India is a Monarchy and only one party acts like that internally as well. The Congress is the only party which has one absolute ruler and all others are bootlicking subjects.

In the past people have given power to the BJP (NDA) as well as the third front.

Both those times, as soon as the parties got power the unravelling started as these parties had multiple power centers which dragged them apart and collapsed them.

Modi is nothing on his own unless he has the support of the jackals of the BJP. When the BJP does come to power, the same drama will be enacted. Pretty soon, with the help of Congress from the sidelines and AK to add to the spectacle, the NDA will unravel and we will be back to square one.

I surely have faith in Indians to behave like this and NEVER change! :)

Though I'd surely like to see that change.

cheers
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  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    India is a Monarchy and only one party acts like that internally as well. The Congress is the only party which has one absolute ruler and all others are bootlicking subjects.

    In the past people have given power to the BJP (NDA) as well as the third front.

    Both those times, as soon as the parties got power the unravelling started as these parties had multiple power centers which dragged them apart and collapsed them.

    Modi is nothing on his own unless he has the support of the jackals of the BJP. When the BJP does come to power, the same drama will be enacted. Pretty soon, with the help of Congress from the sidelines and AK to add to the spectacle, the NDA will unravel and we will be back to square one.

    I surely have faith in Indians to behave like this and NEVER change! :)

    Though I'd surely like to see that change.

    cheers


    Aah Mr. Wiseman, words of gold there. At least someone gets it.

    I guess a lot of youngsters have seen only the corrupt face of Congress and not the devious, tyrannical side, for which Democracy is just a word and staying in power at any cost of paramount importance, the country and it's people be damned.

    To expect them to go quietly into the dark nigh is merely wishful thinking.

    They will be around, further fkking this country up, till some day far, far away in the future, Indian do change and grow a pair, enter their palaces, throw them on the streets and lynch them.
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  • Originally Posted by Vickygs
    If you have read history, in India whenever weak leaders came to power it lead to chaos. Why history, we have a recent example of manmohan. I dont know whats wrong if people believe in someone, he is not offering free electricity, free water or any other freebies. He is only talking about giving people growth opportunities, giving them jobs, bringing better governance. What kejriwal wanted to do belongs to a bolywood flick not reality. You want to become PM without having any experience of politics.


    My dear sir, right now Modi does look like the only alternative. Heck, he seems like the only LEADER out there, across all political parties.

    I hope he does come to power with an absolute majority, if not for anything else but just to avoid being taken down by the Congress, which is rather accomplished at undermining democratically elected governments.

    My concern here is that with the whole country (most of it anyway) looking at Mr. Modi as the lord and the savior, the avatar, who will set everything right, the expectations are running rather heavy.

    A single, strong powerful leader hasn't really worked out for any country, historically speaking.

    So apart from that little concern, I am all for the gentleman, with my "Yes We Can" sign ready.
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  • Originally Posted by Vickygs
    Wiseman, you have lost it. BJP is right now the only alternative, NDA did complete 5 years. If you dont support it thats alright but you have no right to spread lies.


    So Vicky, where exactly did I state a lie? Can you point out that sentence?

    Since everything was an opinion, how could there be a lie?!

    It seems you have lost it!!!

    Don't confuse your assumptions about what I may have stated to be the same as what I said.

    cheers
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  • Comparing the incomparable

    Originally Posted by Vickygs
    Unfortunately or fortunately individuals have played a role, Henry 8 of england or elizabeth or a roosevelt, gandhi, Einstein, Thatcher all these people have shaped our world as it is today. Our future will also be shaped or atleast be affected by some people. It is in times of crisis like these great leaders emerge. It is perhaps in our genes, we always know what is the right thing to do but we need some handholding, someone to give us a vision of a greater tomorrow, someone who is stronger than us. We all give up at times but when we see someone like Modi who is determined and strong willed, we tend to believe that what he says he can do, he can do it. Modi did not get anything easily. He had to fight internally to even get nominated, he survived godhra crisis, he was opposed by strong allies like Nitish, he has Congress and almost every political outfit trying to discredit him. Still he has been smart enough to circumvent all those odds against him. Dont you think we deserve a smart and strong leader like him? Come on guys, if not him then who? Amma and Mulayam? They are better than Manmohan but not Modi, Kejriwal? He will give up before any small obstacle, Mamta? Expect west bengal like hunger and poverty everywhere, prices will fall but incomes will fall faster. What is it about Modi that puts some of you off? Is it his caste?


