Hereby I will prove how the realty boomers arguments are false.

What are the boomers arguments?

1.) Buy today, houses always increase in value in the long run.
WRONG. House prices cannot increase more than incomes in the long run. This is obvious if you think about it. If house prices go up more than people can afford to pay, buying stops, like it has stopped now.
Even Warren Buffett have pointed out that houses don't increase in intrinsic value. Unless there's a bubble or a crash, house prices simply reflect current salaries and interest rates. If a house is 100 years old, it's value in sheltering you is exactly the same as it was 100 years ago. Then came the maintenance as the house didn't renovate itself. It also has taxes, and insurance - costs that always increase and never go away. The price of the house went up about as much as salaries went up.
To put this is simple perspective, vegetable were costing Rs.5-6/kg when 5 digit salary was a rarity.
Today, the prices have gone up by about 4 times but so have the salaries. So, sounds very much like the reasoning people use now when they talk about how much their father's house appreciated "in the long run" without considering that salaries rose a proportional amount.

2.) Renting is just wastage of money.
WRONG. As said before renting is now much cheaper per month than owning. If you don't rent, you either:

* Have a mortgage, in which case you are throwing away money on interest, tax, insurance, maintenance, costs that increase forever.
* Own outright, in which case you are throwing away the extra income you could get by converting your house to cash, investing in bonds, and renting a similar place to live for much less money. This extra income is sufficient for emergency expenses,retirement etc.

Either way, owners lose much more money every month than renters and that's assuming prices don't correct to very high level & everything is smooth in the economy.

3.) As a renter, you won't have any money left as you will spend them on vacations,cars & hence won't have equity/savings etc.
WRONG. Equity is just money. Renters are actually in a better position to build equity/savings through investing in anything but housing. Renters can get rich much faster than owners, just by investing in conservative stocks & bonds.

* Owners are losing every month by paying much more for interest than they would pay for rent. The tax deduction does not come close to making owing competitive with renting.
* Owners must pay taxes simply to own a house. That is not true of stocks, bonds, or any other asset that can build equity/savings. Only houses are such a guaranteed drain on cash.
* Owners must insure a house, but not most other investments.
* Owners must pay to repair a house, but not a stock or a bond.
* Owners lose their money as house prices reduce. The EMI's remain constant in spite of reduction in rates. At the end of loan tenure, they would have paid almost twice than that of current renters who will buy at logical rates. Keep interest rates in mind. Most of the EMI is not principal amount but interest.

4.) There are great tax advantages to owning a house.
WRONG. Many people believe you can just reduce your income tax by the amount you pay in interest, but they are wrong. Buyers may not deduct interest from income tax; they deduct interest from taxable income. And even then, the tax advantage is not significant compared to the large monthly loss from owning.

If you don't own a house but want to live in one, your choice is to rent a house or rent money to buy a house. To rent money is to take out a loan. A mortgage is a money-rental agreement. House renters take no risk at all, but money-renting owners take on the huge risk of falling house prices, as well as all the costs of repairs, insurance, property taxes, etc.

5.) RE is based on local factors, it's not a national phenomenon. RE of Delhi-NCR,Bangalore & rest of the cities has nothing to do with Pune RE.
WRONG. Lending rates remain the same throughout the country. ALL loans are harder to get. This will drive prices down everywhere.

6.) A rental house provides good income. So, you can rent if you have purchased as investment.
WRONG. Rental houses provide very poor income in hyped areas and certainly cannot cover mortgage payments. Remember there is almost 300% difference between EMIs & rent for the same house.

It's pointless to do the work of being a landlord if you can make more money with no risk, no work, and no state income tax by investing in assured good returns bond.

7.) If owning is a loss in monthly cash flow, but appreciation will make up for it.
WRONG. Appreciation is negative. Prices are going down. It only adds to the injury of already high EMI's.

