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As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

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As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

Last updated: August 29 2014
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  • #11

    #11

    Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

    Originally posted by vaibav123 View Post
    http://www.firstpost.com/politics/up...otes-1649413.h
    See the quality of people who will enter civil services.
    Can India afford to have people who do not speak and understand English?
    Can IFS manage without good English skill or we will carry translators around everywhere.
    We should move with the times and improve education levels and raise standards.
    Instead we are bending backward to appease some sections of aspirants.
    now other sections will also demand local language tests and so on.
    There are plenty of countries out there that are doing really well without English.

    Japan, China, Germany and so many European countries, South Korea etc. all don't give importance to English like we do in India and they are all developed countries. All these countries do have their equivalents of IFS and they have embassies all over world that operate more efficiently than our Indian embassies run by English speaking IFS officers like Devyani Khobragade.

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    • #12

      #12

      Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

      These countries are comparitively small in size and have a common language.
      Hindi is a lovely language but not yet developed in medical sciences,computer field etc.Hindi has a long way to go before it can become modern enough to cope with latest and changing technology
      Hindi is not the common language in Kerala,TN AP Karnataka and NE.
      So there is no comparison with Korea,Japan etc.
      Secondly the ethos of these nation,their work culture is different.
      Here a lobby is at work pushing language as a front for their own purposes and dominance in all fields.Language should be unifying factor not a factor creating differences in a land with multiple languages.
      Strength of india is is its diversity,multiple languages and cultural traditions.let us develop and give space to all equally for our nation to grow and not involve in disputes of this nature,where aspirants to the highest civil service are showing agitational attitude and joining hands with political parties to achieve their petty ends of a job in IAS/IPS etc.

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      • #13

        #13

        Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

        ‘English a hurdle at IIT-B too, 1/10th freshers fail to communicate.
        Tomorrow will demands be made for entrance test in regional languages.
        We need to avoid linguistic battles and work hard towards passing exams by merit and skills.Logical reasoning,analyitical skill tests are essential for selection.
        Let not our standards be diluted to please vote banks.

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        • #14

          #14

          Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

          Originally posted by vaibav123 View Post
          ‘English a hurdle at IIT-B too, 1/10th freshers fail to communicate.
          Tomorrow will demands be made for entrance test in regional languages.
          We need to avoid linguistic battles and work hard towards passing exams by merit and skills.Logical reasoning,analyitical skill tests are essential for selection.
          Let not our standards be diluted to please vote banks.
          I get candidates for job profiles of programmers all the the time who have done engineering degrees or MCA from private engineering colleges in UP, Pune or Southern states.

          Many of these guys are from rural areas where in government schools local language (like Tamil or Hindi) are the medium of instruction. So these guys are at disadvantage because the interview process is inherently biased in favor of people have good communication skills i.e. spoken English.

          I studied in a private school till 10th grade and further studies were done in a government school because I couldn't afford to continue in the private school. I have seen and experienced the gap that exists between the communication skills (basically English grammar and pronunciation) of those who went to private schools as well as those who went to government schools.

          There are so many great coders who don't get jobs with good companies just because they don't have great english conversation skills or they speak english with say local accent (known as mother tongue influence). It doesn't mean they are no good. They are in fact good and many of them are my employees and making me good money. Their communication skills do improve with time. I believe that everyone should get a fair shot at glory irrespective of the family in which he/she was born.

          When we talk about "standards" then are we saying that a person who went to government school in rural area doesn't deserve to be an IAS officer just because of the accident of birth, i.e. born in wrong family or in a wrong place?

          If that is what you are saying then how are you any different from a Mani Shanker Aiyar who was saying that a chaiwala can never become the PM of our country and he should just setup a tea stall outside the Congress party office?

          Remember the chaiwala never went to private school, couldn't afford to. Never went to top-grade college like Mani Shanker Aiyar did because he couldn't afford to and so the chaiwala can't speak the kind of english that Mani Shanker Aiyar does. Does that mean he doesn't have the "merit" and isn't up to your "standards"?
          Last edited August 7 2014, 12:43 AM.

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          • #15

            #15

            Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

            News Flicks
            ThePunjabi,Sreedevis message is nice.
            If you take pains,you can learn English.
            A student from rural South in Tamil Nadu also learns his basics in tamil,but studies hard enough to learn English.
            Now if you want all things in Hindi alone,then students from Hindi background get unfair advantage.
            I dont claim that people from English speaking background can do better than a rural background student.
            it is all individual ability.
            I am against politicising the the whole show,behaving like street agitationists all for getting a chance to become an IAS officer.
            That is wrong.

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            • #16

              #16

              Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

              "If you take pains,you can learn English."

              As I mentioned in another thread, I started my career 25 years selling cold drinks on the roadside in Delhi. I was 15 years old at that time. So I already know a thing or two about learning English as well as about pain.