    Give me a break.

    The leaders in the past that you have listed were educated and knew what they were talking about.

    Modi, in his recent speeches has made many elementary gaffes which a noted accomplished politician would not do.

    While I agree with you that currently BJP is most likely to win, let us not make a superman of what was until recently a not too exceptional politician and CM, who thinks nothing of getting the names of people, places and things all wrong.

    If you can't even do that, where do we start finding exceptional accumen for him to become an extraordinary leader.

    I can understand your desperate desire to build him up into a superman in your mind, but give me a break. Comparing Modi to Tatcher (who, btw was a very astute leader), Gandhi, etc? :D

    cheers
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Give me a break.

    The leaders in the past that you have listed were educated and knew what they were talking about.

    Modi, in his recent speeches has made many elementary gaffes which a noted accomplished politician would not do.

    While I agree with you that currently BJP is most likely to win, let us not make a superman of what was until recently a not too exceptional politician and CM, who thinks nothing of getting the names of people, places and things all wrong.

    If you can't even do that, where do we start finding exceptional accumen for him to become an extraordinary leader.

    I can understand your desperate desire to build him up into a superman in your mind, but give me a break. Comparing Modi to Tatcher (who, btw was a very astute leader), Gandhi, etc? :D

    cheers


    Really, wiseman, you have nothing more than his making some mistakes, his lack of education. Leadership is not something that can be learned in a school and we have seen what a weak leader who is highly educated can and can not do. Leadership is the first thing I would look for in a PM candidate and btw, Modi holds a masters in political science.
    I am not making a hero or a superhuman out of him. I am laying down the facts. The man has grown from a tea stall runner to a PM candidate, and that despite many odds against him. In India, we have a caste and class based mentality (some due to our archaic baggage built to benefit some upper classes and some a left over of british raj). In America, such a 'karamyogi' would have definitely won some hearts.
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  • I do not have very high hope of dramatic progress/change even if Modi becomes prime minister with comfortable majority....central government has little control over execution of most of the areas, they are state subjects and regional power centers are not going to disappear any time soon. Modi may be best among the lot but he has many shortcomings. Gujarat is not India, difference in scale is simply too large and issues of governance are too complex to be handled by present bureaucratic and political setup.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by wiseman
    Give me a break.

    The leaders in the past that you have listed were educated and knew what they were talking about.

    Modi, in his recent speeches has made many elementary gaffes which a noted accomplished politician would not do.

    While I agree with you that currently BJP is most likely to win, let us not make a superman of what was until recently a not too exceptional politician and CM, who thinks nothing of getting the names of people, places and things all wrong.

    If you can't even do that, where do we start finding exceptional accumen for him to become an extraordinary leader.

    I can understand your desperate desire to build him up into a superman in your mind, but give me a break. Comparing Modi to Tatcher (who, btw was a very astute leader), Gandhi, etc? :D

    cheers


    Even his detractors admit that Modi is a formidable public speaker.
    Kindly ignore minor mistakes of omission and highlight any major issues of judgment, if any .
    There are none. simply coz you wont remember a leader from backward caste being loved by middle class & upper castes alike ....
    pl see some episodes of chai pe charcha ...to know a little more abt what he thinks etc...
    CommentQuote
  • this article is from congress press however still a good read on India's next PM (/COLOR]

    Modi in the eye of diaspora: Myths and Realities


    The supporters of BJP's prime ministerial candidate and Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi in the Diaspora are quick to forgive him on many of his transgressions on the reasoning that what he has done for Gujarat in terms of development somehow qualifies him to be the Prime Minister. They seem to believe that he could uplift the middle class, and root out corruption especially in the public arena. However, the question that needs to be answered is whether the rest of India needs a Gujarat Model of development to bring peace and prosperity to its own citizens.

    As I write this, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi is creating news everywhere through his speeches and propaganda, as the BJP’s Prime Ministerial candidate. It has not only created quite an excitement in the Indian electoral scene that is getting ready for the 2014 general election, but also with a core NRI segment around the globe and the USA in particular.