8.) As soon as prices drop a little, the number of buyers on the sidelines willing to jump back in increases.
WRONG. There are very few buyers left, and those who do want to buy will be limited by increasing difficulty of borrowing now that many house owners are near bankrupt as they don't save anything at the end of the month due to high EMI's.
No one has to buy, but there will be more and more people who have no choice but to sell as their payments rise. That will keep driving prices downward for a long time.

9.) House prices never fall atleast in Pune.
WRONG. If you see the RE scenario of 1996, prices crashed by 50% & took a whole 7+ years to recover.
Exact 1996 scenario may not be there today but strong correction is inevitable across the city.

10.) House prices don't fall to zero like stock prices, so it's safer to invest in real estate.
WRONG. House prices won't be zero, but the equity or the principal amount you paid can be zero or even negative. What you will pay as EMIs later in actual terms is not for the principal amount but only the interest as house prices dip. So, you will be only serving the bank.

11.) Prices will soften gradually, won't crash immediately.
WRONG. Prices are falling off a cliff. No one knows exactly what will happen, but it looks like prices will continue to fall for long time. These are just more manipulation of buyer emotions, to get them to buy even while prices are falling.

12.) The bubble prices were driven by supply and demand alone.
WRONG. Prices were driven by low interest rates and risky loans & good returns for investors in initial phases of boom in 2004-05.
Prices went up, interest rates went up & buyers savings went down. So prices are violating the most basic assumptions about supply and demand.

13.) There is lack of land.
WRONG. Ample of land is available & continue to be even in future in Pune. Sales volume are down. Even in Japan (small country with less land), prices went down. Current prices here are the same as that of 23 years ago. If we really had a housing shortage, there would not be so many vacant rentals.

14.) If you don't own, you'll live in a cheap neighborhood later.
WRONG. For the any given monthly payment, you can rent a much better house than you can buy. Renters live better, not worse. There are downsides to renting, such as being told to move at the end of your lease, or having your rent raised, but since there are thousands of vacant rentals, you can take your pick and be quite happy renting during the crash. There are similar but worse problems for owners anyway, such as being fired and losing your house, or having your interest rate and property taxes adjust upward. Remember, property taxes are forever.

15.) There's always someone predicting a real estate crash.
TRUE, yet irrelevant. There are very real crashes every decade or so. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

16.) Local incomes justify the high prices.
WRONG. The mortgage should be more than your 3 years earning. It is much higher today. Most are already in danger/red zone.

17.) You have to live somewhere.
CORRECT. But that doesn't mean you should waste your life savings on a bad investment. You can live in a better house for much less money by renting during the down slide in RE.

18.) It's not a house, it's a home.
WRONG. Wherever one lives in it is home, be it apartment, condo, bungalow , mansion or house. Calling a house a "home" is a manipulation of your emotions for profit.

19.) If you don't buy now, you'll never get another chance.
WRONG. History proves otherwise.
Here's a beautiful quote from a analyst:-
"The real issue isn't whether you will be stuck being a renter all your life, she says. Its whether you'll get so scared about being shut out that you'll buy at the market's peak and be stuck in a property you can't afford or sell."

20.) It would take major economic recession or a major earthquake that wipes out this area in order for the price to fall by over 50%.
WRONG. Even today, if the prices fall by 50%, there will still be very few people who can buy at this levels due to uncertainty in jobs & most importantly high EMIs. Also, look at the rental rates for equivalent houses. Which loss per month is larger? EMI or rent?

contd....
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  • Originally Posted by enduser
    If something can go 4x in 3 to 4 years it can as well come down by that rate.
    To say that 50% or 60% fall is unlikely is another way of enticing fear
    amongst buyers to buy.

    It may or may not go down, but as a buyer I don't care.
    I would buy only when I can afford, otherwise I'll look somewhere else.

    After all Pune is not the only so called civilized world!

    Also, why Builders always are back after how much people earn?
    Why can't they sell their product on actual costs and some decent profit margins?

