Hereby I will prove how the realty boomers arguments are false.

What are the boomers arguments?

1.) Buy today, houses always increase in value in the long run.
WRONG. House prices cannot increase more than incomes in the long run. This is obvious if you think about it. If house prices go up more than people can afford to pay, buying stops, like it has stopped now.
Even Warren Buffett have pointed out that houses don't increase in intrinsic value. Unless there's a bubble or a crash, house prices simply reflect current salaries and interest rates. If a house is 100 years old, it's value in sheltering you is exactly the same as it was 100 years ago. Then came the maintenance as the house didn't renovate itself. It also has taxes, and insurance - costs that always increase and never go away. The price of the house went up about as much as salaries went up.
To put this is simple perspective, vegetable were costing Rs.5-6/kg when 5 digit salary was a rarity.
Today, the prices have gone up by about 4 times but so have the salaries. So, sounds very much like the reasoning people use now when they talk about how much their father's house appreciated "in the long run" without considering that salaries rose a proportional amount.

2.) Renting is just wastage of money.
WRONG. As said before renting is now much cheaper per month than owning. If you don't rent, you either:

* Have a mortgage, in which case you are throwing away money on interest, tax, insurance, maintenance, costs that increase forever.
* Own outright, in which case you are throwing away the extra income you could get by converting your house to cash, investing in bonds, and renting a similar place to live for much less money. This extra income is sufficient for emergency expenses,retirement etc.

Either way, owners lose much more money every month than renters and that's assuming prices don't correct to very high level & everything is smooth in the economy.

3.) As a renter, you won't have any money left as you will spend them on vacations,cars & hence won't have equity/savings etc.
WRONG. Equity is just money. Renters are actually in a better position to build equity/savings through investing in anything but housing. Renters can get rich much faster than owners, just by investing in conservative stocks & bonds.

* Owners are losing every month by paying much more for interest than they would pay for rent. The tax deduction does not come close to making owing competitive with renting.
* Owners must pay taxes simply to own a house. That is not true of stocks, bonds, or any other asset that can build equity/savings. Only houses are such a guaranteed drain on cash.
* Owners must insure a house, but not most other investments.
* Owners must pay to repair a house, but not a stock or a bond.
* Owners lose their money as house prices reduce. The EMI's remain constant in spite of reduction in rates. At the end of loan tenure, they would have paid almost twice than that of current renters who will buy at logical rates. Keep interest rates in mind. Most of the EMI is not principal amount but interest.

4.) There are great tax advantages to owning a house.
WRONG. Many people believe you can just reduce your income tax by the amount you pay in interest, but they are wrong. Buyers may not deduct interest from income tax; they deduct interest from taxable income. And even then, the tax advantage is not significant compared to the large monthly loss from owning.

If you don't own a house but want to live in one, your choice is to rent a house or rent money to buy a house. To rent money is to take out a loan. A mortgage is a money-rental agreement. House renters take no risk at all, but money-renting owners take on the huge risk of falling house prices, as well as all the costs of repairs, insurance, property taxes, etc.

5.) RE is based on local factors, it's not a national phenomenon. RE of Delhi-NCR,Bangalore & rest of the cities has nothing to do with Pune RE.
WRONG. Lending rates remain the same throughout the country. ALL loans are harder to get. This will drive prices down everywhere.

6.) A rental house provides good income. So, you can rent if you have purchased as investment.
WRONG. Rental houses provide very poor income in hyped areas and certainly cannot cover mortgage payments. Remember there is almost 300% difference between EMIs & rent for the same house.

It's pointless to do the work of being a landlord if you can make more money with no risk, no work, and no state income tax by investing in assured good returns bond.

7.) If owning is a loss in monthly cash flow, but appreciation will make up for it.
WRONG. Appreciation is negative. Prices are going down. It only adds to the injury of already high EMI's.

8.) As soon as prices drop a little, the number of buyers on the sidelines willing to jump back in increases.
WRONG. There are very few buyers left, and those who do want to buy will be limited by increasing difficulty of borrowing now that many house owners are near bankrupt as they don't save anything at the end of the month due to high EMI's.
No one has to buy, but there will be more and more people who have no choice but to sell as their payments rise. That will keep driving prices downward for a long time.

