Instead of government forcing the state owned banks to reduce home loan interest rates they should have forced builders to reduce the rates or atleast leave the interest rates to the banks. Inflated artificial real estate prices not going to help any economy and that too with poor infrastructure...

Becasue of the boom for last years People borrowed money from banks and gave it to builders. Now salaried people's disposable income has come down affecting every business and the economy.

Daily wages labourers, bank home loan agents should know the pain more than any one who bought the house and cannot pay EMI.

Builders should reduce prices by 40% and go back to 2004 levels and people should start buying houses with in their salary limit atleast for this daily wage workers and to keep the economy moving....
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  • Originally Posted by coolmouli
    Instead of government forcing the state owned banks to reduce home loan interest rates they should have forced builders to reduce the rates or atleast leave the interest rates to the banks. Inflated artificial real estate prices not going to help any economy and that too with poor infrastructure...

    Becasue of the boom for last years People borrowed money from banks and gave it to builders. Now salaried people's disposable income has come down affecting every business and the economy.

    Daily wages labourers, bank home loan agents should know the pain more than any one who bought the house and cannot pay EMI.

    Builders should reduce prices by 40% and go back to 2004 levels and people should start buying houses with in their salary limit atleast for this daily wage workers and to keep the economy moving....

    How about your salary being reduced back to 2004 levels?
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  • Dear friend,

    What a question ? Mind blowing.

    ks2071746
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  • Not one bit KS. If someone wants (read Bears and the ones who missed the Bus) price of RE to fall then their salaries also have to fall. Infact only if their salaries fall will RE fall. That is why I used words like PITCHAKARAN and people feel they are abused.
    U cant become rich unless you are relatively better. So if I make the base salary of a servant maid to 1L p.m. it wont make her any richer. Because the management monkey which balances 1000 worker monkeys will move up simultaneously. So the Manager will get 10Cr salary.
    Now if my maid says her salary should be 1L but RE should go to 2004 levels IS THAT NOT ABSURD?
    PS. Ofcourse some guys like Sethugm and Communists wont agree. U cant reform them!
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  • Yes, ofcourse including the slary levels should go to realistic levels. The growth is all out of speculation and not actual growth. Salary increase has not been realised in standard of living. Also by 2004 level just do not think the mere numbers. The ratio of salary and prices of RE and other commodities. IT and services people salary increased many times affecting the common people. (I am not fool to say that there should not be hike but please be reasonable). Why big companies put so many in bench and literally have no sense of prediction. You cannot predict things, but atleast don't predict foolishly by recuiting 20000 people every year...
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  • Nataraj: just wondering. real estate prices appreciated from 100 to 400% in some metros since 2004. What about salaries?
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  • RE went up 4 to 10 times, salaries went up 3 to 7 times in IT, Broking and similar industries. In other words what people miss out even if salary moves up, if it moves up for all then it is just a hog wash. If it moves up specifically for you then u r growing richer!
    I used to talk about Pudhu Panakkaran aka Pichakaran. If somebody's salary went up 5 times and his boss's salary also 5 times then his disparity with his boss has increased, so he has actually become poorer!
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  • There is a huge difference between 10,000 becoming 40,000 and 10 Lkhs becoming 40 Lkhs....House is a basic need for every one in the country and speculation should not be encouraged.....Also not every one's salary has increased by 400%..but why all RE prices has gone up by 400%???
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    RE went up 4 to 10 times, salaries went up 3 to 7 times in IT, Broking and similar industries. In other words what people miss out even if salary moves up, if it moves up for all then it is just a hog wash. If it moves up specifically for you then u r growing richer!
    I used to talk about Pudhu Panakkaran aka Pichakaran. If somebody's salary went up 5 times and his boss's salary also 5 times then his disparity with his boss has increased, so he has actually become poorer!



    Dear friend,

    In most cases, the salary of the boss goes up more times than his people below. It is more so in IT companies. Take for example, Infosys, the salaries of the top management went up by a whopping 60 to 90% in 2007-08 and they say the increase in 2008-09 was lower & in 2009-10 will be down. They call this as voluntary "salary cut" by the top people. The salary increase of the joining level or 1 to 2 years experience people went up only by 7 to 10 % in 2007-08 and much lower in 2008-09, whereas in 2009-10, the salary is already down with the so called lower varible pay cuts.

    ks2071746
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  • Originally Posted by ks2071746
    Dear friend,

    In most cases, the salary of the boss goes up more times than his people below. It is more so in IT companies. Take for example, Infosys, the salaries of the top management went up by a whopping 60 to 90% in 2007-08 and they say the increase in 2008-09 was lower & in 2009-10 will be down. They call this as voluntary "salary cut" by the top people. The salary increase of the joining level or 1 to 2 years experience people went up only by 7 to 10 % in 2007-08 and much lower in 2008-09, whereas in 2009-10, the salary is already down with the so called lower varible pay cuts.

    ks2071746


    That's true.


