Hereby I will prove how the realty boomers arguments are false.

What are the boomers arguments?

1.) Buy today, houses always increase in value in the long run.
WRONG. House prices cannot increase more than incomes in the long run. This is obvious if you think about it. If house prices go up more than people can afford to pay, buying stops, like it has stopped now.
Even Warren Buffett have pointed out that houses don't increase in intrinsic value. Unless there's a bubble or a crash, house prices simply reflect current salaries and interest rates. If a house is 100 years old, it's value in sheltering you is exactly the same as it was 100 years ago. Then came the maintenance as the house didn't renovate itself. It also has taxes, and insurance - costs that always increase and never go away. The price of the house went up about as much as salaries went up.
To put this is simple perspective, vegetable were costing Rs.5-6/kg when 5 digit salary was a rarity.
Today, the prices have gone up by about 4 times but so have the salaries. So, sounds very much like the reasoning people use now when they talk about how much their father's house appreciated "in the long run" without considering that salaries rose a proportional amount.

2.) Renting is just wastage of money.
WRONG. As said before renting is now much cheaper per month than owning. If you don't rent, you either:

* Have a mortgage, in which case you are throwing away money on interest, tax, insurance, maintenance, costs that increase forever.
* Own outright, in which case you are throwing away the extra income you could get by converting your house to cash, investing in bonds, and renting a similar place to live for much less money. This extra income is sufficient for emergency expenses,retirement etc.

Either way, owners lose much more money every month than renters and that's assuming prices don't correct to very high level & everything is smooth in the economy.

3.) As a renter, you won't have any money left as you will spend them on vacations,cars & hence won't have equity/savings etc.
WRONG. Equity is just money. Renters are actually in a better position to build equity/savings through investing in anything but housing. Renters can get rich much faster than owners, just by investing in conservative stocks & bonds.

* Owners are losing every month by paying much more for interest than they would pay for rent. The tax deduction does not come close to making owing competitive with renting.
* Owners must pay taxes simply to own a house. That is not true of stocks, bonds, or any other asset that can build equity/savings. Only houses are such a guaranteed drain on cash.
* Owners must insure a house, but not most other investments.
* Owners must pay to repair a house, but not a stock or a bond.
* Owners lose their money as house prices reduce. The EMI's remain constant in spite of reduction in rates. At the end of loan tenure, they would have paid almost twice than that of current renters who will buy at logical rates. Keep interest rates in mind. Most of the EMI is not principal amount but interest.

4.) There are great tax advantages to owning a house.
WRONG. Many people believe you can just reduce your income tax by the amount you pay in interest, but they are wrong. Buyers may not deduct interest from income tax; they deduct interest from taxable income. And even then, the tax advantage is not significant compared to the large monthly loss from owning.

If you don't own a house but want to live in one, your choice is to rent a house or rent money to buy a house. To rent money is to take out a loan. A mortgage is a money-rental agreement. House renters take no risk at all, but money-renting owners take on the huge risk of falling house prices, as well as all the costs of repairs, insurance, property taxes, etc.

5.) RE is based on local factors, it's not a national phenomenon. RE of Delhi-NCR,Bangalore & rest of the cities has nothing to do with Pune RE.
WRONG. Lending rates remain the same throughout the country. ALL loans are harder to get. This will drive prices down everywhere.

6.) A rental house provides good income. So, you can rent if you have purchased as investment.
WRONG. Rental houses provide very poor income in hyped areas and certainly cannot cover mortgage payments. Remember there is almost 300% difference between EMIs & rent for the same house.

It's pointless to do the work of being a landlord if you can make more money with no risk, no work, and no state income tax by investing in assured good returns bond.

7.) If owning is a loss in monthly cash flow, but appreciation will make up for it.
WRONG. Appreciation is negative. Prices are going down. It only adds to the injury of already high EMI's.

8.) As soon as prices drop a little, the number of buyers on the sidelines willing to jump back in increases.
WRONG. There are very few buyers left, and those who do want to buy will be limited by increasing difficulty of borrowing now that many house owners are near bankrupt as they don't save anything at the end of the month due to high EMI's.
No one has to buy, but there will be more and more people who have no choice but to sell as their payments rise. That will keep driving prices downward for a long time.

