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- Any idea on salary packages in top (few) product companies present in Pune. I think Symantec is one of the best paying company in Pune. What about salaries in Nvidia, IBM-ISL, Avaya?CommentQuote0Flag
- The issue has to do with numbers. the 25L guy manages bunch of people in the 5L-20L range. This 25L is not a pure manager but technical guy as well. Gone are the days of pure people managers. That is now the directors responsibility. But you are right, jobs will move back to USA as salaries keep rising. Its sometimes cheaper to hire in US now then India for some positions. Symantec pays very good. IBM/Avaya/SAS/IFlex are good too. Persistent has over 6k people now and lots of folks are moving onsite. I expect half of these guys to start buying apartments in the next few yearsCommentQuote0Flag
Not to forget that east europe & small countries like Vietnam will take away jobs from India due to cost advantage. China is also emphasizing a lot on English skills for the same.CommentQuote0Flag
- See the impact of recent hikes by RBI on home loans. Nice vids alongwith text below:-
Loans to get dearer, RBI hikes rates by 25bps | FirstpostCommentQuote0Flag
IBM is not a good pay master.CommentQuote0Flag
- We are already too high!
The industry has no clue OR are completely frivolous when they bandy around terms like 25L people manage other 20L people! (sorry Remesh, you are completely correct about your observation & I'm not piling onto you).
Please note! It used to be a good bet to come to India when salaries here were 1/5th or 20% of US salaries.
Second, the world is getting leaner by the day & this is a longterm, all-Industry, 1-way trend!
Assuming you can get a good mid/senior level IT manager in the US today at 120k (& 25L is 60k), you are talking of only a 1/2 advantage.
Further, taking the fact that US based manpower is generally more productive (simply because their work-ethic forces them to be so), & you need far less manager to manage other (expensive) managers, & its a well-known secret that s/w out of India is generally ill-designed & buggier, you will quickly realise that we in India have built up precisely the kind of top-management-heavy structure that screwed the US in the first place.
These 25L managers are seriously endangered species & will be extinct soon, replaced by people both from cheaper countries as well as the home country (US).
We will revert to being the cheap, low-cost high-people volume, IT factories destination, just as China continues to be so in hardware & manufacturing.
The trend is already on ... The number of tiers of very expensive pure managers managing other expensive managers is declining or moving to destinations where managers only manage revenue-generating workers & not other managers.
- Well we are forgetting one more thing.. A lot of the IT managers were also given ESOP's.. till Chidambaram messed it up with the FBT business..
They sold these shares as no one understood the equity market or any other investment instruments and invested in RE.. So not 100% of these apartments were bought purely on loans....
I guess these people were not so market savvy and I am not sure if anyone liquidated their houses (investment) at the boom time.. If someone did cool.. otherwise .. what can you say.. missed a great chance..
People who bought houses in the boom.. Last quarter 2007 to June 2008.. or from June 2010 to now are the worst off if they had taken huge loans.. because these were the peaks..
People also never understand cycles of markets.. and never quite ready to accept it. What worked for the ITG's 5-6 years back will not work now.. Managers are now much more worse of.. one is really not enhancing one's value as you are neither a subject matter expert nor directly contributing and not really adding value to the organisation or to oneself. If things go south.. then the general management skill is not going to get you a job somewhere.. as you are just an overhead. Hope people realize it..
We are good at labor arbitrage .. only and will never go to the next rung of value arbitrage.. we got 75K $ per annum 5 years back and still get the same sum now for an experienced guy.. meanwhile salaries back home is much much different now compared to what was 5 years back..
People also look at others and say.. oh he bought 2 houses and now they are worth 2 crores.. and I must do the same.. and if I do the same my 2 crore investment is likely to fetch 4 crore similarly..
well God was kind to fools earlier and we cannot expect him to continue.. World is a much different place..CommentQuote0Flag
- Vietnam has no volume advantage to India. Philipines has already taken away a huge chunk of voice business but based the dealings of my friend with Manila, that city is more screwed up then any city in India. However they are very cheap. One of my previous employes moved the helpdesk there from the US instead of India and they are doing good so it looks like will bleed India on the voice front.