              When Kejriwal sits on dharna and creates nuisance on the roads in Delhi with the post of CM of Delhi as his target, you have no problem at all because Kejriwal comes from a decent middle class family like you do, he is also well educated like you are and he speaks the language (English) like you can.

              When a guy from rural India or one who was probably born in a very humble family agitates on the streets to get a system that is not biased against him, he is wrong.

              My problem is why do people born and raised in decent middle families in urban areas have these double standards? Are the kids born in poor families or in rural areas really the children of lesser gods in our democracy?
              Last edited August 7 2014, 11:46 PM.

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              • #17

                #17

                Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

                The Punjabi,
                Please understand that the boys who protest and shout are from particular states.
                A Tamil boy or Keral boy is equally at disadvantage.
                Making tests in Hindi is beneficial only to few states.
                Remember IAS is an All india service and not for people of few states.
                There is no justification for this agitation.
                Coaching institutes may be fueling this agitation and once some epople can see advantage for themselves,they also join the agitation.

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                • #18

                  #18

                  Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

                  CSAT: what the numbers say - The Hindu
                  Following the introduction of the CSAT changes in 2011 is the big spike in the proportion of students taking the essay paper in English.

                  Introduction

                  Given the huge protests against the changes in the UPSC entrance pattern, we thought this week of looking at whether the data bears out some of the protestors' contentions. We're making it clear right here that we are not taking a stand on whether the CSAT is good or bad - for that we'll direct you to The Hindu's extensive news coverage of the issue and the opinion pages.

                  One of the key contentions of those opposing the CSAT is that the new format has made it easier for English-speaking students to make it through, and harder for those more comfortable with Indian languages. In Tamil Nadu and West Bengal, a further bone of contention is that the preliminary examination is in English and Hindi only, and not in the other 20 languages in the Eight Schedule of the Constitution (while the main exam can be taken in any of the 22 languages).

                  The biggest hurdle to answering this question through data is that the UPSC in its annual reports puts out data for the main examination only and not the preliminary examination. So most of data here is going to refer to the main examination only. We're looking at data for two exams - the compulsory Indian language paper and the essay paper which can be written in any language.

                  Language speakers

                  Nearly 12,000 students appeared for the main exam in 2012, the latest year for which data is available. Of these, 11,810 had to take a compulsory Indian language paper (with exceptions for students from some north-eastern states). Using these numbers, we were able to roughly estimate the mother tongues of students appearing for the main exam. Of course, it is possible to take the exam in a language that is not your mother tongue, but that is less common and so this is a near estimate.
                  How has this changed over the last decade, and, more importantly, given the immediate context, since 2010, the last year of the old pattern exam? The proportion of Hindi speakers to the whole has dropped considerably post-2010 and the major gainers include Malayalam and Marathi speakers. It's notable though that the proportion of Hindi speakers appearing for the mains is still considerably higher than the proportion of the general population who said that Hindi was their mother tongue - 41% as of the 2001 Census.

                  Language - mains

                  Now that we have a rough idea of what their native language is, what language are those appearing for the main exam choosing to write their other papers in? (Students have the option of writing the exam in English or one of the Eighth Schedule Indian languages.) This is a complicated picture
                  English and then Hindi have always been the two most popular languages to write the main exam in. However one distinct change following the introduction of the CSAT changes in 2011 is the big spike in the proportion of students taking the essay paper in English.

                  It is true that more students are getting their undergraduate degrees in English and growing more comfortable with the language, but you cannot have an increase of 20 percentage points between one year and the next without some significant change in the profile of students. Those who have been protesting the CSAT have argued that the new format is easier for those from English-speaking backgrounds, and the numbers do seem to indicate that far more English speakers are making it to the mains from the prelim stage than those who are more comfortable with Indian languages.

                  Profile

                  What of the other criticism, that those from engineering and medical backgrounds are now more likely to crack the new type of exam? Yes, there is a change in the profile of those who make it to the mains and those who are finally selected; the proportion of those from engineering and medical backgrounds who make it to the main exam has doubled since 2004 (the furthest back there is comparable data for) and those from such backgrounds who make it to the IAS have gone from a third to nearly two-thirds of all those selected.

                  What hasn't however changed significantly is the caste and gender background of those making it through.
                  Last edited August 10 2014, 11:05 AM.

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                  • #19

                    #19

                    Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

                    Where are the Sanskrit speakers? - The Hindu
                    Tomorrow someone may want papers in Sanskrit also.
                    Unfortunately we have lost knowledge of this beautiful language.

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                    • #20

                      #20

                      Re : As protests escalate, parties jump into fray

                      Noisy protests by MPs go against parliament's rule book - The Economic Times

                      If law makers can violate rule book,no wonder IAS aspirants are learning these techniques very well.

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