9.) House prices never fall atleast in Pune.
WRONG. If you see the RE scenario of 1996, prices crashed by 50% & took a whole 7+ years to recover.
Exact 1996 scenario may not be there today but strong correction is inevitable across the city.

10.) House prices don't fall to zero like stock prices, so it's safer to invest in real estate.
WRONG. House prices won't be zero, but the equity or the principal amount you paid can be zero or even negative. What you will pay as EMIs later in actual terms is not for the principal amount but only the interest as house prices dip. So, you will be only serving the bank.

11.) Prices will soften gradually, won't crash immediately.
WRONG. Prices are falling off a cliff. No one knows exactly what will happen, but it looks like prices will continue to fall for long time. These are just more manipulation of buyer emotions, to get them to buy even while prices are falling.

12.) The bubble prices were driven by supply and demand alone.
WRONG. Prices were driven by low interest rates and risky loans & good returns for investors in initial phases of boom in 2004-05.
Prices went up, interest rates went up & buyers savings went down. So prices are violating the most basic assumptions about supply and demand.

13.) There is lack of land.
WRONG. Ample of land is available & continue to be even in future in Pune. Sales volume are down. Even in Japan (small country with less land), prices went down. Current prices here are the same as that of 23 years ago. If we really had a housing shortage, there would not be so many vacant rentals.

14.) If you don't own, you'll live in a cheap neighborhood later.
WRONG. For the any given monthly payment, you can rent a much better house than you can buy. Renters live better, not worse. There are downsides to renting, such as being told to move at the end of your lease, or having your rent raised, but since there are thousands of vacant rentals, you can take your pick and be quite happy renting during the crash. There are similar but worse problems for owners anyway, such as being fired and losing your house, or having your interest rate and property taxes adjust upward. Remember, property taxes are forever.

15.) There's always someone predicting a real estate crash.
TRUE, yet irrelevant. There are very real crashes every decade or so. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

16.) Local incomes justify the high prices.
WRONG. The mortgage should be more than your 3 years earning. It is much higher today. Most are already in danger/red zone.

17.) You have to live somewhere.
CORRECT. But that doesn't mean you should waste your life savings on a bad investment. You can live in a better house for much less money by renting during the down slide in RE.

18.) It's not a house, it's a home.
WRONG. Wherever one lives in it is home, be it apartment, condo, bungalow , mansion or house. Calling a house a "home" is a manipulation of your emotions for profit.

19.) If you don't buy now, you'll never get another chance.
WRONG. History proves otherwise.
Here's a beautiful quote from a analyst:-
"The real issue isn't whether you will be stuck being a renter all your life, she says. Its whether you'll get so scared about being shut out that you'll buy at the market's peak and be stuck in a property you can't afford or sell."

20.) It would take major economic recession or a major earthquake that wipes out this area in order for the price to fall by over 50%.
WRONG. Even today, if the prices fall by 50%, there will still be very few people who can buy at this levels due to uncertainty in jobs & most importantly high EMIs. Also, look at the rental rates for equivalent houses. Which loss per month is larger? EMI or rent?

contd....
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    Seems to me Pune builders really cut corners - these news of balcomies falling, walls crashing always seem to be from Pune for some reason.

    Even the burglary of apt - thieved smash 5 locks to find them empty, smash 6th and loot hous block highlighted in national news a few weeks ago - with pictures - mocking the burglars and lamenting locked up flats - to me pointed out only one thing - how flimsy the front door was - so easy to break in.

    Pune flat quality seems more suspect than rest of the country


    In smaller towns and hamlets of northern India, the concept of housing has not changed that much. Many people buy plots and build aesthetically pleasing and structurally strong houses. Kitchen gardens are quite common, so they are self-sufficient in vegetables. Bartering food items is also common. Personally, I think this type of lifestyle is much better.

    Pune was a nice town to stay in around the 80s -- almost a hill-station. Builders and politicos have totally spoilt it. When I visited about 2 years back, I was shocked to see the unruly traffic & dirty roads and air. Almost all small houses have disappeared and ugly matchbox type buildings block out all the natural elements. And to top it all, its criminally expensive -- everything from daily essentials to property is overpriced.

