3C Lotus Panache, Noida

Anyone booked with the 3C Lotus Panache in Noida so far?
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  • in next demand note you will get service tax for all the installments paid after July 1. same thing was present in my receipts for 2nd installment and I was very happy that service tax is inclusive in price. but in demand note for 3rd installment, service tax is mentioned separately and they have asked for service tax on 1st and 2nd installment as well.
    Originally Posted by narinder
    well i got demand note few days back below that it was mention of service tax .
    that if applicable same shall be payable on demand.

    3 days back got recipt. they have reduced the base amount n mention of service tax is there .
    but feeling no extra cost been asked so hope fully service tax will be taken care by 3c itself.

    u can understand like base amount +service tax==basic

    no extra charges put on yet.
    as per my understanding.

    if any body has come across where 3c has asked for extra amount in name of service tax .please let us know.

    if they r not passing this service tax burden to coustomers .legally they should not.

    they will be setting example to other builders
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  • Originally Posted by alokgarg
    in next demand note you will get service tax for all the installments paid after July 1. same thing was present in my receipts for 2nd installment and I was very happy that service tax is inclusive in price. but in demand note for 3rd installment, service tax is mentioned separately and they have asked for service tax on 1st and 2nd installment as well.

    thanks for the information. i was thinking other way
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  • yeah , sorry to destroy your happy mood :). is there anyway we can get out of paying this extra charge or should we just give in and accept cost of our purchase has increased.
    Originally Posted by narinder
    thanks for the information. i was thinking other way
    CommentQuote
  • well , customer care guy was pretty adamant that tax is only on installments after july 1. but who knows, what govt will do in future. so did you know about tax after july 1 or was just lucky?
    Originally Posted by narinder
    well bad that have to bear extra cost .
    but r u sure that payment done before 1 july wont come under this service tax .or later builder will give notice for payment made before 1 july.

    have another unit in espacia luckly or unluckly done down payment on 30 june.hope no extra cost on that.

    regarding service tax thing was thinking we r paying sevice tax almost every where. be it insurance or some other services .ultimatly we r bearing it .
    its good to fight for right but trying to understand why this service tax given by us at other places.
    CommentQuote
  • It is applicable for payments after July 1 only. They are not asking for tax for payments made before that. Logix has done the same too.



    Originally Posted by alokgarg
    well , customer care guy was pretty adamant that tax is only on installments after july 1. but who knows, what govt will do in future. so did you know about tax after july 1 or was just lucky?
    CommentQuote
  • yeah this is my understanding too. but govt can issue another notification tomorrow and say complete price of any building completed after July 1 is taxable. this is all very arbitrary.
    Originally Posted by amitexpert
    It is applicable for payments after July 1 only. They are not asking for tax for payments made before that. Logix has done the same too.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by alokgarg
    well , customer care guy was pretty adamant that tax is only on installments after july 1. but who knows, what govt will do in future. so did you know about tax after july 1 or was just lucky?

    i read some were that under construction where construction is not completed till july 1 . so was not feeling lucky .
    as such building is not completed so service is provided hence service tax.
    CommentQuote
  • Govt. wont change anything till the next budget as the new tax was part of budget and was passed by the parliament. What we need to understand is that the tax liability has shifted from contractor to the builder. Builder pays extra to the govt but saves in the payments to the contractors. those savings must be passed on to the customers by the builder.
    CommentQuote
  • legally when 3C ask for thr installments and doesn't mention service tax thr in, they cannot ask for service tax at a later date. If they have asked xyz amount and that has been paid they cannot later come back saying you would have to pay service tax for the payment already made. They can only charge service tax on future payments. Had they mentioned service tax could be payable at a later date, on the demand note, then they still could impose it but since that wasnt mentioned, they can't ask for service tax. Its against law and pls don't be a scape goat in this. DO NOT PAY what you are not supposed to! its the builders fault and they should deal it by thr own, no1's responsible for thr wrong acts!!