    Why they expect people to become EMI slaves for 15 to 20 years just to server their greed?

    Aren't there other non-RE things to cater for with increase in the salary?

    Bang on target. If salary levels have gone up, Scorpio should have been selling at the price of Land Rover coz it were these scorpio chaps who made most money in current RE boom:D. Alongwith this, the rate/min for cell phon.e should have been atleast INR 20-25/min!!

    C'mon man be realistic, even Mercedes-Benz, Rolls Royce don't hike their prices like this even when their clients are super-rich . Hope you got the point.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by rsatitkar

    I have seen senior members advising to stay on rent, save money & spend it on other better things in life (in their opinion) like buying expensive cars, going on expensive trips, gifting expensive things to your wife etc etc. Fine but can't people's priorities be different? Why blame a person who thinks that I would prefer to buy a home (which is affordable to me) rather than spending heavily on expensive cars. gifts & holidays?

    Buying a decent house in Pune is the most expensive gift you can give to your family (mostly by mortgaging in a country with no social security) :D
    Your money goes in the pocket of most unethical, chor-builders.
    You get no assurance/warranty on construction-quality. (Will any builder give undertaking that flat lasts 20 years?).
    CommentQuote
  • If u search on google-whether to buy or rent, u will find 100,000 sites telling u to buy and another 100,000 telling u to rent.
    So what do u do?

    Simple follow these mantras, they have worked for me-
    -Can u afford 30% of total price of house on cash?
    -Are u patient and long term player, minimum 5- years?
    -Can the interest(on your other investments) earned by you take care of 75% of your daily expenses?
    -Most important-Are u happily married and with kids?

    If answer to all the above is YES, then BUY else forget about about it. Please note, even a single NO will mean u need to stay on rent, till the time all the 4 points are YES:)
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by Munish Malhautra

    -Most important-Are u happily married and with kids?


    I am so very tempted to ask you this.... Just that i am in that kind of a mood.

    Is "happily" important over here. Can it just be
    "Are u married and with kids?"

    LOL

    VK
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by veeemkay
    I am so very tempted to ask you this.... Just that i am in that kind of a mood.

    Is "happily" important over here. Can it just be
    "Are u married and with kids?"

    LOL

    VK


    Very important.
    The last point was meant to be like this.
    Btw- The secret of happily married life is still a secret for me:)
    CommentQuote
  • Nice Discussions

    Very interesting discussions from all, liked that. As Aditi pointed out, no one is saying not to buy. Man, even I make site visits, get details of projects, PMC etc. on continuous basis as well, for what?? So that it helps me & other fellow members here to make a decision based on this aspect.

    The finances are in personal domain, what can be a ordinary for one maybe a luxury for another. So, what we say is don't over-leverage yourself based on your financial conditions. I have seen boys of my age (hey, they are boys, not men) where their relatives say that you earn 50k, & XYZ earns 50k, but he owns a flat, not you. So, why don't you buy?? This without understanding the fact that the liabilities may be different for 2, the financial management will be different for 2 etc. Some fall in this pressure, others are called as dumb or failures by the society:o.

    Man, if you remove social stigma associated with owning a house, you will automatically transform to different sphere. You may then start thinking whether this is worth.

    What I fail to understand that people while buying vegetables, look at the veggies closely, bargain for price & make sure that the weight is proper. And here is the same chap who buys a flat just by seeing sample flat, without knowing the quality, by paying lot more than worth & never sure about delivery of the end product. People take 2-3 weeks to finalize a cell pho_ne, but book flat in a week. Now, I am not comparing these with RE, but don't know why people are so least bothered about big ticket purchase rather than reducing Re.1/kg for a potatoes!!

    Last but not the least, what we also emphasize is on INFRA & asking members to stay out from PROPOSED, DP etc. So, even if one is able to buy in crap areas without over-leveraging, is it going to be worth?? What's the use of buying a 25-30L flat with no roads, drunkards around, tanker water etc?