    Also, I noted that Pune people have a distinct ' attitude' -- brash, unhelpful, rude, lacking basic manners and etiquette. I wonder if Pune folks believe that Pune is a place apart from Earth and they are superior to other beings on the planet ! Definitely not the sort of community I'd like to live in.

    One of my friends suggested checking out some properties and we roamed around Undri and neighbouring areas. Such a breezy area dotted with hillocks -- but again, scarred by ugly buildings of sub-standard construction. I said to myself " Is this the junk that people mortgage their lives for ? ! " Forget about buying such junk, the day I left Pune, I decided that I would not even set foot there agin.

    I met an acquaintence who is also in banking, and he has tried out an experiment. He had some 30 lacs but did not want to buy a flat. So he bought a plot near Sinhgarh fort and constructed a 2-bedroom house with his own funds. In fact, he told me, that whereas he would have had to take a loan over and above his contribution for a " jail-cell" , he now has a spacious house on a 250 sq yard plot with plenty of clean air and sunshine. He commutes about 40 kms everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced. everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced. everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced. everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced. everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by SanjanaSingh
    In smaller towns and hamlets of northern India, the concept of housing has not changed that much. Many people buy plots and build aesthetically pleasing and structurally strong houses. Kitchen gardens are quite common, so they are self-sufficient in vegetables. Bartering food items is also common. Personally, I think this type of lifestyle is much better.

    Pune was a nice town to stay in around the 80s -- almost a hill-station. Builders and politicos have totally spoilt it. When I visited about 2 years back, I was shocked to see the unruly traffic & dirty roads and air. Almost all small houses have disappeared and ugly matchbox type buildings block out all the natural elements. And to top it all, its criminally expensive -- everything from daily essentials to property is overpriced.

    Also, I noted that Pune people have a distinct ' attitude' -- brash, unhelpful, rude, lacking basic manners and etiquette. I wonder if Pune folks believe that Pune is a place apart from Earth and they are superior to other beings on the planet ! Definitely not the sort of community I'd like to live in.

    One of my friends suggested checking out some properties and we roamed around Undri and neighbouring areas. Such a breezy area dotted with hillocks -- but again, scarred by ugly buildings of sub-standard construction. I said to myself " Is this the junk that people mortgage their lives for ? ! " Forget about buying such junk, the day I left Pune, I decided that I would not even set foot there agin.

    I met an acquaintence who is also in banking, and he has tried out an experiment. He had some 30 lacs but did not want to buy a flat. So he bought a plot near Sinhgarh fort and constructed a 2-bedroom house with his own funds. In fact, he told me, that whereas he would have had to take a loan over and above his contribution for a " jail-cell" , he now has a spacious house on a 250 sq yard plot with plenty of clean air and sunshine. He commutes about 40 kms everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.

    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by amit3011
    I wonder if those were thieves or builder's men who knew the owners were not present in India:bab (59):
    Pune RE is not only overpriced,but also low in quality. Hope the NRIs understand this before putting money in RE.


    Actually it was quite funny. Robbers came and tied up the security guard. Then they went to each locked flat and broke open the door - only to find that it was a ghost flat - left empty by the flat owner as an investment.

    People with money are just buying and leaving it empty, sure in their knowledge that the value appreciates more than FD. Why bother with a 2% rental yield? I know in Delhi, Dwarka and Sohna Road are both full of such empty flats.

    Finally, the sixth locked flat actually had residents who were away, and the burglars could loot some valuables.

    At least they didnt rob flats which had people inside, at gunpoint - in NOIDA and Gurgan, that is what robbers do - they attack when people are inside.

    Frightening. To me the value of such a residence is junk - includes all the plotted houses and floors which dont have some semblance of security. Gated apartments are probably safest (despite the example just quoted above, where they just tied up the guard)
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by SanjanaSingh


    Also, I noted that Pune people have a distinct ' attitude' -- brash, unhelpful, rude, lacking basic manners and etiquette. I wonder if Pune folks believe that Pune is a place apart from Earth and they are superior to other beings on the planet ! Definitely not the sort of community I'd like to live in.

    Maybe more people should think on those lines. Building one's own independent house is time-consuming and tedious -- but no pain, no gain. I really think that Pune RE buyers are too much used to having dwelling units served to them on a platter. If you're enslaved to builders, obviously they will take advantage of you. Why not think different ?

