I am writing below a simple method to calculate super area of a flat by measuring the tower. I have assumed same area for each flat - obviously for different sized flats, proportion will be calculated by subtracting built up area total from super area total and then dividing by total number of flats and adding to built up area.

But is the basic measurement method below correct, or can it be criticised?

Calculation of Super area: Simple method for measurement of super area of a high rise tower of 17 floors i.e ground plus 16 floors with terrace.

Measurements:

1.x09Go to the terrace and measure the perimeter of the parapet measuring from outside wall to outside wall.

2.x09Look over the parapet on all sides. If any balcony is visible, then it is outside the perimeter and must be measures separately. However most high rises will not have any jutting balconies.

3.x09Measure the lift shaft – since the shaft has only one floor and has only air in between.

4.x09Measure the lift machinery housing room.

5.x09Measure the cement tank on the roof top.

6.x09Measure the lift lobby and staircase area on basement 1 and basement 2 separately.

7.x09If the tower has a double height lobby, measure the lobby.

Calculation.

1.x09Calculate area of the terrace T =L x B

2.x09Subtract the lift area from T to get Ta

3.x09Multiple it by 17 to get the total area of each floor including all flats, staircases, corridors etc i.e. Area = Ta x 17. This includes now area of terrace and area of each floor.

4.x09Add to Area the area of basement lobbies, area of the lift shaft, area of lift machinery housing and overhead tank area. Add jutting balconies if they exist

5.x09Final area is now calculated

6.x09Divide final area by the total number of flats to get the super area of the flat.

Notes:

1.x09Parking is charged separately and hence parking area in basement is not to be included in the super area calculation

2.x09Parking ramp is related to parking and is not part of super area

3.x09Lifts have only one floor and hence should be included only once, not 18 times

4.x09Lift housing is to be added once

5.x09Tank is to be added once

6.x09Staircase area is automatically included. Staircase area is based on its projection on the floor and no mezannine level calculations are necessary.

7.x09Basement has only lift lobby or lobbies which are part of super area. Rest of basement is either parking or is basement storage which is being separately sold by the builder.

8.x09In theory, super area cannot be ever more than the area calculated by the outer perimeter of the tower.

9.x09In theory, super area can be less than the area calculated by the outer perimeter since some floors are located well inside the outer perimeter by insets, especially ground floor. Practically this can be ignored

Calculation for different sized flats:

1.x09Measure the insides of all rooms, bathrooms and balconies

2.x09Measure the thickness of all inside walls

3.x09Measure the thickness of all outside walls

4.x09Measure the thickness of all common walls to be divided by half

5.x09Write the measurement of all rooms with wall thickness added to it

6.x09Calculate the built up area using the corrected measurements for wall thickness

7.x09Do this for all flats in one floor assuming all floors are identical. Multiple by 17.

8.x09Calculate total built up area of all flats in the tower

9.x09From the super built up area, subtract the total built up area

10.x09Divide super area reminder by the total number of flats in the tower to get the per flat super area reminder

11.x09Add the super area reminder to the actual built up area of the individual flat to get the super built up area of that flat
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  • Let us take an example
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  • Let us make a simpler measurement of the 1870 flat for taking super area considering one rectangle from front door and adding the toilet and servant room separately. So length will be

    1 (wall) + 9 (kitchen) + 1 (assuming 1 foot wall) + 19.7 (drawing room) + 1 (again) + 11.6 (master bed room) + 5 (dressing room) + 1 (outer wall)
    = 49.3 feet is the length

    1 (outer wall) + 15.2 (master bed room width) + 1 (wall) + 13 (smaller bed room on right) + 1 (outer wall) = 31.2 feet is the breadth

    1538 is the area by multiplying the length and breadth.