    Modi is running for the most important office in India with some heavy baggage accumulated over the years as the Chief Executive of Gujarat through his divisive rule and autocratic ways. Modi is largely disliked by the Muslim minority in Gujarat, who accuse him of culpability in the communal violence that has killed over a 1000 people and destroyed crores of rupees worth of properties. When Reuters asked him earlier this year if he regretted the killings in 2002, he said, if “someone else is driving a car and we’re sitting behind, even then if a puppy comes under the wheel, will it be painful or not? Of course it is.” He has never ever expressed regret for the gory mayhem of Muslims; much less apologize for the incident. This cavalier attitude by a man who is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the State is deeply troubling to peace loving people everywhere in India. It has been a matter of concern to the civilized world, led by USA that has repeatedly refused Visa to Modi taking cognizance of his human rights violations.

    However, the truth is Gujarat does not figure even among the 10 most developed states. Among the country’s 28 states, Gujarat has been ranked 12th - surpassed even by the hill state Uttarakhand (sixth) – according to the underdevelopment index formulated by a panel under Raghuram Rajan, current Governor of Reserve Bank. The new index is based on averages of ten sub-components — monthly per-capita income, consumption expenditure, education, health, household amenities, poverty rate, female literacy, share of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes in the total population, urbanization rate, financial inclusion, and connectivity. Goa, Kerala and Tamil Nadu led the list of the top 10 among the most developed states according to this report.

    Let us look at some of the Statistics here. In 10 years, 60,000 small-scale industries have been closed down. ( Gujarat ranks 5TH in F.D.I.) The state’s total debt was less than Rs 10,000 crore when the BJP first came to power in Gujarat in 1995. Gujarat’s actual debt has mounted from Rs 45,301 crore in 2001-02 when Modi took over to Rs 1,38,978 crore on December 30, 2012. The debt would mount to Rs 2,07,695 crore as per the state government’s budget estimates by 2015-16.

    Gujarat is at 8th position in agricultural growth. Gujarat never achieved 10% growth in Agriculture sector. As per Government of Gujarat’s own statistics from year 2005-2006 to 2010-2011, growth in GSDP in Agriculture and Allied sector is 3.44% only: not double digit or 10%.

    Close to half of the state’s children under the age of 5 (44.6 %) are known to be suffering from malnutrition. 70 per cent are said to be anemic while 40 per cent are underweight. Health expenditure in Gujarat has fallen from 4.25% in 1990-95 to 0.77% in 2005-2010. Gujarat occupied the second position from the bottom in terms of allocation of health in state budget.

    According to report on Global Hunger (2009), among the major 17 states in India, Gujarat ranks 13th with a Hunger Index of 23.3. The state has been declared as an “alarming state” along with MP, Jharkhand and Bihar.

    Gujarat has 32% poverty in 2001 and it reached 39.5% in 2011. 40 out of 100 people are poor. Statistics of the NSSO show that the percentage of reduction of poverty between 2004 and 2010 was the lowest in Gujarat, at 8.6 per cent.

    Data shows that 67 per cent of rural households in the State ranks 10th in the use of latrines.

    If one independently looks at various human development indices whether it is literacy, education, quality healthcare, consumption, expenditures, infant mortality, gender ratio, minimum wage, underage employment of children, sanitary facilities in public schools, etc., Gujarat has quite a distance to go to catch up with other states. According to Economist and Planning Commission member Abhijit Sen, “If you look at HDI data from Gujarat, you will see a large difference between the levels of development of tribals and non-tribals, and between those of urban and rural people. When the state-level average is worked out, the overall score (of Gujarat) would fall short of those of several other states…The growth rate of the state is good. It has attracted industrial investment and registered agricultural growth. But in HDI like infant mortality, it is on par with Bihar”.

    It then begs the question: why is this myth about the Gujarat model of development is being trumpeted around? In the past several years, it appears that the Modi PR machine has done an effective job passing misinformation for the consumption of the masses. A large segment of the NRI population also bought into the idea that Modi could cure India’s ills by applying the Gujarat formula.