    What is most important atleast for me, is QUALITY OF LIFE. If one can have quality life without owning a flat NOW, it's OK with me. I don't know how will one's true girlfriend, wife, parents or anyone who really cares, will be interested in seeing you go bankrupt. What's the use of parents supporting you emotionally when you go bankrupt? And, I firmly believe that most problems arise due to lack of communication.....if this is set in place, I am 100% sure that the near & dear ones will appreciate your decision of not over-leveraging coz you are doing this just because they too can have a good life:).

    Originally Posted by Munish Malhautra
    Very important.
    The last point was meant to be like this.
    Btw- The secret of happily married life is still a secret for me:)

    As member pointed out, I prefer to be a Brahmachari.
    Munish, I agree with your 4 points as well, & I also appreciate rocknrolls just because he seems a good father:).
    So why get hitched?? It is like driving a car without knowing the controls......either you reach Mahabaleshwar or directly to Haridwar:D.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Frugal,

    I think our maid got it right when she was discussing the debts she was getting into just to be able to afford her kids a decent future. Lst month she had taken a loan to meet some sudden expense and this month she was looking forward to some money to spend for this month. When she realised how little was left after deducting the loan, she was shocked. Her specific statement was ...

    "however much I work, the money never seems to be enough. How much can a person work?"

    And this is from a maid who earns significantly higher than maids generally do in the city and she is only 24! Imagine the plight of the others in worse situation!!!

    This statement hit me very hard. The poorest of people are starting to feel cornered and this is definitely not good for our society! High Inflation is starting to really get to people. And with the kind of open corruption (with the "great" opening of CWG, what do you think will happen to the proposed investigation of the Conman Games money trail?) and the unviable populist spending of our Govt I believe we are on the verge of runaway inflation in the near future and deficits will start getting closer to developed countries levels (think Japan, etc)!

    Agri products along with other commodities will run away in rupee terms. Rupee should get very weak and match other currencies in the race to zero. And with lesser and lesser jobs in the world trying to meet an ever increasing population, jobs coming to India due to wage arbitrage will start going to cheaper destinations (this is already well on its way).

    We will see a peculiar situation of high quoted prices, low deal prices and significant illiquidity in the RE markets with lots of unfulfilled demand along with lots of empty houses. Real Tragedy!

    And with people having large debt on their houses, they will see low real growth in their property value. You are correct. RE is gaining in value but much of that gain is due to debt. Early stages of the bubble that ruined Japan, US and EU now.

    What would you call that? A happy situation?

    btw, Venky. I could'nt believe my eyes when I saw gol.d rise swiftly to $1320 so fast. And the DI is now 78, striking distance to its all-time low of 74.21. Surprisingly oil is also rising fast. Peculiar situation. All of this is telling us that the general feeling worldwide is things are NOT getting better in most places. They are getting worse by the day, especially in the countries that are pumping money into our markets. How long before they listen to Venky and withdraw the funds massively leading to large falls in our markets?

    Still think gol.d/silver best bets for next decade (even in India, even at these prices). Folllowed by trading returns from the high volatility in Stocks. Even dividend funds and bond funds will give irregular and poor returns given the increasingly risky debt situation worldwide. RE will be patchy at best.

    cheers



    Hi Wiseman.

    My fear is the same as yours - people cant afford these food prices. Hell even I cant afford these food prices. Restaurant prices for food is skyrocketing and we are cutting back on eating out - even cheaper restaurants are becoming unaffordable. And our home dlivery of pizzas is also dwindling - as it costs some 700 Rs for the whole family to eat in - and 1000 plus to eat out.

    A relative of mine living in Delhi and earning 25000 per month is unable to make ends meet and is thinking of shifting his family to Kerala. And this after his mother pays for his two children's education.

    Life is becoming tougher and tougher. Something has to give and things have to become more unpleasant.