9.) House prices never fall atleast in Pune.
WRONG. If you see the RE scenario of 1996, prices crashed by 50% & took a whole 7+ years to recover.
Exact 1996 scenario may not be there today but strong correction is inevitable across the city.

10.) House prices don't fall to zero like stock prices, so it's safer to invest in real estate.
WRONG. House prices won't be zero, but the equity or the principal amount you paid can be zero or even negative. What you will pay as EMIs later in actual terms is not for the principal amount but only the interest as house prices dip. So, you will be only serving the bank.

11.) Prices will soften gradually, won't crash immediately.
WRONG. Prices are falling off a cliff. No one knows exactly what will happen, but it looks like prices will continue to fall for long time. These are just more manipulation of buyer emotions, to get them to buy even while prices are falling.

12.) The bubble prices were driven by supply and demand alone.
WRONG. Prices were driven by low interest rates and risky loans & good returns for investors in initial phases of boom in 2004-05.
Prices went up, interest rates went up & buyers savings went down. So prices are violating the most basic assumptions about supply and demand.

13.) There is lack of land.
WRONG. Ample of land is available & continue to be even in future in Pune. Sales volume are down. Even in Japan (small country with less land), prices went down. Current prices here are the same as that of 23 years ago. If we really had a housing shortage, there would not be so many vacant rentals.

14.) If you don't own, you'll live in a cheap neighborhood later.
WRONG. For the any given monthly payment, you can rent a much better house than you can buy. Renters live better, not worse. There are downsides to renting, such as being told to move at the end of your lease, or having your rent raised, but since there are thousands of vacant rentals, you can take your pick and be quite happy renting during the crash. There are similar but worse problems for owners anyway, such as being fired and losing your house, or having your interest rate and property taxes adjust upward. Remember, property taxes are forever.

15.) There's always someone predicting a real estate crash.
TRUE, yet irrelevant. There are very real crashes every decade or so. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

16.) Local incomes justify the high prices.
WRONG. The mortgage should be more than your 3 years earning. It is much higher today. Most are already in danger/red zone.

17.) You have to live somewhere.
CORRECT. But that doesn't mean you should waste your life savings on a bad investment. You can live in a better house for much less money by renting during the down slide in RE.

18.) It's not a house, it's a home.
WRONG. Wherever one lives in it is home, be it apartment, condo, bungalow , mansion or house. Calling a house a "home" is a manipulation of your emotions for profit.

19.) If you don't buy now, you'll never get another chance.
WRONG. History proves otherwise.
Here's a beautiful quote from a analyst:-
"The real issue isn't whether you will be stuck being a renter all your life, she says. Its whether you'll get so scared about being shut out that you'll buy at the market's peak and be stuck in a property you can't afford or sell."

20.) It would take major economic recession or a major earthquake that wipes out this area in order for the price to fall by over 50%.
WRONG. Even today, if the prices fall by 50%, there will still be very few people who can buy at this levels due to uncertainty in jobs & most importantly high EMIs. Also, look at the rental rates for equivalent houses. Which loss per month is larger? EMI or rent?

contd....
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  • GSLV is not a one off story ...

    Originally Posted by harshalx
    As a people whose primary motive should be to better the quality of life for every other person who lives in the country, we have consistently failed. Our problem was never on the individual front. Even in Kenya and Zimbabwe you'll find inspiring one off stories which will surprise you.


    To be able to consistently launch satellites into Geo orbit and make it a commercially viable enterprise which is significantly cheaper as well as getting advanced countries to book your launch capacity years ahead is certainly NOT a one-off story as you would like all to believe.

    It requires decades of many hundreds of people working (and making mistakes) in some pretty advanced fields to build that kind of capability. We are only one of a handful of countries that can do this.

    So, please be careful about being too casual about these kinds of things unless of course you happened to work in ISRO and can tell us that all of that is a sham.