    This might sound a bit extreme, but I think Pune is spoilt forever. I'm thinking of returning to India this year, but I'd rather set up home in Chandigarh or Nainital. Even for RE investment, smaller towns offer better prospects than cities like Pune which are over-hyped and overpriced.


    Well..

    I am from Rural Maharashtra..I used to think about Pune people in the same terms. But I have lived in Pune last 1.5 years and my opinion has changed. Many things attributed to Pune people are cultural imports especially from north. Marathi locals are mostly scared of this insane growth and trying to keep a foothold in the crazy surroundings.

    I have traveled in north and in south and I can say that in terms of acceptance of someone from outside of city, pune would rank better than any place in North or South India..

    Btw thanks for deciding not to come to Pune. Pune can definitely do without more people coming in.( See !! now may be you can accuse me of being a haughty Pune local :) !! ).Most of the rural West Maharashtra is depopulating and migrating into Pune and this is going to rival Mumbai in size even if no one from out of state comes in..
    CommentQuote
  • Pune has gone to the dogs. It used to be a gorgeous town till the late 90s also. Post 2006 it has just gone ballistic....it is not that the locals arent benefitting from the massive influx from all parts of the country..it is the locals who are making max hay whilst the sun is shining...all builders are locals, all servicemen are locals....

    I recently enquired about an appartment at Supreme Palacio (or somethign like that) in Baner and was told it is all sold out. When i did not express any thing further, the sales lady told me that if i had the budget (of 2.2 crs for a 2637 sq ft flat), there was one available - an investor re sale. i doubt how many migrants can afford at this cost.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by SanjanaSingh


    Also, I noted that Pune people have a distinct ' attitude' -- brash, unhelpful, rude, lacking basic manners and etiquette. I wonder if Pune folks believe that Pune is a place apart from Earth and they are superior to other beings on the planet ! Definitely not the sort of community I'd like to live in.

    I met an acquaintence who is also in banking, and he has tried out an experiment. He had some 30 lacs but did not want to buy a flat. So he bought a plot near Sinhgarh fort and constructed a 2-bedroom house with his own funds. In fact, he told me, that whereas he would have had to take a loan over and above his contribution for a " jail-cell" , he now has a spacious house on a 250 sq yard plot with plenty of clean air and sunshine. He commutes about 40 kms everyday to office, but feels he has made the correct choice.



    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .

    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .

    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .

    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .

    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .

    Pune is still one of the better places to live in . Most of the areas that you're talking about are villages outside Pune which are now getting included in PMC/PCMC. Its still much better than living in most of the northern part of India , though it has lost its charm in the last decade or so . By the way , experience is that hospitality increases as you move towards southern part of India .
    Everybody wants to build his own house , but today safety , maintenance and socializing factors are better taken care in an apartment society . There are many wealthy people preferring apts for safety reason alone .
    Travelling 40 kms daily from Sinhagad fort area is not possible for everybody and hardly an option for many long years . In the US this will not take more than 30 minutes , here it'll take 1.5 hours one way . 3 hours a day in commute everyday just to have your own villa ? What do you gain if you lose your health in this ? And living so far is how much safe and convenient for all other daily needs for oneself and family ?
    Most Indians living in US for a long time find it extremely hard to adjust on return to India as they get used to the standard of life there . Builders thrive on this NRI mentality of 2-3 people family wanting to live on an acre plot each . These days apts are being named as Colorado , Miami etc just trying to cache in this psyche .
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  • Originally Posted by msp1976
    Well..

    I am from Rural Maharashtra..I used to think about Pune people in the same terms. But I have lived in Pune last 1.5 years and my opinion has changed. Many things attributed to Pune people are cultural imports especially from north. Marathi locals are mostly scared of this insane growth and trying to keep a foothold in the crazy surroundings.

    I have traveled in north and in south and I can say that in terms of acceptance of someone from outside of city, pune would rank better than any place in North or South India..

    Btw thanks for deciding not to come to Pune. Pune can definitely do without more people coming in.( See !! now may be you can accuse me of being a haughty Pune local :) !! ).Most of the rural West Maharashtra is depopulating and migrating into Pune and this is going to rival Mumbai in size even if no one from out of state comes in..