    When it comes to corruption, Modi is generally considered corruption free. However there is an additional myth that he is so tough on corruption that Gujarat faces less of it than other states. This is not an honest assessment. It is mainly the perception of Modi’s admirers outside Gujarat that he has created a corruption-free state. The truth is that the problems most Indians are troubled by are also faced by Gujaratis. One only needs to look at the real estate transactions with regard to taxes or underground smuggling and distribution of alcohol to see the glimpse of what is taking place under the radar. The recently passed Lokyukta bill 2013 even curbs the powers of the Governor and the Chief Justice of the Gujarat Supreme Court! So much for the transparency!

    People in Gujarat continue to report cases of corruption to the Commission that is empowered to look into it. It has been reported that in 2010, the Commission received 7339 complaints regarding corruption which was considerably higher than 2009’s 7093 complaints. Commission observed that out of 7339 complaints, 352 were of serious nature and investigations had been ordered.

    A certain segment of the Diaspora is indeed passionate about defending Modi and supporting him for higher office. However, let that be based on rational arguments with supporting facts, not based on myths and hearsay that may not bode well for us or India in the long run.


    (George Abraham is Chairman of Indian National Overseas Congress (I), USA) this article is from congress press however still a good read on India's next PM (/COLOR]

    Modi in the eye of diaspora: Myths and Realities


    The supporters of BJP's prime ministerial candidate and Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi in the Diaspora are quick to forgive him on many of his transgressions on the reasoning that what he has done for Gujarat in terms of development somehow qualifies him to be the Prime Minister. They seem to believe that he could uplift the middle class, and root out corruption especially in the public arena. However, the question that needs to be answered is whether the rest of India needs a Gujarat Model of development to bring peace and prosperity to its own citizens.

    As I write this, Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi is creating news everywhere through his speeches and propaganda, as the BJP’s Prime Ministerial candidate. It has not only created quite an excitement in the Indian electoral scene that is getting ready for the 2014 general election, but also with a core NRI segment around the globe and the USA in particular.

    Modi is running for the most important office in India with some heavy baggage accumulated over the years as the Chief Executive of Gujarat through his divisive rule and autocratic ways. Modi is largely disliked by the Muslim minority in Gujarat, who accuse him of culpability in the communal violence that has killed over a 1000 people and destroyed crores of rupees worth of properties. When Reuters asked him earlier this year if he regretted the killings in 2002, he said, if “someone else is driving a car and we’re sitting behind, even then if a puppy comes under the wheel, will it be painful or not? Of course it is.” He has never ever expressed regret for the gory mayhem of Muslims; much less apologize for the incident. This cavalier attitude by a man who is the Chief Law Enforcement Officer of the State is deeply troubling to peace loving people everywhere in India. It has been a matter of concern to the civilized world, led by USA that has repeatedly refused Visa to Modi taking cognizance of his human rights violations.

    However, the truth is Gujarat does not figure even among the 10 most developed states. Among the country’s 28 states, Gujarat has been ranked 12th - surpassed even by the hill state Uttarakhand (sixth) – according to the underdevelopment index formulated by a panel under Raghuram Rajan, current Governor of Reserve Bank. The new index is based on averages of ten sub-components — monthly per-capita income, consumption expenditure, education, health, household amenities, poverty rate, female literacy, share of scheduled castes and scheduled tribes in the total population, urbanization rate, financial inclusion, and connectivity. Goa, Kerala and Tamil Nadu led the list of the top 10 among the most developed states according to this report.

    Let us look at some of the Statistics here. In 10 years, 60,000 small-scale industries have been closed down. ( Gujarat ranks 5TH in F.D.I.) The state’s total debt was less than Rs 10,000 crore when the BJP first came to power in Gujarat in 1995. Gujarat’s actual debt has mounted from Rs 45,301 crore in 2001-02 when Modi took over to Rs 1,38,978 crore on December 30, 2012. The debt would mount to Rs 2,07,695 crore as per the state government’s budget estimates by 2015-16.

    Gujarat is at 8th position in agricultural growth. Gujarat never achieved 10% growth in Agriculture sector. As per Government of Gujarat’s own statistics from year 2005-2006 to 2010-2011, growth in GSDP in Agriculture and Allied sector is 3.44% only: not double digit or 10%.