    However, one simple question, Will any of Infosys employees leave Infosys and go away and join some smaller IT company? They won't, they will lose all facilities like

      Brand name,
      Marriage market most eligible bachelors and spinsters
      VIP status in Banks for consumer loans, home loans
      Respect among relatives, friends
      Red carpet in car dealerships, real estate builder offices
      Who created this brand name which has today given power to thousands of infosys employees to become the most eligible bachelors in marriage market or VIP customers for Banks, Car dealerships?

      It was the top management. When NRN and other co-founders struggled as a small $1 million company between 1981 and 1998 who will pay for that invaluable initial struggle? When Infosys grew at good speed since 1998 till now, the care with which the top management maintained the firm inspite of the speed of growth, who will pay for this invaluable effort?

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.

      The top management and the earliest employees (who will also be senior positions now) created this Brand Infosys. So now doesn't the Boss deserve if his salary goes up from 20 lacs. to 80 lacs.? He or she has created thousands of jobs for 22 year olds with huge salaries which the bosses themselves might not have got when they started.

      Ofcourse there are bad companies with feudal mindset. But not a Indian role model like Infosys.
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  • Dear friend,

    I did not want to go into the higher salary hikes of top managers whether they deserve or not. It is a fact that at the working levels, the increases were not much and now it is decrease even. In the recent wage hike approved by the Govt. for PSUs, at the Sr. Level, say in the level of Addl. General Manager ( gr. 7 ) the basic pay was Rs. 25700 PM prior to wage hike where as it was Rs. 26,500 for a General Manager ( gr. 8 ) and to become a General Manager after becoming AGM, one will have to wait for minimum of 4 and a maximum of 8 years. See the difference between grades at Sr. levels, hardly Rs. 800 per month? Even in the revised scales,. the difference is small only.
    Some people open their mouth wide when the pay hike news came that the PSU chaps are going to get increase of 60% etc. where as the increase comes once in 10 year period unlike the private sector hikes which are very high every year, of course hire and fire exist here as against job security at the PSUs.

    Believe me, the lower/ below mid level people at Infosys are keeping quiet now due to IT downtrend. There is wide spread discomfort as also fear prevalent now. Once the IT industry trend reverses to uptrend, many will go to smaller or medium or bigger companies at higher salaries. Infosysians at lower and middle levels are the people who will await their chance to prosper better elsewhere on the revival of the IT industry.

    ks2071746
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  • KS,

    You are talking about fathers. grandfathers generation. During 1970s, 1980s government job meant prestige, working in a government job got the same respect like working in Infosys today.

    Have you watched this Sarath Kumar movie "Arasu", in that movie after Vadivelu gets a "Government Job" suddenly the attention and actions he makes. :D

    That was the Nehruvian social ist era when the biggest employer was Government.

    Now since 1990s, after the economic reforms, we are in a open era where private capital is encouraged and private entrepreneurs are not punished if they have excess capital. This is true democracy.

    I can't understand how you took that increment of Rs.800 in 4 years to explain. Nobody in today's generation has patience to work in a government job for Rs.800 increment in 4 years:D:D LOL.

    Now coming back to Infosys,

    Employees of IT leaders like Infosys have taken high increments of 15-20% p.a during the last 4-5 years. When new employees join big companies like Infosys, they directly get 30-50% hike. Currently there is a recession in western economies and that is understandable. When the recovery happens in another 1-2 years like yourself agree, who is in the best position to benefit? India based big IT companies like Infosys


      MNCs like IBM, Accenture are subjected to tough draconian corporate laws in USA which under Obama is a communist country already
      Smaller, midsized IT companies do not have the volume when there will be a sudden spike in demand after slowdown for 1-2 years.
      Big Indian IT companies like Infosys which have volumes and headquartered in capitalist India are best positioned to handle a sudden spike in demand after the slowdown ends.
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  • Originally Posted by coolmouli
    Instead of government forcing the state owned banks to reduce home loan interest rates they should have forced builders to reduce the rates or atleast leave the interest rates to the banks. Inflated artificial real estate prices not going to help any economy and that too with poor infrastructure...

    Becasue of the boom for last years People borrowed money from banks and gave it to builders. Now salaried people's disposable income has come down affecting every business and the economy.

    Daily wages labourers, bank home loan agents should know the pain more than any one who bought the house and cannot pay EMI.

    Builders should reduce prices by 40% and go back to 2004 levels and people should start buying houses with in their salary limit atleast for this daily wage workers and to keep the economy moving....


    I also wish the same and hope the government would take such steps.But, it seems unlikely.

    The financial instituitions and the government thrives by leveraging appreciating assets like RE for economic growth.

    Ever since the 1990 economic reforms and opening of the markets, Its been a deliberate attempt by the government to encourage people to invest all their wealth within a regulated system and extending cheaper loans to various industries and fuel its development.This ensures uniform distribution of wealth and growth to an extent.On the downside, The Banks and Corporates have become more powerful and influential in deciding the countries economy.

