I have a few suggestions -


1) While going through different threads of the forum, i have often seen one or more members accusing other members of being brokers or hurdling accusations on each other of trying to influence decisions. I would suggest, that whenever, such a situation arises, instead of accusing someone of being an agent/broker etc. , the administrator/forum coordinator needs to be appraised of the situation & let the administrator decide on the intent of the accused. This would help in -

a) creating a much more cordial atmosphere for healthy discussions.
b) A member's comment unnecessarily won't get maligned,
c) stopping the , (sometimes) motivated blame game.

2) Storage limit of the private messages can be increased.

3) Whenever, one intends to add a new thread & starts typing on the Title Field , titles of similar content should be visible to him, so that he does not repeat on a previously existing thread.( not sure how this would be implemented , but I think computer techs., would be able to suggest a better solution to the problem)
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  • Your deleted post immediately led to this post by another member, which is reproduced hereunder ( your post was quoted ) -

    "I too was stuck in front of medanta...really disgusting that these dumbshit guys won't even let ambulances go...

    As for ggn..sir - u can't change the mentality n character of ppl.. and it applies to whole of india...how telangana was created...wat raj thakrey does in maharashtra.:.

    I hope u understand now as to why both Posts ( your post and subsequent Post ) have been deleted . Any Off Topic/Political Post or any post which would lead to such discussions are being deleted .

    U may be making a post with a certain aim and intent and how the post gets interpreted, both are entirely 2 different things .

    I hope u got my point .


    Originally Posted by Durriewala
    MANOJa; I believe your ownership of this thread is absolute. I have also almost never questioned your judgment (at least publicly) on what posts you see fit to be allowed to stay published, and which ones need to be deleted.

    However this time I would like some clarification on what you saw offensive in my post from Saturday evening that you immediately deleted it, just so that I refrain from repeating the same mistake.

    There was no mention of any community, no implication of any government policies or action (or lack thereof), neither was there any rabble rousing intention on my part.

    My post was simply about how one of the most important aspects of real estate, whether as an investment or self use, “Location” in the case of NCR hasn’t really worked out too well in view of the current unrest. Primary implication being, what use are million dollar apartments when something as basic as medical facilities can be held to ransom.

    Not asking to reinstate my post, merely requesting you to point out what was wrong with it.
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  • MANOJa; did the right thing as it would have created another round of heated off topic posts.
    Itna sannata kyon hai bhai :D
    Where have all gone ?
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  • Originally Posted by MANOJa
    Your deleted post immediately led to this post by another member, which is reproduced hereunder ( your post was quoted ) -

    "I too was stuck in front of medanta...really disgusting that these dumbshit guys won't even let ambulances go...

    As for ggn..sir - u can't change the mentality n character of ppl.. and it applies to whole of india...how telangana was created...wat raj thakrey does in maharashtra.:.

    I hope u understand now as to why both Posts ( your post and subsequent Post ) have been deleted . Any Off Topic/Political Post or any post which would lead to such discussions are being deleted .

    U may be making a post with a certain aim and intent and how the post gets interpreted, both are entirely 2 different things .

    I hope u got my point .


    Sir, with all due respect, does this then imply, that, I have to not only to take care of the content of my own post, but am somehow also responsible for the content contained in responses to the same?

    Could all posts be not replied to in a manner which may be deemed inappropriate, resulting in a deletion of not only the reply, but the original post as well?

    How can one be expected to assume responsibility for another person's interpretation of what one writes?

    Is that not how the thread was earlier hijacked by politically sensitive folks replying aggressively to innocuous thoughts and opinions posted here. In fact, could this not be used to force any particular member into silence by other interested parties? All they have to do is post replies with political overtones, even when the original post has none.

    Sir, I am not questioning your judgment here, merely seeking clarification on how one is supposed to write anything at all if there is the ever present possibility of censorship based on replies posted.
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  • Originally Posted by Durriewala
    Sir, with all due respect, does this then imply, that, I have to not only to take care of the content of my own post, but am somehow also responsible for the content contained in responses to the same?

    Could all posts be not replied to in a manner which may be deemed inappropriate, resulting in a deletion of not only the reply, but the original post as well?