    I for one personally know some of the top scientist-managers in NAL (and ISRO) and these are people who have earlier in their career made a name in companies like MBB, NASA and some Russian Aerospace companies and have worked for decades within our companies. They are among the top guys in their field worldwide and are sought after for very high-priced consultancy (not out IT bodyshopping types) even when they are in their 60s.

    There are many others ...

    For you to be so casual about this kind of caliber, you must be some REAL hotshot in your field, right Harsha?!

    cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    To be able to consistently launch satellites into Geo orbit and make it a commercially viable enterprise which is significantly cheaper as well as getting advanced countries to book your launch capacity years ahead is certainly NOT a one-off story as you would like all to believe.

    It requires decades of many hundreds of people working (and making mistakes) in some pretty advanced fields to build that kind of capability. We are only one of a handful of countries that can do this.

    So, please be careful about being too casual about these kinds of things unless of course you happened to work in ISRO and can tell us that all of that is a sham.

    I for one personally know some of the top scientist-managers in NAL (and ISRO) and these are people who have earlier in their career made a name in companies like MBB, NASA and some Russian Aerospace companies and have worked for decades within our companies. They are among the top guys in their field worldwide and are sought after for very high-priced consultancy (not out IT bodyshopping types) even when they are in their 60s.

    There are many others ...

    For you to be so casual about this kind of caliber, you must be some REAL hotshot in your field, right Harsha?!

    cheers


    Wiseman,

    As usual you have already missed the main point and gotten very possessive about the points on the borderline.

    And that is very un-wise. Especially for wiseman.

    My claim was simple. Govt should care only about welfare of its people. That should be its primary motive. We have failed in that. Whereas in North american and West Eurpoean countries Govts have done as much for their people as they did for corruption.

    You just turned the discussion. That does not bear well on the debate.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by harshalx
    As a people whose primary motive should be to better the quality of life for every other person who lives in the country, we have consistently failed. Our problem was never on the individual front. Even in Kenya and Zimbabwe you'll find inspiring one off stories which will surprise you.


    correct..

    latest feather in our cap: Common Wealth Games :D

    inspiring.. isnt it
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by harshalx
    Wiseman,

    As usual you have already missed the main point and gotten very possessive about the points on the borderline.

    And that is very un-wise. Especially for wiseman.

    My claim was simple. Govt should care only about welfare of its people. That should be its primary motive. We have failed in that. Whereas in North american and West Eurpoean countries Govts have done as much for their people as they did for corruption.

    You just turned the discussion. That does not bear well on the debate.


    All things which were mentioned be it launching of GSLV or building the supercomputer are indeed part of the people welfare agenda. What makes you think that these things are not needed for people welfare or for overall progress of our nation? Do you think that government should only concentrate on giving food/shelter to the needy and only provide social security benefits?

    I do not say that our governments have done enough for the social welfare, but its not like they are doing nothing. All efforts done by the government go in vain due to corruption. And corruption is not something promoted by the government. We as a society are responsible for all good/bad things happening here.

    When we say there are bad/corrupt people in India, we must also add that there are good and capable people too in India. Its our way of looking at things around us which makes it a good India or bad India.

    Just to restate my words, India and Indians are capable of achieving any success provided they decide to achieve it. :bab (6):
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    To be able to consistently launch satellites into Geo orbit and make it a commercially viable enterprise which is significantly cheaper as well as getting advanced countries to book your launch capacity years ahead is certainly NOT a one-off story as you would like all to believe.

    It requires decades of many hundreds of people working (and making mistakes) in some pretty advanced fields to build that kind of capability. We are only one of a handful of countries that can do this.

    So, please be careful about being too casual about these kinds of things unless of course you happened to work in ISRO and can tell us that all of that is a sham.

    I for one personally know some of the top scientist-managers in NAL (and ISRO) and these are people who have earlier in their career made a name in companies like MBB, NASA and some Russian Aerospace companies and have worked for decades within our companies. They are among the top guys in their field worldwide and are sought after for very high-priced consultancy (not out IT bodyshopping types) even when they are in their 60s.

    There are many others ...

    For you to be so casual about this kind of caliber, you must be some REAL hotshot in your field, right Harsha?!

    cheers


    Unfortunately, our space program is misplaced priority. All these scientists and engineers working on Chandrayan should have been put to work in setting up a proper ballistic missile delivery system for our nukes - where we badly lag both Pakistan and China.