    There are very few avenues available today to hold wealth outside the system now, some being Cash(including black money) and Real Estate.

    Allowing IT exemption for housing loan EMI payments is also such an effort to bring the money invested in RE by the salaried class into the system.

    We are all so content having evaded tax whilst putting the hard earned money into a system which is purely capitalist in nature.The profits are distributed only among their investors and not across all strata of people in the country.

    If one chooses not to participate in the system, either as an investor or credit availer, they tend to lose out on the opportunity to grow along with the economy.

    How many of us expect the government do something directly for us?How many of us opt for government job?how many of us want government to allocate a home for us?how many of us get treated at a government hospital?how many of our kids study at government schools?

    We have other alternatives like high paying private jobs,Home loans to buy our dream house, medical insurance to cover expenses at the best private hospital with better healthcare facilities,educational loan without collateral available for studies in best colleges/university.we have life insurance/pension/child plans to support future expenses and retirement.

    The government today is expected to play only a facilitating role, not a provider.

    India has seen more development due to this systematic infusion of capital and availability of easy credit in the past 25 years than anytime in its 60+ years of independance.

    Lets hope that the latest economic slowdown makes the government to take some populist measures and sociallistic reforms to address this imbalance and focus on development of domestic production and consumption like agriculture,power,natural resources,metals,commodities etc.
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  • Silly Q

    Ear...please think before u make the comment!!!!...............BANK , Builders and Govt need to come on a single platfrom to think of the Property at evryones reach!!!
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  • Originally Posted by nabishek
    I also wish the same and hope the government would take such steps.But, it seems unlikely.

    The financial instituitions and the government thrives by leveraging appreciating assets like RE for economic growth.

    Ever since the 1990 economic reforms and opening of the markets, Its been a deliberate attempt by the government to encourage people to invest all their wealth within a regulated system and extending cheaper loans to various industries and fuel its development.This ensures uniform distribution of wealth and growth to an extent.On the downside, The Banks and Corporates have become more powerful and influential in deciding the countries economy.

    There are very few avenues available today to hold wealth outside the system now, some being Cash(including black money) and Real Estate.

    Allowing IT exemption for housing loan EMI payments is also such an effort to bring the money invested in RE by the salaried class into the system.

    We are all so content having evaded tax whilst putting the hard earned money into a system which is purely capitalist in nature.The profits are distributed only among their investors and not across all strata of people in the country.

    If one chooses not to participate in the system, either as an investor or credit availer, they tend to lose out on the opportunity to grow along with the economy.

    How many of us expect the government do something directly for us?How many of us opt for government job?how many of us want government to allocate a home for us?how many of us get treated at a government hospital?how many of our kids study at government schools?

    We have other alternatives like high paying private jobs,Home loans to buy our dream house, medical insurance to cover expenses at the best private hospital with better healthcare facilities,educational loan without collateral available for studies in best colleges/university.we have life insurance/pension/child plans to support future expenses and retirement.

    The government today is expected to play only a facilitating role, not a provider.

    India has seen more development due to this systematic infusion of capital and availability of easy credit in the past 25 years than anytime in its 60+ years of independance.

    Lets hope that the latest economic slowdown makes the government to take some populist measures and sociallistic reforms to address this imbalance and focus on development of domestic production and consumption like agriculture,power,natural resources,metals,commodities etc.

    Even though India has one of the highest saving ratio in the world we are still dependent largely on external capital for growth as most of the investments in India goes in to illiquid RE and gold.

    What is the value addition if money(both black and white) is invested in RE and remain locked for 30-40 years(I am not talking about house bought for personal use).Mostly politicians and middleman gain as they know the knack of tweaking rules and extract maximum profit.Is land in shortage in India?No.we have lot of land but not land fit for living i.e residential land.For converting non-residential land into residential land one needs to get 64 signatures.This redtape is causing the shortage of land and politicians and middleman will not allow this to change so easily.

    See what happened to gold.In 1970s price of gold was around 850 dollar per ounce.Now also the price is around the same level.Why?US under Nixon abolished the gold standard which was existing before 1970s so that price of gold does not increase drastically.So single piece of legislation can change the game dramatically.Price of gold had increased in rupee terms as government allowed rupee to devalue against dollar which is not good for India in long term.

    Same thing can happen for RE also.If any good government in future abolishes the redtape, more land can be made available for development which will make land affordable for new buyers .Investing in RE now is like investing in ponzi scheme or getting trapped in Greater Fool Theory i.e false belief that they would always be able to sell their assets to “bigger fools” at a higher price.
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  • Originally Posted by Natarajg007
    How about your salary being reduced back to 2004 levels?


    Are you implying that the salaries have grown at the same rate as the RE prices? Coming from you, that's an ignorant statement. You are smarter than that, Natz.

    From 2004 to 2007, RE has grown 300 to 400% (if not more). How people do you know who are making 4 times in 2007 compared to what they were making just 3 years back?

    Don't get desperate :)
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