    How can one be expected to assume responsibility for another person's interpretation of what one writes?

    Is that not how the thread was earlier hijacked by politically sensitive folks replying aggressively to innocuous thoughts and opinions posted here. In fact, could this not be used to force any particular member into silence by other interested parties? All they have to do is post replies with political overtones, even when the original post has none.

    Sir, I am not questioning your judgment here, merely seeking clarification on how one is supposed to write anything at all if there is the ever present possibility of censorship based on replies posted.


    Not trying to make this another argument, but there is a proverb for this ...

    "Throwing the baby out with the bathwater".

    Perhaps Durrie, the issue is technical. Maybe they cannot delete a reply but have to throw the whole thread (original post + replies) down the kitchen sink.

    Here is a scenario. One post is made in good taste. There are 4-5 replies also in good taste. Then there is a bad reply.

    As per this norm, the bad reply awa original post is deleted. What then happens to the other good replies to the original post? They are orphaned!!! :)

    This is a common Parent-Child relationship issue in databases. If Parent is to be deleted, all Children also to be forcibly deleted.

    Does this mean that, for the sake of one bad apple, the whole barrel is thrown down the chute?! :)

    As you can see MANOJa; the appropriate level of response would be to delete the bad apple and maintain the rest. Deleting the original post (which is deemed "okay" might seem to be a bit heavy handed.

    Leave it to your good judgement! :)

    cheers
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  • My post simply means that if Moderators feel that any Post can invite Off Topic/Political discussions or is at the verge of breaking a rule or could incite trouble, the said post and the responses to it can be deleted by the Moderator on his discretion . What Posts get deleted and why is off course reviewed on a regular basis .

    You are not responsible for how your posts gets interpreted, but Moderators r responsible for Moderation and keeping the thread on track & Mods. actions r solely meant for that .

    We have a database of who has done what/what rules have been broken & by whom and also a database of all deleted posts . So, if an pattern is observed here on who is looking to silence an member by turning an non-toxic post into a flash point, suitable action is being taken . Just to add here, we are in the process of refining this and much more with automation .



    Originally Posted by Durriewala
    Sir, with all due respect, does this then imply, that, I have to not only to take care of the content of my own post, but am somehow also responsible for the content contained in responses to the same?

    Could all posts be not replied to in a manner which may be deemed inappropriate, resulting in a deletion of not only the reply, but the original post as well?

    How can one be expected to assume responsibility for another person's interpretation of what one writes?

    Is that not how the thread was earlier hijacked by politically sensitive folks replying aggressively to innocuous thoughts and opinions posted here. In fact, could this not be used to force any particular member into silence by other interested parties? All they have to do is post replies with political overtones, even when the original post has none.

    Sir, I am not questioning your judgment here, merely seeking clarification on how one is supposed to write anything at all if there is the ever present possibility of censorship based on replies posted.
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  • Originally Posted by sudhashbahu
    Durriewala;

    Of late the moderators have become high-handed. No point arguing.

    A likely outcome is that people will be upset and stop being active on the forum.


    I have replied to the original Post and hope that u r satisfied with it .

    Let me state again, if Moderators feel that any Post can invite Off Topic/Political discussions or is at the verge of breaking a rule or could incite trouble, the said post and the responses to it can be deleted by the Moderator on his discretion .

    I am travelling and if i have missed any issue/post related to this, would post later in the evening .

    Administrator/Moderator Criticism
    Criticism of IREF rules, or Forum Staff implementation of these forum rules is NOT permitted in any publicly viewable area of the forum. Such content WILL BE DELETED without notice. Be respectful of Admins and Moderators even if you disagree with particular decisions. Their time is dedicated voluntarily to keeping IREF Forum a happy place. If you disagree with how the forum is being moderated or administered, please contact the admin on admin(at)indianrealestateforum.com
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  • Originally Posted by tyler_durden
    That was my post..i dont think durrie n i ever got into political discussion...bt even if ths posts were political pls tell us can u keep politics n ppl out of equation if RE is discussed?...why farifabad n ghaziabad dont command high re prices like ggn??

    And if thats the case then lets not discuss anything except RE on this thread... ll try to be a silent observer going fwd


    Sorry MANOJa; but I just have to bring in one more perspective.