    To this we add the area of balcony = 11.9 x 5 (since no walls) = 59.5

    And toilet dimensions are width 5 + 1 = 6 (other wall already included above) and length 8.8 +1+1 = 10.8 so area = 64.8

    Worker room plus utility will be width 6.11 + 1 = 7.11 (other wall already included) and length 7 + 1 + 4.2 + 1 = 13.2 so area = 93.85

    Worker toilet width = 5.3 + 1 + 0.7 = 7 and other is 4 + 1 = 5 so area = 35

    TOTAL BUILT UP AREA IS THUS 35+93.85+64.8+59.5+1538= 1791 square feet.

    This is 95% of the actual area of 1870 sf. For the 1550 also let us take a 95% as built up area = 1472.

    Now if we see the second plan, the corridors and staircases can be approximately estimated.

    Let us say a corridor of 45 x 5 and another of 45 x 5 assuming 5 feet wide, including the wall thickness = 450 sf. Staircase = 13 x 8 internal. 15 x 10 External = 150.

    So area of one floor will be 750 sf of extra area for corridors and staircase.

    Now in all this I have taken generous wall thickness of 1 foot and I am sure actual area will be lesser because most internal walls are going to be 7 inch walls. I will undertake a more accurate calculation later.

    So ball park calculation for internal area will be 1472x2+1791x2+750=7276 per floor.

    Terrace = 7276
    Lift room=500
    Tank=1000
    basement lobby=1000

    Total super area will be 7276x18+2500= 133468. This will be divided by 68 flats in the building yielding 1962 sf.

    1962-1870= 92 which is 4.9 percent.

    So even by a generous overestimate of the wall thickness and corridor sizes, at best a 5% increase in super area is only possible. So if they come up with a 16% increase in super area they are clearly going to be wrong.
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Let us make a simpler measurement of the 1870 flat for taking super area considering one rectangle from front door and adding the toilet and servant room separately. So length will be

    1 (wall) + 9 (kitchen) + 1 (assuming 1 foot wall) + 19.7 (drawing room) + 1 (again) + 11.6 (master bed room) + 5 (dressing room) + 1 (outer wall)
    = 49.3 feet is the length

    1 (outer wall) + 15.2 (master bed room width) + 1 (wall) + 13 (smaller bed room on right) + 1 (outer wall) = 31.2 feet is the breadth

    1538 is the area by multiplying the length and breadth.

    To this we add the area of balcony = 11.9 x 5 (since no walls) = 59.5

    And toilet dimensions are width 5 + 1 = 6 (other wall already included above) and length 8.8 +1+1 = 10.8 so area = 64.8

    Worker room plus utility will be width 6.11 + 1 = 7.11 (other wall already included) and length 7 + 1 + 4.2 + 1 = 13.2 so area = 93.85

    Worker toilet width = 5.3 + 1 + 0.7 = 7 and other is 4 + 1 = 5 so area = 35

    TOTAL BUILT UP AREA IS THUS 35+93.85+64.8+59.5+1538= 1791 square feet.

    Now if we see the second plan, the corridors and staircases can be approximately estimated.


    Venky really short on time, Ill study n feedback more. Step 10 assumes a repeatable floor plan which is often not the case and there r other aspects. In Kalypso for eg this method will fail

    I really do admire you for all the recent effort. May I atleast make the needed contribution (need modalities)

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
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  • Thanks Dinesh. I agree, calculations with actual measurements will be more tedious. But my thinking is to do it for Pavillion Heights where threy have said 16% increase.

    I am sure by actual measurements it wont be 16%. It might be minus 10%.

    The example I took above was my own, which I had selected because of 74% being carpet area - this selected for low loading. But if we take flats with already higher loading in the flat, then super area is likely to decrease.

    I request people who have bought flats in Pavillion Heights to please upload their floor plan (both plans, like I have done for mine) - so that we can estimate the actual ball park super area figure - and determine whether there is wrongdoing by JP or not.

    Pavillion Heights - please step up
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  • I am unable to get proper drawings for Pavillion court. JP Web site has a 1BHK 2BHK and 3 BHK floor.