    Partially agree to this post and the one earlier...being a puneite I can say it is difficult to get information from people here , especially if you're trying to search for something . Ask a PMT bus conductor about your stop and all you'll get an empty stare . Found it much better in the south where people are much more helpful and information is easily available .
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  • Originally Posted by Venkytalks
    I would tend to agree with own villa in principle.

    In practice, it is possible only in Tamil Nadu (coimbatore district rest is too hot) and Karnataka around Bangalore. Even Kerala is too hot to live in, though very safe.

    Coimbatore, though it has airport, but flight tickets to Delhi is quite expensive. Leaving only Bangalore as a possibility.

    Goa is another good possibility, though.

    All of these can only be a retirement home or second home - second homes in another city can be quite expensive to maintain and use - flight tickets alone make it not worth while

    Everywhere else, especialy in north india, the issue of security makes it simply impossible. Living on your own plotted development in New Gurgaon or Greater NOIDA (where plot prices are thinkable) - is unthinkable because you will be robbed and worse - policing is non-existent.


    Venky,

    I'm not thinking of GGN or Noida.

    Rather, I've zeroed in on the two towns mentioned in my post. Both these are also close to my parents' / in-laws homes.

    Once I leave the ratrace here in UK, I have other plans when I relocate to India.

    Other suggestions from friends / relatives are : Shimla, Solan, Palampur, Ranikhet. What do you think ?

    I can't adjust in South India. And in the places mentioned above, I will be setting up primary residence, not a second home. I'm sick of big-city life.

    Opinions will be appreciated.
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  • Originally Posted by msp1976
    Well..

    I am from Rural Maharashtra..I used to think about Pune people in the same terms. But I have lived in Pune last 1.5 years and my opinion has changed. Many things attributed to Pune people are cultural imports especially from north. Marathi locals are mostly scared of this insane growth and trying to keep a foothold in the crazy surroundings.

    I have traveled in north and in south and I can say that in terms of acceptance of someone from outside of city, pune would rank better than any place in North or South India..

    Btw thanks for deciding not to come to Pune. Pune can definitely do without more people coming in.( See !! now may be you can accuse me of being a haughty Pune local :) !! ).Most of the rural West Maharashtra is depopulating and migrating into Pune and this is going to rival Mumbai in size even if no one from out of state comes in..


    I'm not pointing a finger at any particular community or targetting Maharashtrian locals. In fact, the society in which my friend stays has majority non-maharashtrian occupancy. I can't express it precisely, but somehow it appears that the attitude is the same -- whether maharashtrians, migrants or locals. Maybe people who come from outside and settle down in Pune absorb the attitude and culture of Pune folks.

    Anyways, not trying to start a debate. Just recording my impressions.

    Actually it is the builders in Pune who should consider such feedback seriously and spend a lot of time reflecting why they're building junk that no-one wants -- ha, and then they wonder why its not selling :bab (45): who should consider such feedback seriously and spend a lot of time reflecting why they're building junk that no-one wants -- ha, and then they wonder why its not selling :bab (45): who should consider such feedback seriously and spend a lot of time reflecting why they're building junk that no-one wants -- ha, and then they wonder why its not selling :bab (45):
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  • Originally Posted by SanjanaSingh
    Venky,

    I'm not thinking of GGN or Noida.

    Rather, I've zeroed in on the two towns mentioned in my post. Both these are also close to my parents' / in-laws homes.

    Once I leave the ratrace here in UK, I have other plans when I relocate to India.

    Other suggestions from friends / relatives are : Shimla, Solan, Palampur, Ranikhet. What do you think ?

    I can't adjust in South India. And in the places mentioned above, I will be setting up primary residence, not a second home. I'm sick of big-city life.

    Opinions will be appreciated.



    Shimla is getting pricey and crowded.Solan is ok but gets cuts off in winters sometime.
    Palampur no idea.
    Ranikhet is good option.Can also try Almora.
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  • Originally Posted by amitgupta00
    Shimla is getting pricey and crowded.Solan is ok but gets cuts off in winters sometime.
    Palampur no idea.
    Ranikhet is good option.Can also try Almora.


    Thanks for the info.

    True, I've also heard Shimla is not such an attractive option.