    Originally Posted by alokgarg
    well , customer care guy was pretty adamant that tax is only on installments after july 1. but who knows, what govt will do in future. so did you know about tax after july 1 or was just lucky?
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by alokgarg
    Thanks for posting this. It will take time to form a group. in the meantime, I will like to send this letter to 3C on my behalf as they have demanded service tax from me. can you provide the contact details of lawyer you have consulted, I want to know my legal liabilities if I refuse to pay service tax to 3C. also you have mentioned some supporting documents. can you upload them somewhere or email those to me(send me a private message if you want my contact details). it will be really helpful if you can provide this letter in formatted word document. again thanks for your initiative.


    Ps. since you are planning to form a group, please consider me in. I had posted a few clarifications on the allotment letter / BBAgreement to 3C guyz and also posted the same in the yahoo group but there were not many takers apart from 1-2 guyz who suggested me to post the same at iref, so here i am ready to be part of the group and sharing my contribution in terms of clarifications we requires so that our interest is protected in the later stages of the project/society.

    Ps. the text is too large so mailing it across multiple posts
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  • General Clarifications

    GENERAL

    1. What is the height of the floor, it's not mentioned in any of the
    allotment letter or builder buyer agreement.

    2. From Internet we understand that through notification "No.
    398(2)/LXXIX-V-1-10-1(ka) 12-2010" on 13th Jult 2010 "THE UTTAR PRADESH
    APARTMENT (PROMOTION OF CONSTRUCTION, OWNERSHIP AND MAINTENANCE)" act has come
    in force. But still as on date the builder buyer agreement is reference to the
    old act which is not that buyer friendly. The copy of act is also available on
    the home page of "Housing and Urban Planning Department, UP"

    3. The Builder Buyer agreement does not mention the Carpet area, you have
    given the diagram of the apartment with the dimensions but it does not give any
    details of the other areas. Defiantly we would like to know the basis of
    calculation of the Super Area. I would request you to kindly put the carpet area
    in the builder buyer agreement moreover please provide us with architect signed
    calculation for the super area from the carpet area. Moreover when you specify
    the carpet area please ensure that the area occupied by bricks is not included
    in the carpet area.

    4. We understand that payment toward land to the authority would continue
    for a longer duration then what a buyer would pay to builder. If after buyer
    makes all the payments to builder and builder fail to complete the commitments
    towards authority what would be the fate of buyer. The buyers should be kept
    indemnified towards such things.

    5. The builder buyer agreement does not talk of the total number of floors
    in the given apartment. This should be part of the builder buyer agreement.

    6. The builder buyer agreement is silent over the number of lifts,
    facilities like pool, gym etc that would be provided to the buyers. The premium
    the buyers are ready to pay for this project as compared to other projects is
    due to these facilities and other reasons. If these facilities are not listed
    the buyers would not have any right to demand the same from the builder.

    7. This is more of a point of clarification, Does the builder have any
    issue if the buyer after taking the possession of the flat sub-sub lease if
    further for other residential purposes like PG / service apartment.

    8. Please inform us where the electricity substation is housed in the
    complete project. This is neither clear from the layout maps nor from the
    agreement or allotment letter

    9. We understand the concept of the green building. This is the reason for
    which buyers are also paying premium over other projects. However its not clear
    from the builder buyer agreement that the flat / project being offered is a
    clean / zero discharge building moreover it's not clear who will own the money
    earned through carbon credits etc.

    10. The recent Supreme Court judgment marks the parking lots as "common areas"
    and hence when we talk of super built up area etc the price of the parking lot
    should already be included in that. Why the builder is charging extra money
    towards the covered parking?