    Does anyone know whether all floors are same and the entire floor layout plan including corridors?

    Some inputs would be welcome - in the delivered towers, what are the flat sizes?

    Google search is coming up empty.
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  • Instead of going in to measurement chakkar and all associated donkey works, why not ask Jaypee to submit original drawings and calculations in support of Original Super Area and drawings/ calculations in support of Revised Super Area. It is never a job of flat buyer to make measurements. It is the responsibility of builder to provide written justification in support for extra super area claim.

    When I say drawings i mean Noida Authority approved drawings which has all dimensions written and there is always a table giving detailed calculation of built-up area, plinth area and FAR area. If Jaypee claims that super area has changed, then it is obvious that built-up area of blocks has also changed and thus logically Jaypee must have obtained revised approved drawings from Noida Authority.

    PS: Just my suggestion, I am not a buyer in Wish Town.
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  • Originally Posted by Basant
    Instead of going in to measurement chakkar and all associated donkey works, why not ask Jaypee to submit original drawings and calculations in support of Original Super Area and drawings/ calculations in support of Revised Super Area. It is never a job of flat buyer to make measurements. It is the responsibility of builder to provide written justification in support for extra super area claim.

    When I say drawings i mean Noida Authority approved drawings which has all dimensions written and there is always a table giving detailed calculation of built-up area, plinth area and FAR area. If Jaypee claims that super area has changed, then it is obvious that built-up area of blocks has also changed and thus logically Jaypee must have obtained revised approved drawings from Noida Authority.

    PS: Just my suggestion, I am not a buyer in Wish Town.


    I agree, if we get drawing approved by NA, Calculating area will become easier. I have seen drawings of another project and by that calculating areas is easy.
    But I am not sure if there is any legal standard/rule/guideline by which super area is calculated. Authorities have rules for calculating FAR uses but that doesn't apply on super area (sure of it).
    Some confusions are:
    1) What about lift shaft? to include once or multiplied by floor?
    2) What about club area and out of tower facilities like generator room etc.?

    In most probably Jaypee has changed something in way super area is calculated (by reinterpreting rules) and this caused in increase of super area. So to catch Jaypee we need to find out these modalities and if there is any rule there?
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  • Basant bro.. jp is ready to share the final drawing to buyer with justification and will allow us to do actual measurement as well by an independent architect... Venky is contemplating it further to have thorough understanding of the structure so as to avoid any mistake in measuremnt which might not favour us..
    Originally Posted by Basant
    Instead of going in to measurement chakkar and all associated donkey works, why not ask Jaypee to submit original drawings and calculations in support of Original Super Area and drawings/ calculations in support of Revised Super Area. It is never a job of flat buyer to make measurements. It is the responsibility of builder to provide written justification in support for extra super area claim.

    When I say drawings i mean Noida Authority approved drawings which has all dimensions written and there is always a table giving detailed calculation of built-up area, plinth area and FAR area. If Jaypee claims that super area has changed, then it is obvious that built-up area of blocks has also changed and thus logically Jaypee must have obtained revised approved drawings from Noida Authority.

    PS: Just my suggestion, I am not a buyer in Wish Town.
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  • Almost all builders include the club area also and divide it by number of units
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  • Club area cannot be included and anyway JP is not saying. If you see above calculation, about 30% is anyway going. However one foot difference of measurement makes massive difference to the area. In above example, I have used generous wall thick ness of 1 foot. Let me give example.

    43 x 41 = 1763.

    45 x 43 = 1935

    1763/1935 x 100 = 91.11.