    Almora is a good suggestion -- I'll try to get some info on it. Its close to Rudraprayag, where we have our ancestral home & relatives.

    I'm trying for a town not too far from Delhi, but with good climate and reasonable quality of life. HP & Uttarakhand are relatively safe, clean, quite good roads and telecom / net connectivity is good even in small towns & villages. The people are courteous and friendly. Also all our friends / relatives are there.

    I'm planning to narrow down the options to 5 or so and then stay in each place for some time before deciding finally. I kind of like the Kumaon region because it resembles the English countryside.
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  • Originally Posted by SanjanaSingh
    Thanks for the info.

    True, I've also heard Shimla is not such an attractive option.

    Almora is a good suggestion -- I'll try to get some info on it. Its close to Rudraprayag, where we have our ancestral home & relatives.

    I'm trying for a town not too far from Delhi, but with good climate and reasonable quality of life. HP & Uttarakhand are relatively safe, clean, quite good roads and telecom / net connectivity is good even in small towns & villages. The people are courteous and friendly. Also all our friends / relatives are there.

    I'm planning to narrow down the options to 5 or so and then stay in each place for some time before deciding finally. I kind of like the Kumaon region because it resembles the English countryside.


    Hillstation most near to delhi is Lansdowne. only 4 hours drive from delhi and 40 km from kotdwar ..nearest railhead.it is a good option however i have not explored it till now.
    However be warned that all this hillside living loses its charm due to acute shortage of water ,electricity and infrastructure.
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  • Thanks sanjana for your thoughts on not owning a house in Pune or for that matter in any city of India...i hope all the people start following you and soon we may see what everyone's yearning for so long (read affordable housing in Pune)...I also thank your views on Pune folks being totally manner-less and hope others get influenced by you and decide not to move into Pune and save it from further natural abuse (not blaming outsiders totally...insiders have also gone mad and greedy)...

    BTW this thread is about thrashing bloodhound pune builders..and discussion here is going way off topic so to bring it back on track I request everyone to stop buying homes for next 6 months to bring down the this ugly builder-politico cartel (like the Chinese force stopped child birth to kerb population growth)


    Renting ROCKS!!!
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  • Originally Posted by amitgupta00
    Hillstation most near to delhi is Lansdowne. only 4 hours drive from delhi and 40 km from kotdwar ..nearest railhead.it is a good option however i have not explored it till now.
    However be warned that all this hillside living loses its charm due to acute shortage of water ,electricity and infrastructure.


    Folks, just one last brief post on this subject. Apologise in advance because its off-topic.

    Amit, since I'm from the pahari regions, I'm aware of the pros and cons of staying in a hill-town. But still Lansdowne is somewhat not upto my parameters. I shortlisted Nainital because its only 300 kms from Delhi and that highway is being expanded to four lanes. As far as I know, there is no water scarcity in Chandigarh, Nainital & Almora. Yes, electricity is erratic -- but not as bad as UP or MP.

    Thanks again for your feedback.
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  • With apologies to Pune-ites for this OT post.

    Sanjana, an end user location would be difficult for a stranger to suggest. But if you want to make a buy with a possible appreciation in mind, you might think of Rudrapur - it has fast trains, a possible new airport i.e Pantnagar upgrade and lots of industry and jobs.

    For me it would be a good place for a second home - since it can form a base in the plains and one can drive to different hill stations with Rudrapur as a base.

    Dehradun is another similar option.

    Living in such far away places is not a good option if you want to have a more active social life or children - for that you need to be in Delhi.

    Chandigarh would be a another less attractive option for that - have a primary residence there and a second one in KAsauli or some other such place an hour or two from CHD. Ireo has a good plot option in Panchkula which you might consider.

    Best of all - have an apartment in Delhi, (or GGN near airport) a nice big villa/farmhouse in Rudrapur/Dehradun/ Panchkula (either near airport of railway station and buy a couple of cottages in places of your choice in the hills - and enjoy life (assuming you dont need to work any more).

    YOur Delhi flat will appreciate most followed by the small town and the hill station wil be least profitable - and quite illiquid. Net net, you will enjoy life - and your residences should give you 12-15% overall appreciation per annum over the next 15-20 years - but in sudden big jumps with prolonged stagnations
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