    Our only spece ventures should be military satellite systems and spy satellites.

    Currently we dont have a credible nuclear delivery option, making us very vulnerable to conventional attack with threat of nuclear war. Most of our missiles are 2 decade old technology which doesnt even work properly.

    People just dont know what they are doing. We can make more money by exporting Hero Honda motorcycles, which are of excellent quality viv-a-vis Chinese, than by trying to monetise our space program which is basically capital destruction with no viable return.

    Please remember that most of out IIT graduates do not join our space program or even BARC - they mostly sell biscuits or insurance - because the money is there. Our space and atomic programs run totally on second rung colleges and physics students from whom the best are picked up with superhuman efforts from the HR departments sifting 2-3000 graduates to select one capable person.

    If I was running the country, I would ban our IIT engineers from leaving the country or working in unrelated fields. And I would put security needs over boasting rights - which is all our space program is about.
    CommentQuote
  • We may be digressing a bit here, but ...

    Originally Posted by harshalx
    Wiseman,

    As usual you have already missed the main point and gotten very possessive about the points on the borderline.

    And that is very un-wise. Especially for wiseman.

    My claim was simple. Govt should care only about welfare of its people. That should be its primary motive. We have failed in that. Whereas in North american and West Eurpoean countries Govts have done as much for their people as they did for corruption.

    You just turned the discussion. That does not bear well on the debate.



    Harsha,

    I'm not getting possessive about anything. Only providing a balanced view about difficult to do things that are trivialised by others. In fact, the generallization you have done about

    North american and West Eurpoean countries Govts have done as much for their people as they did for corruption

    is a very unbalanced view about how "they" are all good and "we" are all bad!

    Let is see how welfare-oriented the US and EU Govts really are!

    - Is it creating humongous, unsustainable bubbles and goading people to become impoverished with every third American home up for sale?

    - Is it bailing out banks at the cost of the taxpayer exclusively while its been them who has been conservative about their wealth?

    - Is it crerating rules that make so-called "democratic" countries (like the US) only a few steps away from becoming fascist?

    - Is it creating an entity like the FED, only looking after the crony capitalists (like the JPMorgans, Rockfellers, Kennedys and Bushs) and forcing the Dollar to lose 96% of its value in the last 96 years?

    - Is it blackmailing the entire Congress of the US with "collapse" of the financial system to force them to fork out trillions of future taxpayer money and be completely opaque about where its being spent (the FED fights tooth and nail when people want the bailout details published)?

    - Is it making the rules of the country itself so crooked that the thieves who loot the country actually do it legally?

    Well, let us see ...

    The RBI is considered (arguably) the best Central Bank in the world. The Indian Govt, which supposedly had one of the weakest financial systems in the world only a few years ago, seems to have suddenly transformed into possibly one of the few countries with an economic future in the near future ...

    So, really, isn't it you who has a very narrow, blinkered view about how this country (and its Govt) is the worst in everything. Obviously, you have had bad experiences and it seems to be colouring your entire perception about all things Indian (Government).

    I agree with you that a majority of politicians are totally corrupt and only look towards enriching themselves. But the Govt also includes many thousands of Bereaucrats and other Public Servants who work much harder (for much less than in the Private Sector) and they are in no way any less brighter than the Private Sector cousins.

    So, despite corruption being all-pervasive, let us not confuse that with out Govt NOT doing anything for the janta and, conversely the Western Govts doing everything for their citizens.

    Its not all Black and White, especially in the last few years.

    cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Dual use ...

    Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Unfortunately, our space program is misplaced priority. All these scientists and engineers working on Chandrayan should have been put to work in setting up a proper ballistic missile delivery system for our nukes - where we badly lag both Pakistan and China.

    Our only spece ventures should be military satellite systems and spy satellites.

    Currently we dont have a credible nuclear delivery option, making us very vulnerable to conventional attack with threat of nuclear war. Most of our missiles are 2 decade old technology which doesnt even work properly.