    Re: gol-d, it is obviously a response to the fed threat (supposedly couched in terms of inducement) of quantitative easing. Gol-d in dollar terms will rise as long as the fed prints money.

    But it is a high risk speculation. Bond yields are only imperfectly under the fed control. Bonds are currently in a bubble. When the bubble bursts, Gol-d will fall flat to the ground.

    So buy dollar g-old only if you are sure of being nible footed and exit well before the bursting of this bubble. It is definitely a good trade but a bad investment, definitely not for 10 years. investments are always a speculation, since it has no underlying yield.

    Rupee g-old if you notice has stood still because of receprocal relation between gol-d-dollar and Rupee-dollar relationship. Local ETF will make money if Rupee depreciates. Not otherwise. The way the fed is behaving, dollar is likely to be weak for at least 6 months, before sufficient economic data comes in for the fed to take a stance one way or another.

    Rupee-g=old is likely to stay static, even with Rupee appreciation. I am suspending further purchases of g-old ETF until there is clarity. I think one can get the same or even less prices between now and march.

    With this much dollar weakness, I am also suspending further stock sales, unless the sense-x seems super bubbly. This much liquidity has to flow somewhere and better to ride the bubble than to stay out. In any case, I have sold some 10% of stock and finished 80% of stock portfolio rebalancing.

    As for RE, I anticipate exactly what you propose - abandoned projects, shortages of flats, unfinished and delayed flats, people's money stuck, poor movement.

    Re: inflation, India's dollar Rupee exchange rate in 2000 was around 45. Today it is still 45. USA has seen some 3% inflation (not precise data)? India probably some 10% inflation over 10 years (again not precise data)? With this difference, Rupee should have been 70 or 80 to the dollar.

    Even last year, USA had zero inflation. India had 15% inflation. Rupee appreciated 5% recently, so actual Rupee appreciation keeping inflation in mond is some 20%. In just a few months or days

    Every country is in a race to depreciate and we are achieving 20% appreciation? This is quite crazy and unsustainable. Obviously something has to give.

    What that something is I dont know. But some catastrophic calamity is looming. Better be prepared for whatever it is.

    My bet is either a sudden catastrophic market fall triggered by some butterfly fluttering, or flight of capital because of the failure of quantitative easing and bursting of the US bond bubble. That will start a chain reaction which can cause

    1. Rupee depreciating to some ridiculously low figure like 100 to the dollar
    2. Balance of payment crisis
    3. Super spike in commodity prices - imagine our oil import, copper import and machinery import bill suddenly doubling. G-old in Rupees will also double
    4. Hyper inflation - how can India sustain a doubling of oil prices?
    5. Corporate crisis as repayment of dollar loans by Indian companies becomes unsustainable. Watch out for Reliance - planning on a dollar loan of 1 billion dollars
    6. Stagflation for a few years.

    Things are bad and I get a feeling of impending doom even as I ride the euphoria of the current bubble.

    However, I get this "doom" feeling for India but do not really see problems in USA.

    Actually I feel that quantitative easing will be successful - the end of which is always marked by a rise of interest rates as the bond bubble deflates. Which spells doom for India. So at the end of the day. USA will get away with it while crucifying us.

    I think Ben Bernanke is excellent at his job. He is using the right tool at the right time to achieve the US self interest.

    Alan Greenspan was terrible at his job - he overstimulated USA after the locally contained dot com bubble - when real economy did not need it - and created the RE super bubble of 2007.

    YV Reddy was excellent at his job. He correctly identified the RE bubble and took appropriate corrective action which was largely responsible for containing the crisis in India.

    Subarao appears clueless. He seems to be under some govt pressure - why I dont know. His juniors are not getting extention, there is talk of setting up a finance ministry super-regulator over and above RBI, there is talk of divesting govt bond auctions away from RBI and then we have this unsterilised injection of liquidity into the Indian market.