    I'd really appreciate it if you don't delete this post!

    In the past we have had some really bad deviations into mudslinging. But I thought that, recently, things have got more reasonable and after a few posts, people fighting normally back off after some cues from other observers that they are wasting everyone else's time.

    There has been really no need to Mod intervention.

    I believe that Mod intervention must be in terms of exception handling, meaning, it should be rare for extreme circumstances.

    Lately, its gone into a pre-emptive mode, somewhat like the US bombing other countries just in case they may become bad in future and start building WMDs.

    It is becoming a micromanaging in place of the older exception handling! And what makes it worse is the pre-emptive nature of deleting on the future threat of bad response, throwing the onus of good behavior on the original poster, while providing the gun to the bad element to threaten the original poster constantly with Big Brother Mod waiting to pull trigger at the slightest opportunity.

    This means that everytime I start typing something I have to keep second-guessing what the Mod is thinking about what I'm writing. There is absolutely no leeway for some slack in opinions being aired and simultaneously there is this subjective thing about shooting first and thinking later.

    There is yet another dangerous thing happening. Me, the normal poster is now held hostage by the foul-mouthed poster simply because he can always post a nasty reply to some innocuous post of mine and you will take both down.

    I'm constantly under the gun and the gun is now in the hands of the guy giving the bad reply. And the Mod has just handed the bad guy this gun!!! Amazing!

    This following is the logical end to this line of thinking and action.

    Instead of constantly living under the gun of irrationality, I will simply switch to doing something more useful and this forum will become completely sterile and posts will become RE listings (since anything involving opinion that does not agree with anyone will be pounced upon, bad-mouthed and then promptly deleted by Mods).

    As long as it took for this forum to become a rich source of diverse and valuable opinion, it will rapidly become a sterile forum in coma! :(

    Let us see.

    cheers
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  • Not related to RE but related to the excessive moderation debate and flame wars....I hope this follows the house rules :)

    The Art of Letting Others Be Right

    I was also never exactly a fan of The Oprah Winfrey Show, but I’ve surely seen several hundred hours of it. For years after it went off the air, I kept remembering a particular insight Oprah shared once. I forget the context, but Oprah was amazed to realize that she didn’t have to answer the phone just because it was ringing.

    It was a significant insight to me too, not because answering the phone is a particularly difficult task, but because it meant there was an invisible freedom there, which I somehow didn’t realize I had. Even if I still answered every call, it felt like a choice. Before that, it had been a kind of a master-slave type relationship, in which some remote person could push some buttons and force my body up onto its feet (perhaps tearing me away from a Star Trek rerun).

    I am slowly grasping another overlooked freedom, which is the freedom to let people be right (or at least feel right) even though I think they’re wrong. When someone tries to tell the world that Crash is a brilliant film, or that evolution is “just a theory”, I forget that I am free to let them continue to think so.
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  • Beautifully articulated. I have felt that way so many times when in this forum people dont let you voice a certain opinion just the way it is. They wish to unnecessarily want to quote and oppose and write counterviews, point by point in an effort to prove their intellectual might without the slightest realisation that different people may have different views. Its OK if they wish to present a counterview to a discussion, that adds so much vibrance, but a lot of posters end up messing it and get personal with the poster and then it becomes a mud slinging match. Sometimes I have fallen prey to such provocations and only after a couple of posts, I realise that let these elements feel happy splitting hair over someone's personal opinion.

    We indeed have the freedom to let others feel they are right.. and it does feel good to be free.
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  • Originally Posted by MANOJa
    We have experimented something similar in a Noida thread about 2 months back ( it was not exactly what u r saying, since that would require changes to the software ) . Fighting between 3 People started at around 12.30 AM, i warned all of them, asked them to cool down, sent them PM's asking them to amend their posts or if they r not allowed to edit their Posts ( due to the editing time limit ), send me PM's with the revised content .

    I logged off after about 40 minutes of waiting for any PM's from these guys & in the meanwhile these guys were going hammers & tongs at each other . When i logged in the morning, i had to spend about 3 hours in reading all the crap and finally 114 Posts were deleted .

    The point i am trying to make is that some members in the heat of the discussions just turn blind and despite all the warnings, just keep on bashing each other, filing 10's of pages with filth and wasting time of all others .