    35 x 33 = 1155

    33 x 31 = 1023 which is 88.5 % of the dimension with wall on both sides. That means for most sizes of apartments, the theoretical minimum loading possible of built up area to carpet area is around 10%.For almost all increases of 2 feet by 2 feet - i.e. wall on both sides, percentage works out about 10% loading

    However almost no flat is a bare shell with only walls on the exterior - which is the assumption above. There are interior walls also, whose thick ness comes and increases the built up area by more than 10%. In the above example, flat was sold as super area 1870, carpet area was 1422 and the generously calculated built up area was 1791 i.e the ratio of carpet area to the built up area is 1422/1791 x 100 = 79.3%. So a ball park figure of 20% was coming.

    But because even a difference of 1 foot in measurement makes difference of around 40 square feet in area, accurate measurement is essential. I will later on recalculate with wall thickness of 0.5 feet internally also.

    Super area is adding about 10% to the built up area.

    As a rule, for the best construction, built up area is 90% of the super area and carpet area is about 80% of the super area (and 90% of the built up area).

    This is what I said in the meeting also - built up area is about 10% more than carpet area and super area is about 10% more than built up area. Assuming a lot of internal walls and complicated interiors, at best carpet area is about 75% of the super area.

    Anything less than 75% means builder is cheating you.

    For my own flat I expect super area to be exactly 1870 as promised by the builder unless the rooms are smaller. If they say super area has increased, rooms have to be larger.

    That is why I want to check the Pavillion Courts - is it lie or truth?

    Any loading beyond 25% will be a lie
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  • Originally Posted by McLordGanj
    Almost all builders include the club area also and divide it by number of units

    JP has defined what is and what is not part of super area in their contract. Club is not part of super area per their definition.
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Club area cannot be included and anyway JP is not saying. If you see above calculation, about 30% is anyway going. However one foot difference of measurement makes massive difference to the area. In above example, I have used generous wall thick ness of 1 foot. Let me give example.

    43 x 41 = 1763.

    45 x 43 = 1935

    1763/1935 x 100 = 91.11.

    35 x 33 = 1155

    33 x 31 = 1023 which is 88.5 % of the dimension with wall on both sides. That means for most sizes of apartments, the theoretical minimum loading possible of built up area to carpet area is around 10%.For almost all increases of 2 feet by 2 feet - i.e. wall on both sides, percentage works out about 10% loading

    However almost no flat is a bare shell with only walls on the exterior - which is the assumption above. There are interior walls also, whose thick ness comes and increases the built up area by more than 10%. In the above example, flat was sold as super area 1870, carpet area was 1422 and the generously calculated built up area was 1791 i.e the ratio of carpet area to the built up area is 1422/1791 x 100 = 79.3%. So a ball park figure of 20% was coming.

    But because even a difference of 1 foot in measurement makes difference of around 40 square feet in area, accurate measurement is essential. I will later on recalculate with wall thickness of 0.5 feet internally also.

    Super area is adding about 10% to the built up area.

    As a rule, for the best construction, built up area is 90% of the super area and carpet area is about 80% of the super area (and 90% of the built up area).

    This is what I said in the meeting also - built up area is about 10% more than carpet area and super area is about 10% more than built up area. Assuming a lot of internal walls and complicated interiors, at best carpet area is about 75% of the super area.

    Anything less than 75% means builder is cheating you.

    For my own flat I expect super area to be exactly 1870 as promised by the builder unless the rooms are smaller. If they say super area has increased, rooms have to be larger.

    That is why I want to check the Pavillion Courts - is it lie or truth?

    Any loading beyond 25% will be a lie

    I and otheres have been doing theoretical calculation that you can find here:https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/12229-the-pavilion-court-by-jaypee-greens-in-sector-128-noida/page271?t=14529&page=271
    and here
    https://www.indianrealestateforum.com/forum/city-forums/ncr-real-estate/noida-real-estate/12229-the-pavilion-court-by-jaypee-greens-in-sector-128-noida/page286?t=14529&page=286
    Jaypee's explanation of super area is attached. My calculation of built up are is at least 60-70 sq. ft. lower and I have no way to calculate super area withou jaypee providing further details.
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  • Originally Posted by Basant
    Instead of going in to measurement chakkar and all associated donkey works, why not ask Jaypee to submit original drawings and calculations in support of Original Super Area and drawings/ calculations in support of Revised Super Area. It is never a job of flat buyer to make measurements. It is the responsibility of builder to provide written justification in support for extra super area claim.