    People just dont know what they are doing. We can make more money by exporting Hero Honda motorcycles, which are of excellent quality viv-a-vis Chinese, than by trying to monetise our space program which is basically capital destruction with no viable return.

    Please remember that most of out IIT graduates do not join our space program or even BARC - they mostly sell biscuits or insurance - because the money is there. Our space and atomic programs run totally on second rung colleges and physics students from whom the best are picked up with superhuman efforts from the HR departments sifting 2-3000 graduates to select one capable person.

    If I was running the country, I would ban our IIT engineers from leaving the country or working in unrelated fields. And I would put security needs over boasting rights - which is all our space program is about.



    Our scientific, Govt and Defence establishments are not dumb. If you talk to people within, you will realise that some of our smartest (and definitely more knowledgeable) people are within these establishments.

    Simply because the Private Sector guys wear suits, speak accented English and have better PR only hides the pretty shallow nature of this sector. The challenges of the Govt, Defence, Space, etc are much harder which leads to these people putting in much more thinking and working into resolving these issues.

    Our space effort has spun off a lot of technology innovations which gets used by the commercial industry. Besides, a lot of technology gets developed indigenously which cannot be bought due to restrictions and a lot of technologies are dual-use for military purposes.

    I know from some friends out there that we are much closer to ICBMs and IRBMs than most people realise. Besides, for our defence purposes, our medium range missiles (with range of 3000kms) are adequate to address the main threat that we see (its not Europe or US or Russia).

    We could maybe do better, but show me one situation where Govts have done the absolute best (unless they were in the middle of a War, like the Germans in WWII, who, despite the severe problems they faced developed the must effective Jet Fighters-ME262, Tanks-Tigers, Battleships and Subs besides the most effective sub-machine-gun till the Kalashnikov came along; the Schmeiser MP 40).

    In fact the entire US Space program was based largely on German rocket scientists (Werner Von Braun, etc) and it is rumored that the Germans were already building a rocket that would hit the US from Germany and another one that would put a German on the moon! :)

    cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Our scientific, Govt and Defence establishments are not dumb. If you talk to people within, you will realise that some of our smartest (and definitely more knowledgeable) people are within these establishments.

    Agree totally

    Simply because the Private Sector guys wear suits, speak accented English and have better PR only hides the pretty shallow nature of this sector.

    The people (engineers) who enter here are all overqualified and capable - they are attracted with big salaries because pvt people dont want to interview 1000 people to find 1 gem. But BARC is forced to do this.

    The challenges of the Govt, Defence, Space, etc are much harder which leads to these people putting in much more thinking and working into resolving these issues.

    Exactly, our brightest minds wrestle with selling biscuits and buying up overpriced real estate as if it is a competition. They should be here - doing what our country needs.

    Our space effort has spun off a lot of technology innovations which gets used by the commercial industry. Besides, a lot of technology gets developed indigenously which cannot be bought due to restrictions and a lot of technologies are dual-use for military purposes.

    Not true, true for NASA only.

    I know from some friends out there that we are much closer to ICBMs and IRBMs than most people realise. Besides, for our defence purposes, our medium range missiles (with range of 3000kms) are adequate to address the main threat that we see.

    Our Prithvi, Agni basically dont work well. Pakistan has much smaller solid fuel propelled missiles capable of hitting anywhere in India. We do not have the speed hardenied silos needed for surviving a nuclear attack on our missile sites and lauch second - survivability is just not there.

    Currently our nuclear deterrent is based only on attack planes and disassembled airplane bombs - we do not have good designs for missile launched nukes.

    cheers


    Replies in blue
    CommentQuote
  • Our Missiles Are Strong

    Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Unfortunately, our space program is misplaced priority. All these scientists and engineers working on Chandrayan should have been put to work in setting up a proper ballistic missile delivery system for our nukes - where we badly lag both Pakistan and China.

    Currently we dont have a credible nuclear delivery option, making us very vulnerable to conventional attack with threat of nuclear war. Most of our missiles are 2 decade old technology which doesnt even work properly.