    So, i was again back to square one and trying to work out a method to control all this .

    Let me see what the Tech. team has to say on your post .

    Also, let me add, we r not trying to nuke the good guys . Good guys do sometimes get pricked & their posts deleted when we r trying to mass delete offending Posts and when we r trying pre-empt counter posts on posts which we feel can be exploited or could result in a series of Off Topic Posts .


    The trick to get software changes is not to "ask" the tech guys but to "tell" them to do it.

    NOTHING is impossible in software (I've held this belief since 30 years of software work) and good software guys always surprise themselves wrt that they can achieve in terms of new breakthroughs!

    And this is not so difficult a task. As I see it ...

    - Ability to Tag a post with a warning (2 fields, 1-byte field for tag code, date/time field for timestamp for logging as well as used for subsequent time-based "deletion"). his could be added to "Posts" table or create a separate table "Warnings" which has PostCode, WarningTag, TimeStamp fields.

    - Button for Admin/Mod to "Tag" a Post with Warning

    - Database Trigger code to send PMs to bad poster asa Warning is tagged

    - Background process to sweep Tagged Posts periodically and delete Posts that have run out of time

    - Button for Admin/Mod to UnTag posts that have complied (this automatically "UnWarns tagged posts so that they don't get "swept" by the background process

    Any other bells and whistles you want to add (like Reports on Tagged Posts, By Thread, By Member, By ... whatever

    All this is top of head. Now, if you go to Tech guys with this basic design, they will quietly get the job done! :) Otherwise you might get the run-around (though I think your tech team is great! :)

    Should be possible in a couple of days including testing.

    cheers
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  • Originally Posted by pkgandhi
    MANOJa sir,

    First of all, let me compliment you for doing a great job of controlling the acrimony that was creeping into one of the Noida forum threads yesterday.

    I am curious about your use of the phrase "good guys", through. If there are " good guys", by implication there must be bad guys and girls as well. As a moderator/owner, how do you classify posters into the two categories ?


    By good guys, i mean members ( male or female ) who positively contribute to the forum and generally help around and the bad guys ( again, male or female ) r the one's who look to constantly indulge in childish arguments, get into personal attacks, make repeated Off topic posts, make insulting & rude posts, make racist posts, issue threats to other members/Moderators, indulge in name calling or look to make unnecessary inflammatory posts at the drop of the hat .

    Above reminded me of one of my favorite movies "The Good, the Bad and the Ugly" . So there r more categories of Guys, but then we would be going Off Topic & ruffling too many feathers, so lets forget this......

    ....& thanks for the appreciation . As u would see from the ongoing discussion, our best efforts r not good enough and we r trying to improve .

    https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/guys

    guys---A form of address for a group of male persons or a group of mixed male and female persons.
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  • I am not talking about whether it is possible software wise or not . I know, it is .

    I am more concerned about what kind of results it would fetch and the positives and negatives for the Forum members and what exactly would change/increase/decease in terms of Moderation .



    Originally Posted by wiseman
    The trick to get software changes is not to "ask" the tech guys but to "tell" them to do it.

    NOTHING is impossible in software (I've held this belief since 30 years of software work) and good software guys always surprise themselves wrt that they can achieve in terms of new breakthroughs!

    And this is not so difficult a task. As I see it ...

    - Ability to Tag a post with a warning (2 fields, 1-byte field for tag code, date/time field for timestamp for logging as well as used for subsequent time-based "deletion"). his could be added to "Posts" table or create a separate table "Warnings" which has PostCode, WarningTag, TimeStamp fields.

    - Button for Admin/Mod to "Tag" a Post with Warning

    - Database Trigger code to send PMs to bad poster asa Warning is tagged

    - Background process to sweep Tagged Posts periodically and delete Posts that have run out of time

    - Button for Admin/Mod to UnTag posts that have complied (this automatically "UnWarns tagged posts so that they don't get "swept" by the background process

    Any other bells and whistles you want to add (like Reports on Tagged Posts, By Thread, By Member, By ... whatever

    All this is top of head. Now, if you go to Tech guys with this basic design, they will quietly get the job done! :) Otherwise you might get the run-around (though I think your tech team is great! :)

    Should be possible in a couple of days including testing.

    cheers
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  • Originally Posted by MANOJa
    I am not talking about whether it is possible software wise or not . I know, it is .