    While I dislike conspiracy theories (they are always wrong) I am unable to account for this much policy drift - it is totally dismaying and has to end badly - unless there is some vested interest which is responsible for this chaotic central banking.

    Still at the end of the day, I must conclude on only extra-ordinary ineptitude on the part of RBI in recent days - and the current RBI governor is probably the worst we have ever seen.

    More later as I read the rest of the accumulated postings on this thread.
    CommentQuote
  • Comments in RED

    Originally Posted by realacres
    Very interesting discussions from all, liked that. As Aditi pointed out, no one is saying not to buy. Man, even I make site visits, get details of projects, PMC etc. on continuous basis as well, for what?? So that it helps me & other fellow members here to make a decision based on this aspect.
    Thats a problem, many people take decision based on sentiments, society pressure rather than mind.
    The finances are in personal domain, what can be a ordinary for one maybe a luxury for another. So, what we say is don't over-leverage yourself based on your financial conditions. I have seen boys of my age (hey, they are boys, not men) where their relatives say that you earn 50k, & XYZ earns 50k, but he owns a flat, not you. So, why don't you buy?? This without understanding the fact that the liabilities may be different for 2, the financial management will be different for 2 etc. Some fall in this pressure, others are called as dumb or failures by the society:o.

    I agree to this, but one thing is for sure, whoever takes the plunge(risk) is going to benefit in the long term, what do these builders/investors do, take calculative risk and have become cash-rich cows.We are craving and discussing the whole day whether to buy a 2-bhk or 3-bhk and stay on rent and these guys are making towers.

    Man, if you remove social stigma associated with owning a house, you will automatically transform to different sphere. You may then start thinking whether this is worth.
    Absolutely true, issue is that our society provides 0 social security but 100% social pressure

    What I fail to understand that people while buying vegetables, look at the veggies closely, bargain for price & make sure that the weight is proper. And here is the same chap who buys a flat just by seeing sample flat, without knowing the quality, by paying lot more than worth & never sure about delivery of the end product. People take 2-3 weeks to finalize a cell pho_ne, but book flat in a week. Now, I am not comparing these with RE, but don't know why people are so least bothered about big ticket purchase rather than reducing Re.1/kg for a potatoes!!
    Cant help it, we are known to be penny wise and pound foolish
    Last but not the least, what we also emphasize is on INFRA & asking members to stay out from PROPOSED, DP etc. So, even if one is able to buy in crap areas without over-leveraging, is it going to be worth?? What's the use of buying a 25-30L flat with no roads, drunkards around, tanker water etc?

    What is most important atleast for me, is QUALITY OF LIFE. If one can have quality life without owning a flat NOW, it's OK with me. I don't know how will one's true girlfriend, wife, parents or anyone who really cares, will be interested in seeing you go bankrupt. What's the use of parents supporting you emotionally when you go bankrupt? And, I firmly believe that most problems arise due to lack of communication.....if this is set in place, I am 100% sure that the near & dear ones will appreciate your decision of not over-leveraging coz you are doing this just because they too can have a good life.
    True,We need to know by not buying now what do we gain and by buying now what do we loose? It depends whether someone will go bankrupt or someone will get a great house, i feel that at some point of time a normal man would like to own a house. I have a B-School graduate(topper in economics) cousin of mine working as a merchant banker with a Japanese company in Mumbai literally lived like a hermit/brahmchari/miser for about 30 yrs. I never saw him spend money on anything more than reasonable, forget about luxury. Now he got married his life suddenly transformed, he has been earning a decent salary which he always use to earn due to his qualifications and past academics. After this transformation in his life(dont know how), he has bought a 2-bhk house in Mumbai's hiranadani for 1.5cr, taking a loan of 1.1cr, an EMI of 1 Lac pm. Imagine a guy sound in economics leveraging over-aggressively. Mind you, rental in same society for 2 bhk is 35K:bab (35):

    As member pointed out, I prefer to be a Brahmachari.
    Munish, I agree with your 4 points as well, & I also appreciate rocknrolls just because he seems a good father.
    So why get hitched?? It is like driving a car without knowing the controls......either you reach Mahabaleshwar or directly to Haridwar:D.