    Here are some facts:-

    India already has ICBM with ability to hit US, EU, Tokyo..let alone Beijing. If a country is the fifth to have GSLV/PSLV etc. do you expect it doesn't have ICBMs??:D Issue is this:-

    We don't want to send wrong signal to the world especially West by launching ICBMs as it shows a hostile feeling on diplomatic channels. Hence, we don't declare such tests & limit ourselves to China & Pak range.

    The missiles like Ghauri of Pak are nothing but Nodong-1 of North Korea which in turn have been supplied by China:bab (34):. Pak can't even build a desi katta, let alone missiles. It simply brings in missiles from N.Korea (which are actually Chinese) & assembles in Pak & test fires it. It is just like how we bring rockets during diwali & fly from a bottle:D.

    Man, our cruise missile:- Brahmos (Brahmaputra + Moscov) is the best & the only supersonic cruise missile in the world, much better than US's Tomahawk cruise missiles & this Brahmos can fly so low that even radar can't detect it:). This can be launched from submarine, frigate or even Sukhoi-30MKI (this jet is better than F-16 of Boeing or F-18 Superhornet of Lockheed Martin). This can be used for conventional warhead or nuclear warhead :).

    Btw, you know how Pakis names their missiles Ghauri?? When we launched Prithvi missiles (it was a part of series, Prithvi for surface to surface, Aakash for surface to air), Pakis thought it was named after Prithviraj Chauhan who was defeated by Mohammad Ghauri, so the name Ghauri...when Pakis came to know the real reason, they found themselves stupid:D. Btw, this Pritviraj had deafeated Ghauri for 13 times & let him free, next time Ghauri won & killed Pritviraj. Morale:- Never forgive enemy.

    *PS:- About 2 months ago India finally unveiled it's first indigenously built nuclear submarine, this project was top secret for past 7 years. Also, India has Trishul Class stealth frigates, some of these like INS Delhi & INS Talwar give pains to even Chinese Navy.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by realacres
    Here are some facts:-

    Pak can't even build a desi katta, let alone missiles.

    Btw, you know how Pakis names their missiles Ghauri?? When we launched Prithvi missiles (it was a part of series, Prithvi for surface to surface, Aakash for surface to air), Pakis thought it was named after Prithviraj Chauhan who was defeated by Mohammad Ghauri, so the name Ghauri...when Pakis came to know the real reason, they found themselves stupid:D. Btw, this Pritviraj had deafeated Ghauri for 13 times & let him free, next time Ghauri won & killed Pritviraj. Morale:- Never forgive enemy.


    Great analysis.. I always thinking, why they kept name Gauri :)

    Katta, this word reminds my childhood days :). I had not heard this word since many years :)
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Saurabh01
    Great analysis.. I always thinking, why they kept name Gauri :)

    Katta, this word reminds my childhood days :). I had not heard this word since many years :)


    i am assuming that your childhood katta is not the same 'katta' real is mentioning... :bab (34):
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by punerebuyer
    i am assuming that your childhood katta is not the same 'katta' real is mentioning... :bab (34):

    That time, I used both :)
    CommentQuote
  • back to the topic

    Alright,

    I'm not going to go further into the rhetoric that wiseman's advocating. Lets get back to the main problem and discuss as to how will we clean the political system to that it does what its supposed to do, take care of its people!

    Can somebody throw off some practical sustainable ideas?

    Here are some of mine:

    - The miniscule movements like PPI (Professionals Party of India) need to be supported by folks like us. We need to start being active members of the Party. At the end of the day, we need a force that can stand up to the biggies and that force will build one step at a time.

    - The change is going to come from within the Govt. We cannot stay out of the Govt and say that 'clean it up'. So how can we motivate the people to consider Govt positions? How can we motivate ourselves to take up Govt positions?

    - Corruption needs to be legalized to some extent. All Govt services need to have a 'Regular fee' and a 'Premium Fee' and 'tips'. Pls Don't misunderstand this (especially for people like wiseman).

    For e.g. If I need a passport within a day, rather than paying the agent Rs 5000 the officials in the Govt get the cut directly. In fact raising the premium processing fees to even 10000 is alright so that the benefit goes to everybody. However, checks need to be in place and working, so that the Rs 10k is not 'under-tabled' to 15k or 20k.