    When I say drawings i mean Noida Authority approved drawings which has all dimensions written and there is always a table giving detailed calculation of built-up area, plinth area and FAR area. If Jaypee claims that super area has changed, then it is obvious that built-up area of blocks has also changed and thus logically Jaypee must have obtained revised approved drawings from Noida Authority.

    PS: Just my suggestion, I am not a buyer in Wish Town.
    Have asked and was ignored
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  • This calculation shown by Jaypee of 462 square feet PER FLAT is clearly impossible.

    Again - I need at least the basic outline floor plans - the scan uploaded by you Cuckoo is incomplete and anyway doesnt have the corridor sizes.

    Have they giver extra wide corridors? Enormous lift lobbies? Massive entrance lobby? Is there some super large canopy at 6 square feet per flat? How on earth has 30 square feet of lift PER FLAT come - a lift shaft has only one area at basement - rest of it is just empty air. They cannot calculate lift area at 30 square feet per flat. There is something wrong - 325 square feet of common area is simple not possible unless everything is double size. In my own flat my ball park calculation was something like 171 square feet based on the drawing I uploaded - are the common areas of PC three times as big as Kosmos? Seems impossible.

    What was the original size of these flats which have now become 1820?

    Are these mixtures of 1, 2 and 3 BHK or do you have only 3 BHK? I see 11 floors in the pictures. How many flats per floor?

    I SMELL A MASSIVE STINK NOW.

    We have to challenge this measurement.
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  • My answers in all caps below your queries:
    Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    This calculation shown by Jaypee of 462 square feet PER FLAT is clearly impossible.
    YOUR GUESS IS AS GOOD AS MINE
    Again - I need at least the basic outline floor plans - the scan uploaded by you Cuckoo is incomplete and anyway doesnt have the corridor sizes.
    JP HAS NOT PROVIDED ANY PLANS WITH COMMON AREA DIMESIONS, THIS IS ALL WE HAVE TILL DATE. IN RESPONSE TO THE CALCULATION OF SUPER AREA PER FLAT I ASKED FOR THE DETAILS OF COMMON AREA CALCULATION. I WILL PROVIDE JP'S NON-RESPONSE IN A SEPARATE POST BELOW
    Have they giver extra wide corridors? Enormous lift lobbies? Massive entrance lobby? Is there some super large canopy at 6 square feet per flat? How on earth has 30 square feet of lift PER FLAT come - a lift shaft has only one area at basement - rest of it is just empty air. They cannot calculate lift area at 30 square feet per flat.
    APPARENTLY THEY CAN MULTIPLY THE LIFT AREA WITH NUMBER OF FLOORS. AT LEAST DINESHSAYS SAYS SO. SEE ONE OF THE THREAD LINKS TO IREF DISCUSSION THAT I PROVIDED IN FB POST
    There is something wrong - 325 square feet of common area is simple not possible unless everything is double size. In my own flat my ball park calculation was something like 171 square feet based on the drawing I uploaded - are the common areas of PC three times as big as Kosmos? Seems impossible.
    SURE, BUT TRUST JP TO MAKE IT POSSIBLE

    What was the original size of these flats which have now become 1820?
    1600 SQ. FT.

    Are these mixtures of 1, 2 and 3 BHK or do you have only 3 BHK? I see 11 floors in the pictures. How many flats per floor?
    THERE ARE 13 FLOORS INCLUDING GF. THEY ARE MIXED. SEE MY OTHER POST FOR BREAKUP OF UNITS PER TOWER

    I SMELL A MASSIVE STINK NOW.
    :)
    We have to challenge this measurement.
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