    11. Since the land falls under seismic zone 4, I want a conformity (preferably
    signed by the architect) that the design of the building meet the seismic zone 4
    requirements.
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  • Related to allotment letter

    12. The clause 1 of the allotment letter talks of the lease deed signed between
    the company and the authority. Buyers as an end user cannot keep a track of
    amendments etc that the company might have signed time and again. It would be
    nice if the registry details such as the registrar office , date , book number
    and pages of the lease deed are mentioned in the builder buyer agreement itself.

    13. The clause 4 talks of a 18% p.a interest, however if is not clear if this
    would be a simple interest or a compound interest and on a monthly rest or daily
    rest or what? Please amend the letter appropriately so that there is no
    ambiguity in the clause.

    14. The allotment letter is quite biased in clause 7 the bulder is taking all
    possible security like wilfull delay , force majeure etc but not giving such
    options to the buyer in making a payment. I think the clause 3 should be
    appropriately modified to give such benefits to the buyer as well. (like not
    receiving of the demand letter , closure of banks etc)

    15. Clause 7b does not mentioned that the penealty per month is based on super
    area. Where ever the buyer's commitment are required the clauses mention super
    area but when it's time of builders commitment it is not talking of super area
    but left it open for interpretation.

    16. There is some need for limiting the clause 7(d), the clause is important as
    the delivery of the whole project is happening in phases but that does not mean
    that the building continues for over 10 years and necessary be inconvenient to
    the buyers.

    17. Clause 9 does not talk of the maximum amount that Builder may charge the
    fees for update of its record and getting the statutory records updated but this
    does not mean that GGPPL can charge arbitrary for such works. Please be specific
    on these amounts or inform us some ball parked figure.

    18. Clause 11, How is that builder taking ownership of public amenities ,
    business lounges etc which I would term as "Commerial Activities" when these are
    not owned by the society or other such body formed.

    19. Clause 13a does not allow us to even have a LPG cylinder/stove in our
    house. I understand with 3C having a expertise in commercial segment but this
    is a very limiting clause where a person can not have an LPG cylinder in his
    house.

    20. Clause 13c does not allow the buyer to change the flooring etc of his house
    as the removal of old flooring may be termes as "demolish of part of apartment"
    moreover with the complete structure being RCC (I assumed) the strength of house
    should lie in the columns and beams the buyer should be allowed to make
    modifications (post approval form society and under a architect) for the
    internal walls.

    21. Clause 13e does not allow the buyer to make any changes in the external
    look of the flat. We understand this is very important point from aesthetics
    point of view but at the wording of such clauses does not allow us to install
    grills on window and balcony which is very much required from security point of
    view (my flat is in 24th floor). Request you to please modify the wordings of
    builder buyer agreement.

    22. Clause 13f should be limited to the time the body of association is formed,
    post this builder has no write on the area that is owned and managed by the
    society / association.

    23. Clause 14 Makes the buyer pay the arbitrary amount as taxes, the buyer
    should have a right to see the assessment get satisfied and then only pay.

    24. Clause 15 The 3C group is one of the promoters of the project, though the
    name of society does not changes but since the project is executed by GGPPL, the
    3C group or GGPPL should keep the buyer indemnified of any claims arising but
    other promoters of the GGPPL regarding the same.

    25. Clause 19 what about the payments of ESC , Firefighting charges , power
    back up etc if they are not given to us.

    26. Clause 20 The builder has not right in forcing us for moving into
    maintenance agreement, such contract should be entered between the housing
    society formed and not with individual flat buyers. Why should the buyers pay
    for the maintenance of services for club, launge etc when they would not be
    owned by the society

    27. Clause 21 The builder should not dictate the maintenance charges and the
    company. If the builder does a good work at nominal cost the contract of
    maintenance would keep on coming to the builder else housing society has the
    right to choose the company who would maintain the common areas

    28. Clause 22, I am sorry for using such a absurd language, but if I Inter
    correctly if this clause is acceptable then it say "Mr. Buyer though you ordered
    a tandori chichek but I gave you a masala dosa you will still have to eat the
    masala dosa and pay for the tandori chichen"

    29. Clause 22, The agreement talks of location becoming preferential location
    you would charge but the clause is silent on the facts if the location become
    less preferential. Ideally in such case builder should refund the PLC charged

    30. Clause 22, Under the circumstance the buyer should be given a option to
    reallot a flat or given a option to exit the project with no penalty

    31. Clause 23, If it's a plot for group housing then how is the builder owner
    of the all these things. These things should go to the housing society and not
    with the builder.