In terms of techsupport orgnanizations in India like Dell/Microsoft/Oracle/IBM/HP have matured processes over the past 4-5 years and they are now solidly entrenched to keep the cycle going for the next 3-5 years. After that who knows. In fact banks I see businesses like big banks moving to India for their next phase of development. They will want to cut their 150/200$ per hour contractors down to $50. That is a no brainerCommentQuote0Flag
- Offshore not cheap anymore
In terms of techsupport orgnanizations in India like Dell/Microsoft/Oracle/IBM/HP have matured processes over the past 4-5 years and they are now solidly entrenched to keep the cycle going for the next 3-5 years. After that who knows. In fact banks I see businesses like big banks moving to India for their next phase of development. They will want to cut their 150/200$ per hour contractors down to $50. That is a no brainer
I've seen that India's cost advantage has halved in the past 15 years. In the 1990's, one could replace 1 person in US/Europe with 5-6 in India. Now it's 1:2 or 1:2.5. It is not just the salaries, but real estate costs which are making clients think twice about outsourcing/offshoring on the basis of cost only.
Costs per employee (salary+office lease) between tier 2 cities in UK (eg Bournemouth, Glasgow, Cambridge) are not much higher than Mumbai - say 20-25%.
If we factor in cultural differences, time differences, rate of attrition, etc of offshore personnel, it is only a matter of time when only cost advantage will not move jobs to India.CommentQuote0Flag
- I agree. In Phoenix AZ one can easily hire a tech support engineer for 40-50k however if one needs volumes of tech support engineers you will be better off hiring managers/leads sfor 40/50k and the rest for 15k-25kCommentQuote0Flag
- Good news!!! Today's Bangalore TOI carries an article that correction in RE is inevitable. Though we at IREF already knew that. :bab (6):
When the TOI-let newspaper that always reports about fake price rises, now starts reporting that there is possibility of correction, you can guess where the RE market is headed in next few months. All along they were hoping to cosy up the builder lobby, now when the builder lobby is castigating them for not doing enough, they start reporting such news articles.CommentQuote0Flag
- Originally Posted by amit001GGN has more concentration of these high earning MBA's as compared to Noida because Noida has majorly IT jobs.
This is one of the reason why GGN is high end despite of having a poor infrastructurer
Noida is 10 times better than ggn to stayCommentQuote0Flag
- Interesting discussions and points yo ponder.
ki agree with amit 001 that GGN has a lot of well paid managers. Big reason for the RE upsurge. BPO operations will not generate good income and my impression is that 50% of GGN IT operations are BPO or internet companies like Yatra. Bangalore is a more solid IT city - GGN must be 5% of Bangalore, but is also 5% of Mumbai - management salaries seem to be the highestCommentQuote0Flag
- Originally Posted by mymarjiWhen the TOI-let newspaper that always reports about fake price rises, now starts reporting that there is possibility of correction, you can guess where the RE market is headed in next few months. All along they were hoping to cosy up the builder lobby, now when the builder lobby is castigating them for not doing enough, they start reporting such news articles.
+ 1 :)
When forbidden words like ' slowdown' , ' correction' begin to pop up in TOI or CNBC, surely the RE and stock markets are wobbling on the top of a slide ... u know those giant sildes in children's parks ? !!!!
- Missing link
I'm new to this forum and liked the points raised by all you guys about B-School Grads and ITG salaries etc.
However, in my knowledge, one point we all are missing here (only about Noida and Ggn since i'm not familiar with other locations).
What about those crores of rupees that builders have paid to Haryana and UP Farmers. No-one is talking about where all that money is going.
A part of this money gets invested by farmers on there agricultural stuff (like buying equipments etc.), another part goes to upgradation of there homes (if anyone of u wud've seen there homes 15 yrs back and now, u'll know wht i'm talking about), another part in fulfilling there kids luxuries (scorpios and all). And a major chunk goes back to RE.
Farmers fortunes changed overnight when they encashed there barren (and even agricultural) lands in Gurgaon and Noida from builders/govt.. Since majority of them are not highly educated, the only investment avenues engraved in there minds are - Land and Gold. And BINGO, they bought whole lot of flats/floors/individual properties.
If anyone of you come from that background, (s)he can verify me. This is something i've been told by my frnds who are living in Gurgaon and remain in touch with locals. And to me, it makes sense.CommentQuote0Flag