    Close to half of the state’s children under the age of 5 (44.6 %) are known to be suffering from malnutrition. 70 per cent are said to be anemic while 40 per cent are underweight. Health expenditure in Gujarat has fallen from 4.25% in 1990-95 to 0.77% in 2005-2010. Gujarat occupied the second position from the bottom in terms of allocation of health in state budget.

    According to report on Global Hunger (2009), among the major 17 states in India, Gujarat ranks 13th with a Hunger Index of 23.3. The state has been declared as an “alarming state” along with MP, Jharkhand and Bihar.

    Gujarat has 32% poverty in 2001 and it reached 39.5% in 2011. 40 out of 100 people are poor. Statistics of the NSSO show that the percentage of reduction of poverty between 2004 and 2010 was the lowest in Gujarat, at 8.6 per cent.

    Data shows that 67 per cent of rural households in the State ranks 10th in the use of latrines.

    If one independently looks at various human development indices whether it is literacy, education, quality healthcare, consumption, expenditures, infant mortality, gender ratio, minimum wage, underage employment of children, sanitary facilities in public schools, etc., Gujarat has quite a distance to go to catch up with other states. According to Economist and Planning Commission member Abhijit Sen, “If you look at HDI data from Gujarat, you will see a large difference between the levels of development of tribals and non-tribals, and between those of urban and rural people. When the state-level average is worked out, the overall score (of Gujarat) would fall short of those of several other states…The growth rate of the state is good. It has attracted industrial investment and registered agricultural growth. But in HDI like infant mortality, it is on par with Bihar”.

    It then begs the question: why is this myth about the Gujarat model of development is being trumpeted around? In the past several years, it appears that the Modi PR machine has done an effective job passing misinformation for the consumption of the masses. A large segment of the NRI population also bought into the idea that Modi could cure India’s ills by applying the Gujarat formula.

    When it comes to corruption, Modi is generally considered corruption free. However there is an additional myth that he is so tough on corruption that Gujarat faces less of it than other states. This is not an honest assessment. It is mainly the perception of Modi’s admirers outside Gujarat that he has created a corruption-free state. The truth is that the problems most Indians are troubled by are also faced by Gujaratis. One only needs to look at the real estate transactions with regard to taxes or underground smuggling and distribution of alcohol to see the glimpse of what is taking place under the radar. The recently passed Lokyukta bill 2013 even curbs the powers of the Governor and the Chief Justice of the Gujarat Supreme Court! So much for the transparency!

    People in Gujarat continue to report cases of corruption to the Commission that is empowered to look into it. It has been reported that in 2010, the Commission received 7339 complaints regarding corruption which was considerably higher than 2009’s 7093 complaints. Commission observed that out of 7339 complaints, 352 were of serious nature and investigations had been ordered.

    A certain segment of the Diaspora is indeed passionate about defending Modi and supporting him for higher office. However, let that be based on rational arguments with supporting facts, not based on myths and hearsay that may not bode well for us or India in the long run.


    (George Abraham is Chairman of Indian National Overseas Congress (I), USA)
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by neeraj1973
    I do not have very high hope of dramatic progress/change even if Modi becomes prime minister with comfortable majority....central government has little control over execution of most of the areas, they are state subjects and regional power centers are not going to disappear any time soon. Modi may be best among the lot but he has many shortcomings. Gujarat is not India, difference in scale is simply too large and issues of governance are too complex to be handled by present bureaucratic and political setup.


    The issues that you bring up, why have these come up during UPA's rule. UPA itself lacks a central leadership, each ministry has followed it's own agenda, there is very little coordination. The reason is simple, there is very little respect for Manmohan in UPA, he is considered an outsider among politicians.. He lacks the credentials to inspire respect and the only reason he became PM was Sonia wanted someone weak to get the reigns so that he could be manipulated and the Family does not loose control of the Party.

    Tell me which part of the system has UPA not messed up with? Be it army, the courts, the auditors, industry .. look around; UPA netas have feudal mentality, they consider themselves to be rulers, not political leaders.. 2 consecutive terms have filled them with hubris.