    LOL-
    It also tells me another compelling thing, till how long can someone stay on rent with family? Living on rent is okay till for 4-5 years but beyond that, in any situation, it definitely makes sense to buy.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by frugality
    Comparing Builder and Owner nuisances.... Owner wins .!!..

    -Who is known to Be more Notorious ... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -Who misleads you in Aggrement... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -Who eats your money ... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -Who makes you owner of few trucks concrete and Iron etc by paing 50+ Lakhs.. land is never in your name ..you are just owner of concrete... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -Who delays your possession ... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -Who has criminal cases on him... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -If you don't pay he will send Goons... Owner(Retired/Service class) or Builder ?

    -If your job changes the house you can leave easily???Yes builder will arrange the Tenants for you ...


    - Who has better color.... App1e or Orange? Orange
    - Who tastes better... App1e or Orange? Orange
    - Who is cheaper... App1e or Orange? Orange
    - Who is readily available... App1e or Orange? Orange
    - Who has Vitamin C ... App1e or Orange? Orange

    Does that make Orange a better fruit?

    BTW how about buying a resale flat from a retired/service class? ;-)

    Originally Posted by frugality
    Service sector of Metros will change job at least in 5 yrs ??

    -when your city changes will you Move and Pack your Flat too ?
    or before the new job you will take 1 month Break to buy a new flat in new city. (pay 6% SD+ Reg + 2% brokerage 8% )
    Just so the kids can paint the walls ?

    -Address change won't be required in that case when you buy new home in new city ???

    -Or home in Noida and job in Gurgaon .... ask those who travel and their family life.....

    I am not one of those who jump jobs every 2/3 years. Even if I jump there are quite a few IT companies in and around Pune area. So don't think I'll be going to some other city. Do you have statistics to prove that people in service sector (Metros) change jobs every 5 years?

    Originally Posted by frugality
    As Wiseman has said earlier we(our Generation) instead of focusing in our career/Growth focusing more on Retirement needs.

    And what makes you think that all people who buy a house do not focus on their career growth?


    Originally Posted by frugality
    You don't go and buy Train Bogey if you frequently travel.
    You don't buy Courier company bcoz you have hundreds of Courier daily.

    Looks like you rent a full building. good for you. :)

    Originally Posted by frugality
    In Company terms stick to Core Business ...

    Did you google for those 4 ashramas? Anyway would you care to explain me, in company terms, what is your core business as a human being?

    Originally Posted by frugality
    While this RE buying is making half of IT/Service workforce spending 2 Hours on Road bcoz instead of renting closer to Workplace they are choosing to Buy and Be Inflexible.

    I assume you stay in Pune which is not a metro city. But you seem to speak with complete authority about service sector in Metros. Anyway I work for a company that has its office in Pune as well as in Fort, Mumbai. Can you suggest me some good flats available for rent in Fort area?

    Originally Posted by frugality
    IT/Service sector is all about Flexibility ?? is it not ....?

    I am too young to talk about IT/Service sector. But I would like to tell you that don't be under impression that IT is everything. There are so many other professions/services where people are making handsome money. So please give IT a break.

    Originally Posted by frugality
    Buying RE is making them Inflexible.

    Do google Grihasthashram. Life mein settle hona mangta hai...

    Originally Posted by frugality
    apply same to youngsters buying flats ....
    first of all they are not Financially literate....
    They don't understand vices of land deals etc
    They are not comfortable Court/Lawyers etc....

    Who says youngsters are not financially literate. Even if they are not, their parents are. And please we are not discussing land deals. We are discussing buying a flat here.