    32. Clause 25, Please convince me how is a damage of around 5lac for just
    modifying2-3 records of the project. What about the if exit is happening coz the
    builder is not able to deliver the promised things? Will the builder pay
    equivalent amount as damages to the buyer?

    33. Clause 26, What about the club membership? Shouldn't that too also
    automatically transferred as the parking lot transfer?

    34. Clause 26, What about if I already have 3 cars, where would my other cars
    get parked?

    35. Clause 26, What are the dimensions of the parking space being provided for
    each flat?

    36. Clause 26, Please include another commitment from your side on the amount
    to be paid for the land to the authority.

    37. Clause 28, When Builder is charging 18% from the buyer is liable to pay 18%
    to the buyers. How come it's 10% only moreover if the builder is paying simple
    interest then the buyer should also pay simple interest only (refer clause 4)

    38. Clause 29, Request you to kindly ensure a copy of the communication should
    be sent to our email address registered at your end.

    39. Clause 32, By this you are stopping a person from moving to Supreme Court,
    it is unlawful.

    40. Clause 33, Incase there any any changes in said "general terms and
    conditions" the buyer should be allowed a exit route without penalizing him.
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  • Builder Buyer Agreement

    Flat Buyer Agreement A.K.A Builder buyer agreement

    41. Page 2, Like requested in allotment letter, please include the registry
    details for the said plot

    42. Page 2, Last para : We do not know the N number of revisions and approvals
    taken. Please share (a copy of) the latest approved building layout plan ,
    lease deed document for our record purposes. I do not mind paying Rs. 1 per page
    photo copy charges, I am ok if I am provided with these and get the same copied
    at my own expenses

    43. Page 2, Last para : Please we need a small clarification, as requested for
    clarification in the allotment letter section, the company is to pay lease
    amount to authority but what is the company fails to pay that.

    44. Page 3, First para : There are many other things like pools , school ,
    hospital etc that have been promised but not mentioned in the builder buyer
    agreement. Atleast the layout plan (which tower is where) should be included in
    the builder buyer agreement.

    45. Page 3, second para : I thought the plans are now approved by Noida
    Authority and they are no longer tentative. Why is the agreement still referring
    them to as draft plans.

    46. Page 3, Second para : The changes proposed may not want the buyer to
    continue with the project as a result the buyer should be given an exit route
    with no penalty

    47. Page 3, third para : The clauses says that buyer is entering the contract
    with full knowledge of rules, however a similar para should exist for the seller
    saying that "seller clearly understand the rights and duties of both buyer and
    seller as per the current regulations and regulations passed but due for
    notification" . this is required specially for UP apartment act 2010.

    48. Clause 1.2 : If possible please share the tentative sublease document or if
    it's a standard document please share the link of the same on the noida
    authority portal so that we can review the same.

    49. Clause 2.1 : Like in allotment letter, please mention the carpet area, the
    area which we the buyer would actually be the owner off

    50. Clause 2.2 : Please share the list of things the company plans to make but
    keep the ownership to itself so that there is no issue on such ownerships when
    the society is being formed.

    51. Clause 2.3 : in the last line where it says that "inclusion of comman area
    in the computation does not give any proprietary interest there in to the buyer"
    please extend the line and specifically add "but gives right to use"

    52. Clause 2.4 : As far as we know, the plans are now finalized. Why are they
    still refered to as tentative plans. Ps. A exit option should be given to a
    buyer if the modified plan are not suited to the buyer.