    And on the caste issue, if Hinduism has to survive, it has to give up the caste based prejudices.. no other religion has such 'non-competitive' class system where one class enjoys everything. If Hinduism is not reformed of it's class system, what can prevent lower classes from converting.
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  • This is from wiki page on Modi:

    Second term (2002–2007)

    During his second term, Modi's emphasis shifted from Hindutva to the economic development of Gujarat. Modi's decisions curtailed the influence of organizations of the Sangh Parivar such as the Bharatiya Kisan Sangh (BKS) and the Vishva Hindu Parishad (VHP), which had become entrenched in Gujarat after the decline of Ahmedabad's textile industry. Modi dropped Gordhan Zadaphia, an ally of his former Sangh co–worker and VHP state chief Praveen Togadia, from the cabinet ministry. When the BKS launched a farmers' agitation, Modi ordered their eviction from houses provided by the state government. Modi's decision to demolish 200 illegal temples in Gandhinagar deepened the rift with VHP. Various organisations of the Sangh were no longer consulted or apprised of Modi's administrative decisions prior to enactment.
    The changes brought by Modi in the period 2002–2007 has led to Gujarat being called an attractive investment destination. Aditi Phadnis, author of Political Profiles of Cabals & Kings and columnist in the
    Business Standard, writes that "there was sufficient anecdotal evidence pointing to the fact that corruption had gone down significantly in the state... if there was to be any corruption, Modi had to know about it". Modi instituted financial and technology parks in the state. During the 2007 Vibrant Gujarat summit, real estate investment deals worth 6.6 trillion were signed in Gujarat.
    CommentQuote
  • Still more from the same wiki page:

    Personality and image


    Narendra Modi meeting the South Korean ambassador in Gandhinagar.




    Modi is a vegetarian. He is known for leading a frugal lifestyle and has a personal staff of three. He is known to be a workaholic and an introvert. He also writes poems in Gujarati. He is a crowd-puller as a speaker. He wears "business suits to business meetings, instead of homespun tunics. He still lampoons the urban, English-speaking elite, but he is also honing his English skills."
    Modi has been labelled by the media and some articles in peer reviewed journals as a controversial, polarising, and divisive figure.

    British economist
    Jim O'Neill, author of the BRIC report, wrote on his blog that Modi is "good on economics", one of the things that "India desperately needs in a leader". In August 2013, financial analyst Chris Wood, chief strategist of CLSA, wrote in his weekly Greed & Fear that "the Indian stock market's greatest hope is the emergence of Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as the BJP's prime ministerial candidate".
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by toocool
    Aaahhh to get over your inbuilt negativity you must attend attend the classes of bhagoda party............ He with his positive attitude became the cm of Delhi and then ran like an ass.

    If you didn't attend........ Then sorry buddy....... Tumse na ho payega


    I am not for Modi or AK.. But if words bigger than the implied logic itself are used, the argument looses its value. In fact in any argument the person who uses less than respectful words for anyone, is showing that he has been left with no valid argument.

    Probably the argument would have looked decent enough to be read if instead of 'bhagoda' n all simple act of desertion would have been mentioned. That would initiated worth while discussions.

    Personally, I used to support Modi, but lately seeing support for Modi with weird logic has driven me away from him even though there might not be any fault of his.
    AK and Modi both are great players and it would be very interesting if both can be brought face to face and a discussion is held on national television.
    CommentQuote
  • Originally Posted by gaurav000
    I am not for Modi or AK.. But if words bigger than the implied logic itself are used, the argument looses its value. In fact in any argument the person who uses less than respectful words for anyone, is showing that he has been left with no valid argument.

    Probably the argument would have looked decent enough to be read if instead of 'bhagoda' n all simple act of desertion would have been mentioned. That would initiated worth while discussions.

    Personally, I used to support Modi, but lately seeing support for Modi with weird logic has driven me away from him even though there might not be any fault of his.
    AK and Modi both are great players and it would be very interesting if both can be brought face to face and a discussion is held on national television.



    Modi's stature has only grown in last few months .... sans any publicity gimmicks of AAP.

    On the other hand , middle class feel let down by AK post his CM stint. Strongly feel their base will be now Mayawati's vote bank and that is what they are targeting.
    Middle class seems to be deserting them.

    Suggest that u get feedback abt AAP activists from a few public institutions like police stations, hospitals, utilities offices etc .. they land up there and are creating havoc and people are noticing this.
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