    This is not a solution to the problem, but is just a practical, workable technique to climb one step of the ladder so that someday we might reach the first floor. We can't solve it in one-shot. We have to take it step by step.

    - Govt stops running businesses.

    Electricity supply is a business. Water Supply is a business. Railways is a business. Govt should only be regulators and not businesspeople. When companies take over a business, they think about profits and quality of services. When govt run businesses their first priority is not 'profit'. Hence their quality of services are poor. We can join the lobby groups who are advocating for privatization of utility services. Remember, when you lobby for around 10-15 years, then's when you can see the results. So the sooner we start, the better.

    - Performance related bonuses.

    I'm not sure whether this is a current practice hence I'm not definitive on this one. But we should have performance related bonuses for all Govt depts. So, if a cop catches 30 riders without a license in a year and another catches 300, the other one deserves recognition and a monetary bonus. Just giving him a shawl and felicitating him isn't enough.

    Please throw in some more. I am sure everybody has some. However, before writing them down pls ensure that they are 'practical'.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by harshalx
    Alright,

    I'm not going to go further into the rhetoric that wiseman's advocating. Lets get back to the main problem and discuss as to how will we clean the political system to that it does what its supposed to do, take care of its people!

    Can somebody throw off some practical sustainable ideas?

    Here are some of mine:

    - The miniscule movements like PPI (Professionals Party of India) need to be supported by folks like us. We need to start being active members of the Party. At the end of the day, we need a force that can stand up to the biggies and that force will build one step at a time.

    - The change is going to come from within the Govt. We cannot stay out of the Govt and say that 'clean it up'. So how can we motivate the people to consider Govt positions? How can we motivate ourselves to take up Govt positions?

    - Corruption needs to be legalized to some extent. All Govt services need to have a 'Regular fee' and a 'Premium Fee' and 'tips'. Pls Don't misunderstand this (especially for people like wiseman).

    For e.g. If I need a passport within a day, rather than paying the agent Rs 5000 the officials in the Govt get the cut directly. In fact raising the premium processing fees to even 10000 is alright so that the benefit goes to everybody. However, checks need to be in place and working, so that the Rs 10k is not 'under-tabled' to 15k or 20k.

    This is not a solution to the problem, but is just a practical, workable technique to climb one step of the ladder so that someday we might reach the first floor. We can't solve it in one-shot. We have to take it step by step.

    - Govt stops running businesses.

    Electricity supply is a business. Water Supply is a business. Railways is a business. Govt should only be regulators and not businesspeople. When companies take over a business, they think about profits and quality of services. When govt run businesses their first priority is not 'profit'. Hence their quality of services are poor. We can join the lobby groups who are advocating for privatization of utility services. Remember, when you lobby for around 10-15 years, then's when you can see the results. So the sooner we start, the better.

    - Performance related bonuses.

    I'm not sure whether this is a current practice hence I'm not definitive on this one. But we should have performance related bonuses for all Govt depts. So, if a cop catches 30 riders without a license in a year and another catches 300, the other one deserves recognition and a monetary bonus. Just giving him a shawl and felicitating him isn't enough.

    Please throw in some more. I am sure everybody has some. However, before writing them down pls ensure that they are 'practical'.


    What about the masses - forget about top 1% people of India who have 90% of the total money . Average common man - can he afford to pay premium for everything , even for basic needs like water , electricity , health care etc. Need a system where basic needs are satisfied irrespective of person's financial or social status . Cant advocate corruption to be made legal .
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  • A thought

    The Aadhar UID project has been launched at Tembhali(or pembhali?) village in MH.

    http://www.indianexpress.com/news/aadhar-takes-off-pm-sonia-launch-uid-in-tribal-village/689953/

    Just reading this news, I came to know that this village is where many projects of UPA govt are launched in past, including election campaign of Indira Ghendy etc and it has elected one congress MP for nine times.
    I thought what a blessed small village, first citizens to get UID. And a launch pad of some important national projects,
    Until I read this.......
    "There are 273 families in Pembhli, among which 263 are below the poverty line."
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