    I am more concerned about what kind of results it would fetch and the positives and negatives for the Forum members and what exactly would change/increase/decease in terms of Moderation .


    Sorry. I misunderstood! :)

    Anyway, as I see it ...

    - it will be seen to be more process driven (rather than person driven - as you have seen the previous post on this page
    "IREF,need more Moderators like BlessU,Sayan,cookie,Abhay and more,right know it's one man rule."
    that kind of feeling might perhaps disappear! If that happens it may reclassify you as "Brother" instead of "Big Brother", which might be a positive for you! :D

    -
    For mods one task will be the "Warn" action post your reading the post, which you are doing anywayby way of deleting the post. Will actually REDUCE your workload as you don't have to type out a lengthy reason why you are deleting the post but may just select a "Reason" from a pre-determined, extensible "Reasons" master list (I've just finished coding the "Reasons" part for my software product! :) what a coincidence!!)

    - An extra task will be the "UnWarn" action, but this is a plus as posts can return from the dead after being sanitised. I believe this will be seen as positive by a temporarily bad element :)

    Just my 2c.

    cheers
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  • See members would have all kind of opinions & especially those who have been suspended mutiple times for abusing Moderators, for Off Topic Posts & other offenses, would find fault in whatever a Moderator does . I am least bothered about opinion of such People. I have deleted the said post & If anybody disagrees with how the forum is being moderated or administered, please contact the admin on admin(at)indianrealestateforum.com .

    Yes, we need more of Quality Moderators, but nobody seems to be willing to commit time here . Some of the shortlisted People r willing to be Moderators , but on their own sweet terms . We need 24x7 moderation and not only when these guys have spare time .

    On workload actually decreasing & on practicability of the whole thing, i am not too sure, lets get into the level of actually experimenting & let the Tech. team give us an environment with the amended Software, so that we can work on it and actually see the benefits and the negatives .



    Originally Posted by wiseman
    Sorry. I misunderstood! :)

    Anyway, as I see it ...

    - it will be seen to be more process driven (rather than person driven - as you have seen the previous post on this page
    "IREF,need more Moderators like BlessU,Sayan,cookie,Abhay and more,right know it's one man rule."
    that kind of feeling might perhaps disappear! If that happens it may reclassify you as "Brother" instead of "Big Brother", which might be a positive for you! :D

    -
    For mods one task will be the "Warn" action post your reading the post, which you are doing anywayby way of deleting the post. Will actually REDUCE your workload as you don't have to type out a lengthy reason why you are deleting the post but may just select a "Reason" from a pre-determined, extensible "Reasons" master list (I've just finished coding the "Reasons" part for my software product! :) what a coincidence!!)

    - An extra task will be the "UnWarn" action, but this is a plus as posts can return from the dead after being sanitised. I believe this will be seen as positive by a temporarily bad element :)

    Just my 2c.

    cheers
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  • Originally Posted by MANOJa
    See members would have all kind of opinions & especially those who have been suspended mutiple times for abusing Moderators, for Off Topic Posts & other offenses, would find fault in whatever a Moderator does . I am least bothered about opinion of such People. I have deleted the said post & If anybody disagrees with how the forum is being moderated or administered, please contact the admin on admin(at)indianrealestateforum.com .

    Yes, we need more of Quality Moderators, but nobody seems to be willing to commit time here . Some of the shortlisted People r willing to be Moderators , but on their own sweet terms . We need 24x7 moderation and not only when these guys have spare time .

    On workload actually decreasing & on practicability of the whole thing, i am not too sure, lets get into the level of actually experimenting & let the Tech. team give us an environment with the amended Software, so that we can work on it and actually see the benefits and the negatives .

    MANOJa sir,
    Since the thread has already veered off-topic into suggestions mode, I will add one of my own. I think it would be a good idea to add a "dislike" option, to complement the "like". One can argue it will hurt the feelings of some posters, but I think it will improve the overall quality of the forum by discouraging members from making posts which other members think are of a low quality.
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