    Originally Posted by frugality
    So 25 - 30 is not the right age to fall in buying home....
    No where it is said/written so but certain things are like that..... see around in rest of the cities......
    For ease some use CCards why don't carry cash ?

    So 'Teenager' is Over leveraged buyer and 'Car' is Flat bought at inflated prices and 'tough situation' is World economic uncertainty.

    What makes you think a 25-30 yr old wo/man is a teenager?


    Originally Posted by frugality
    Now tell me what is simpler

    Ok now I am clear on this. Ignoring your posts is simpler.
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    However, I get this "doom" feeling for India but do not really see problems in USA.


    Don't worry. that way the world is going to end in 2012. So stop worrying and enjoy remaining moments :D
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  • Originally Posted by realacres
    What is most important atleast for me, is QUALITY OF LIFE. If one can have quality life without owning a flat NOW, it's OK with me. I don't know how will one's true girlfriend, wife, parents or anyone who really cares, will be interested in seeing you go bankrupt. What's the use of parents supporting you emotionally when you go bankrupt? And, I firmly believe that most problems arise due to lack of communication.....if this is set in place, I am 100% sure that the near & dear ones will appreciate your decision of not over-leveraging coz you are doing this just because they too can have a good life :).

    Well when I said listen to your family members, it applies in both the situations. i.e. Listen to your family members when they are in favour of buying or otherwise. I don't think parents would ever advice their kids to over-leverage (given the kind of generation they are). At the same time they would definitely suggest to go ahead with the buying decision, if they see value in the property. And once a collective decision is taken, I am sure the entire family would stand together. Thats what families are made for.

    Originally Posted by realacres
    I also appreciate rocknrolls just because he seems a good father.

    Thanks for your kind words. I would say, just trying to discharge my duties of Grihasthashram. :bab (59):
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  • Builders asking buyers to go bankrupt

    Man, we were discussing on how not to over-leverage while buying anything. Now here is a financial whizkid builder, Balaji Generosia, Baner whose approach road is from highway, a small tiny lane where just 2 goats can pass simultaneously & yes, no PMC water as well. Rates 3700+:D & builder tagline states:-

    Live Beyond Your Means:bab (45):.

    Don't believe, see the ad for yourself below:-
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  • what a name ?!

    The project name sounds like 'Gonorrhea' :((

    Originally Posted by realacres
    Man, we were discussing on how not to over-leverage while buying anything. Now here is a financial whizkid builder, Balaji Generosia, Baner whose approach road is from highway, a small tiny lane where just 2 goats can pass simultaneously & yes, no PMC water as well. Rates 3700+:D & builder tagline states:-

    Live Beyond Your Means:bab (45):.

    Don't believe, see the ad for yourself below:-
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  • Originally Posted by compuwalah
    I would urge people not to buy in Pune. Din't you read the thread "Once you buy in Pune, you are doomed". What else need to be done to scare daylights outta you. If you people decide not to buy then there will be some chance of correction and then I can go and buy some good place for me.

    Don't ppl see what is "really" being conveyed in this forum and still think of buying :D


    Thanks for giving all of us a break from cursing Diwali thread! Poor Diwali thread is cursed so many times, now that thread must be feeling relieved.
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  • Originally Posted by Munish Malhautra
    If u search on google-whether to buy or rent, u will find 100,000 sites telling u to buy and another 100,000 telling u to rent.
    So what do u do?

    Simple follow these mantras, they have worked for me-
    -Can u afford 30% of total price of house on cash?
    -Are u patient and long term player, minimum 5- years?
    -Can the interest(on your other investments) earned by you take care of 75% of your daily expenses?
    -Most important-Are u happily married and with kids?

    If answer to all the above is YES, then BUY else forget about about it. Please note, even a single NO will mean u need to stay on rent, till the time all the 4 points are YES:)



    Agree with you except for 30% of total price, I would follow 50% of the house price. Did not understand point 2 though! we are talking self use right?
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