    53. Clause 2.4 : As recommended in allotment letter, the clause should be
    modified to ensure that if the new location is not preferential then the PLC
    paid should be refunded.

    54. Clause 3.2(e,f,g) : The purpose of these charges should be mentioned so
    that later on there is no confusion for the commitments by the builders have
    been fulfilled or not

    55. Clause 3.2(e/h) : Why are the ESC based on the sqft of the house and not
    based on the load of electicity. What is the backup I would get how much KW?

    56. Clause 3.2 (j) : Is if the life time membership with usage writes to whom
    (all family members, people staying , external people or what)

    57. Clause 3.2 (h) : why is the purpose of IFMS, why is it on per sq ft. basis

    58. Clause 4.4 : Please mention the minimum period that would be given for the
    buyer between the demand note and payment date. Also please allow at least one
    default for the same (the time we would have had payed through our resources and
    would be paying through loan from an approved bank.

    59. Clause 4.5 : Why should the buyer pay at 18% when the company would pay
    only at 10% interest.

    60. Clause 4.5 : The force majeure protection that builder is enjoying should
    also be enjoyed by the buyer.

    61. Clause 4.6 : If the company is charging interest on delayed payment, it
    should also pay interest on prepayment. (time between payment made and actually
    applied)

    62. Clause 4.7 : The buyer should be given a right of being heard and a time
    frame of processing of refund should be mentioned

    63. Clause 4.8 , i) iii) : Some where in the builder buyer agreement a similar
    letter should be given by builder to the buyer at the time of giving the
    possession of the flat

    64. Clause 4.8 : Time frame for the release of the payment should be mentioned
    else interest should be paid by the builder

    65. Clause 4.8 : It lists only the clauses for the agreement to be terminated
    by the buyer. What is the agreement is terminated by the builder. A Ernst money
    of 10% should be given as administrative charges , refund of all payments with
    interest and damages should be paid by the builder.

    66. Clause 4.11 : This is a extremely high amount, I am sure the company is not
    an a NBFC. Normal banks do not charge so high. Charges for any reason apart from
    balance issues should not be charged so much. Especially when the payment is
    getting made through a home loan etc.

    67. Clause 5.1 : Why is the the agreement talking of "all buyers", why should I
    as a one of the buyer sign on behalf of "all buyers". Why should my possession
    be delayed if any other person is not fulfilling his/her commitment.

    68. Clause 5.5 :Like in allotment letter, the amount the builder should pay
    should be based on the super area.

    69. Clause 5.5 : Please mention the time frame that the company will process
    the refund

    70. Clause 5.6 : The clause does not cover the position when the builder says
    that the flat is ready but the buyer is not satisfied with the finishing
    (biggest example the common wealth game village.. broken stairs , non
    functioning lifts, filthy toilets etc). Why would a buyer pay holding charges in
    such case

    71. Clause 5.7 : How come the builder charges holding charges (clause 5.6) but
    at the same time be not responsible for fitting etc under clause 5.7.

    72. Clause 5.6/5.7 : Would the charges be interest free??? Nothing mentioned
    about these charges interest in any clause of allotment letter or the builder
    buyer agreement.

    73. Clause 6.3 : From Internet we understand that through notification "No.
    398(2)/LXXIX-V-1-10-1(ka) 12-2010" on 13th Jult 2010 "THE UTTAR PRADESH
    APARTMENT (PROMOTION OF CONSTRUCTION, OWNERSHIP AND MAINTENANCE)" act has come
    in force. But still as on date the builder buyer agreement is reference to the
    old act which is not that buyer friendly. The copy of act is also available on
    the home page of "Housing and Urban Planning Department, UP"

    74. Clause 6.3 : How is that builder taking ownership of public amenities ,
    business lounges etc which I would term as "Commercial Activities" when these
    are not owned by the society or other such body formed.

    75. Clause 6.4 : Why should only the buyer agree to sign such document. Why
    shouldn't the company also such sign such document to safeguard the interest of
    other documents.

