one of the on going project in NOIDA, the BBA clearly defines both super area as well carpet area and says that in case of any increase in SBA/Carpet area, there will no additional cost to buyers but in case of any reduction, the total cost shall be reduced proportionately. This BBA was signed just before new Act came in to operation.
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  • BTW, any one knows how these builders calculate super area? This seems to be their trade secret. No one discloses.



    Hi

    Very well said. Super area calculation is a very important point.

    BTW pls share the name of the builder who has included the good clause of super/carpet area in BBA and mentioned things which favour the consumer.
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