    76. Clause 6.5 : Administrative charges should not be arbitrary, please let us
    know the current administrative charges and the basis for the same.

    77. Clause 7.2 : Why would buyer pay to company. Buyer will pay to society and
    society will pay to the maintenance company. Why should the buyer pay
    maintainance for the first of the month when the buyer is getting possession
    after later the month.

    78. Clause 7.3 : Why should the buyer sign such a maintenance agreement, it
    should be signed with the society that would be formed.

    79. Clause 8.1 a) If we are chainging the flooring or POP work on ceiling we
    would not be permitted to do so under the given clause

    80. Clause 8.1 d) Grill on balconies should be pemitted this is required
    keeping life security in consideration for the high rise

    81. Clause 8.1 j) It does not allow us to drill and put a nail for curtain or
    painting on a wall

    82. Clause 8.1 l) does not allow us to keep the domestic LPG cylinder at hour
    home

    83. Clause 8.2 c) As asked in Allotment letter section, The 3C group is one of
    the promoters of the project, though the name of society does not changes but
    since the project is executed by GGPPL, the 3C group or GGPPL should keep the
    buyer indemnified of any claims arising but other promoters of the GGPPL
    regarding the same.

    84. Clause 9.1 : Please share the limitations in lease deed, are we referring
    to the sub lease deed that buyer would be signing or the lease deed signed by
    the builder with the Authority., We do not understand or assume the same.

    85. Clause 9.14 : Builder should also keep the buyer indemnified of any claims
    from financers due to such arrangements
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  • Specifications & Misc

    SPECIFICATIONS

    86. Please advise if the flats would have solar geysers (as it's a green
    building concept). If not then atleast a option for a flat buyer to get the same
    installed (this requires a parallel water supply for hot water from roof.

    87. Please advise, I want some extra wiring (maybe at my cost) so that my
    electronic gadgets like wireless network etc can be installed without a visible
    external wiring. Would that be possible?

    88. The Builder buy agreement is slient on the technology for the construction
    of houses. I know that RCC frame is quite popular but it is not the only
    technology. There are other technologies like "Prestressed concrete" etc that
    compliment the RCC. No where in the specs or any where its written what would
    be the construction technology/method.

    89. The specification mentioned washbasin for the toilets but does not mention
    of the same for servant toilet does that mean there would be no Washbasin in the
    servant toilet and the hence the nearest washbasin would be kitchen?

    90. Please advise if empty conduits be available for later wiring for DTH
    wiring from roof / Air conditioners or we will have to get it done post we take
    possession of house.

    91. What would be the wiring specifications, I want Copper wiring (read: less
    resistance, better quality of wire)

    92. Is there any rain harvesting and other green initiatives part of the
    housing project. If yes why are they missing from the agreement.



    Misclleneous

    93. As mentioned in your marketing material, please mention the differentiators
    for your projects like different kinds of bricks (hollow from inside) being used

    94. Please share the expected dates of payments for my particular building

    95. Why are the building layout plan , tower floor layout plan not part of
    builder buy agreement. My decision for the flat (5-7 or highest -1 , east entry
    , numerology etc) get nullified as the building floor plan and building layout
    plan is not part of the agreement or allotment letter

    96. If the builder starts increasing the number of buildings and/or floors then
    the same comman area would be shared by more number of houses. How would the
    super area of existing flats adjusted and compensated for the same?

    97. There are many small small defects that keep on coming when the house is
    used for living (like choked drains, switches not working etc) as a result most
    of the builders provide a free maintenance assistance for internal for a period
    of 2/3 years under which wirings , plumbing etc is carried out for free. Is
    there any such thing being offered to buyer from the builder. What about if the
    structure develops inherit weeknesses , cracks within 1 year of possession?
    CommentQuote
  • A great analysis.

    Any response from the 3C?
    CommentQuote